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The Pitfalls of Statistical Analysis: Basketball vs. Baseball

Jorge Garbajosa is a player that embodied "intangibles".

Jorge Garbajosa is a player that embodied "intangibles".

Vicious D takes a two-part look at how statistics are used in basketball and how they can sometimes be problematic, ineffective, or misleading (but seldom boring).  In this first part, he contrasts two opposite ends of the statistics spectrum: Basketball and Baseball.

Star-divide

Stats.

Fantasy players love them, apologists ignore them, and just about everyone acknowledges their usage in analysis. 

But just how useful are statistics in a game like basketball?

When I was starting out in university as a Computer Science major at the University of Waterloo, statistics was a class that was required, but it was interesting and showed me a new way to quantify various objects in life.  When I later switched my major to Economics, statistical analysis was required to analyze trends and figure out the "big picture".  However, there were also a couple harsh lessons that almost everyone in my first year class took away from the year:

 

 

  1. Statistics can lie.  Which statistics we chose to measure and which ones we choose to ignore will often paint us a picture that can be detrimental to our analysis.  It is always preferable to have a larger sample size and more measurements, but it is sometimes unavailable or too time-consuming and cost-prohibitive to do so.  
  2. Statistics will be used to lie.  What we choose to show to people from available statistics becomes important as people have an inherit trust in numbers.  How we present the numbers also affects how people perceive a situation.

There's little that we can do to dissuade the second point.  People inherently believe numbers thrown at them.  Numbers are often used to great effect as they are seen as undeniable truths and are factual cornerstones. On the flip side numbers can be far from objective if used improperly.  To combat this, we need to be aware of how people choose their numbers to create their "skewed" statistics.

However, it's the first point that I wish to bring to your attention. 

Basketball is first of all, one of the harder sports to analyze.  We, of course, have the standard statistics available from the NBA.com websites which are replicated across other sites such as Yahoo Sports.  For further statistical analysis, sites such as Wages of Wins, Hollinger's ESPN Statistical Analysis, and 82games.com all provide their own unique look at the numbers breakdown.  I'll be covering the individual statistics and their effectiveness next week, but as for why it's so difficult to analyze basketball, we'll have to look at another sport: baseball. 

On MLB's own page for Suzuki Ichiro, we can find 29 offensive statistic categories and 13 defensive/fielding stats.  On the other hand, Chris Bosh's page on NBA.com displays 15 combined offensive and defensive stats.  It's quite a staggering difference. It can be easy to argue that these two sports are not a fair comparison as they're as different as apples are to oranges.  However, baseball is the perfect sport to illustrate why basketball statistics can sometimes be flawed.

In baseball, we have a sport that is clearly defined between offensive and defensive categories.  What one player does when he is out in the field or at bat seldom affects the other.  A baseball player's role is well defined.  When you are hitting the ball, you can measure certain kinds of statistics that only pertain towards hitting the ball and when you're running the bases, there's another set of statistics that only measure your effectiveness at running the bases.  In fact, it can be argued that baseball is a team sport that relies on the individual performances of players rather than players all working together at the same time, all the time.  A play can be broken down into a series of moves being passed from one player to the next.  For example, a pitcher pitches out so a catcher can take the pitch and then toss it to the short stop covering second base in order to tag a runner trying to steal second.  Each player has a part to play, but statistically, each player's contribution to the play is compartmentalized.  Their role before and after their individual contributions to the play have little bearing upon the success or failure of the play.  

In contrast, basketball is a sport that is always reliant on the other players on the court who are with you at the same time.  On offense, having a clear lane to the hoop for an easy basket relies on your 3 point threats drawing their defenders out to the perimeter, a perfect pick set by your big man, and a partial clear out under the basket so your wing can have room to score.  Each player has a part to play at the same time in the possession, but in the stats registered in NBA.com, we only ever concentrate on the points scored or the assist made.  Defense can be just as light on statistical analysis as a rebound grabbed by one player is reliant on having multiple players box out their man.  In fact, it's not surprising that the champions of the NBA teams that are the best collection of players that have learned to work together for a common goal.  It wasn't until Kobe Bryant learned to play with his team that the Lakers won their championship, and it's why a superstar player like LeBron James has still yet to wear a championship ring.

