Tip-In: Toronto Raptors' Post-Game Report - Help Wanted
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jan 21, 2010 7:30 AM EST
43 comments
Chris Bosh dropped in a career-high 44 points but he got precious little help as the Toronto Raptors dropped a 113 to 107 decision to the Milwaukee Bucks. Franchise breaks down one frustrating loss for the Dinos...
"It's a little frustrating," "You try as hard as you can, but you still come up short. It seems to be happening a lot this year, but I don't know what else to do. I'm just going to keep playing."
Those words were spoken post-game by none other than the Toronto Raptors' Chris Bosh, ye of franchise player ilk who had just finished dropping a career-high 44 points on the Milwaukee Bucks along with 12 rebounds and 4 assists.
If you're a Raptors fan, they aren't exactly the type of words you want to hear from a player many are speculating will seek greener pastures this summer, south of the border.
Unfortunately with each loss like last night's to Milwaukee, it's getting harder and harder to blame CB4 for making statements like this.
The simple fact is that in yesterday evening's 113 to 107 loss, none of Toronto's big names showed up besides Mr. Bosh.
Not Andrea Bargnani, whose 10th point came on a meaningless 3-pointer with the game already out of reach.
Not Hedo Turkoglu, who despite hitting some key shots in the 4th quarter was again, an ugly 5 of 14 from the field.
Not Jarrett Jack, who had a measly 6 points.
And while he's not exactly a "big name," Toronto's other starter, DeMar DeRozan, had but 2 points himself.
No surprise then that despite solid contributions from Amir Johnson, Jose Calderon and even Antoine Wright, Bosh's 44 and 12 wasn't enough to get the W. The Raptors kept things close in the second half, after leading for a good chunk of the first, but they couldn't get stops when needed, or get enough offence from their vaunted gunslingers.
To make matters worse, this loss wasn't simply on the players not performing. Jay Triano also has a lot of explaining to do for inexplicably going back to Andrea Bargnani late in the game despite his shooting woes on the night, sacrificing the rebounding and hustle that Amir Johnson was providing.
The result was immediately apparent:
| Andrea Bargnani enters the game for Amir Johnson | 101-103 | ||
| 2:33 | 101-103 | Ersan Ilyasova enters the game for Francisco Elson | |
| 2:33 | Chris Bosh makes free throw 1 of 1 | 102-103 | |
| 2:17 | 102-103 | Carlos Delfino misses layup | |
| 2:16 | 102-103 | Ersan Ilyasova offensive rebound | |
| 2:15 | 102-103 | Ersan Ilyasova misses layup | |
| 2:15 | 102-105 | Luc Richard Mbah a Moute makes tip shot | |
| 2:15 | 102-105 | Luc Richard Mbah a Moute offensive rebound | |
| 2:02 | Luc Richard Mbah a Moute blocks Hedo Turkoglu's layup | 102-105 | |
| 2:02 | Toronto defensive rebound | 102-105 | |
| 1:50 | 102-105 | Ersan Ilyasova misses 16-foot jumper | |
| 1:49 | Hedo Turkoglu defensive rebound | 102-105 | |
| 1:40 | Antoine Wright misses 24-foot three point jumper | 102-105 | |
| 1:39 | 102-105 | Brandon Jennings defensive rebound | |
| 1:28 | 102-105 | Brandon Jennings misses layup | |
| 1:28 | 102-107 | Ersan Ilyasova makes tip shot | |
| 1:28 | 102-107 | Ersan Ilyasova offensive rebound | |
| 1:28 | Hedo Turkoglu shooting foul (Ersan Ilyasova draws the foul) | 102-107 | |
| 1:28 | 102-108 | Ersan Ilyasova makes free throw 1 of 1 | |
| 1:28 | Toronto 20 Sec. timeout | ||
And that was all she wrote.
The 7-0 run that Milwaukee immediately went on when Andrea entered was made even more egregious by the fact that as you can see above, not one play was run for Chris Bosh during that entire time.
Not that he was having a career night or anything.
And Andrew Bogut, who man-handled the Raps down low all night, had just picked up his sixth foul, leaving the likes of Francisco Elson and Ersan Ilyasova to contain CB4 for the remaining four minutes. I'm not saying that Toronto was definitely on the way to a W, but with Bogut out, Hedo hitting some shots, and Bosh having the night he was having, things were at the very least setting up for a very close finish.
