Imagining A Contender in 2013-14

by JumpShootersRUS on Nov 11, 2010 10:45 AM EST

This team sucks and will likely not contend next year even if they get the number one pick.

So clear out veterans who do not need to play or become unhappy to be here because we are losing. Let all of our young guys play, and look to be very good after Jose Calderon's contract expires.

I am neither a Bargs hater nor a lover. I would prefer to see him traded because I think we can only expect him to be a good player down the line, but I am going to assume he stays because I do not see BC trading him. Also, if BC were to deal him, it would probably be for a collection of talents that have not been good enough to turn their current teams into winners. Therefor, I am imaging this with him still on the team in a couple of years. By the time I think the team will be any good, he could provide an instant offense role off the bench. He would be overpaid, but his deal would be nearly done.

I would like to see Calderon dealt for something good or an expiring now, but if he had that kind of value, he would already be dealt. So since he is a good person and character guy, I am not going to continue to beat a dead horse and say that he needs to be traded. Given the amount of money he makes and his defensive issues, he will hold no value until the 2012/13 season starts and he is in the final year of his contract. So keep him around and play him a bit. He is a serviceable back up PG with a good attitude.

Kleiza just got here and will be happy just to play for the time being. He wants to prove himself. If the Raptors get offered something sweet for him, they should obviously trade him, but for the time being, they should keep him. He could be a very serviceable bench player on their team in a couple of years with a deal that is not too expensive and would not have much time left on it.

The same goes for Jarrett Jack, they may be able to get something marginal for him now, but as long as he continues to have a positive attitude, they may as well keep him around. He could be a fine bench player in a couple of years, and a good role model for now.

I want to see Reggie Evans and Barbosa traded for expiring and a pick or picks.

If they can add a pick somehow by trading Banks and or David Anderson without taking back long contracts, then obviously they do it. However, these guys are bad enough and old enough that you can easily just let them expire.

Anderson is never going to hold any value beyond being an expiring that can play if you have an injury or a terrible team. No need to showcase him, no need to play him. You may as well give his time to others, even if they are currently not better than him.

Banks may play better than Calderon or Jack on given nights, but he is not good enough to make this team a winner. If they need to give him a little run near the deadline to see if he can lure a pick in a trade, but for the most part there is no need to play him.

I would love it if Colangelo could land a real talent with the TPE, but he (or any other GM) would most likely just be getting somebody else’s overpaid player(s).

I think a more realistic use for the TPE would be to try to acquire picks with it...If MLSE would allow it (swallow the short term cost), is at the deadline deal the TPE for one or more expiring contracts and a pick/picks.

Road Map

1) Barbosa, Reggie Evans, and David Anderson to the Nuggets for Kenyon Martin and a draft pick???

Barbosa and Evans could play roles on a playoff team this year and would cost Denver almost nothing. If they choose to rebuild next year, Barbosa would only need to get paid for one more year max, as he might even opt out, and Evans is obviously expiring.

2) Waive Kenyon Martin

3) Start playing the kids like crazy (development and a higher draft pick)

4) TPE used at deadline for draft picks plus players with expiring contracts on teams that really need to worry about money.

For example, part of TPE for a player like Marco Jaric and a pick. Jaric gets paid to do nothing for a couple of games, but we get some sort of pick.

5) Draft an impact player this offseason.

6) Not get too ambitious next year either. Only make deals if they are going to help the club in the long run.

7) Get another good draft pick in 2012.

8) Trade Jose Calderon’s expiring contract for a piece that fits in with whatever they have built.

9) Hopefully, be very competitive in 2012-2013 with only one overpaid player.

By then Bargnani is in the 2nd last year of his contract. Although he would probably be a little overpaid, you would find many teams that have worse contracts on their team then a guy who could efficiently score them 15 plus points a night off the bench.

He would make 11 million that year. He would be expiring the next year, thus making him very tradable.

10) The team either finds that Andrea will be worth one more year or trades his 12 million expiring deal for something nice.

11) Have a very solid playoff team, possibly contender in 2013-2014.

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Comments

I like you thinking but don’t forget BC is running the show and this would never happen.
I also am in the minority in that thinking that playing for the lottery is also a bad idea.
We have seen BC’s picks in the past and we are currently living through one of his mistakes (AB)

by PNUTZ on Nov 11, 2010 12:03 PM EST reply actions

I doubt BC continues to exercise patience after the Bosh deal, but I do hope he does.

In terms of style of play, I think BC finally realizes that the team needs to change. Even if he set on keeping Bargnani around, which I am sure he is, he must know . I think BC has woken up to needing a big athletic shot blocker and a better point guard.

