Tip-In: Raptors' Crush Suns in First Pre-Season Match
A 129 to 78 victory in their pre-season opener probably wasn't what Raptors' fans expected going into last night's match against the Suns, but that's indeed what transpired. The HQ breaks it down...
Asterisk
Asterisk
Asterisk
That's what you need to put beside any pre-season NBA performance right?
Because after all, it IS only pre-season.
Nevertheless, the Toronto Raptors' absolute shellacking of the Phoenix Suns last night in pre-season play, Toronto's first match of the season, looked pretty good didn't it?
And I'm not talking about scoring 129 points or holding Phoenix to 78, (although the 50 point disparity on the scoreboard was pretty amazing), I'm talking about the way in which Toronto did it.
For starters, let's talk D.
The Raps forced Phoenix into an ungodly 30 turnovers, and saw Triano's new defensive philosophies early and often; full-court D pick-ups, baseline forces, players getting into passing lanes...hell...even in extra extra garbage time, there was Marcus Banks making life miserable for Chucky Atkins and Goran Dragic. It was an absolute joy to see after last season's MC Lyte D..."Paper Thin."
As well, a 45 to 30 win on the glass brought a smile to my face, especially when Joey Dorsey, a player I've been begging the Raptors to give significant minutes to this season, was a huge part of this result. Dorsey is the reason I truly believe Reggie Evans is expendable as Joey had a double double (13 and 10) in only 18 minutes of action! He's a Dejuan Blair type and while not as polished offensively, he's got a better touch around the rim than Reggie, and is a superior passer with a more explosive leap. Evans played well last night, in fact he started next to Bargs to tip things off, but with Dorsey's play last night, I'd be hard-pressed not to look to deal an expiring contract combo of Reggie and Marcus Banks if I was BC, hopefully for some future upside.
Switching gears to the offense, again, hard to find much to complain about.
The team got contributions from everywhere to the point that all 15 players in uniform last night scored at least 3 points. There wasn't as much ball-movement as I was expecting, but the individual play of guys like Jack, DeRozan and Kleiza helped blow things wide open.
DeRozan struggled in the first half, looking much more like the same player from last year but in the second, was much more aggressive leading to a nice little run offensively which saw him finish as the team's second high-scorer with 16 points.
The leading scorer?
Nope, not Andrea, who we'll talk about in a minute.
Kleiza dropped in 20 points in effortless fashion, hitting 7 of his 9 shots. He also grabbed 5 boards in only 20 minutes of action, and before the game was finished the former Nugget was a trending topic on Twitter in Canada. He simply looks ready to play, both physically and mentally, and as National Post columnist Bruce Arthur noted last night after Kleiza's half-time interview:
Linas Kleiza: "I'm in pretty good basketball shape. I played all summer." He's the Bizarro Hedo!
Absolutely, and I also think he'll be Toronto's best player in 2010-11 when all is said and done.
Maybe Andrea scores more points, but in terms of having the most overall impact on this club, I'd say Linas will be the man.
But what about Andrea?
Are the rumours true that David Andersen, a player I criticized to death this off-season, actually outplayed him?
Unfortunately yes.
Bargs finished with 3 points on 1 of 9 shooting, and grabbed 4 rebounds in a team-high 24 minutes of action.
Not exactly a performance to write home about.
However I'm not going to write off his season here. The fact is that Bargs got doubled quite a bit and he's going to have to learn how to deal with that on a regular basis. He also rushed shots and just looked a bit anxious. I thought he actually did a nice job of being active on the glass when the opportunity arose, but considering the "soft" Andersen had the same amount of boards in nearly 10 minutes less court-time...well...let's just say Andrea needs play much better going forward.
A few final points here.
First, Jay Triano seems to have a new swagger to him. I was a Jay backer until about mid-way through last season when it became painfully obvious he was in over his head, but last night he just seemed a lot more "in control." He threw out various sets that forced Phoenix out of their offence, he got his team to execute reasonably well considering it was pre-season, and I just got the feeling that his Team USA experience this past summer has taken his game up a notch. Great to see, and let's hope that continues on.