It's also why analysts in basketball often talk about the "intangibles" that players bring to the game.  Jorge Garbajosa is a recent Raptors example.  Despite having fairly average numbers across the board, Garbajosa brought things that we still talk about to this day and was a big factor in ensuring the Raptors won the Atlantic Division in 2007.  His ability to play more athletic players, his will to go after loose balls, and his overall smarts for what to do in various defensive situations all led up to statistics that are not regularly calculated or released to the general public by the NBA.  Players such as Garbajosa and Shane Battier are often applauded for their "intangible" work, but at the end of the day, isn't that just a way of glossing over the fact that the NBA statistic records are incomplete?

After all, what more are "intangibles" than statistics that are not completely calculated?

All that being said, statistics are incredibly important with the work we do at the HQ.  We use them to show a team from different perspectives and in order to give people a hard look at the team we all love.  We quibble over what statistics mean and whether a player will prove his worth on a roster.  However, if we were to simply only look at statistics in our analysis, we would be failing in our work to understand the players on our roster.  The picture would be incomplete because the statistics available are incomplete themselves. 

Next week, I'll take look at the NBA statistics available to us, which are beneficial, which are flawed and how to improve upon them.

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Stats vs. Watching

Great read! Stats are fun for sure, but nothing will ever beat sitting down and getting your impressions of players from watching the games.

PS – hard to get your stats homework done when you’re knocking a few back at the Bomber or Starlight!

by N C on Aug 24, 2009 9:04 AM EDT reply actions  

Oh man… Are they still giving out the Bomber keychains at frosh?

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 24, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Oh I'd assume so ...

… U of T man myself, but actually grew up in Waterloo. I experienced many a U of W frosh by proxy.

by N C on Aug 24, 2009 5:50 PM EDT up reply actions  

How about Moon?

Great post Mr. Vicious – what’s your take on Jamario Moon then, a player who always showed up with high marks via WoW, Hollinger, 82 games, etc?

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Aug 24, 2009 9:20 AM EDT reply actions  

lol, do you even need to ask? :p

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 24, 2009 12:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

Nice post. Looking forward to the next one.

Stats are great, especially advanced stats… but you still have to watch the games to really understand what’s happening on the court and why. This will never change.

by Vittorio De Zen on Aug 24, 2009 9:43 AM EDT reply actions  

Nice post. I’m a huge fan of Wages of Wins and advanced stats in general — but I agree that nothing is infallible (especially when it comes to something as complicated as basketball).

That being said, it continues to trouble me that a player like Andrea Bargnani keeps showing up as one of the worst players in the League based on certain metrics. Or how Bargnani is considered overpaid while still on his ROOKIE CONTRACT (not the huge $50 million extension he just signed). It’s just food for thought.

Of course, the way to contradict these advanced stats would be to go out and lead your team to 50 wins, a playoff spot, and possibly a first round series victory (instead of struggling to break the 40-win mark).

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Aug 24, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Of course, the way to contradict these advanced stats would be to go out and lead your team to 50 wins, a playoff spot, and possibly a first round series victory (instead of struggling to break the 40-win mark).

It is hard to pin a team making or missing the playoffs on one player when you have to judge the ability of 14 other players on the roster. But you are right in that a fair or unfair reputation can be disproven with W/L. Players, after enough failed seasons will be exposed as frauds or stars.

But then again, the worth of a player can be all about role. Take Allen Iverson vs. Ray Allen – swapping one out for the other as the #1 (high usage scorer) will probably have little impact. But as the second banana, Ray is infinitely more valuable because his complementary skills are extremely good while Iverson can’t even find a job because teams are afraid to “insult” him with an appropriate offer.

by bigweeze on Aug 24, 2009 12:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Allen Iverson = one of the most overrated players in NBA history

You’re exactly right about Ray Allen being “infinitely more valuable because of his complementary skills”. Just because Iverson might be able to beat Allen — or a lot of other guys in the League — one-on-one, it doesn’t make him a better NBA player.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Aug 24, 2009 12:17 PM EDT up reply actions  

It wasn’t until Kobe Bryan learned to play with his team that the Lakers won their championship, and it’s why a superstar player like LeBron James has still yet to wear a championship ring.

Kobe had already won multiple titles with Shaq.

