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3 in the Key - Raptors Game-Day Preview vs The Celtics

After a thrilling win in overtime Wednesday night against the 76ers, the Raptors are back in action tonight for a pre-season rematch against the Celtics...

Star-divide

Looks like I missed a good one Wednesday night.

You don't often get great pre-season games, and a double-OT one where the home team snatches the W would have to be pretty close to epic in this sense.

And I was stuck in Seattle for work.

That's why I'm really looking forward to tonight's match against the Celtics.  Toronto lost a winnable game to them earlier earlier in pre-season play, and I'm hoping they come out hungry tonight, looking for some revenge.

And, as the first game since the OT thriller, I'm also hoping the Dinos build on their last victory, which from the sounds of Vicious D's recap, and the amount of reader discussion, was a much better example in many ways of what fans this year are hoping to see from this club.

Well...

...except for from our buddy Andrea Bargnani.

I posted this from Seattle after the Bulls' loss but fans have been dealt a cruel hand with Bargs.

Essentially, as the top overall pick, IMMEDIATELY the expectations were pretty big for "Il Mago," and justifiably so.

Like the drafting of Rafael Araujo, no, it's not Andrea's fault he was picked first overall. But it's tough for fans to swallow the fact that we SHOULDN'T expect franchise-player production from him given that draft status, AND, given Colangelo's constant "pumping up" of his top pick...and yes, this includes the big contract extension.

The other cruel part is that he LOOKS like he should be able to do more...but he just doesn't, something Jay Triano has even alluded to recently.

Is it an effort thing? Sometimes it seems like it.

Is it a question of being put in the "best possible situation?" That seemed to play a part when Bosh was here etc.

It's an interesting situation, especially for us at RaptorsHQ.

We went from being a bit skeptical about Bargnani being the top overall pick (none of us would have taken him, although our other wishes, me with Tyrus Thomas, were hardly a big improvement), to being excited about his upside after year one, to quickly realizing in year two that he had to take some major steps forward on D and in terms of rebounding, to comparing him to Rashard Lewis in year 3 in terms of upside, to arguing that we'd seen pretty much all we were going to see from him as an NBA player by year 4.

And that's the position we've had since then, although some of us have feel more strongly about this than others.

It's tough though because after looking at things from 18 different angles in order to prove that Andrea is essentially a pretty inefficient overall player, and taking heat for that take, now, it seems that a great deal of fans are suddenly behind that movement and want to put the whole issue to bed!

And really that's fine.

We'd rather dig into other players' games and not constantly have to focus on Andrea.

The problem is, until Bryan Colangelo and the Raptors hit this point as well, we may have no choice.

It's hard to discuss a game and not point to a 6 of 22 offensive performance in 37 minutes against an undersized and frankly, soft front line.  That was Bargs' O-line from Wednesday night and while he did have 8 boards and 4 blocks, it's just hard to honestly recap a contest without noting things like this, especially considering this is the player expected to be the go-to guy on most nights.

Does that mean rehashing the whole "he's overrated," or "he can't rebound or defend" points over and over?

No.

But it also doesn't mean he's exempt from criticism the rest of the way.

Maybe the baseline for expectations has been lowered, but if he's not even hitting those, then it'll be tough not to give him some heat.

And with that...let's turn to our first key tonight against Boston...

1)  Get Andrea going.  The pre-season is all about testing out different things, whether it be line-up combinations, plays, defensive schemes, new food at the canteen...whatever.  So keeping in this theme, I'd like to see the Raptors put an emphasis on testing tonight, but in terms of helping Andrea.  It still looks to me like he's forcing the issue, and not comfortable in terms of where his shots are coming from etc.  The onus is on him of course to figure this out, and work hard in other areas when his offence isn't there, but I'd also like to see Jay Triano get him more involved in scoring attempts close to the basket.  

Simply put, he needs to be more of an offensive factor in contests as this the bulk of his game, so I'm hoping tonight we see Triano involving him in more pick-and-roll scenarios where Andrea is "the roller," and where Toronto is looking to get Bargs involved in mismatches down low.

2)  Knock down the free-throws.  57% from the charity stripe on Wednesday night?  Really?  While we worried this off-season that Toronto wouldn't get to the line nearly as much as they had during the Bosh era, this hasn't been the case in pre-season.  What has been the case is that when they get there, they aren't knocking them down.

At all.