The point guard situation is an interesting one. To me, there's no question Jarrett Jack should be the featured PG at this point, but his rapport with the second unit last night was so good that it'll be up to Jay to truly maximize both he and Jose Calderon's effectiveness.
The Suns did not look good. Sure, no Channing Frye or Hakim Warrick and they lost J Rich early to a sore shoulder, but woah. This team is really a collection of jump shooters and when those shots aren't going down in the big, bad west, minus Amar'e this team could be in big trouble. Asterisk, pre-season of course...
Oh Hedo. 6 points on 3 of 10 shooting. Get your fill Suns' fans. Yes he grabbed 8 boards, but there was absolutely nothing in the Ottoman's play last night that suggested to me that last year was just a "tough season" for Turk, as Jack Armstrong and others have alluded to, to my chagrin.
I said this on Twitter last night but the term "tough season" should be reserved for injury-prone players etc, not guys who don't commit.
Greg Oden had a "tough season" last year.
Hedo was lazy and overrated to begin with.
Turkoglu and his Suns have a chance at redemption from this thrashing of course, as they take on Toronto once more in pre-season play, on October 17th.
However to say that I expect Hedo to dominate the match ala his Orlando days is like saying I expected last night's Raptors demolition of the Suns...
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So...
Was this a glimps of how good the Raptors could be this season? Or an indictment of how bad the Suns might be?
Don’t want to say the Raptors are better off without Bosh, but if last night was any indication, they may be a lot more fun to watch.
Bargs was a bit of a disappointment last night. Especially considering how much I’d been defending him the last few days. I suspect this will be an isolated incident.
Loved the intensity of the game. It felt like post season ball. A lot of fun to watch.
You know your team is frustrated when GRANT HILL gets tossed. Once he and Lopez were gone, poor Nash had no one to pass to.
Dorsey was impressive, cementing my support of Franchise and MAS11 in saying forget Dampier.
Great game, lets hope we see more of that type of intensity on D in the futur.
I think it’s a combination of both…Suns look to be in trouble minus Amar’e – pure jump shooters and not a lot of size and rebounding.
And considering the team was never great on D, if the O goes…
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Oct 7, 2010 10:20 AM EDT up reply actions
Probably a little early to say the Raps will be better off without Bosh, just as its probably a little early to say Bargani will be an unmitigated disaster this season based on one pre-season game : )
But ya, I’m totally on team Dorsey. If they wave him to rent Dampier for one year it will be a travesty (when you also consider that there are 3 other young front court players on this team that also need time). If I was Triangelo I sit Anderson for the rest of the season, don’t sign Damp and just live and die on Bargnani (guess you kind of have to) Alabi, Davis, Johnson and Davis (no particular order) and let the development begin!!
can we just agree.....
it is too early for making ANY defenitive statement on just about anyting?
Absolutely…but better to see upside this early than all negatives. Seeing positives means the ability is there, it comes down to consistent execution, even against superior opponents.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Oct 7, 2010 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions
Based on what I saw from Andersen last night (well, this morning actually – ended up watching the game in an hour), I am surprised to say that he might have been a good pickup. Not as much of a defensive liability as I expected, and he really can play offense nicely.
Mind you, based on what I saw of Dorsey, he should be starting next to Bargs.
by dhackett1565 on Oct 7, 2010 11:54 AM EDT up reply actions
All about Dorsey
For all the reasons you mention, Anderson needs to sit and Dampier needs to be ignored (I hope they are doing Damp’s agent a favour). Development needs to be the keyword this year.
by RaptorsAddict on Oct 7, 2010 4:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Also
Hedo’s post game comments regarding the crowd were pretty funny. I too, can not wait to see how the crowd in Toronto greet him.
by Posterized on Oct 7, 2010 9:13 AM EDT reply actions 1 recs
Missed them
What did he say?
