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The Importance of Reggie Evans

After watching Reggie Evans put forth a great overall performance on Sunday, Franchise wonders if Evans isn't a lot bigger key to the success of the Toronto Raptors this season than many people think...

Star-divide

 

 

I figured I'd start this post with a little video montage of possibly the greatest rebounder of all time, Mr. Dennis Rodman.

Rodman for his career averaged 13 rebounds a game, including nearly 5 of these on the offensive glass, but in his prime, "The Worm," regularly hauled in around 17 a night.

17.

Think about that for a second.

The Raptors as a team only averaged about 40 in total last year, so on many nights Rodman would have accounted for half Toronto's boards.  There's no question Rodman was a difference maker on the court, and it's a shame that his off-court persona has reduced him to a bit of a sideshow joke.

However for those that remember Rodman, they'll remember that he was more than just a spectacular rebounder. He was also one of the top defenders in the league and while not a shot blocker, was an expert at taking charges and locking down his man.  He was also an underrated passer and in his prime averaged over 2.5 assists per game.

No, nothing to write home about, but in the Chicago Bulls' triangle offense, it was essential to have a big man who could distribute to cutters like Jordan and Pippen, find open gunners like Steve Kerr and Toni Kukoc, or even lob the ball inside to Luc Longley types.  Essentially, Rodman had two jobs on the court - rebound and defend at one end, and help facilitate the offense around Jordan and Pippen at the other.

I was reminded of this while watching Reggie Evans in the second half of Toronto's win over Phoenix on Sunday afternoon.  Reggie was doing his best Rodman impersonation, hauling down balls and immediately resetting the offence, moving his feet on D, and making the correct decisions with the ball on O, finding teammates en route to 4 assists to go with his 7 points and 12 rebounds.

It was a spectacular performance in my books, and one that made me rethink my "why the hell are the Raptors starting Reggie Evans" stance.

The question remains however; is it feasible to expect Reggie Evans to take only 3 shots a night, hit 2 of them, pull in 12 rebounds and dish out 4 or so assists?

Looking at his stats historically, you wouldn't think so.

He's never even averaged an assist a game over a whole season, nor has he averaged even 6 points.  Yet he's averaged more than 3 field goal attempts per game, and has been a bit turnover prone during his career, especially in extended minutes.

In fact Evans is a player who has always been a bit of a paradox.

He is a rebounding monster, one of the best in the league on a per minute basis, yet he's such a horrific free-throw shooter and all-around offensive player, that it negates his rebounding value, and as a result, he's averaged below 20 minutes a game for his career.

He's always been seen as simply a role player, someone who can come in and do the dirty work on the glass and maybe change the tone of a game.  But starting material, he is not.

However it looks like the Toronto Raptors will be starting Mr. Evans at the 4 beside Andrea Bargnani when the season begins.

Is that a good thing?

Originally I didn't think so.  Yes, I get that he hopefully offsets Andrea's rebounding woes, but considering how little Andrea plays inside on offence, Evans' low-post malaise and free-throw shooting woes leave a gaping hole on O down low for the Raps.

Couple this with Evans' propensity to force the issue on O, we've all seen some of his beautiful post-up attempts, and I wondered if anything was better than an Evans-Andrea combo, even starting Joey Dorsey or moving Linas Kleiza to the 4.

But as mentioned, the second half of Sunday's game made me rethink my stance simply because Evans was so valuable in that win.  Yes he dominated the glass, and along with Amir Johnson simply destroyed Phoenix's interior, but he also made great decisions with the ball, decisions that resulted in easy baskets for the Raps, or opened things up ala the "hockey assist," where Toronto eventually scored on the ensuing possession.

In fact the offence ran through Evans much more than Andrea Bargnani.

Andrea took the shots sure, but if you watched Toronto's offence, it was Evans playing the "roll" man off pick-and-roll scenarios.  Bargs' screen-and-roll involvement right now seems to be only at the 3 point line, where afterwards, if the 3 point shot isn't there for him, the offence is reset, and that's when Reggie gets involved.

Because of this, it's absolutely crucial that Evans makes good decisions with the ball.

In the first half, this wasn't the case and his 3 turnovers on the night mostly came during this stretch.  Sometimes Reggie tends to get into his "bull in a china shop" mode, and simply puts his head down and tries to force a play. This obviously is when Evans is at his worse, and you could see the results in the first half as Phoenix raced out to a big lead.

But in the second half, by limiting his offence, and focusing on finding cutters and shooters, Toronto's offence was awhirl with motion, and the Suns had no answer.