We figured the team's percentages in this area would take a hit this season, sure, but to hover around 60% most nights?

That's going to cost the club many a game come regular season.

Part of the problem is that the folks who keep getting to the line more than others, Evans, DeRozan, Johnson, have never been good f-t shooters.  So with the ball in their hands more in these situations, it spells trouble.  Against a Boston team that is actually shooting a pretty high percentage so far from the stripe, Toronto needs to focus on knocking them down.

3)  Effort.  From reading the various recaps of the past two games, one thing really jumped out at me in terms of differences between the two - effort.  It sounded like Toronto basically slept-walked through the Bulls match, but came out with a lot more intensity against the 76ers.

The Celtics bring max effort almost every time they step on the court, even in pre-season, so it's imperative that Toronto not start by coasting this evening.

This is especially true of guys like DeRozan, Barbosa and Amir Johnson - so far when those 3 all have solid games, Toronto has looked pretty good.  When they've been tentative...

No word on who gets the starting nod this evening, I'm guessing the same 5 as the last match, but at this point it shouldn't matter.  There's only four pre-season games left, time to get after it in each and every one with the NBA regular season right around the corner.

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Free Throw Percentage

The free throw percentage has been a bit disconcerting, to say the least. But I guess that’s to be expected when you replace an 80% free throw shooter who got to the line eight or nine times per game with Reggie Evans and Amir Johnson.

That being said, at least free throw shooting doesn’t appear to impact winning in the NBA, according to the Sport Journal and the NY Times. The fact that Johnson, in particular, hits a high percentage of field goals is actually far more important to winning. Now, if he could only solve the fouling issue…

However, Dave Berri of Wages of Wins argues that there IS a cost of throwing away free throws.

So who do you believe?

I think you can play guys like Johnson — and his free throw shooting will have little negative impact — as long as you have a “free throw lineup” that you can roll out at the end of a close game. Guys like Leandro Barbosa, Jarrett Jack, Jose Calderon, and Andrea Bargnani (yes, I used his name in a positive light for once).

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 15, 2010 10:36 AM EDT reply actions  

Good points. I personally hate bad FT shooters especially bigs or slashers who can’t hit at least 70%. Watching a guy like Evans miss 2 out of 2 I find myself asking, “why did you even bother grabbing that rebound?” True he may have prevented a fast break the other way, but what a waste of all the effort he made in grabbing that offensive board.

by DW19 on Oct 15, 2010 12:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

The key with Evans — and I think Triano has been screaming from the sidelines for this — is to rebound and kick it out to a guard. It’s pointless for Evans to grab a board and then try to score because he’s going to either miss badly or get fouled and…ummm… miss badly. Rebound, kick it out to a guard, and reset your offence.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 15, 2010 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions  

The other problem with Evans is if he’s missing so many free-throws, especially the second of pairs, is that it can create an automatic fast-break the other way.

Raptors’ opponent grabs the rebound off his miss, and off they go the other way…

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Oct 15, 2010 1:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

What would Dennis Rodman do?

by bigweeze on Oct 15, 2010 3:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

Actually, I could live with 65% FT shooting from the above. Shaq would probably have surpassed Jordan in points if he shot 65% from the free throw line instead 48%.

by McGateway on Oct 15, 2010 11:56 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have no idea what your saying?

I think you completely missed what fan’s are saying about this blog and about Andrea. They don’t mind the criticism, what they can’t stand is the absurd hatred and obvious personal agendas on display from some of the writers on this websites.

Also the fan base is not agreeing with your guys take on Andrea, what an absurd and self-righteous thing to say. It demonstrates what is wrong with this blog now. You guys have already made up your mind about Andrea and will use every nuance, real or not, to stick to your perception of Andrea.

To prove my point lets look at the last game. For awhile now you guys have been demanding that Andrea show up on the defensive end. For the Phil. game he was the best defender on the floor (for either team). Did this get mentioned in the post-game report? No it did not, so that leaves me confused. Out of one side of this blogs mouth you whine about Andrea not playing defense and then when he has a stellar game at the defensive end you guys don’t even mention it, the only thing you talk about is how awful he was offensively.

YOU KNOW WHAT I’M SAYING!

A little piece of advice for you. If you want to have credibility and legitimacy as a Toronto Raptor’s blog, knock off all the partisan BS. Start looking at things from a objective POV and not through the prism you guys look through now.