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Oct 7, 2010 10:21 AM EDT up reply actions
Basically
He was asked what he thought about the crowd. He said they greeted him really nicely and that was nice of them and that he couldn’t wait to see what the fans do in Toronto. The reporters all started to laugh. Hmmm, now that I’ve typed it out, it doesn’t seem to be as funny. Maybe you have to watch it. Check out the Score, that is where I saw it.
little bit of glass half empty...
hmm, the starting lineup did not have great stat lines (Bargs – whoa!). Don’t think Toronto’s bench will show this much depth on a consistent basis. Also seeing Amir with 5 fouls in 15 minutes – seems like the AJ of old; was hoping to see him play strong defence with the needed self-control to stay in the game.
I’m ok with this more because it’ll mean that guys like Alabi and Dorsey get more burn. Let everyone play hard and we’ll worry about fouls later.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Oct 7, 2010 10:08 AM EDT up reply actions
+1, as they say. I’d rather 15 minutes of full-burn Amir than 30 minutes of half-assed Amir. We’ve got a lot of depth – use it, I say.
by dhackett1565 on Oct 7, 2010 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions
I’m not going to lie – absolutely riveted by Bargnani right now. He wasn’t great last night as I mentioned, and it’s going to be interesting to see how he plays going forward. He got the bulk of the minutes and touches last night, yet Kleiza looked like the best go-to option.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Oct 7, 2010 10:41 AM EDT up reply actions
Given how fragile his ego is, if he doesn’t turn it around quickly it could be a long season for Il Mago. Having said that, I fully expect him to turn it around.
Me too
I was not happy with his performance, but it’s game 1 of the preseason, so I’m not going to be too upset about it yet. On the flip side, he did look to be in better shape and looked stronger, so I’m still hopeful that he’ll break out this year.
I thought that, although his shot was off, he did some things good. He was more active rebounding (didn’t show in the numbers, but he was in the mix for several offensive boards), he took NO three pointers, he showed some effort defensively, and although he had some trouble with the double teams, he wasn’t all that bad passing out of them for a first try.
Seems like Bargs has learned from Bosh a bit – the one FG he did hit was a turnaround fadeaway jumper in the middle of a triple team – the classic Bosh shot.
by dhackett1565 on Oct 7, 2010 11:58 AM EDT up reply actions
Reality check
Andrea does not have a fragile ego.
Hard to read too much into a preseason win...
… but a 51-point blowout?!
I think the suns are going to struggle to even make the playoffs minus Amar’e.
And the Raptors? I still think 20-something wins is the ceiling (not to mention the best thing that could happen to them this year in terms of landing a top pick in 2011). But at least there appears to be some pieces in place.
*also, I am LOVING my late round Linas Kleiza fantasy draft pick right about now
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 7, 2010 9:43 AM EDT reply actions
Do not get used to it
The Raps were your favourites against the suns JUST fore pre season, remember? (wink)
Habit forming
Winning is as much about habits as it is about talent sometimes. Knowing what to do in situations to come out on top can carry a team a long way, to the point where the team is better and the players are given more credit for the talent they have and use effectively (see Milwaukee, 09/10)
This is encouraging because winning as decisively as they did will only encourage the members of the team to buy into what the coaches are saying. Positive reinforcement that the system might actually work. This gives the coaching staff a tighter handle on the situation because the players “believe” and that goes a long way in them performing consistently in a way that will eventually make the fans “believe again”.
If it becomes more about a solid system that works consistently, it helps the organization make better decisions going forward about what type of players fit and what players are truly expendable. Good systems that translate to wins that help identify the “right” players is the foundation for good teams that win year in and year out. That is what we are all hoping for as fans of this team. Not one surprising year every five.
I’m encouraged because turnovers were low, they outrebounded the opponent, and the point differential was significant, indicators of a team that might deserve more credit than it has received so far.
A quick word on a few more things
Dorsey – This is the Maryland Dorsey I remember from back in the day. Dampier is not necessary
Reggie starting. Imagine a healthy properly integrated Ed Davis with good rebounding instincts and a soft touch, with Amir coming off the bench, and maybe it makes sense to start Reggie as a place holder, build some value until the rook is ready, and send him on his way.
Anderson. Maybe, despite his age, last year was a year he used to adjust to the NBA game after years in Europe. If he is properly acclimated he might turn out to be pretty useful.