Now Evans is no Pau Gasol.

But is he a worse option than Chris Bosh?

Last year based on John Hollinger's "assist ratio" stat, that is to say the percentage of player's possessions that turn into an assist, Bosh barely ranked ahead of Amir Johnson, and was 35th in terms power forwards ranked by this metric.  Evans played under 500 minutes last year and thus didn't qualify for the list, but during the 2007-08 season Reggie and Bosh posted virtually the same "assist ratio."

The same was true in earlier seasons so as a passer, one could argue that Evans was on par with Bosh even in limited minutes.

The advantage though of having Evans at this spot instead of Bosh is that he doesn't need offensive touches. Therefore he can look to facilitate things without dominating the ball and holding up the offence.

Provided he does of course do this.

Like Kris Humphries, Evans can be quite effective when he sticks to what he does best.

That means grabbing rebounds and if an easy put-back isn't there, taking the ball back out, dishing to a guard, and resetting the offence.

He did this many a time on Sunday, and it provided the team with extra possessions, something that has statistically been positively correlated to increased team wins.

Therefore I'm not as down on the Reggie Evans starting experiment as I once was.  It's something I'll be watching closely in the remaining pre-season games, but if Evans can be a factor on the glass, play solid D, and make good decisions on offense, then suddenly he becomes a big boost to Toronto, even with his free-throw shooting woes.

Interestingly, when going through the data on power forwards from previous seasons, one of the top passing players was none other than the Raptors' Jorge Garbajosa.  Fans and the team alike have lamented his loss and while it's always been his solid defence and basketball acumen that are mentioned, I think it's his passing ability, especially on the interior, that this team really has missed.  He simply made the game easier for his teammates, similar to a Pau Gasol or Lamar Odom.

Will Evans become a sort of better rebounding, worse offensive version of Garbajosa?

I'm not going to go that far.

But I do think it's safe to say that should Evans put in nightly performances like the one he submitted against the Suns, this Raptor team will much a lot more competitive than many people think.

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if Evans

only dribbled the ball in the most dire of circumstances…..

only took shots (or tried to make plays) when he is at the bucket…..

everyone would love him.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Oct 19, 2010 8:08 AM EDT reply actions  

I think u give Evans a bit too much credit. I mean, comparing him to the Wom? U gotta be crazy!!!!

by Jeffrey Thompson on Oct 19, 2010 8:10 AM EDT reply actions  

Physically they’re not the same obviously…Rodman was an athletic freak and played a different style overall…but it’s the impact I’m talking about, and the hope that Evans can be a Rodman 1.0 in that capacity.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Oct 19, 2010 8:17 AM EDT up reply actions  

Athleticism and savvy are the two big differences between Rodman and Evans. While he might have been a headcase off the court, on the court Rodman was a very smart player. He knew his role and he played it to a T. Also, in his Pistons years he wasn’t that bad an offensive player, so there was a bit of refinement to his game that I don’t expect to ever see from Evans.

The two biggest things that Rodman had that Evans may not have are 1) knowing when to give up the ball 2) athleticism on defense that allowed him to play even the best offensive 4s(Malone, Barkley, etc) straight up.

by DW19 on Oct 19, 2010 8:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Reggie on rebounds

Both Reggie mentioned, and Triano confirmed, a short and to the point meeting, where Jay said “Reggie if you want to play minutes your job is to get the ball, and pass it to a free playmaker, if not you will sit on the bench.” Reggie said he listens to his coaches, who decide if he plays minutes or not.
Until Ed Davis is ready to play, starting is the best place to utilize Evans talents with Amir coming off the bench providing the same kind of talent, but with a little more offense.

The main reason the starters got off to a slow start vs the Suns was 2 to’s, 0/2 ft’s by Reggie, 2 to’s, 0/2fg’s by Linas, and 1/4fg’s by DeMar, and 1 to by Andrea in the first 6-1/2 minutes and the Suns scoring on each miss or turnovers.
Five turnovers in the first 6-1/2 minutes led to a predictable 12 point deficit. They collectively need to slow it down and take care of the ball and make better shots, and stop the runouts to start the games.

by Johnn19 on Oct 19, 2010 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

Saw that interview post game, was GREAT to hear too and hopefully Reggie sticks to that role all season, whether he starts or not.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Oct 19, 2010 2:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

http://blogs.thescore.com/raptorblog/2010/10/18/reggie-evans-unfiltered/

This is the original article – which is actually fantastic. Great read. Reggie’s a good guy.

by dhackett1565 on Oct 19, 2010 8:31 AM EDT up reply actions  

everytime I read quotes

from reggie… I start to think how dissapointed I’d be if he gets moved. The guy has so much passion. Wants to succeed and wants this team (and players) to suceed.

