Tip-In: Long Day's Night, Raptors Beat the 76ers 119-116 in 2OT
There just was no end in sight as the Raptors went into double overtime in pre-season play. Vicious D looks at a much more thorough effort in last night's win.
Paying full price for pre-season games sucks. I've never understood it, but MLSE keeps on doing it. If you want to make the Raptors accessible to the youth of the city and grow your brand, you would naturally take the opportunity to try and fill the arena during pre-season since most people wouldn't go anyways.But if you went to last night's game, you sure got your money's worth.
In the Raptors first true home game, the final score was almost as insignificant as the extra time spent in overtime. In what can be thought of as a "return to form", the Raptors came out punching with just about all their players and scraped out a win against a fairly quick 76ers club.
And while I'll be taking my sweet time over the season to talk about how the Raptors are developing a style to match their namesake, for today, we'll just call it what it is:
Swarming Aggression.
Whether it's by gang rebounding, getting after their man, or showing aggressively in the passing lanes, the Raptors really did a boatload more against the 76ers. And granted, this is only the forth pre-season game. However, as the Raptors began to tighten up their rotations and they get towards meeting their team goals, I would like to see a better look at what styles will work with the Raptors and what styles will just be incompatible with this team.
Yesterday's game was quite the learning experience as we got to see the Raptors in some new situations. The 76ers have players such as Louis Williams and Thaddeus Young, who are players who have given the Raptors many fits over the years. Newer players such as Jrue Holiday (recording a triple double that won't count) and Evan Turner give the 76ers some raw players who add extra depth and raw talent to the team.
However, unlike Boston or Chicago, the 76ers don't really have much size, and while the Raptors didn't exactly capitalize on this fact, the Raptors certain weren't out jumped by the 76ers either. Case in point is a guy who we're going to need to perform on a more consistent basis.
DeMar DeRozan came in and gave the Raptors a much needed presence by being an attacking force for most of the game. In what was a great display of all the new moves the former Rookie, DeRozan rose to the need by going to the line and attacking the basket. Showing off a variety of power moves to get into the basket, DeMar just looked a lot more in control and ready around the rim. And while his block on Craig Brackins was quite a thing of beauty, his development of his game to include a more physical aspect is most impressive. It's something that the Raptors will need from him throughout the year. Coaxing DeRozan to make this a regular part of his game is going to be a work in progress as he seems to need to get into a comfortable zone before this part of his game comes out. I'll be very pleased to see if he can string some games together with a consistent effort.
On top of DeMar, Jarrett Jack continued to keep the boat steady with timely baskets and Leandro Barbosa gave the Raptors a little flair from the bench. Both of these players feel like a couple of the clutch players we're going to need to win those closer games and they're both players who can turn it on and score in buckets full. The rest of the team also contributed as every player scored including Ronald Dupree.
Speaking of scoring though, the Raptors managed to do it in spurts and got enough to keep up with the 76ers. It may be obvious, but the Raptors were best scoring from transition or making the quick pass. Whenever the ball seemed to stop in the hands of a player or if they allowed the 76ers to get set, the Raptors seemed to lose their way. The worst of this came from players such as Andrea Bargnani and Sonny Weems; both of whom really were the two players I'd point out as being the real sore points of the night.
With Weems doing his best Bargnani impression by being a virtual black hole on the offense side and missing a lot of coverages on the defense, the Raptors showed that everyone can be prone to fits of selfishness. And yes, both players had moments here and there where they performed well and did what was needed of them, but both also played in ways that will kill the flow of this team. You could almost feel their teammates hesitate to give either player the ball for fear that no one would get it back.
But one thing the entire Raptors team has to work on is their absolutely abysmal free throw shooting. Shooting under 60% for the game, the Raptors would have easily pulled out a win had they even shot anything near a respectable percentage. And while there's going to be a laundry list of items, the Raptors continued struggles from the charity stripe are just going to make it that much harder to win regular season games in tight situations.
As a whole though, the Raptors got into the faces of the 76ers and it's this kind of work that was completely missing the other night in Chicago. And while the Raptors couldn't find the room to separate themselves from the 76ers because of the free throw woes, they also didn't completely cave to the 76ers when Philly made their runs.