I repeat, Andrea was the best player on the floor defensively Wed. night, something you guys say you want to see but when he does it you ignore it and look for any other excuse to push your preconceived notions about Andrea.

by even flow on Oct 15, 2010 10:37 AM EDT reply actions  

Even flow – “absurd hatred?”

Um…pretty sure everything we’ve ever written about Andrea, or noted, has been backed up a million times by various statistical views. I mean, that was a good chunk of our off-season posts!

And I was the one who asked for better D from Andrea – having not seen the Philly game, hard for me to comment on that…

I’d also like to know where the other “partisan b.s.” exists…is there a single player on the Raptors that we laud above everyone else regardless of what he does?

Nope.

Sonny Weems is one of our faves and yet we labelled him a “black hole” after the last game…

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Oct 15, 2010 11:36 AM EDT up reply actions  

Your absurd hatred of Sonny Weems is ruining this site.

by dhackett1565 on Oct 15, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

And love of Patrick O’Bryant :)

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Oct 15, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

Your lauding of Hoffa is getting a little old as well. ; )

by Posterized on Oct 15, 2010 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions  

LOL

I actually miss Hoffa in light of all this Bargs stuff.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Oct 15, 2010 1:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

I agree

The Great Bargnani debate is getting to be a bit much. It certainly angers up the blood of the Raptors faithful though, doesn’t it?

by Posterized on Oct 15, 2010 6:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

My two cents

Myself, I’m all for criticizing Bargnani and all other players, but using basketball reasons or game observations for it. Once a point has been made, move on. And I’m talking about the bloggers (DS), not so much the commenters.

It just gets boring when everything is used as an excuse to rips on things everyone already knows.

In nutshell DS’s ripping on Bargnani yesterday got old real fast.

by axl t on Oct 15, 2010 11:39 AM EDT up reply actions  

My comments about Bargnani can be summarized like this:

- his assist rate has gotten worse despite an increase in minutes

- and he failed to roll on a pick and roll play, which contributed to a brutal pass by Calderon (key word: contributed… Calderon is still to blame for throwing the pass itself)

For those of you familiar with the Toronto mayoral race, this isn’t exactly Rob Ford-type bashing. I’m not saying the guy is fat or making fun of his appearance — they’re comments related to the game.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 15, 2010 12:07 PM EDT up reply actions  

Right, that’s the stuff I like – as I say in my post… the annoying stuff is the all-caps ranting about his ‘instinct’ and ‘experience’ and just the general direction you steer discussion sometimes (lately) by rehashing and noting bargnani’s deficiencies ad nauseam … like I said, I just find it boring.

I’m not keeping track, I’m not taking notes, this is just my sense of things… If you were a commenter I wouldn’t say anything, but as a blogger, you are a defacto moderator, so I expect you to be a little more ‘moderate’ … or not.

by axl t on Oct 15, 2010 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

The all caps was just an attempt to match up my response to the previous commenter’s points (which I thought was a decent theory). But yes, it’s considered shouting on the Internet. Fair enough.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 15, 2010 12:57 PM EDT up reply actions  

Just out of curiosity – how do you know the play called was not a pick-and-pop? Because Johnson did cut into the lane at just the right time for a pass from Jose, just went deeper than Calderon (apparently) thought he had.

If it was a pick+roll, wouldn’t Johnson be clearing the lane to make room for Bargs?

by dhackett1565 on Oct 15, 2010 1:22 PM EDT up reply actions  

Yes.

I do find some of the entries on this blog to be absurd and based on hatred because I don’t have any other explanation for it. You did it again on this entry, except this time you blame BC for what you guys write about Andrea, which I do find interesting, your starting to sound like Stephen Harper blaming everybody else for your actions instead of looking at yourself and asking legitimate questions about what you present on this blog.

“Um…pretty sure everything we’ve ever written about Andrea, or noted, has been backed up a million times by various statistical views. I mean, that was a good chunk of our off-season posts!”

There you go again, talking like you are right and everyone else is wrong. We have stats to back up and prove what we have written! Really? Stat’s tell you certain things but unfortunately they don’t tell you everything.

“I’d also like to know where the other "partisan b.s." exists…is there a single player on the Raptors that we laud above everyone else regardless of what he does?”

Let me toss this back at you, is there a single player on the Raptor’s that this blog singles out everyday and laments how horrible they are regardless of what he does? The answer is a resounding YES.