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
by HQ Interloper on Oct 7, 2010 10:43 AM EDT up reply actions
Ya, the Suns are my team to fall off the face of the earth this year. Hill and Nash are a year older and with no Amare not sure how they get any production out of the post. Add all this to their traditional terrible D and I would actually be surprised if the Suns make the playoffs in the West this season… Might be to early to say, but I’ll say it anyways. The whole “Seven Seconds or Less”, offense is everything, defence and rebounding is irrelevant strategy was a flash in the pan. Kinda feel bad for Nash…
GRAB ASS
new NBA rule. You slap some ass, they send you to the showers.
Last nights game reminded me how much of a huge asset it is to be able to put an above average point guard on the floor for the entire game.
this is a 50 WIN season!
(for our opponents vs raps…)
It’s going to be interesting to see what Jay does with the PG situation. Jose did not look very good last night, especially on D where he repeatedly got beat to the cup, but Jack had such a good run with the bench, that the team is going to have to find a nice balance between the two, to get the most out of each.
Going for 50!
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Oct 7, 2010 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions
Just Preseason ??
Some interesting Raptors stats, 55 FTA’s from 14 diff players, 37 PTs off 30 Phoenix turnovers, 12 steals by 10 diff players, 21 ast by 9 diff players, 11 of 15 who played with a minimum of at least 6 points, 12 of 15 with at least 1 rebound. The game score is not important, what was is the TEAMWORK and aggressive effort on offense and defense from start to finish.
Will be interesting to see if the same effort is maintained in Boston and Chicago in the next 2 games coming up.
Great stats, and that was my overall view too – the score etc wasn’t the big story for me, it was the combination of individual efforts that formed a collective domination.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
by Adam Francis on Oct 7, 2010 12:19 PM EDT up reply actions
Sample Size Too Small
but I loved what I saw last night. Looking forward to the rest of pre season to see if we keep it up. Fantastic performances on both ends from a team perspective. Dorsey has my vote for a spot in the rotation; his demeanour reminds me of a young Charles Oakley. All of our players look in above average shape. Jack looked leaner and more agile. Barbosa and Weems on the Wing at the same time should be fun to watch. Kleiza will be broken down when the opposing SF penetrates and he is slow getting back when running back to defend in transition against a natural SF BUT offensively he is going to be a total mismatch at SF and he can play inside or out. He looked great offensively but got exposed defending the SF position last night. Alabi hasn’t made a fan of me; I predict he will be out of the league in 5yrs if not sooner (a bit harsh but honest opinion. Anderson looked good offensively as we all predicted but his defence is horrible. I’m still a fan of banks and think we should resign him for 1mil or less to be a 3rd pg for injuries and practice.
Looking forward to next game for sure.
Good breakdown
Pretty much agree on most fronts. I do think Alabi has a chance… I like the Dorsey comparison to Oak. However, I would compare him more to a poor man’s – no wait – homeless man’s D Howard. Massive shoulders and athletic for his size, great rebounder, good athleticisim for his size, no offensive polish but can finish close to the basket. Now that’s my kinda big man!
Just the thought of a low-post banger....
…has me dying for the season to start. Between Dorsey and AJ, we’ve got some high-octane athletes at the forward spot, all the better to offset Bargnani being, well, Bargnani-esque. Having rotation guys who bring it with hustle every single night has significant value. I think from reading what everyone is saying, the “whole-is-greater-than-the-parts” argument is one we as fans believe in. And to me, that starts with guys who do exactly what Joey Dorsey and Amir Johnson do. Oh, and as far as AJ’s minutes – run him out there, I’d rather him miss parts of games due to fouling out than getting diminished return over a longer time.
by RaptorsAddict on Oct 7, 2010 4:53 PM EDT up reply actions
david anderson's a beast
hahahaha
and so is dorsey. hope to see both play more mins this season. fun to watch. loved that gritty rebound anderson grabbed. too funny
I know they're going to struggle this season,
But to me this is a better team than last year’s.
This team has never had trouble scoring, with or without Bosh, if they can take a step forward defensively they could be in the mix for the last playoff spot.