Only Andrea promptly allows two offensive rebounds and the Bucks were off and running, never to look back.
As a viewer, it was incredibly infuriating to watch.
Toronto had used Amir Johnson's energy, along with Bosh's scoring, to get within 2 points. The team simply didn't need Andrea, especially because Hedo Turkoglu finally worked off the pizza he had been scarfing pre-game, and dropped in some clutch baskets. All Triano's substitution did was weaken the Dinos on D, and throw off the rhythm on O. The ball should have been dropped into Bosh's lap every time down the court and so to witness the likes of Antoine Wright shooting 24 footers down the strech instead was just nauseating.
Therefore, instead of a hard-fought, grind-it-out-win, which this one promised to be from the tip, the Raps now find themselves in 7th in the East, a game under .500, and suddenly searching for some answers. The whole "winning 10 of their last 13" thing was nice, the reality is the team has suddenly lost four of its last six.
More importantly, if you're a fan of Toronto keeping Chris Bosh this summer, this is yet another loss that doesn't bode well for your dream scenario. Matt Devlin can laud Andrea Bargnani all he wants but I'm sorry, the consistency still isn't there. He's probably never going to be a dominant rebounder or major defensive presence so he has to be an overwhelming factor on offense, especially on nights where Bosh badly needs help. Until Bargs performs consistently at a high level even just on offense, then it's hard to say the grass isn't necessarily greener on the Miami or Chicago side.
This goes double of course for Hedo Turkoglu.
Prior to the start of the season I commented that really, Toronto should have just kept Carlos Delfino, someone I referred to as Turk 1.0 yet at a fraction of the price.
Last night only echoed my point as Delfino dropped in 22 points to go with 8 rebounds, 4 assists and a steal.
Aren't these the numbers that fans expected from Turk when he was acquired?
Sure, that's not a regular night for Delfino, but comparing his season averages and PER with that of Turkoglu, unfortunately there just isn't a huge difference; not big enough to justify their salary differential in any event. Hedo's shooting 34 per cent in January so far, and if you take out his 6 of 12 performance against the Magic it gets REALLY ugly.
So there you have it.
Last night was another high for Bosh, but another low for a team that's talking about being a solid 5th or 6th seed in the Eastern Conference playoffs. As losses like this keep piling up, it certainly is going to make the trade deadline very interesting. Bryan Colangelo is going to have to decide if he's willing to check his ego, admit that Hedo ain't working, that Andrea still isn't there yet, and try to get CB4 some more help.
Because as we saw tonight, Bosh, a player who until this season I never felt was quite deserving of a max contract., is giving 110 per cent. This season he's left little doubt as to his value to this team, and last night was yet another example as he nearly willed his club to victory with his performance alone.
However basketball is a team game, and until Bosh's teammates start consistently giving him a hand, unfortunately more losses like this are likely to follow, and who knows if one of them ends up being the final nail in the "it's time for me to play somewhere else" coffin.
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There really is enough blame to go around
As far as I’m concerned we lost this game in the third quarter when Milwaukee out scored us 32 to 22. That was when they made their push and we started to come off the tracks. It was also during this time that Bosh started jacking up low percentage jump shots. He missed three of them during this stretch. I know he had 44 and 12 and I’m not trying to put this loss on him. Hedo had ANOTHER horrid shooting night and allowed Carlos Delphino to put up 22 and 8. Bargs was none existant and the rest of the starting five weren’t much help. Again, my boy Triano refused to reward solid play and pulled Amir after he helped us get back into the game. My point is there is plenty of blame to go around. I don’t want to hear any crap about how Bosh is going to leave because he can’t get any help in Toronto. Let’s not lose sight of the fact that despite a career night in points from CB4, EVERYONE had a part in this loss.
by Posterized on Jan 21, 2010 8:13 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I put that in the Rapid Recap immediately post game, that indeed there was plenty of blame to go around. Bosh’s D down the stretch on Bogut wasn’t exactly “lock-down” either, but it’s hard to fault him too much considering the effort he had to put up at the other end.
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jan 21, 2010 10:22 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
you would force your game if the rest of your team are practically dead logs
by Scores on Jan 21, 2010 12:59 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I don't know about that
If I were an NBA player who was asking for a max deal next year, I would like to think that I would have the presence of mind to go with what works while the other team is making a push. In Bosh’s case that means getting to the bucket and drawing fouls in an attempt to take away the other team’s momentum. No argument here, Bosh was on fire on offense last night and he did his usual damage on the boards. But I don’t like that he tends to have brain farts during critical times in the game.