What I hope the Raptors will take out of this game is that they need to put at least this kind of effort to be competitive in the league. While there's a lot to still clean up, the energy is there and it's something that the Raptors staff will surely build on.
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“You could almost feel their teammates hesitate to give either player the ball for fear that no one would get it back. "
Good observation, saw that myself.
Pleased with the effort against a team we will be competing with.
I’d like to see exactly that happen. If AB, SW or whoever is becoming a black hole then their teamates ought to stop feeding them the ball for a few plays as a wake-up call.
how about the coach pulls them out of the game and gives someone else theie court time – isint that what triano keeps preaching this off season
Triano preaches alot of things
Hasn’t Triano been preaching a new defense since he took over from Sam Mitchell?
He didn’t pull guys out of the lineup last year, he’s not going to change over night.
He’s full of crap and that’s not going to change.
Now he’s preaching accountibilty, funny if he was doing that last year when the team was better on paper, the results would have been different.
Now that the team is destined for the lottery, he’s going to start doing things the right way?! It’s all BS.
agree with you completly
what pisses me off the most is each time Triano calls a time out and draws up a play we end up with a s#$% possesion if not a turnover most of the time…this is going back two years and not just this preseason…..
It’s strange that Weems was a black hole. Maybe he’s feeling the pressure of having a Leandro Barbosa ready to soak up minutes at the SG position and trying to overextend himself.
Bargnani a black hole on offence? Not surprising in the least. He’s barely averaged over one assist per game through four seasons. And that number has not moved even as his minutes have gone from 24 to 35 per game.
It’s not great for chemistry, but you’re right — they should stop feeding them the ball until they buy into the team concept.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 14, 2010 10:37 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed, for a guy who seems to have the ability to pass, Bargnani certainly doesn’t seem to have the inclination to do it very often.
My impression of Bargnani is that he is a guy with quite a bit of athletic ability(reasonable mobility, pretty good aim etc), but that he still doesn’t seem to understand the game of basketball beyond a very basic 1-on-1 scenario. His thought process seems to be: “if I beat my man on offense and stop him from beating me on defense then I am doing my job”. No to get all pseudo-scientific, but I’d say a big part of the reason why he sucks at things like rebound, help defense and moving the ball is that he thinks of the game in terms of 1-on-1 and not 5-on-5.
You might be onto something with that explanation…
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 14, 2010 11:01 AM EDT up reply actions
it fits with my theory of Bargnani
For me, he has a low basketball instinct.
Great players have a knack of knowing what is about to happen.. With Bargs, he’s fine 1on1. What he doesn’t have is a feel for what is happening around him. All he can do is read and then react, which makes him slow. You can almost see the read and react steps happening in his head. Experience helps in reading things quicker but it doesn’t completely make up for having the instinct to anticipate that the ball will go to X spot and reacting accordingly.
Exactly. You figure a player entering his 5th season in the league would have the EXPERIENCE to know when to pass vs. when to shoot. But with Bargs, you actually have a player whose assist rate has dropped significantly with an increase in minutes — that’s a lack of INSTINCT.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 14, 2010 12:39 PM EDT up reply actions
What the heck is Bargs supposed to do except take the ball and try to score?
I think they hesitated because they really wanted get weems and bargs going but neither were doing a good job at getting open.
Uhm, they should be looking to move the ball most of the time if they don’t have enough room to make a play. No one likes seeing these guys go make an offensive play and put up an ill advised contested/difficult shot. And in particular, Bargnani got pushed out of position but still would insist on trying to post up his man even though he had been pushed out all the way to the arc.
I don’t think that’s really rocket science.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Oct 14, 2010 9:33 AM EDT up reply actions
Agreed. You have to have confidence that if you give up the ball and then get yourself in a better position that your teamates will get the ball back to you. If Bargnani keeps that ball moving and fights for good position at some point he is going to have a high percentage shot available to him. When he is taking higher percentage shots he will start making more of them, his confidence will increase and his overall play should improve(emphasis on “should”).