I do kind of wish they’d add a proper center, someone who could defend and rebound and free up bargnani at the PF spot….
Phoenix was playing alot of what I would call… bad players who didn’t know what they were doing. Letting Derozan cut backdoor for the alley reminded me of summer league competition. If Phoenix keeps playing this badly, we are most assuredly not going to be the worst defensive team in the league this go-round!
go raps, but you guys are nuts
Remember that the T’Wolves kicked the crap out of the Lakers in their opening game a few days ago.
Pre-season means less than nothing. In fact, bad teams often do so well because they’re trying too hard, while the good squads yawn their way through the game and wait for the lights to turn on.
1st overall pick is still a high chance (thank god)
+1
Unfortunately, you’re right. Let’s note forget the year we went undefeated in preseason and then went on to start the season 0 for 9 and 2 of 15 (or something like that)… Preseason wins are fools gold, however we did see some promising things from the kids last night.
I’m thinking that the season you are thinking of is when the Raps went 7-1 in preseason. That was their best preseason to date.
It was also 2006 – the season in which the team went 47-35, for a team record in wins. Just saying.
Are you sure? I thought it was the season before the legendary 47 -35 year… you could be right, and if so ignore my previous post…
Yes, I am sure. But they did start the 47-35 season terribly, and made a huge run after Xmas to get that record. So I think your point still applies, it was just a humorous case to use, considering the end result.
Here's hoping!
I hope we lose every game of the year by one point and all our young players improve.
by RaptorsAddict on Oct 7, 2010 4:54 PM EDT up reply actions
An Encouraging Start
> Recognizing that this was the 1ST preseason game, and competition certainly was lacking – especially in the 4th Quarter – I think there are positives to be taken from this game.
- Kleiza – obviously he’s out to prove the doubters wrong. Of course it’ll be season play that truly demonstrates his “comeback” (or however one wants to define it)
- Evans – he looks fitter this year. Still has no offensive game, and I cringe when he’s at the free throw line. It’s his spirit & attitude that I think is great, and if he can understand that he’s not in Raptorland for his Post play, I think things could work out. Upside is, he impresses enough to enhance his trade value (besides being an expiring contract)
- Bargs – despite how the haters are waiting with baited breath for excuses, this was the 1st damn game. Personally, I think Jay matching Reggie up with Andrea, was not for the rebounding issue (that makes no sense – you want AB to get more, not have someone take them away). What I think JT might have been thinking (with Reggie and Andrea together), is in giving Bargs a crash course in double teams & opposition focus. Let’s face it, if you’re Phoenix, who do you guard. I thought Andrea played good defense, and if he spends the entire preseason working on that, while his offense makes a slow rise, I’m very happy with that.
- DeMar – He was off to a slower start, and most of his scoring came in the mid-3rd Quarter, a point in the game when someone like Swirsky would have started unpacking the salami & cheese. Never-the-less, I think he’ll make the next step when it really counts.
- Jose – Sluggish start, but we know what to expect from him. Still concerned about his hammy, and whether he’ll be healthy for the season.
- Jack – Played a steady game, with some nice play-making. Nothing special, but I think we understand JJ can enhance the Secondary.
- Amir – 5 fouls might cause some anxiety (especially with Budda), but I thought a number of those fouls were reach-ins, that AJ will hopefully resolve when the season starts. Seeing some of the other Bigs performance last night, I’m not as concerned (for now).
- Barbosa – Have to say, I like his game. If he stays healthy, Barbie will help.
- Weems – Hoping good things. Not a bad game … 12 pts & +20 in 18 minutes.
- Alabi – soft touch with the ball. Is this CB lite?
- Anderson – Only 1 game, but at least he brought the energy.
- Dorsey – pleasant surprise. He just might be that cheap version of Noah (not quite the same of course). Could work well with Bargs.
Energy was great. Defense was great. Lots of positives.
But still just 1 game.
American Airlines Areana!
Ouuuuch! Too soon? : )
By the way
I’m not trying to be insensitive, but what the hell happened to Todd MacCulloch? Is he suffering from some sort of medical condition? Or did he jus t gain A LOT of weight? He’s almost unrecognizable.