Really who else would say:

“What we do have to prove is for us, is for the organization and for this city and really for this country. That’s the main thing”

Complete respect for this guy.

by Not so Friendly Stranger on Oct 19, 2010 9:11 AM EDT up reply actions  

Was thinking the same thing – he’s one of those glue guys that if he sticks to his role, has a profound impact on a club on the court, and his passion and professionalism go a long ways off the court as well.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Oct 19, 2010 2:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Defined roles

I see both Evans and Bargnani as guys with certain useful skills, but limited basketball IQs. They are like a Tom Cruise in the movies. They can play a certain role(let’s say action), but don’t ask them to do something else(let’s say drama) because they will suck. Guys like that can work if you find the right mix of pieces and give them very clearly defined roles, but when they have to think too much they will either become hesitant/unfocused(Bargnani) or reckless(Evans).

by DW19 on Oct 19, 2010 8:36 AM EDT reply actions  

Obviously you didn’t see “The Last Samurai”

by axl t on Oct 19, 2010 10:00 AM EDT up reply actions  

Rain Man? Jerry Maguire?

by dhackett1565 on Oct 19, 2010 10:06 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yeah, maybe I should have picked an even more obvious example like Dolph Lundgren. What kind of film can you picture that guy in other than an action movie.

Anyway, I think you guys get me drift. You need guys like Bargnani or Evans focused on a very short list of tasks for them to be effective. Evans instructions should be – keep your feet moving on defense, grab all rebounds, give up the ball unless you have a 2-foot gimme shot.

One of the problems with Bargnani is that he seems to have a lot of tools, so it is tempting to try and give him a lot of things to do. However, in my humble opinion, he is not a great thinker of the game and is more likely to excel if you simplify things for him. At the other end of the spectrum you have a guy like Jose who seems to have a good feel for the game, but doesn’t have the physical tools.

by DW19 on Oct 19, 2010 11:30 AM EDT up reply actions  

+2

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Oct 19, 2010 2:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Uh both those movies are critically acclaimed and hugely successful…

by axl t on Oct 19, 2010 12:43 PM EDT up reply actions  

On a roll

Boy, Franchise, you’re on a roll with great write ups. Great to see something other than Bargnani for discussion. We all know that size is not the most important aspect to rebounding but rather determination (a mindset) and position. Amir has that also.

The rebounders on past championship teams are often centers, Cartwright, Parish and today Bynam and Perkins. The Pistons with Rodman were a little different. So whether the rebounding comes from the 4 or 5 , probably is less important.
Pat Riley always maintained that one of the most important aspects of the game is rebounding. Most basketball minds agree.
There is no doubt that Reggie provides a very important aspect as a role player. There is a fine line however, with his offensive game because he needs to shoot ocasionally to keep the defense honest.

by raptball on Oct 19, 2010 10:11 AM EDT reply actions  

Thanks – was looking forward to writing this as soon as the game concluded Sunday…just made me think about a bunch of things that I think fans and media alike have overlooked regarding this club.

And to your point, I’m looking to see more of the Amir and Reggie combo at times. There’s not a lot of offence with them together, but if paired with the right back-court and in certain match-ups (like Sunday), they can absolutely dominate.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Oct 19, 2010 3:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Jack-Barbosa-Kleiza-Reggie-Amir is actually pretty dangerous…

by dhackett1565 on Oct 19, 2010 4:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

…against a team with no center… but for a small ball team built for speed yup…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 19, 2010 4:09 PM EDT up reply actions  

With that lineup you could probably get away with using Reggie on the C, and aggressively doubling him.

by dhackett1565 on Oct 20, 2010 7:53 AM EDT up reply actions  

Deja vu all over again

Weren’t we waiting for him to come back from injury last season? Once healthy we would go on a roll.
That didn’t quite work out as expected.
Role players get their opportunity to shine on solid teams, their weaknesses can be overshadowed. We are not close to being a solid team.
As a fan of the game you gotta love his enthusiasm and hope it’s contagious. Hope it rubs off on the Amir’s and Davis’s.
Reggie’s greatest value will be his expiring deal.

by Tinmann on Oct 19, 2010 11:18 AM EDT reply actions  

I’m not saying Reggie gets this team into the playoffs…but if he can limit his offensive attempts (which historically have killed his efficiency), his rebounding and potential offensive orchestration I believe will really help this team.