Lebron has only been to the finals, second round, and conference finals in the past 3 years. It’s mostly his fault that the Cavs aren’t winning titles?

by bigweeze on Aug 24, 2009 10:01 AM EDT reply actions  

Kobe won with Shaq, true, but they needed complimentary players to do so. Without that team chemistry, they fell to guys like Detroit as well. The Spurs are another example of where a “team” is needed.

And it’s not his fault, but rather his team’s fault. This is what I’m talking about, and this is why individual statistics have a weakness in the NBA.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 24, 2009 12:23 PM EDT up reply actions  

about time

Thank you for validating my appreciation for the role player Vicious! All the Bruce Bowens and Chris Andersons of the world are a happier bunch. You can never really measure a player’s value to the team strictly on numbers. Maybe the NBA should switch to an NHL model of stats where the guys who’s pass leads to the great assist should be counted. Can’t wait for the next one!

Ray Bala
CANadian BasketBALL Report

by rbala on Aug 24, 2009 10:08 AM EDT reply actions  

I’ve equated basketball stats in the past to poker. There’s the art and the science. In Poker, odds & probability is a huge concept and you can’t be a successful player long term without knowing the fundamentals such is counting outs and knowing pot odds. But in a game like no-limit, knowing the psychology and when an opponent is weak is equally as important. The most successful players have both.

If I were to build a basketball team, I’d have the same philosophy. The most important offensive individual stat to me is FG% and the other two relavent stats to me is Rebounds and Steals. These stats seem to have less dependencies (i.e. you can switch teams and maitain these numbers). Not true in all circumstances (i.e. you have a high FG% and on your new team you’re expected to shoot more— so the stat really should be something like FG%/attempts, but I’m no statitician).

Quantifying Defence in any sport is much more Art. Baseball stat heads have been trying forever. For example, Errors is not a good indicator. If I was fielding I may have a high E, but the fact I have less range limits my Es. A great shortstop/outfielder who has great speed will get to more balls and attempted catches, but also increase his chances for Es.

If anyone’s seen this new video tracking software that will be able to analyze everyone’s speed (including ball) in live time, that’ll revolutionize all stats. It’s an amazing piece of software.

by Ustation on Aug 24, 2009 10:19 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah. That’s more of what I’m talking about. But the good thing about poker, is that it’s entirely individual in a way. It’s a bit based on your positioning at the table and also who you’re seated with (not to mention the cards) but at least it’s based on just how you approach the game. There’s just so many moving parts at one time in basketball that it’s so difficult to figure out what attributes you can assign to one player.

And yeah, baseball has had trouble with defense as well, but they’re closer to it than anyone else. Fielding percentage and other statistics of that ilk have tried to make up lost ground.

Do you have a link to that video for the new tracking software? I’d appreciate it.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 24, 2009 12:27 PM EDT up reply actions  

As a techy sporty geek, this is awesome technology!

by Ustation on Aug 24, 2009 2:47 PM EDT up reply actions  

Thanks man. Looks awesome!

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 24, 2009 5:21 PM EDT up reply actions  

I have been saying for awhile that basketball stats are inadequate to measure every player’s contributions on the court. Bargnani is a prime example as his numbers do not mesh with the position he plays but it doesn’t mean he doesn’t contribute to this team in a positive way and Moon/hump both score well in stat like WoW but we know how limited their contributions can be first hand from watching them play. I am not sure if this issue will ever be completely rectified as you can measure how many times a player saves a ball from going out of bounds (vs turning it over in that same instance) but it is difficult to measure which pic freed a player up for an open look.

by McGateway on Aug 24, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions  

One final note

I was looking at 82 games.com and it further illustrates how confusing and frustrating it can be to try and analyze a team. If you look at the team production you see what we already know, SG and SF were both major weaknesses while PG, PF and C where all strengths (in Per) having positive numbers. Yet when you look at the individual player numbers the Centre positional players (Bargnani, Oneal, Obryant and even Pops) are in the negative while Moon, Parker and Marion are all in the Positive even though their Per for the positions was negative. How does that work?