A Winnipeg, Manitoba native, the 7’0", 280 lb (2.13 m, 125 kg) center played four seasons in the NBA before being forced to retire prematurely due to a genetic neuromuscular disorder that affected his feet, Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
by HQ Interloper on Oct 7, 2010 3:42 PM EDT up reply actions
Saw him come out and knew he was going to take some heat for the weight gain on Twitter, and that people would forget he had the neuro disease. Feel terrible for him, he is almost unrecognizable though Posterized.
Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com
Any idea what he has been up to lately? I’m always curious to find out what players do when their playing days end abruptly and prematurely.
According to Wikipedia...
….playing a lot of pinball. I kid you not
by RaptorsAddict on Oct 7, 2010 4:59 PM EDT up reply actions
Wouldn't it be best to stress that EVERY GAME matters even in pre-season?
Given that the team missed the playoffs by one game? Taking that approach throughout pre-season will be useful in setting the appropriate tone going forward that the effort should be there ALWAYS. We as fans can say, yeah it’s only one game but the team has to think every game is meaningful. No turning on switches for this unit.
I wonder how much of a rotation would be required to pull this off on a consistent basis. Given the limited talent disparity between the 8th and 12th best player on this team, why not go with an 11 or 12 man rotation to allow for this level of pressure to be maintained throughout games and the season. Quick rotations, short burst of high intensity, should it not work against a lot of the league or have I dipped my lenses in rose colour too soon?
Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.
It’s nice in theory but that’s almost like switching QBs every couple plays just because one is not particularly better than the other. It’s a demotivator, reduces familiarity and doesn’t let young guys get used to playing through the ebb and flow.
Ultimately, what you want are guys who can play consistently well and succeed over longer stretches, not energy guys who try to be overactive over NHL length shifts.
man was the defense sweet, kleiza is very impressive were are all the kleiza haters now?
by raptors_run_the_show on Oct 7, 2010 6:17 PM EDT reply actions
Be careful
We play Boston next and Kleiza will be going up against Garnett and Pierce, two very capable defenders. By Sunday night, we could be reading “Man, Kleiza sucks. Where are all the Kleiza fanboys now?”
Triano needs to be better this year, and he will be
Often overlooked is how poorly Jay adjusted to his role as coach last season. There were the constant end of quarter plays that he did not push for 2 for 1s with 35-40 seconds left, there were the rotation issues and his poor handling of the refs and his inability to lead. A lot of those things were not his fault and some were, but I see a much better year for Jay this season. He doesn’t have a Bosh free agency issue looming over his head, he doesn’t have to please Hedo and give him huge minutes and he doesn’t have a to worry about pleasing any of his players, he now can become a leader and demand 100% effort from his guys, which for me, is a better position for Jay to be in than he was last year.
I think the Raps will be better than last year for 4 reasons,
1. Jay will be better
2. Linas is much better than Hedo
3. Leandro Barbosa along with a more experienced Demar and Weems are a big upgrade from last year at the two and should run the fast break well with either Jose or Jack. I expect to see Weems and Demar keep improving, and Barbosa was injured last year, and hopefully is back to his career numbers now that he is healthy. This is where they can get back some of Bosh’s scoring.
4. Defense, not just because Hedo is gone, but also because the team is full of hungry guys who really want to play…eg. Evans, Dorsey, Amir, Weems, and the team culture will be hungrier than last year. Jack Armstrong might be able to say at some point this season, “The Raptors play a punishing physical style where they run ten or eleven guys hard at you for 48 minutes and maintain defensive intensity throughout. They are tough on the boards on both ends of the floor and they get back on defence with desperate urgency.” Wouldn’t that be a change worth noting.
If you are an analyst, than do your thing with stats and if you think the Raps will be terrible this year, then so be it. If you are a Raps fan, don’t write them off before the season begins. We don’t know what to expect and there is hope, there is potential and that’s why they play the games.
Go Raps.



