The key though is if he can really focus on this role, and get away from trying to be a go-to option. I compared Evans to Dennis Rodman in this way, mostly because neither are/were great shot blockers, but maybe Ben Wallace is a better compare. Wallace in Detroit knew exactly what he was there to do…rebound and block shots.

That being said, I do realize that on a team full of talent, we wouldn’t be having this discussion.

This is more about finding “efficiencies where you can,” to put it in a business sense.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Oct 19, 2010 3:26 PM EDT up reply actions  

Role Definition

We’re starting to see some of this take shape, and it’s a sight for sore eyes. One thing that appeared to be an issue last year was the lack of defined roles; at least from an outsider’s perspective. Triano looks to be doing a better job with this so far this preseason. It looks like Reggie knows his role, Barbosa looks to know his, and Kleiza as well. These three are starting to look comfortable.

Reggie’s second half was excellent, but I noticed the game before he was also not forcing the offense nearly as much. His role should be to rebound, play good D, set good screens and only take dunks or layups on offense. The only shooting he should even be practicing is at the free-throw line.

Good article.

by Mistafitz on Oct 19, 2010 11:22 AM EDT reply actions  

Reggie wasn't in in my starting five...

from day one. I had Amir at the 4. The more I thought about it though the more it made sense. Start Reggie, let him hustle and bang on opponents. Then when Amir comes in, the other guys have a little less in the tank and hopefully Amir can control his foul situation due to a slower (even if it’s minuscule) pace by his opponent.

Besides, with Jose running a more half court style I would rather have Amir out there with Jack, Barbosa, Weems etc. to be flying above the rim and finishing hard on breaks… Not exactly a Reggie Evans specialty…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 19, 2010 11:29 AM EDT reply actions  

Johnson's Fouls

It appears that you may have missed what Triano said during an interview after the loss the the Celtics.

“I don’t want anyone getting easy layups against us. I don’t care if my players foul out as long as they do not allow uncontested layups.”

Johnson’s job is play as hard as he can for as long as can without committing any stupid fouls. If one means controlling his foul problem by not committing stupid fouls , then I would agree.

However, if one means controlling his foul problem but not getting two fouls early during his rotation minutes or five or six in a game, then that is not going to happen, especially the latter.

As long as Triano has the “I don’t care if they foul out” mentality then Johnson will use most if not all of his allotted fouls in the majority of games that he plays in.

I happen to agree with Triano’s approach here.

Hopefully Johnson will be able to cut way down on stupid fouls so that he can use his allotted fouls with a more aggressive defense which rubs off on this teammates on the court with him.

by Buddahfan on Oct 19, 2010 12:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Agreed...

Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want Amir to play soft… I only mean that if Reggie has already “laid the lumber” to a few guys, they will have less energy to pump fake and slash to draw silly fouls from Amir…

If Reggie can slow them down a touch initially Amir should see his numbers go up in boards and blocks too… theoretically of course…

If Amir fouls out of every game but has stopped/altered a dozen baskets by his opponents I say well played…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 19, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Ed Davis' role

This Reggie thing may be a flash in the pan, but if it turns out to be effective then I wonder if Ed Davis could slide into Anderson’s minutes on the second unit. Granted Davis is a beanpole, but I think he could be more effective against backup centres than he would be against starting-calibre PFs. He and Amir would round out an athletic bench rotation. Reggie and Amir might be good for 24 mins each at PF, while Davis gets 12-15 minutes backing up Bargnani. Just a thought….

by DW19 on Oct 19, 2010 11:40 AM EDT reply actions  

Evans and Rodman

Comparing Reggie Evans to Dennis Rodman is like comparing a drunken mother and daugther singing Karaoke in a Country and Western bar to Naomi and Wynonna Judd.

The article goes downhill from there.

This whole piece is the author’s attempt to rationalize in their mind why Evans is starting for the Raptors.

Its like Michael said in the Big Chill

Rationalization is more important to people then sex.

Why? Try and get through a day without a good rationalization.

I think he may have a point.

by Buddahfan on Oct 19, 2010 11:55 AM EDT reply actions  

RE Reggie

Would you rather see Reggie on the second unit, and Amir starting ? How would that work, vs what we have now with a high energy scoring quartet of Amir, Jack, Weems, and Barbosa, with Andersen as an emergency fill in.
I think this is the better rotation untill Ed Davis is ready to contribute.

by Johnn19 on Oct 19, 2010 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

Totally Agree Buddah

Sorry Franchise but I think you simply forget how good a player Rodman was in his Bulls and to a lesser extent his Pistons days. People shortchange Rodman when they make such comparisons.