You are not an authority on basketball, stop pretending that because you write on a blog you have more credibility than other people. You have the ability to be wrong just as much as any other person who watches the Raptor’s. Showing humility is a sign of strength, not weakness.

by even flow on Oct 15, 2010 1:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Let me address these individually:

I’m not sure why this is about blame. I was simply explaining why I find it so difficult not to put Andrea in the spotlight and yes, Bryan Colangelo is a big part of this. I’m not sure how you can logically say he isn’t, considering he’s the one who drafted him and he’s the one who signed off on Andrea’s extension. Who else IS there to blame if you want to talk blame? Either Andrea isn’t living up to expectations because he, himself is not working hard enough, or the expectations were wrong in the first place. Who put those expectations there by making him the first overall pick? Bryan Colangelo.

And as an aside, I’m not sure how this is any different from Hedo, a player I DO in fact despise unlike Andrea.

Next point – hey, I’d love for Andrea to prove me wrong. I’d love for him to go out and get 20 and 10 a night, be an All-Star, prove that he’s not a below average NBA player according to John Hollinger, or Dave Berri, or, etc, etc.

But after four years we haven’t seen it.

Simple as that.

Unfortunately there’s been a lot more proof that he won’t be a stud, then there is that he will be. Yes, stats don’t tell you everything, but where’s the other side of the equation that says Bargs will be anything more than a 3rd option offensively on a great team, or a 6 rebound per game big man? The fact that not a single “expert” picked Toronto to excel this year should speak volumes about Andrea even outside “stats.” If he was really an upper tier player, wouldn’t this club at least have been in consideration for the big dance this year?

Let me toss this back at you, is there a single player on the Raptor’s that this blog singles out everyday and laments how horrible they are regardless of what he does?

Don’t follow you on this one. How does that make me partisan other than make me partisan to criticizing poor performances? Andrea hasn’t performed well yet…when he does, we won’t focus in on him. Most of of the other Raptors have been up and down…we discuss both each time.

And didn’t I mention I wanted the Raptors to draft Tyrus Thomas? Or how about at one point me thinking that Chris Douglas-Roberts was the second coming of Dr. J…that hasn’t happened yet ha ha. I’m often wrong and like to point out when I am…unfortunately I’ve been right a lot lately about this team, and I’m not happy about it…

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Oct 15, 2010 1:59 PM EDT up reply actions  

Herein lies the problem with debating this point with Bargnani supporters.

They have no arguments (statistical or reason/logical) to debate the arguments presented demonstrating that Bargnani is nothing more than an average NBA player who is overpaid and cannot start for a legitimate contender. So the argument has devolved into claim that HQ writers and posters are biased and haters. Simply by presenting the FACTS that Bargnani is overvalued player, you have become biased.

I challenge even flow or anyone else to instead of reducing the arguments to the lowest level of name calling, provide rational, logical, statistical based or logic based analysis to refute what is being posted. However, this will not happen, as these arguments do not exist (or at least I have not heard them yet).

I saw posts yesterday stating “I’m going to go to (insert alternative Raptors related blog, i.e. Raptors Republic) because you guys are too down on Andrea”. Well I have a news flash for you – EVERYONE, bloggers, beat grunts, reasonable fans, ESPN/SI analysts (actually all blue chip basketball media), pundits, coaches (including Bargnani’s own coach) question Bargnani’s value, efficiency, commitment to the game and overall legitimacy as an NBA starting centre. So please, go to another blog, what you will find is there is a firm consensus that reflects EXACTLY what is being said (and I HOPE will continue to be said) on this site.

Grow up, realize you are wrong and stop whining. If Bargnani turns it around and starts to be a consistant contributer on both ends of the court and all the statistics start to swing the other way, by God I swear I will be the first to call out the HQ for being unreasonable if their arguments are not based in reality. Until then, please, please, please provide some salient discussion points and we can have a debate, because what is being posted recently is the equivilant of “you guys are mean, I’m not playing any more”. Which is pathetic.

by MAS11 on Oct 15, 2010 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

Since I wrote the last post

Excuse me. But I didn’t write about Bargs’ post defense for the last game because I included him in “showing” to cut off passing lanes and such. That’s what I was pretty glad about. I’m not going to take the time to point out all the other areas where he didn’t quite make it to where he needed to be, and while he did a solid job on Brand on some possessions, I wasn’t going to turn the recap into a whole Bargs post. That is precisely the thing I was trying to avoid. There are other parts on this team and I called out WEEMS for the reason that I’m tired of talking about Bargnani ad nauseum.