Of course my entire argument is completely null and void if some of the other players pull their heads out of their rectums and offer some assistance. Which of course was the bigger problem last night. I’m just nit picking Bosh’s game because I woke up this morning to head lines (on TV and the net) about Bosh’s disappointment in the team and how he’s going to bolt next season.
by Posterized on Jan 21, 2010 2:52 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Think that’s a completely valid point Posterized. If the rest of the team, especially the starters, give ANY sort of help to Bosh, then suddenly we’re not putting CB4 under the microscope.
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jan 21, 2010 4:13 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Back to back
This team does not do well playing two games in a row. Am I wrong in thinking that playoff games are often back to back?
If they are, this team does not have the endurance to handle a playoff schedule.
by RT... on Jan 21, 2010 8:28 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Even if playoff games are back to back, its the same for both teams, unlike this game where the Rapters were on the second game of the back to back and the Bucks were waiting for them at home.
by siggian on Jan 21, 2010 10:06 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
It’s hard to even think about playoffs, which require a sustained intensity, after seeing performances like this…
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jan 21, 2010 10:18 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
when are there ever back to back playoff games??
by PNUTZ on Jan 21, 2010 10:54 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Playoff games are never back to back. I don’t remember seeing one in the past 10 years. The finals used to have back to backs, but not any more.
by Aaron Craig on Jan 21, 2010 1:42 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
The Score
the sport network was showing how little intensity Hedo was showing in the 4th quarter.
- at the 9:00 min in the 4th quarter he was standing STILL for at least 3 seconds grabbing his hip and let Jerry stackhouse jacked up a 3 pointer.
- Why was he trying to forced going to the rim when he is definitely not strong or fast to do it in the final stretch of the game was beyond my imagination he either missed or lost the ball when driving to the rim.
- at min 1:30 in the 4th quarter the Milwaukee was attacking and Hedo again was just standing grabbing his hip when he notice someone was going to the rim he committed an useless foul
- Last few seconds of the game, he missed a layup and he didn’t bother to get back on defence!
I think he still riding his Hip injury from last year and is trying to play through it.
-
by elpikiman on Jan 21, 2010 9:16 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
He keeps saying he’s healthy, but like you say, it’s hard to imagine that considering his “effort” on D at times. However maybe this gets back to what a beat reporter told me in Vegas regarding his conversation with Magic GM Otis Smith; the team wasn’t going to miss Hedo’s D…
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jan 21, 2010 10:21 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
utes
I thought the game was killed when Ridnour dropped 4 points in about 3 seconds off 2 turnovers. Seriously … inbound the ball people!!
by utes on Jan 21, 2010 9:38 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
That was huge, and another example of how Toronto just seems to cramp up down the stretch.
I can’t even imagine if Bosh ONLY put up 25 and 10…this one would have been over very early.
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jan 21, 2010 10:19 AM EST up reply actions 0 recs
winning one of the Boston Games the Indy game Last nights game and one other of the stinkers they lost Boston would of been in reach. Lost opportunities sure do hurt in this league
by Davl on Jan 21, 2010 10:29 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Igoudala
There are reports that phili is willing to move igoudala…. they need a PG badly… jose and somthing for igy?
by Blanco on Jan 21, 2010 10:35 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
I like Jose, but I’d move him to acquire someone like Iguodala. In fact, this trade works, even though it means parting with DeMar.
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jan 21, 2010 4:25 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Tempting
Do we trade our potential futur for a guy in his prime? Iggy is an 18p 7r 6a guy right now. Definitely worth consideration.
by Posterized on Jan 21, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Trade deadline should be very interesting...
…especially if Toronto is middling slightly below .500.
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jan 21, 2010 4:37 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
This + Hedo for Andre Miller
Miller + Iguodala back court tandem would be rad.
by Cpt. Tiddlywinks on Jan 22, 2010 5:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Start of the fourth quarter – it was their bench against our starters and we couldn’t gain any advantage in almost 6 minutes, Ridnour/Bell/Ilyasova’s defense was key. Bosh had two bad possessions the whole game and that came in the fourth where we gave him the ball too far away from the basket and expected him to perform miracles. Situational offense on this team is terrible.
by Arsenalist on Jan 21, 2010 10:52 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
So True
Situational offense on this team is terrible.