Those are the reasons he tried to trade Calderon for Chandler. And he even made some rumblings amongst his babble last year about how “the game is changing and quick scoring guards and athletic bigs are needed”. Whether people like the price/terms of the signing or the draft pick, BC appeared to be trying to get athletic bigs when he signed Amir and drafted Davis.

If BC can remain patient and not add marginal talent at too hefty a price, this team will end up with a very high pick. And if BC does actually realize that his all soft, all offensive minded, all incapable defenisve style will not cut it, he should have a better chance in the upcoming drafts. Who knows, maybe he will even trade down if he does not know who to pick. That’s what he should have done when he got Bargnani. This time around though it looks like there would be an obvious number one pick for him in Harrison Barnes. That could looks like he can play.

by JumpShootersRUS on Nov 11, 2010 12:46 PM EST reply actions

TPE used at deadline for draft picks plus players with expiring contracts on teams that really need to worry about money.

I don’t see how that will work. Teams that are worried about money are not going to trade expiring contracts because that is how they stop paying money in the future. They are more likely to accumulate those contracts than get rid of them. For draft picks, teams might be willing to part with late first round picks because of their guaranteed contracts, but those types of picks usually produce mediocre players and the Raptors have plenty of them already.

The TPE will probably end up being used to acquire a decent player with a really bad contract (2-3 years remaining) or a bad player with a merely bad contract (2 years remaining). Neither is that bad a thing because its going to take a couple of years before the Raptors are even a decent team. By then those contract will become desirable because they are expiring and can be turned into something more worthwhile.

by siggian on Nov 11, 2010 3:36 PM EST reply actions

TPE used at deadline for draft picks plus players with expiring contracts on teams that really need to worry about money – I don’t see how that will work.

You trade a TPE to a team, and they do not pay any money to the player that they had for the rest of the year. The Raptors pay the last couple of months of that guys deal. The other team throws in a draft pick to make it happen.

Teams that are worried about money are not going to trade expiring contracts because that is how they stop paying money in the future.

They would stop paying the player as soon as he swapped for the TPE.

They are more likely to accumulate those contracts than get rid of them.

You are right that they would be likely to try to accumulate expirings, but they would be looking to get of players with long contracts for players with expiring ones. The TPE would be even better, because it expires now.

For draft picks, teams might be willing to part with late first round picks because of their guaranteed contracts, but those types of picks usually produce mediocre players and the Raptors have plenty of them already.

True but I would be happy to see the Raptors have a bunch of late first round picks next year. Take a shot at landing something special, if it does not turn out, those guys get paid next to nothing by NBA standards.

The TPE will probably end up being used to acquire a decent player with a really bad contract (2-3 years remaining) or a bad player with a merely bad contract (2 years remaining).

I agree with this statement completely. It is likely that one of those things happens, but that does not make it smart.

Neither is that bad a thing because its going to take a couple of years before the Raptors are even a decent team. By then those contract will become desirable because they are expiring and can be turned into something more worthwhile.

How valuable do you think the expiring contracts of the expiring player(s) will be? Marginal value at best, I would assume. How valuable are Marcus Banks and Reggie Evans right now with their expiring contracts? How valuable has Eddy Curry and his massive expiring proved to be. The Knicks will probably land something for it, if they are willing to add any long term salary. But do you think it will be a very good player?

Maybe the GM finds a team who is not giving a player enough credit and trades him, but this is unlikely. You could trade the expirings, but you probably have to work pretty hard and get pretty lucky to find something special for them.

by JumpShootersRUS on Nov 11, 2010 8:05 PM EST reply actions

Banks, JJ gone. Peja gives an expiring, Bayless a young PG. Does this significantly change the mix any?

by Gerry71 on Nov 24, 2010 2:50 PM EST reply actions

Bayliss

It answers one of the long-term guard questions: pg or sg, we’ll see. It also gets rid of Banks and Andersen whose only value was in their expiring contracts. It also means we’re going to do better this year so our pick will be lower. But I’m of the opinion that if you can help your team do better now rather than later, do it. If you can add players you think will be able to play well for you for awhile, do it when you get a chance cause you don’t know what a TPE will yield, or a trade later or a pick for that matter. I think Bayliss was a solid addition, and Peja’s first class and will bring the fans out and motivate the players this year.

by khaleeji on Nov 26, 2010 12:42 PM EST reply actions

Bayless...

…I believe he will prove to be a permanent fixture at the backup PG position for us.

And that’s not a bad thing. He is our Jamal Crawford. 6th Man of the year material.