That being said, I have no control about what people want to talk about after in the comments. If everyone wants to talk Bargnani, be my guest.

If you think I should have been more focused on Bargs or defended him more, that’s not going to be my intention moving forward. There is a team that plays every night and that’s what I’m aiming to focus on.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Oct 15, 2010 11:38 AM EDT up reply actions  

I question your ability to be objective

There were maybe 3-4 times where Andrea was a little slow in rotating or got caught looking the other way, so what?, I remember watching the NBA finals and seeing KG miss two rotations in a row. You know what that tells me, that even the best defensive bigs don’t get it right all the time, so why do you hold Andrea to a standard of defense that even the best defensive bigs can’t get to? It’s irrational.

“I’m not going to take the time to point out all the other areas where he didn’t quite make it to where he needed to be, and while he did a solid job on Brand on some possessions”

On some possessions? Ummm… No Andrea shut him down for the entire night. This is what I mean, why is it so hard for you guys on this site to acknowledge when he does a good job. I’m not asking you guys to ride his jock strap just give him credit when he deserves it. There was no “on some possessions”, he shut Brand down.

How can you guys constantly complain about Andrea being a ‘horrible defensive player’ but not give any credit to him when he does well. In the last game, Andrea showed me some of the best defense he has ever played. I was just taking back that it wasn’t acknowledged on this blog. Give the young man some credit.

 “There are other parts on this team and I called out WEEMS for the reason that I’m tired of talking about Bargnani ad nauseum.”

Let’s see what you wrote :

“With Weems doing his best Bargnani impression by being a virtual black hole on the offense side and missing a lot of coverages on the defense, the Raptors showed that everyone can be prone to fits of selfishness”

You had to take a dig at Andrea didn’t ya, if Andrea is leaving you so tired why include him in your evaluation of Weems?

" and missing a lot of coverages on the defense"

Absolute BS. Andrea was the best defender in that game and did a great job of his coverages. How you came away with this impression is beyond me.

 “The worst of this came from players such as Andrea Bargnani and Sonny Weems; both of whom really were the two players I’d point out as being the real sore points of the night.”

Andrea was the best defensive player on the floor but according to you he was one of the “real sore points of the night”

Makes no sense.

by even flow on Oct 15, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

On switches and on back side help, Bargnani is what he is going to be. His one-on-one defense has never been an issue. A defense against Brand doesn’t mean he was completely fine on the defensive side. But you know what, I have absolute confidence that no one else things I’ve been harsh against Bargnani and have been very much the opposite. If you want to generalize Defensive Stance’s take on things for the entire site and all of us game writers, that’s up to you, but we simply do not all share the same opinion.

Am I taking a DIG at Bargnani? If you perceive it that way, that’s fine. If anything, I just glossed over it all.

Look, how you perceive my writing is going to be all about your own perception, but I can guarantee you that few other readers thought I was being unfair.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Oct 15, 2010 2:29 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh Dear

Perhaps we should start each entry with " Bargs sucks" then move on to another point.
My other point would be concerning Babossa. It appears to me that he and Calderon might be a good guard pairing. Barbossa seems quick enough to handle which of the opposition’s 1 or 2 is the driver or slasher and Jose does a good job as a "pass first " point guard particularly with Amir. Jack should be the starter with Derozen at the 2.

by raptball on Oct 15, 2010 10:48 AM EDT reply actions  

I could support that kind of rotation, but I’d say that DeRozan needs to beat out Weems for the starting role. One of those two(DD or SW) would presumably be the other wing on the second unit.

by DW19 on Oct 15, 2010 12:42 PM EDT up reply actions  

Andrea Bargnani

Andrea is avg 8ppg and 4.5rpg, far off his last year numbers. So what , this is practice/ preseason, with a new motion offense being tried and no plays run for anyone yet, it means nothing, till it continues to happen when the season starts.