Happiness is that which gets lost in the details of its pursuit.

by HQ Interloper on Oct 19, 2010 4:38 PM EDT up reply actions  

And i think both you and Budda missed the entire point of the comparison both in the article and in the comments. I know it is difficult to understand tone in text but the point wasn’t to say that Evans could be as good as Rodman but that he should follow Rodman’s example and just rebound and play d to help the Raptors. When Evans plays a similar style to Rodman he is more effective. Thank you and enjoy your HQ.

by McGateway on Oct 20, 2010 9:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Projected Point Production by Position

On any given night I would expect numbers in the following range…

PG- Calderon (5-15) Jack (8-20) Total (13-35)
SG- Derozan (3-18) Barbosa (10-25) Total (13-43)
SF- Kleiza (8-25) Weems (6-22) Total (14-47)
PF- Evans (5-13) Johnson (2-15) Total (7-28)
C- Bargnani (10-25) Anderson (2-12) Total (12-37)

So on a tragic night I expect around 59 pts and on a perfect night 190? hmmm wait for it…

While the low score is a possibility, there just simply aren’t enough shots in the game for all guys to max out scoring. So no, I’m not saying we’re capable of a 190 point game. When some of those guys have great games, the others are naturally going to dip…

The biggest thing to take away from this really is the disparity in points between off nights and on nights. Consistency out of these guys is going to be a huge challenge.

We aren’t that bad on paper really, it’s on the court where we’ll have to see…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 19, 2010 11:56 AM EDT reply actions  

And I REALLY don’t want to see Reggie hit his high point total cause in that scenario, the other guys are missing almost all of their shots and he’s taking out the garbage…

Same with Anderson, if he’s doing well it’s because Barg’s is really screwin the pooch…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 19, 2010 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d most like to see these guys consistently have good nights:

Jack, Barbosa, Kleiza, Johnson and Bargnani combining to max out at 110 pts!

Add some minor point production from the rest and that’s a great game!

So how do we get that?

Kleiza and Bargs get off early and efficiently in a set offence and we run and gun, run and gun, run and gun…

Unfortunately with this roster, the best case scenario hurts the ego of Demar and Sonny, but this roster isn’t going to look like this for too long anyway…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 19, 2010 12:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d be curious what you think the Heat or the Lakers would score.

by Ustation on Oct 19, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

At a glance...

Lakers Production Range and what I expect for an average ppg

Derek Fisher (8-20) 10ppg Steve Blake (2-12) 4ppg
Kobe Bryant (10-40) 28ppg Shannon Brown (5-12) 6ppg
Ron Artest (5-18) 12ppg Matt Barnes (6-19) 13ppg
Pau Gasol (12-25) 18ppg Lamar Odom (4-14) 10ppg
Andrew Bynum (8-25) 16ppg Theo Ratliff (2-12) 5ppg
Total (62-197) Average 122 ppg

  • to compare directly to my Raptors chart I only used 2 players at each position, the Lakers have a few more guys I would definitely factor in some additional points from as well…

Somewhere to the tune of adding another 10 points to the low end (for a 72) and up to 20 at peak production (for a 217)… remember that I concede that there aren’t enough shots in any one game for all the players to peak at the same time…

The truth of the matter with the Lakers though is that I would be much more confident in using what I think they would average because I see much more consistency…

122 ppg with about a 12 ppg reduction due to minute allotment… when one guy is rolling his counterpart will get less court time… so I’m gonna go on record as saying “the Lakers will average very close to 110 ppg on the season.”

Now, I didn’t research anything, this is only my opinion based on what I’ve seen from each player on TV… don’t bash me too hard, but feel free to pat me on the back if you think I have some idea what I’m talking about…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 20, 2010 6:20 PM EDT up reply actions  

Numbers

PG- Calderon (5-15) Jack (8-20) Total (13-35)
SG- Derozan (3-18) Barbosa (10-25) Total (13-43)
SF- Kleiza (8-25) Weems (6-22) Total (14-47)
PF- Evans (5-13) Johnson (2-15) Total (7-28)
C- Bargnani (10-25) Anderson (2-12) Total (12-37)

Hate to be a stickler, but your shooting numbers don’t reflect history.
09-10 Point stats (except Kleiza – 08/09) … with your projected numbers in parenthesis