The start of the game was reallly sloppy on both sides. Players were clumping up on O and guys were taking really bad shots.
I could tell when Bargnani was going to get the ball (and take a jumper) since he would actually do 2 seconds of hustling to receive the pass. Not impressed with his impact or effort level.
Seems to me pre-season is exactly the time force the issue and see if bargs can get done with a high degree of difficulty. He has to get comfortable with posting up and he’s got a chance to do it now with no risk. It’s seemed pretty obvious triano is asking them to work on specific things offensively and to get certain players a certain amount of touches…
I mean, anderson starting in the 2nd ot? come on, winning is not the primary objective here…
All of this time I have been watching him but it never hit me.
We are actually going to be seeing David Andersen playing more than a handful of minutes this year.
And this is why the infamous David Anderson post earlier this summer generated so many comments. A lot of fans thought it was an overreaction — but the scary thought when you looked at the roster was “what if this guy becomes a significant part of the rotation?”
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 14, 2010 12:44 PM EDT up reply actions
Then nobody beat him out for the position, and the Raptors simply end up with a high draft pick like so many expect.
by dhackett1565 on Oct 14, 2010 3:27 PM EDT up reply actions
Which goes back to the idea that our franchise player is probably playing college ball this year, and hopefully gets selected with one of the first three picks of the 2011 Draft. As bad as it gets this season, the glass is half full… but it has to get REALLY bad.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 14, 2010 3:31 PM EDT up reply actions
The “infamous David Anderson post” gave people a chance to vent against BC at a time when they were still mad about Bosh leaving.
If Bargnani’s play doesn’t improve as the pre-season/season go along then Anderson is going to become a rotation player by necessity and people are going to start on the revisionist history about “I told you we should have signed Dampier.”
And I don’t think Dampier was serious about signing here or he’d be in uniform already. The flirtation was probably because the Raptors had slightly more money to offer.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 14, 2010 3:32 PM EDT up reply actions
So strange, if he even plays 10-15 mpg in the playoffs he is worth vet min. And the excess over the actual min is even paid by the NBA or NBAPA I believe.
I really don’t get why he isn’t on a team. Maybe he is holding out for more money.
A vet min deal is covered 50-50 by the team and league. Of course, the cap hit (and tax hit) is in full effect for the team.
Maybe he really is trying to avoid preseason like some have suggested.
by dhackett1565 on Oct 14, 2010 4:19 PM EDT up reply actions
FAT
This was the first pre-season snore-fest I bothered to watch since there is a break in the MLB playoffs and I really couldn’t have cared less what the result was or how the team looked. However, I did notice one thing: Bargnani has suddenly become a tub of lard—he reminds me of Hedo in a sad sort of way. What happened to the definition in his arms? Where did that big ole belly come from? This guy is a true disaster.
Our two highest paid players (Bargs and Calderon) look done. I wonder if either will finish out their contracts with the Raps.
On a side note, does anyone know the salary details (ie salary in each year) for Kleiza and/or Amir Johnson?
Amir Johnson $5,000,000 $5,500,000 $6,000,000 $6,500,000 $7,000,000 $30,000,000
Linas Kleiza $4,995,000 $4,605,000 $4,600,000 $4,600,000 N/A $18,800,000
by dhackett1565 on Oct 14, 2010 12:13 PM EDT up reply actions
Some positives
Bargs one on one defense against brand was amazing, had him locked down.
The derozan swat of the glass was unreal – but someones got to get that rebound
Nice to see amir in CB old spot on those pnrs with calderon, did well once he settled down a bit
JJ can score but can’t run the team, JC can run the team but can’t score – turns out we actually need both these guys
Kleiza seems like a nice calming force and garbo like facilitator. Limited minutes means he’s hurt or Triano thinks hes ready for the regular season
Going bakc to my original preferred starting line up, how can barbosa not start? Sorry derozan, he’s just better at this point.
jj
lb
lk
aj
ab
Regarding Kleiza, let’s hope it’s the latter. Triano watched him through the worlds and training camp, he probably knows what he’ll get and wants to see what others can do.