MEANWHILE, some interesting TEAM numbers after 4 games of PRESEASON @ 2-2.
Points for 106.3 vs 104.1 last year ( with JC not shooting, and AB not scoring, & no CB)
Clearly the defense doubling Andrea is leaving space for others to score.
Points against 98.5 vs 105.9 last year
Free throw attempts 35 vs 25 last year ( no Bosh ??)
Rebounds 38 vs 40.4 last year ( no Bosh ??)
Steals 12 vs 5.7 last year
Turnovers by opponents 23 vs 12.7 last year
FG% against .461% vs .468 last year
3FG% against .271 vs .366 last year

YES, IT IS ONLY 4 PRESEASON GAMES BY A NEW TEAM (7 NEW), AND A
NEW COACHING STAFF, ( and a big game v the Suns) BUT IT IS ALL POSITIVE INDICATIONS OF CHANGE SO FAR. Hopefully it continues.

by Johnn19 on Oct 15, 2010 11:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Those numbers will be much more telling at the end of preseason, when outliers like the PHX game can be absorbed by the other games, but you are correct, a positive trend is a positive trend.

by dhackett1565 on Oct 15, 2010 11:37 AM EDT up reply actions  

Yup. Which is why I’m doing my hardest not to fall into a “bargs cycle” :p

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Oct 15, 2010 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions  

Most of those numbers square with our observations of the team so far(ie more aggressive on D), but I am surprised that the Free Throw attempts have increased by 10 a game. Too bad they are shooting them so badly….

by DW19 on Oct 15, 2010 12:45 PM EDT up reply actions  

Another point, what is the pace this year compared to last year (possessions per game)? That has to be taken into account with bulk stats like these.

by dhackett1565 on Oct 15, 2010 1:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

Criticism of Barg's is fair....its the incessant one-sided blasting that is ridiculous

Franchise….like some of the other posters have noted, criticism is OK as long as its balanced and objective. Its the continuous one-sided focus that is the problem.

Take the Philly game. I was actually OK with VD’s write-up. Yeah, maybe some of the positives Bargnani showed in the game were not mentioned but overall, the write-up wasn’t as blatantly biased as I have seen. But the comments section was so typical of what we see after every game. Barg’s is a “black hole”. He has a “low basketball IQ”. He was “outplayed by Anderson”. He’s “fat”. He’s “overpaid”. He “can’t rebound”. He’s “lost on D”. He’s “uninterested”. He’s “overhyped and coddled by BC and Jay”. And my favourite was “his failure to roll” on a pick and roll. We are now at the point where we are starting to dissect individual plays in slow motion. All of this from one post game discussion.

Here we have an exciting game that we pulled out in double-overtime and all we can talk about is how brutal Bargnani is. May as well rebrand the site as BargnaniHQ. It has gotten so boring that I’m starting to look elsewhere for more objective discussions.

by cmrm123 on Oct 15, 2010 1:33 PM EDT reply actions  

Bargs is the focal point everywhere like it or not

Kurt Helin NBC SPORTS
Sep 17, 2010, 12:38 PM EDT

Last season: 40-42, and a late-season meltdown kept them out of the playoffs. (If you need to add that to your Chris Bosh hate fuel in Toronto, so be it.)
Head Coach: Jay Triano, and despite the loss in talent you can be sure his seat is getting a little warm. (So is GM Bryan Colangelo’s seat, this is the last season of his deal and he is feeling the pressure to win now, which is not great for rebuilding.)
Key Departures: I don’t know if you heard, but Chris Bosh left to head to Miami. That might have made the news. But other guys lost include Hedo Turkoglu (Raptors fans were not crying over that one), Marco Belinelli, Antoine Wright, Rasho Nesterovic,
Key Additions: Linas Kleiza, Leandro Barbosa, Julian Wright and Ed Davis.
Best case scenario: Toronto doesn’t embarrass itself, that it puts out a respectable team with some pieces to build on.

For that to happen: The Raptors need what we all have been waiting for — the real Andrea Bargnani. The blossoming of potential and hype into a player who lead a team in scoring, who can be an All-Star level player. We’re not sure that this version of Bargnani actually exists, it’s more of a Yeti — something of legend people only catch glimpses of out of the corner of their eye.
This season the excuses are gone — Chris Bosh and Sam Mitchell are gone. Bargnani has to step up now. Late last season when Bosh was out and defenses turned their attention to Bargnani he wilted. This is his time, for the Raptors sake that can’t happen again.
Linas Kleiza and Leandro Barbosa will need to prove they were more than just the role players they were given a chance to be before. Kleiza looked it during the World Championships, but proving it on an NBA level will be harder.