P.S. Toronto’s best 5 man unit was (as far as wins losses goes (Calderon-Parker-Graham-Bargnani-Bosh) at + 35 and 70% wins with 12 (not sure what that means)

by McGateway on Aug 24, 2009 11:38 AM EDT reply actions  

Yeah. I’m confused by that as well. It’s why we have such a headache at times arguing about this kind of stuff. Gotta remember that at the end of the day, these 3rd party sites have their own formulas for calculating stuff to try and make up for the deficiencies. But if the core statistics provided by the NBA are flawed, how can you calculate all the statistics properly?

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 24, 2009 12:31 PM EDT up reply actions  

Last season, I kept hearing mention of the Raptors being something like the 3rd best first quarter team in the League (source?). However, they would basically invert this in the second quarter when they were among the worst teams in the League (hello, Roko Ukic attempting to run the offence with too many minutes and shots devoted to guys like Jason Kapono).

Ignoring everything else for a minute, it would seem that the changes made by BC this summer were designed to address the lack of depth and dropoff in talent that caused the Raptors to give back so many leads or negate any kind of hot start by the team.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Aug 24, 2009 12:22 PM EDT reply actions  

Stats & Waterloo

Vicious D,
I think we might’ve taken the same Stats Courses. And depending on how long ago, you might’ve done some statistical analysis at the Loo – and the effect of empty glasses.

As I continue to believe, Stats can be "framed" such that one can see a glass half-empty, or half-full, depending on one’s Ego in proving a point. A newly elected politician might say his "team" won a majority, yet the opposition will say only a minority (of the total) voted that way. The winner will counter that it’s the Canadian system – quit crying over spilt milk.

As basketball goes, stats can be useful – especially on a team basis. But at times, it can be over-used. Actually watching a game can offer up a different perspective. I find Moon is an example of stats being exploited. He tended to "out-fight" our own guys, when it came to rebounds – especially when the opposition flees the scene to set up their defense. Bargnani tended (in my view), to block out his guy, allowing one of our better Rebounders to grab the ball. Moon gets the stat, and Andrea gets the … "he needs to start rebounding better" tag. A label that has some merit, but is not always fair – and that’s where Stats can fail.

At least that’s what I learned in Waterloo.

RapthoseLeafs

by RapthoseLeafs on Aug 24, 2009 12:28 PM EDT reply actions  

Haha, hey man. Yeah, we might have been in the same class! Thanks for that empty glass analogy. Totally forgot about it.

And I didn’t want to single out players that we’ve argued about for ages, but those would be some good examples, yes.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 24, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions  

That’s why many people are interested in stats like adjusted +/- or splits for when a players is on/off court. When they get it right, it will be much more accurate than anything people can guesstimate by simply watching.

It is also important to note that these are two different things:

- How good a player is
- How he performed

Stats don’t tell you the former, they tell you the latter.

by bigweeze on Aug 24, 2009 1:51 PM EDT up reply actions  

But that’s the problem, weeze. The stats we’re given to work with are grossly inadequate for what we do. When they get it right, is not good enough.

And +/- for basketball is a stat that most people completely discount. it’s listed as an individual stat even though it’s calculated as a group stat and you’re almost ALWAYS paired up with the same players. Just ugly in my opinion.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 24, 2009 2:12 PM EDT up reply actions  

There is also adjusted +/-, which some people like. More food for thought:

http://basketballvalue.com/topplayers.php?year=2008-2009&mode=summary&sortnumber=94&sortorder=DESC

Here is what it spit out for the Raps, not sure how AP got so high up there..

Parker, Anthony 9.07
Bosh, Chris 5.09
Moon, Jamario 3.81
Graham, Joey 0.56
Kapono, Jason -0.3
Marion, Shawn -1.85
Calderon, Jose -4.27
Ukic, Roko -5.29
O’Neal, Jermaine -7.95
Bargnani, Andrea -9.26

by bigweeze on Aug 24, 2009 3:46 PM EDT up reply actions  

Adjusted +/- over 2 seasons

Bosh, Chris 6.54
Moon, Jamario 5.68
Parker, Anthony 1.61
Marion, Shawn 1.58
Graham, Joey -0.2
Kapono, Jason -1.26
Douby, Quincy -2.66
Calderon, Jose -3.04
O’Neal, Jermaine -4.86
Humphries, Kris -5.08
Bargnani, Andrea -6.24