Personally, I wouldn’t start Barbosa just because he is playing better. Barbosa has been coming off the bench for most of his career and is really good at it. That’s the role where he can give the Raptors the biggest contribution, so I wouldn’t change that. I’d make DeRozan and Weems compete for the starting 2-guard spot and give it to whoever put out more effort on defense and played more within the flow of the offence.
I agree with the logic, but on a team with this little talent and so many flaws, I just think that starting line up needs everything you can give it.
Not to mention derozan and weems might benefit more from playing against lesser players. I would include Johnson in that group, but the alternative is reggie and I’m not sure about that idea.
AJ needs to improves his offensive game
anyone notice the same – he is a bigger bellinelli when it comes to attacking the rim – circus shots at best
I was up in the 300s and Calderon looked awful. He almost lost us the game (not that it mattered), but more importantly almost cost me free pizza. Luckily regulation left us tied at 98.
Shortly after a brutal TO where it looked as though he just handed the ball to Philly, he took the ball on our final possession (starting at 28.9s), drove right off a pick to the baseline and then did a jumping toss back towards a clump of people at the free throw line. Why, in a final shot situation do you give the ball to Jose instead of DD/Barbosa? It boggles the mind.
Thankfully, Jay pulled Calderon and Jack saved the day and made at least one clutch 3 to push it into 2OT. I’m beginning to come around to the idea that last season was not a fluke and that he will actually have a pretty strong shooting % again this season.
The play where Calderon threw that terrible pass back to the free throw line — and make no mistake, it was an awful decision — was a pick and roll play. And the big man he was running the pick and roll with failed to roll to the basket. I’m not going to even mention the big man by name because I will just get skewered for having a personal agenda by his oversensitive fanboys :P
Jarrett Jack and Amir Johnson ran a similar play in the 2nd OT which resulted in an easy dunk for Amir.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 14, 2010 10:23 AM EDT up reply actions
I just thought it was risky. Priorities are to make sure we get our shot, while minimizing the time Philly has to take their own. There’s a reason teams run iso at the end of games. Extra passing complicates things and even still the roller might be relying on a whistle to call a possible foul.
Instead of giving the ball to a quick, athletic guy with a variety of moves, we ran pick-and-roll with a fairly vanilla guard who wouldn’t have even been able to get a quality shot off if the pass wasn’t there (which he ended up forcing anyway). On top of that Philly caught that bad pass with more than 5s left, called timeout and got to run the play they wanted. We were bailed out, because their play of choice was equally bad (some random dribbling around followed by a closely guarded fallaway 3).
A couple of great points:
- With or without the turnover, Calderon left 5 secs on the clock (that’s a helluva lot of time in the NBA)
- In preseason/regular season, I’m all for the iso at the end of the game (I don’t think it works as well in the playoffs); but at the same time, you need that guy who is going to be able to get a quality look or get to the line. Who is that guy on the Raptors?
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 14, 2010 10:51 AM EDT up reply actions
Generally you want something that gets the ball into your scorer’s hands with space to operate instead of some long-developing play. I say iso, but what I really mean is a play with a low turnover chance and high chance of getting a good shot off. Can be achieved in different ways, iso is just the simplest.
Ideally, that shot goes up with about 5 seconds left, bounces around and even if Philly gets a rebound it they have about 3s or less left. I have faith that Derozan or Barbosa could have put up a clean shot that would have at least rattled the rim.
I think we have to look at Derozan to be our closer. I didn’t catch much of Kleiza, but I don’t remember him as a really dynamic player (despite his general effectiveness). Derozan is our most athletic player, is much stronger than last year and has good balance. He has shown increased range and a willingness to use power moves in the lane this season.
There was a play in one of the overtimes last night, where Derozan either had fumbled the ball first or grabbed a loose rebound in the lane right in front of the net. Impressively, he used his speed to get to the spot first, bumped the Philly big and used that bump to make a firm stop, gathered, spun and elevated off 2 feet for an easy hook shot. Not an end of game sequence, but it shows just how many good things he could naturally do in a scrambling situation to create a good shot for himself.