Also, the youth need to step forward and prove they can ball. DeMar DeRozan looked great during Summer League, and Sonny Weems shows potential as well. Jarret Jack to be steady.
Also, the Raptors need to play some semblance of defense.
More likely the Raptors will: Have nights of utter embarrassment and other nights where they look like they have something. They are going to get crushed in the paint and on the boards this season, and it’s hard to consistently win in this league when that is the case.
This season is about starting the rebuilding process, seeing what you’ve got and what works. Start reshaping the roster as you look for the next star you need. See if Bargnani really is a guy you can trust or not, them move accordingly. See if Kleiza can be a steady scorer, if DeRozan can take the next step or three. Jettison the pieces that don’t work and try new ones.
Hopefully Toronto will use all that youth and speed to get out and run. To get some easy buckets in transition. Their defense will keep them from being good, but they can be entertaining at least.
Prediction: 23 wins. It’s going to be ugly for a couple years, just try to keep focused on the big picture. Then hope that starts to come together.

by staylor on Oct 15, 2010 4:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

Kelly Dwyer's "personal agenda" on display as well...

Link

How can they get there? Well, Andrea Bargnani has to stop being the player he’s been his entire career. Which is pretty impossible to do this late in the game, even if he is still young, and even if he supposedly will be allowed to flesh things out and explore the studio space with Chris Bosh in Miami.

He’ll have to become a lights-out shooter, in order to justify how much he shoots from outside. He’s good, no doubt, but not money enough to make the lack of interior points or free throws worth it. He’ll have to find his teammates more often – and it’s not like those opportunities aren’t there when he pump fakes, drives, and has a big man or guard come over to take a charge while a teammate waits wide open underneath the basket or in the corner. And he’ll have to not be one of the worst rebounders in the NBA, again.

After one of the more miserable make-good preseasons we can remember (Bargs is currently shooting at a 23 percent clip), things aren’t exactly looking up.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 15, 2010 4:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

Exactly....

See my point above. What people don’t get (maybe because they only read this site) is that EVERY NBA expert questions Andrea Bargnani’s legitimacy as a starting NBA centre. So if you want to stop reading/hearing negative comments about Andrea Bargnani STOP FOLLOWING THE NBA.

by MAS11 on Oct 15, 2010 5:58 PM EDT up reply actions  

So.....................

Where’s Howland these days??

by HDave on Oct 15, 2010 2:54 PM EDT reply actions  

Real world has him on hiatus, probably until the season gets going unfortunately.

Adam Francis - Publisher - RaptorsHQ.com

by Adam Francis on Oct 15, 2010 4:24 PM EDT up reply actions  

He is on the RealWorld?

by McGateway on Oct 16, 2010 3:01 AM EDT up reply actions  

New Format Required

Apparently this blog (which by definition insinuates it will contain PERSONAL OPINIONS) is too much for some people to handle. To move forward so that everyone can be happy might I suggest the following format change…

PLAYER NAME Pros Cons Statistical Evidence

Rinse repeat for every player, heck even throw in how well dressed or interested Ed Davis looked from the back of the bus…

No discussions required, simple for everybody, nothing to be taken personally, and hey a lot less effort by the blog writers…

OH WAIT!? THAT’S WHAT A STAT SHEET IS FOR AND THIS IS A RAPTORS’ BLOG!!!!

SUCK IT UP PRINCESSES AND APPRECIATE THE WORK THESE GUYS PUT IN TRYING TO KEEP YOU INFORMED AND ENTERTAINED… FIND ANOTHER BLOG IF YOU DON’T LIKE IT…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 15, 2010 3:41 PM EDT reply actions  

Yes a blog is for the personal expression of opinions. I’m simply expressing my feedback that reading the same stuff over and over is getting mundane. No RaptorsHQ does not have to change because I don’t like the quality of the discussion right now. And yes, if this site continues to bore me, I will happily find other sites that are better suited for what I am looking for.

by cmrm123 on Oct 15, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions  

So essentially...

it’s WIN – WIN…

If the Raptors provide better topics for discussion it should be because they’re changing and doing well (or that things are even more tragic than they seem) and the whining stops. If not, we continue to focus on what needs to change (unfortunately mainly at the big man position) and you take your whining elsewhere…

Perfect! Everybody wins! Except the Raptors, they’re gonna lose most of the time…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 15, 2010 4:08 PM EDT up reply actions  

“If the Raptors provide better topics for discussion it should be because they’re changing and doing well”…..and I thought they won the Philly game. I must be mistaken.