Some of this has to be chalked up to coaching unfortunately…
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jan 21, 2010 4:28 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
OK guys, back away from the ledge...
We all know that this team is not a top team in the league. Nobody should be surprised that they lost this game or the one before it. It’s gonna happen. Mediocre teams lose to bad teams from time to time. That’s what separates them from the big boys.
For every Mavs game, we’re going to have a Bucks game.
Was I upset while watching this game? Hell yeah! But I’m not going to freak out over it either. Over that last month or so, we’ve generally seen an improvement from this team so I’m going to overlook the occasional hiccup because progress is seldom smooth.
Mind you, I think Triano needs to consider laying a few DNPs on Hedo because I think he’s got one of those nagging injuries that won’t prevent him from playing but is affecting how he plays.
by siggian on Jan 21, 2010 11:55 AM EST reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. Bench Hedo for a while. What do you really have to lose? Maybe Brian Burke will pick up his contract and we could get Kaberle. Crazy!!
by PNUTZ on Jan 21, 2010 12:22 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Questions for Jay Triano
Why no Belinelli when DeRozan, Wright, Weems, were struggling to score?
Why Bargnani, when he was struggling to score and not rebounding, only 3 def rbs ?
Why Calderon only 21 minutes, when he was the only player supporting Bosh
with scoring (16pts/5assists) in only 21 mins, second leading scorer, while Jack was struggling?
The only players who gave maximum effort were Bosh, Johnson, and Calderon.
by Johnn19 on Jan 21, 2010 12:42 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Answer to one of your questions...
“Why no Belinelli…?”
Doug Smith asked “someone privy to the decision” (read: assistant coach) the very same question and here was the answer:
"When he was out there, Jerry Stackhouse got five offensive rebounds in three minutes, that’s why."
Pretty good answer…
by MAS11 on Jan 21, 2010 12:58 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
I applaud Triano nailing Belinelli to the bench, but he has to be consistent with all his players. Does the team get the message if Belinelli is benched for some terrible play yet Hedo gets to loaf around the court game in and game out contributing nothing? All that’s going to do is create a rift between the players and the coach.
by Mistafitz on Jan 21, 2010 1:01 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Thank you!
It takes no balls to bench a player like Belinelli.
But you need balls to bench a $50-million man like Hedo if he’s not contributing or Bargnani if he’s not working on the glass.
Time to nut up, Jay.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jan 21, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
re Belinelli, I can see making a point, but is it worth losing the game, because more scoring was needed to offset the TEAM poor defensive rebounding, and no one but Jose was contributing? Belinelli’s role is to score 1st, not rebound 1st. If he wants to make an example why not sit Andrea who had as many defensive rebounds as Jose, three.
by Johnn19 on Jan 21, 2010 1:17 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
That was my issue too. And not just in terms of Marco, Weems barely saw the floor too despite being the antithesis to Belinelli in terms of style of play. Rotational decisions are downright bizarre at times.
However looks like we’re headed to the ACC tomorrow night now so we’ll ask Jay some questions of our own.
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jan 21, 2010 4:30 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
PG play for the last 5 games, 2 wins, 3 losses (3 winnable games)
Jarret Jack 24.8 min .435FG% ,.333FG3%, avg. 4.2 assists, 8.6 points
Jose Calderon 24.4 min .509FG%, .583FG3%, avg. 6 assists, 14 points.
Who is the starter, and who is the back-up ???
by Johnn19 on Jan 21, 2010 12:58 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Neither are starters
That’s the problem, they are both back-up point guards.
by even flow on Jan 21, 2010 1:54 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Agreed. Both great back-ups…
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jan 21, 2010 4:31 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Once again, it's not that they lost....
It’s how they lost. I expected a lack of energy on the second half of a back to back, and I knew that Bosh and Bargnani played alot of minutes the night before, and jump shooting teams with no legs generally struggle, so I really wasn’t expecting much.