"I will just get skewered for having a personal agenda by his oversensitive fanboys :P"
It was Anderson, wasn’t it? You can say it.
It wasn’t because the big failed to roll. He rolled and was wide open – the ball was thrown over his head and behind him. You said yourself it was a lousy pass.
Why pretend? All one has to do is read your tiresome, predictable posts.
by JCCanuck on Oct 14, 2010 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Apparently you didn’t even watch the game or at least that particular play I was referring to because your response makes no sense. Bargnani was the player who failed to roll and the ball was thrown over Amir Johnson’s head. Johnson didn’t set the pick. We’re talking about two different players here.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 14, 2010 12:48 PM EDT up reply actions
It’s so obvious when you reach for reasons to blame Bargnani. The dude didn’t have a good shooting night – agreed. He chipped in with 8 boards and 4 blocks though and played some above average defence all night. In the final overtime period he made two straight shots and then drew a foul (and went on to miss both FTs, but still). And before I forget, he showed some good hustle when he almost tipped in Derozan’s final FT miss that would’ve won us the game. It’s so easy to focus on the negatives, I’ve never heard one positive comment about Bargnani out of you. You’re choosing to blame HIM when it was Calderon who didn’t have the presence of mind to notice he didn’t roll. That was definitely a lousy pass and to say that was Bargnani’s fault proves more than ever that you have a personal agenda :)
Oh and, David Andersen did NOT outplay Bargnani yesterday. You’ll just call me a fanboy but at least I can acknowledge Bargnani’s faults. I’m a realist. I know he’s sucked, but I remain optimistic because he showed glimpses of good form last night. You, on the other hand, choose to blind yourself from anything positive and cling to everything bad about him.
That’s BS, DS (See what i did there).
Calderon’s pass was terrible — he doesn’t get away from any blame for that. But not rolling to the basket is yet another indication of the lazy, disengaged play I’ve come to expect from Bargs. Please continue to be excited by a 7-foot centre who needed two overtimes to produce 8 rebounds and 22 shots to score 14 points.
But at least we can agree on one thing — David Anderson did not outplay Bargnani and probably never will. Anderson is a poor man’s… no, scratch that, a homeless man’s version of Bargnani. I’d rather see Anderson banished to the far end of the bench.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 14, 2010 1:38 PM EDT up reply actions
"Calderon’s pass was terrible — he doesn’t get away from any blame for that. But not rolling to the basket is yet another indication of the lazy, disengaged play I’ve come to expect from Bargs"
was that pass not to Amir?
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Oct 14, 2010 1:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Oversensitive fanboys
.
I think the fanatics in this situation, are really the “anti-fanboys” or “haters”, depending on what word works for you.
.
Never-the-less, it’s difficult to debate someone (like Bargs) on this site, when a fans’ opinion (not a fanatical opinion either), is constantly being inferred as unintelligent & experiencing a damaged B-Ball IQ.
.
by RapthoseLeafs on Oct 14, 2010 3:54 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
Reggie Evans
They need to trade this guy ASAP. His free-throw disease is spreading through the team.
Seriously, it wasn’t that long ago that the Raptors were one of the top charity stripe teams (if not in number, at least in %). Now, in 2010, they may be in the running for one of the worst in terms of %.
Is there a vaccine for Reggie Evans Free Throw Disease? Or at least a 5K run in support of the cause?!
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 14, 2010 12:49 PM EDT up reply actions
Man....
all the talk this offseason was wanting to see improved defense (from alot of players), rebounding, agressiveness
And the defense has been, dare I say it, good. They’ve showed effort and hustle.
The Raps win (preseason), play a solid game, and still so much nit picking on little things.
Not to point people out but I’m looking at you defensive stance. Has your stance suddenly changed?
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Oct 14, 2010 1:51 PM EDT reply actions
The Raptors were outrebounded 55-50 in the Philly game, 44-22 vs. Chicago, and 41-35 vs. Boston. They had 4 of their 5 projected starters in the game — with a lead I might add — against guys who might not even make the Celtics’ final roster and eventually lost.