“If not, we continue to focus on what needs to change (unfortunately mainly at the big man position)”….that’s great news. Didn’t realize we were only one player away. Change our centre and all our problems go away.

“and you take your whining elsewhere”….so RaptorsHQ is what it is. Feedback is not welcome. Happy to go elsewhere…..its not like there are no alternatives.

by cmrm123 on Oct 15, 2010 4:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

1. Winning one game can be accomplished even when a glaring deficiency is still the main thing taken away from the game. Hence the expression, winning isn’t everything…

We have guards that need to develop, but nothing I would say that merits any “changes” We do however have an irrefutable need for improvement with our bigs, and with the exceptions of Davis, Alabi, and Johnson (who have good potential to develop) the other bigs may need to be “changed” to have the team improve, they simply aren’t showing that they are going to develop enough…

finally. Continuing to log on and read someone’s work when you have such an apparent loathing of it really indicates that you need help… hey maybe when you find that right person to talk to about your inner self you can forward their info to Andrea and he can sort his issues out too… and I don’t really think you mean you’ll be “happy” to go elsewhere, you just finally admitted to yourself that you need to lighten up and find a friend…

Follow this link and it may help you find what you’re searching for…

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_for_the_Prevention_of_Cruelty_to_Animals

by Mikthaniel on Oct 15, 2010 5:40 PM EDT up reply actions  

Sorry, to have been completely thorough, Dorsey has decent potential too…

So we have… guards for the future, check, forwards for the future, check, and a center we can rely on, umm not that I can see based on non-magical/mythical, man-love driven evidence… hmmm

Yea I thought that was what I was getting at…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 15, 2010 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions  

cmrm123 – I defy you to find a legitimate, credible NBA blog or media that doesn’t hold the exact same evaluation of Bargnani’s talent that the writers at HQ. Maybe you can take up blogging for you and the “Bargnani Truthers” that want to ignore what every other NBA expert is saying.

by MAS11 on Oct 15, 2010 6:03 PM EDT up reply actions  

Fully agree with “NBA experts” who question whether Bargs will ever be more than a second or third option on a good team. I defy you to find one of my posts where I have suggested he is an elite player.
I will repeat myself for the last time. Criticism of Bargs is fair. Its the one-sided tunnel vision from many of this sites posters that has turned this site from the good analysis it used to provide to a place for people to go and vent so they can feel better. When I read suggestions that Anderson should play ahead of bargnani and that Dorsey has “decent potential” relative to Bargnani, then I absolutely have to laugh.
Yes writers like Carefoot, Chisholm, Arsenalist have been critical of Bargnani, but at least when they are, they are objective about it and much more interesting to read.

by cmrm123 on Oct 15, 2010 6:44 PM EDT up reply actions  

It’s pretty obvious I’m not a Bargs fan… but it will be a cold day in hell before I’d advocate playing Anderson ahead of Bargs. I’ll take 40 mpg of Bargs over one minute of Anderson any day of the week (and that should tell you something about my opinion of Anderson’s game).

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 15, 2010 6:58 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions  

Hey, at least we can cut Anderson and it will only count for 2 million against the cap. Can you say that about AB? Huh? Can you?

by McGateway on Oct 16, 2010 3:04 AM EDT up reply actions  

Now I never compared Dorsey to Barg’s at all. They don’t even play the same position. Since you brought it up though, what is the value of a really good role player (say like… Dennis Rodman) who plays within their game for the betterment of the team vs a player who, through no fault of his own, is shouldered with much more responsibility than he can handle and in the end becomes detrimental to the overall success of the team? Andrea could be a great backup to somebody worthy of filling the role management and coaches are currently bestowing on him… and that would help the team… but the fact that the coaches are making him the “go to” guy to carry the teams dreams is keeping his name at the forefront of all conversations.

If the team focuses on making somebody else their figurehead, that person will take over the bulk of the posts focus… through absolutely no control, persuading or influence of any of these fine blog writers…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 15, 2010 7:00 PM EDT up reply actions  

TANGENT ALERT!!!

I don’t know much about them personally, but if Demar and Sonny have Kobe’s work ethic and Jordan’s competitiveness, they could be HUGE in the future…

by Mikthaniel on Oct 15, 2010 6:07 PM EDT reply actions  

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