However, they didn’t lose this game because of those reasons. The game was lost because Triano:
-doesn’t seem to recognize who on his team is playing well and who isn’t;
-he doesn’t seem to recognize matchups on the floor;
-he doesn’t know how to utilize his deep roster (especially in back to backs)
-he doesn’t know how to utilize his timeouts most effectively (especially in back to backs)
His removal of Johnson for Bargnani was stupid, plain and simple. Rasho gets no minutes in a game where Bogut is killing us? Weems hardly sees the court? Why not use a timeout if you’re worried about guys getting tired? Triano seems to want to hoard as many as he possible can until the end of the game so he can draw up a bunch of Hedo Iso’s at the top of the key.
Somebody has got to straighten Triano out. He’s costing them games with these decisions.
by Mistafitz on Jan 21, 2010 1:24 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
What game were you watching?
How on gods green earth can you give any credit to the human pylon Jose Calderon?
The guy let Jennings and Ridnour prance into the lane without any resistance. He just absolutely sucks on defense and causes everyone else to be a out of position.
That was the biggest problem last night. When our PG’s offer no resistance to their man driving the lane it causes our big’s to rotate and give up rebounding position. Watch the 4th again and pay particular attention to Jose. The three quick fouls on Andrea were a direct result of Jose offering no resistance to Ridnour. LR just dribbled right into the lane and Andrea had to pick him up. The worst part was Jose does this completely moronic thing of following the player after they drive by him and not picking up the rotation, he literally chases them and trys to guard them from behind. I don’t think I did a great job explaining it but watch Jose next time, it will leave you confused.
“Only Andrea promptly allows two offensive rebounds and the Bucks were off and running, never to look back.”
Sorry Franchise, those 2 rebounds were completely and 100% on one Hedo Turkoglu. The first one, Bosh and Andrea had their man sealed and Turks man comes flying in from the right side. The second, as Jack Armstrong said were a result of bosh and mainly Turk being slow on the rotations.
I do agree with you though that Triano showed poor judgment in taking Amir out, he should have stuck with that lineup but at the same time the Bucks did make some substitutions, so i’m sure that was a factor.
by even flow on Jan 21, 2010 2:21 PM EST reply actions 0 recs
Glad you brought this up re: Hedo’s fault. The first board I distinctly remember being Andrea’s fault but the second was a Hedo issue…sort of.
Here’s the thing with Amir. When he’s in the game, even if he doesn’t get the rebound right away, he keeps tapping it up and there’s almost always a bit of a scrum for the ball. Sometimes the Raps get it, sometimes they don’t. But the advantage of having someone who can do that is that it allows players like Hedo, who are terrible at getting position under the rim, to react to the situation and get there.
Watch next time Amir’s out there. I find the whole Raptors’ team benefits from his length and athleticism as opposed to Bargs or even Bosh.
As for Jose, I really didn’t think he was the main issue last night. I’ve never lauded his defence, he’s always been a bit of a pylon, but last night was no worse than other evenings. Jennings was horrible from the field so not sure I’d say he let Jennings prance into the lane over and over. Ridnour was a killer for sure, but Jose’s lax D could have been overcome by some more scoring from the likes of Hedo, Jack, DeRozan and others…
by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jan 21, 2010 4:36 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
Fast point guards
Good observation about Amir. I was surprised when Jay took him out, mainly because that unit seemed to have a good rhythm going and seemed to match up well against the Bucks at that point. The only thing that makes sense to me is he was trying to create room for Bosh to Iso?
About the first rebound :
102-103 Carlos Delfino misses layup
2:16 102-103 Ersan Ilyasova offensive rebound
2:15 102-103 Ersan Ilyasova misses layup
2:15 102-105 Luc Richard Mbah a Moute makes tip shot
2:15 102-105 Luc Richard Mbah a Moute offensive rebound
This is a little misleading, Delfino’s shot was blocked by bosh and it unfortunately deflected to Ilyasova. I can live with that, the following put back was Turks cover and had he done his job Toronto would have secured the rebound. Mbah was going up as Andrea was landing from contesting Ilyasova’s shot so i find it hard to find him at fault here.
As for Jose, i guess it’s just becomes more pronounced when we face lighting quick point guards and for sure he wasn’ the only one. I don’t want to see him leave though, I really like him off the bench and with the added benefit of making it easier to manage his match ups it seems like a better fit. Watching it again he wasn’t as bad i first thought but that Ridnour thing was still horrible to watch! Now, what to do with Jack?
by even flow on Jan 21, 2010 9:11 PM EST up reply actions 0 recs
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