We just need our (and take this with a grain of salt) Mike Bibby.

Maybe we draft a Superstar PG, maybe we trade for one…

Kyrie Irving looks nice, Ricky Rubio would feel comfortable with our international roster…

I hope in the near future we can upgrade Jose for a legit All-Star PG, but even if we don’t it ISN’T a requirement for a Championship team… Derek Fisher anyone?

Think about this:

Ricky Rubio / Jerryd Bayless
Demar Derozan / Harrison Barnes
Sonny Weems / Linus Kleiza / ______________
Ed Davis / Amir Johnson / Joey Dorsey
Andrea Bargnani / _______________

I think we fill in the blanks above with quality guys picked up through Jose / Barbosa / Evans Peja contracts and we are LAUGHING…

Weems has a long leash from me right now, but come All-Star weekend he better be impressing me every night…

Even Demar, who I have HUGE hopes for, better get some results or his deflated ego isn’t going to have a fun recovery…

We are in position for our team to be Conference favourites, not just a scrappy team we can all be proud of…

by Mikthaniel on Nov 28, 2010 10:48 AM EST reply actions

Hey my bad...

Sonny Weems / Linus Kleiza / Julian Wright

Forgot about him since he never gets any time, which is a DAMN shame…

by Mikthaniel on Nov 28, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions

I'm laughing right now

at the thought of Andrea being a starter for a championship team.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Nov 28, 2010 5:15 PM EST up reply actions

I’m laughing right now at the thought of Andrea being a starter for a championship team.

I certainly never suggested that. Here is what I was thinking/am expecting.

9) Hopefully, be very competitive in 2012-2013 with only one overpaid player.

By then Bargnani is in the 2nd last year of his contract. Although he would probably be a little overpaid, you would find many teams that have worse contracts on their team then a guy who could efficiently score them 15 plus points a night off the bench.

He would make 11 million that year. He would be expiring the next year, thus making him very tradable.

10) The team either finds that Andrea will be worth one more year or trades his 12 million expiring deal for something nice.

11) Have a very solid playoff team, possibly contender in 2013-2014.

by JumpShootersRUS on Nov 28, 2010 6:24 PM EST up reply actions

was a reply to Mikthaniel

not your ideas.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Nov 29, 2010 8:04 AM EST up reply actions

I also never said I would expect to win a Championship with Bargs starting C...

So I guess we concur…

by Mikthaniel on Nov 29, 2010 3:11 PM EST up reply actions

re: Draft

Considering the trend of players coming out as underclassman, I worry about how long we have to wait for players to attain the experience necessary to have success in the playoffs. Let’s assume that the average player who is “one and done” breaks out in their third year. That means 2011-12 for DeRozan. Our pick in 2010 ( Ed Davis) breaks out in 2012-2013. And the 2011 pick breaks out in 2013-2014.

So we’ve got a possible contender in 2013-14, aligning with your rough roadmap. This is assuming of course that all the draft picks are hits (top 7 rotation players).

2003 (Bosh) = hit. 2004 (Araujo) = miss
2005 (Charlie V) = hit (Joey Graham) = miss
2006 (Bargnani) = hit
2009 (DeRozan) = N/A 2010 (Ed Davis) = N/A

So we were 3/5 from Bosh to Bargnani, spanning a period from 2003-2004 to 2006-2007, spanning four seasons. One all star PF, and two jump shooting PFs. We did pretty good if the criteria was top 7 rotation player, but that wasn’t enough to keep Bosh was it. I think we’ve got to do what it takes to stack the deck once you get one all-star, so that you can get a second. Then your rolling and you’ve got a fighting chance…at something. Keep running one all start out by himself, and no matter how skilled, they will eventually grow disillusioned and leave at the first opportunity.

Somewhere along the road between here and 2013, we’ve got to consolidate a handful of maybes into one or two certainties. I propose being really aggressive at the draft table, and paying the price (ugly contract) to move up in the 2011 draft. I am glad that we aren’t as awful as the pundits thought we would be. But it does complicate the

Step 1) Get first pick
Step 2) Draft Harrison Barnes
Step 10) Profit

line of thinking.

If we’re careful with our finances, we can take on bad contract that lasts a few seasons. The catch, isn’t there always one, is that we must move beyond the first round maybes, and into the pretty sures. And then get it right. If we’re going to shell out for a top pick, lets make it 2011, so that they maximize the amount of experience they get before the team shifts gears and starts recruiting free agents.

by Yardly on Nov 28, 2010 11:14 PM EST reply actions