  • Jose was a .482 average (versus 5/15 or .333)
  • Jack … .481 (8-20 or .400)
  • Derozan … .498 (.167)
  • Kleiza … .447 (.320)
  • Weems … .505 ( .273)
  • Evans … surprise surprise .493 (not .385)
  • Johnson … .623 – definitely not 2-15 (.133)
  • Bargnani … .470 (10-25 or .400)
    .

by RapthoseLeafs on Oct 19, 2010 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think Mithaniel was giving a range for expected scoring. For example, he is saying Calderon will likely score between 5 and 15 points in any given game. The range is wide enough that it is almost inevitably correct, but I’d say maybe too wide to really tell you much.

by DW19 on Oct 19, 2010 3:28 PM EDT up reply actions  

… essentially my point in a nutshell… it IS too wide of a margin to be relied upon…

there is not enough consistency to narrow the estimation…

Reggie is actually my most reliable player, not that he is the guy you want to rely on but rather that you know what you’re gonna get regularly…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 19, 2010 4:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

You misinterpret...

I am not saying Jose will shoot 5 for 15, I am saying he will score between 5 and 15 points…
Jack will score between 8 and 20 points…

On any given night, this is the range of offensive output I expect…

All completely speculative…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 19, 2010 3:37 PM EDT up reply actions  

My bad

.
Sorry Mik …. Asleep at the wheel on that one.
.

by RapthoseLeafs on Oct 19, 2010 11:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

I think your comparison might work better if you just used your projected averages. Not a lot of teams have scored 59 points (at least not since the shot clock was introduced).

by McGateway on Oct 20, 2010 9:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

All I am saying is that each of those guys can reasonably expected to have nights as bad as the worst total, and some nights as good as the best total.

The problem is that they don’t have the consistency to narrow that down accurately.

I wouldn’t take my numbers, low and high, add them and divide by two to get what I think that player will average either. I believe most of these guys will average nearer the lower end of expectations on a more regular basis than otherwise.

For example, on a bad night I expect Jose to get at least 5 points, at least…
On a good night, it’s reasonable to think he will knock down 15 points.
Straight math suggests I’m giving him a scoring average of 10 ppg, but in reality I feel he will probably steadily underperform in point production and end up averaging around 8 ppg on the season…

For that reason I don’t have averages to put forth other than to say overall each player is probably going to average nearer the lower end of those numbers over the entire season.

And I do think we are in store for a near 59 point stinker at least once this season…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 20, 2010 5:33 PM EDT up reply actions  

Now looking at last years +/- point stats… per game these guys looked like this:

Jack -1.5
Barbosa +2.11 (09-10 w/Suns)
Kleiza +.18 (08-09 w/ Nuggets)
Johnson +.25
Bargnani -2.15

Total -1.11 ppg

Keeping it close and hoping the bench outperforms…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 19, 2010 12:57 PM EDT reply actions  

Sorry, as 3 of these key guys are bench players I mean hoping the rest of the team outperforms…

Unfortunately again, that means 3 of our other starters being a better plus/minus than their opponents and that isn’t likely to happen… Especially when this scenario shows the other five guys are the ones playing well…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 19, 2010 1:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Rodman was a freak… in the best of ways… freakishly good at what he did…

When a guy his size is the best option to shut down (minimize damage anyway) Shaq in his prime… he really doesn’t have many peers…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 19, 2010 4:52 PM EDT reply actions  

Bill Simmons

In his latest podcast feels sorry for us Raptor fans. Calls us a disaster. Said his dad texted him from the Celts/Raps preseason game, thinking we were missing key people. Had to tell him nope the the Raptors.
The over/under on wins is 26.5. He chose under.

by Tinmann on Oct 19, 2010 9:06 PM EDT reply actions  

I’m going with the under. I think that’s even moved down a win (it opened at 27.5).

A lot of the advanced stats guys seem to be putting the Raps between 25-26 wins. Jay Triano should be “good enough” to knock at least a couple of wins off the most optimistic estimate. So I’ve got them around 22 wins.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 19, 2010 10:48 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, they were missing people. Bosh and Turkoglu.

by McGateway on Oct 20, 2010 9:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

As much as I like Simmons

He says some stupid shit. He thought Ed Davis was on the Pistons, that’s borderline insulting. He pretty much hits the nail on the head when it comes to elite players and teams, but don’t expect him to give a crap about the bad teams in the league. I guess that’s why people like him. He’s more of a fan than an analyst.

by HDave on Oct 20, 2010 12:05 PM EDT up reply actions  

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