What I posted previously was for 2008-09, this is 2007-08 + 2008-2009

by bigweeze on Aug 24, 2009 3:49 PM EDT up reply actions  

Amir Johnson

His adjusted +/- over 2 seasons was 5.84

Last season it was 6.84

Go to “Top 50 Players Any Minutes”

http://basketballvalue.com/topplayers.php?year=2008-2009&mode=summary&sortnumber=94&sortorder=DESC

by Buddahfan on Aug 25, 2009 11:03 AM EDT up reply actions  

I’m actually really excited to see how the Houston Rockets perform this season without Yao and T-Mac. If you need an example to support or refute advanced stats and their effectiveness, check out how the Rockets perform. That’s a team built on stats that guys like Berri and Hollinger probably can’t even touch.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Aug 24, 2009 2:31 PM EDT reply actions  

The thing that sucks about both Hollinger and Berri is that they both enjoy PER/WP48 too much (not that I blame them).

PER isn’t great, but is good for a quick glance to see who racks up boxscore #s normalized per minute. Berri seems to enjoy merely adding WP48 values together for some reason, even when players will be used in different contexts. It’s fine when you expect the guy to play a similar role – like JO from Indiana to JO in Toronto. But Ariza is going to be counted on much more in Houston than he was in LA.

One interesting thing I read today is that Houston has 11 players between 6’6" and 6’9". Probably doesn’t bode well for them this season, but they are one to watch as Morey is a pretty sharp GM. Having T-Mac (mostly injured, declining, big contract) really ties his hands.

by bigweeze on Aug 24, 2009 4:02 PM EDT up reply actions  

Per 48

The problem that comes to mind (with Per 48), is that it attempts to level the playing field for short minute guys with full-time players, while (seemingly) minimizing the fatigue factor that increased minutes can have on stats.

Check out these numbers:

Andrea @ 31.4 mpg …. Per48 = 23.5 pts / 8.1 rebounds
Joey @ 19.8 mpg …….. Per48 = 18.7 pts / 8.97 Rb
Moon @ 25.5 mpg …… Per48 = 13.7 pts / 9.4 Rb
Pops @ 13.8 mpg ……. Per48 = 17.7 pts / 18.8 Rb (yes … 18.8)
Rasho @ 17.3 mpg …… Per48 = 18.6 pts / 9.4 Rb

So, if the Rebound Stat is a big factor with fans, then why isn’t Pops on this team. And with respect to Rasho – he’s a steal. Bargnani ….. he makes too much money. And Joey – why did we let him go? Hell … Douby (10.4 mpg) has a Per48 of 20.3 / 4.6 ….. wtf.

Point is, I like stats when I need to make a point. And that’s because I can twist them better then I ever could Gumby.

.
RapThoseLeafs

.
P.S.
I still take Bargs, any day of the week.
.

by RapthoseLeafs on Aug 24, 2009 6:11 PM EDT reply actions  

Thanks for all the encouragement guys. I wasn’t sure how well this article would be received. I’m glad that you guys enjoyed it.

There were a few reasons why I wrote this article in the first place.

The first was that a guy from Golden State of Mind wanted to keep quoting me statistics on Bargnani without seeing him play (shocking, I know).

Another reason was because that I’ve felt a growing sense of dissatisfaction over the entire way stats are handled in the NBA. It’s not always the league’s fault, but sometimes the nature of the sport… Still I think the could be doing a better job and I’ll outline that in my next article.

Finally, I think WoW, 82Games and other websites provide a valuable service but if their original data is limited in scope, there’s little that they can do other than crunch the same numbers in creative ways.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 24, 2009 7:07 PM EDT reply actions  

It makes sense that someone from another blog would take that route about Bargnani. I’ve probably only watched someone like Michael Redd play for about 40-60 minutes in the past year, but I don’t like his game. This is because most of my thinking is based on stats (low FG%, low assists, low rebounding). Who knows, maybe I’d like him more if I watched him more (err…maybe not).

I’d like to see a big site like ESPN use some of their massive resources to do video scouting, and uncover some of the untapped stats that could be found. Something along the lines of 2nd assists, or players who have a high rate of contesting jumpers. Just a thought.

by Thomas Anderson on Aug 24, 2009 10:13 PM EDT up reply actions  

Though I appreciate the idea of second assists, it could easily not be all that useful of a stat.