I like what I saw out of Jarrett Jack, Leandro Barbosa and even Amir Johnson last night. But the rest leaves a lot to be desired.
And the big piece being overlooked is that if the front office and coaching staff fails to hold certain players accountable, all that effort and hustle that you described is going to go out the window because guys will tune out the coaches and do their own thing.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 14, 2010 2:34 PM EDT up reply actions
Sorry
forgot Toronto play Boston last night… guess I was watching another game?
You are sitting here tearing apart a win on a solid effort, and then saying its because they didn’t beat Boston 5 days ago? Or got outrebounded by the Bulls the night before?
“all that effort and hustle that you described is going to go out the window because guys will tune out the coaches and do their own thing.”
.. tearing apart a good effort because of something that has not, and may not, even happen? Please. Worry about that when it actually happens.
I’m not saying this team is close to perfect, yes there is alot to be desired. But this is a team many projected to be the worst in the east (if not league) this year, and suddenly they aren’t looking like that (not to say this is a playoff team). Doing alot of things they didn’t do last year. So far playing beyond what I assumed (and maybe this is where I’m wrong) peoples expectations. Is this not a positive?
Maybe its this whole disillusioned fan thing… so used to bitching and complaining that they can’t stop. Can’t get beyond the negatives to see the positives.
If this team was the Boston Celtics, or Lakers (or any other contending or deep playoff team)I could understand. But there not.. and nobody is expecting them to be.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Oct 14, 2010 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs
This response is a little bizarre considering you made a general comment about defence and rebounding, and I responded.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 14, 2010 3:16 PM EDT up reply actions
yeah I guess you can look at it that way
I mean you did comment on rebounding.. and fairly
you responded to defense with nothing (again the one thing you harped about all last year and offseason and are getting now)
and you responded to aggressiveness/effort/hustle with an assumption about something that hasn’t happened yet.
So tearing apart a team after a solid effort makes sense.
by Not so Friendly Stranger on Oct 14, 2010 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions
Discussions on this site have gotten way too predictable
Win or lose, it doesn’t matter. Comments always the same. “Bargs sucks”…“no he doesn’t”. “Raps suck”…“No they don’t”. I think I’ll head over to Raptors Republic for post games from now on where the discussions at least are a little more varied and interesting.
Which is funny cause I actually liked last nights game..it was exciting, great hustle, it was just fun to watch but by reading this post and some of the comments you would think we got smoked is this how its gonna be all season us maybe winning games with great effort from EVERYBODY that played and still have something to bitch about? Its becoming a I hate barg and calderon site and I don’t know why..a lot of u are all singing jacks priases “ah he saved the game glad Jose got benched etc.” well where was jack the night before against the bulls? Jose totally played better and the offence ran better when Jose was playing but no one bashed jack. It just seems even of bargs or Jose play even a sniff better people with their hate for both guys will still diss them.and I just don’t understand why. Yes bargs didn’t play too well again 6-22 isn’t a good shooting night but you know what he STILL got 8 rebounds and 4 block shots I don’t care if it went into 6 overtimes that’s still decent production. I didn’t even see to much props for DD here who I thought played a great game too..getting to the line just being aggressive. If he can continue to do this he’ll have a great year.
by sherwin316 on Oct 14, 2010 7:20 PM EDT via mobile reply actions
Bargs and Pressure
Bargs definitely had his best game so far which I attribute, at least partially, to the anger from fans and media (and likely coaches and the GM behind the scenes) at the disgraceful defensive efforts put on by this guy on most nights throughout his career. Whether he likes it or not, the pressure is on him now in a big way for the obvious reason that Bosh is gone and Bargs has nowhere to hide. He simply must step up his game big time or the Raps will lose 60 games or so this year, and Bargs will be pilloried in this city. Bargs has been coddled and enabled by Colangelo and Jay, but enough is enough, it is time for him to “man up” as they say and for the coaches in particular to demand effort from him, every possession, every night. Frankly, I think Bargs might be up for the challenge. Crack the whip Carlesimo and let’s see if we can get this horse to the winner’s circle

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