Giving credit for assists can be wonky already, plus you would see alot of super-weak second assists.

by bigweeze on Aug 24, 2009 10:35 PM EDT up reply actions  

As long as it’s a separate statistic and not lumped in with the regular assist stat, it can’t be that bad.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 24, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I’d like that too, but I think they’d say “why should we do it when the NBA already has people getting that information”

I’ll post a bit more in my next post about what I’d like to see, but 2nd assists are definitely one of them.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 24, 2009 10:36 PM EDT up reply actions  

I guarantee teams like the Houston Rockets and OKC Thunder are already tracking the “2nd assist”. Taken as a seperate stat, it would be a great indicator of ball movement vs. guys who literally stop the ball from moving and interrupt the flow of the offence.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Aug 25, 2009 10:09 AM EDT up reply actions  

I know there is a video service for basketball (the name escapes me, I heard about it on Truehoop a couple of years ago).

What the company would do is have game watchers go through every single game and tag plays/sequences of videos so that they would end up creating an archive of sortable footage – a much more efficient way of doing film study. This also would allow the user to bring up sortable videos of in-game action on demand.

I don’t believe it is available publicly anymore, there was a free trial for about a week way back when. I would imagine at this point many teams have subscribed to it or have their own versions of this. It’d be an incredibly powerful coaching tool if you could attach sortable situational stats like 82games’. Considering how much money teams spend on payroll, they’ve probably done it already

by bigweeze on Aug 24, 2009 10:32 PM EDT up reply actions  

Some Difficult Things to Quantify

There are some things that are difficult to quantify in basketball

Most of these are mentioned in scouting reports and may be available to teams as stats but I have not seen them.

1. Weakside rotation help
2. Setting effective screens – How do you measure it?
3. Rotating or not rotating back on defense
4. Effectiveness of closing out on a shooter
5. Successfully tipped balls on rebounds – This could be quantified and is mostly overlooked in rebounding at least by the writers and fans
6. Being in the proper location on the floor on offense.
7. Effectiveness in passing out of a double team
8. Area rebounding effectiveness
9. Bad shot percentage – Shots taken and missed when the offense is not properly balanced usually lead to easy run out baskets by the opponents.

One stat that I would like to see that to my knowledge isn’t avaialable at least publicly is a break down of shots taken and made with by a player between those that are assisted on and those that are not assisted on. For example I think it would be interesting to see how many points a game a player scores with and without an assist and what their FG percentage is with and without an assist. To do this a new stat called something like “Potential Assist” could be created for each shot. One could also then calculate a “Potential Assist Percentage” for each player. It would also be interesting to see what percentage of the time a shooter is fouled on shots taken with and without a “Potential Assist”

by Buddahfan on Aug 25, 2009 11:29 AM EDT reply actions  

Bingo bango boingo – though “effectiveness” is such a subjective term.

Other stuff I’d like to see if it was measurable somehow:
1)% blown by opponent (in 1-1 scenarios), or % blow by as offensive player
2)Opponents shooting % against on 1-1 coverage
3)Avg speed when opponent is on breakout
4)% player gets picked on attempt (provided the strategy is to play over vs under)

The most obvious strategy for our pickup/league games is always attack the opponent who can easily get beaten by, which forces a double team or getting them in zone. Unfortunately for me, I’m usually that target. :(

by Ustation on Aug 25, 2009 11:41 AM EDT reply actions  

I think those are all great ideas. Some of them are a bit subjective and would probably be difficult to implement. Goes back to my example above about where one player’s responsibility begins, and another ends… It’s just really difficult to do that in basketball sometimes. I mean slow rotations can be the result of the defender getting broken down too easily, a lack of communication on the floor, or bad positioning by subsequent defenders. Not sure who you’d place the blame on… It might be only a stat you can assign to the unit as a whole.

Others would be great assets, but I think teams would have problems leaking those stats out. But it’s interesting to see just what people want from their NBA stats. Keep it coming guys!

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 25, 2009 12:30 PM EDT reply actions  

So when is part 2 coming?

by dhackett1565 on Aug 27, 2009 11:20 AM EDT up reply actions  

Looking at Wed of next week tentatively.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 27, 2009 9:41 PM EDT up reply actions  

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