The 2008-09 Toronto Raptors - Did The Legomaster Hate this Team or What?
by Adam Francis on Aug 21, 2009 9:00 AM EDT
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With yet another trade perhaps imminent, Franchise steps back to ponder just what Bryan Colangelo was really thinking about his team last season...
Nine new players.
And if the rumoured Marcus Banks for Matt Carroll deal goes down, that makes 10.
With a roster of 15, that means that over the past two and a half months or so, Bryan Colangelo has somehow managed to replace two-thirds of his roster.
What makes this feat that much more incredible is that not three months ago, many fans, myself included, didn't believe that BC could do much other than re-sign Shawn Marion, maybe keep Anthony Parker and Carlos Delfino, and perhaps use whatever leftover scraps existed to sign someone else. It really was hard to imagine a huge improvement from the club going into this October.
Now, no matter how you feel about certain key moves like the Hedo signing, as Scott Carefoot recently noted on Raptorblog, there is enough youth, athleticism, and upside that any team improvement doesn't solely have to come at the hands of Bosh (who may have plateaued) or Bargnani (who may revert to his sophomore season for all we know.) No, in the current situation players like Marco Belinelli, Amir Johnson, Jarrett Jack, and of course DeMar DeRozan, last Friday's X Factor topic, could all push this club to a level that Hedo, CB4, Andrea and Jose could only dream of.
Hell, even Sonny Weems could carve out a nice niche for himself on this roster!
Training camp and preseason should be a real treat then this year with so many new players battling for playing time. But the influx of new names had me thinking last night that instead of posting the next X Factor report this morning, maybe I should be talking about something else...
...like the need for Raptors fans to petition the Academy so that Bryan Colangelo receives an Oscar for his performance last year.
I'm serious here.
Remember the whole "we're not that far away" speech at the end of last season?
Does 10 new players suggest "not that far away" to you?
The guy must have been just losing it internally having to watch Sam Mitchell chain Andrea to the bench, JO hobble around, Kapono pass on shooting 3's, and Jamario pass on driving in order TO shoot 3's.
As a fan it was infuriating to watch so I can't even imagine how he felt, especially considering he put the whole mess together.
In contrast, regardless of how the upcoming season turns out, you get the feeling that Colangelo finally has the team HE wants; multiple options at every position, lots of players who can score and distribute, a few ridiculous athletes, shooters galore, and not a single player who doesn't want to be here.
He also has a coach who he feels can mould the club into playing the style of basketball he wants to run in Toronto, and as much talent as he could possibly hope for given his original off-season salary restrictions to surround Chris Bosh in a last ditch effort to retain the four-time All-Star's services.
Fait accompli right?
At face value you'd have to say yes.
I'm still not convinced this is a 50 win team but with each passing move I'm more and more excited to see just how this new blend of players mixes.
I'm betting BC is too as really, he's done a house-cleaning job of massive proportions this summer.
Which brings me back to my original point; just how much did BC hate last year's club?
Was Colangelo really even that enamoured with the Jermaine O'Neal trade? If you think about it, the composition of last year's club, one that was supposed to be based on half-court "twin towers" sets, defence and rebounding, is almost a complete opposite of the one he's still putting the finishing touches on.
Perhaps the TJ Ford issues forced his hand and that really was the best option out there, an option he felt he could always divest himself of in two seasons max if things didn't work out?
Or perhaps he saw the troubles his old club, Phoenix, had in getting past some of the more traditional teams in the West and so he decided to buck his usual style given the limited resources he was working with?
I don't think we'll ever know the true story but it's safe to say that the team that fans watched playing in January (if you were actually still tuned in) was basically the antithesis of the type of team BC wanted to send out on the court every night.
The Shawn Marion trade was a band-aid solution and by putting some extra time in the ER this off-season the Legomaster was able to upgrade from "band-aid" to full-scale lobotomy.
While the results of this lobotomy have yet to be determined, there's no question that Colangelo now has assembled his "own team," arguably for the first time since his arrival in Toronto. In fact, with the dealing of Roko Ukic, there are now only two remnants from the Rob Babcock era; Chris Bosh and Jose Calderon.
And even for someone who's been as critical of some of Bryan Colangelo's moves as me, this fact alone has me looking forward to this season and beyond.
FRANCHISE
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Mitchell
Good read. I still think that the JO signing was an attempt to play Mitchell ball, but like you said, who knows.
I too am very excited for the coming season.
I concur. That’s exactly what I’ve been writing since last year that there were moves made to placate his coach rather than appease his own vision.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 21, 2009 1:08 PM EDT up reply actions
BC’s main goal was to trade TJ. If he was also trying to placate Sam, that was only a minor consideration.
I may rag on BC, but he is merely misguided – not stupid. I cannot imagine any GM adding a 40 million dollar contract simply to please a coach on the chopping block/to build an excuse to fire his coach. If BC went in half-heartedly, I can’t imagine why he would have included both Rasho (starting C) and our #1 (another C).
BC trading for JO was quite similar to Steve Kerr trading for Shaq. Both GMs gambled on a change at the center position towards a more traditional style of play. That in itself was not the problem. What happened is that both GMs overestimated the aging, expensive player they had acquired which led to two underwhelming seasons.
I’m not really sure what the expectation was of JO internally. From my POV, we got essentially what we should’ve expected. A career 46% shooter, with high mileage and a sizable contract.
No, I mean he had to trade TJ. We all accept the fact that the Raptors simply were not willing to stick by a PG who was becoming a cancer on the team and was always one hit away from being an early retirement figure.
However, the player that they chose to get back was definitely one of Mitchell’s choosing. I’ve maintained since the trade that the Raptors would have been much better off getting Raja Bell than trading away a fairly good contract in Nesterovic for such an injured, possibly over-the-hill former all-star in Jermaine O’Neal. I think I expected O’Neal to be very much not worth his contract, with an additional year over Nesterovic, who was going to get injured… And that’s what we got. What the management of the Raptors thought they were getting is a whole other story.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 22, 2009 1:12 AM EDT up reply actions
Plus it enabled him to pull the plug at any time and clear out a huge amount of cap space. Likewise with marion, he preserved most of that ability.
I’m sure he didn’t think the drop off would be so sharp, but I wonder the JO deal was actually all about getting flexibilty for this summer with the added bonus of lighting a fire under bargnani…
I’d say there was that one lasting impact from O’Neal. He definitely educated Bargnani on how to play the post in a “North American” style. I don’t think we can understate the importance of having O’Neal show Bargnani how to play a little defense as well as be a guy that Bargnani could bang with in practice. Having someone other than Rasho and Alex English teach him was pretty
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 21, 2009 4:07 PM EDT up reply actions
Random thought
Great article Franchise, for any GM to be able to change almost 2/3’s of his team in one off-season is pretty amazing, mind you I feel like basketball has the most flexibility out of the different professional sports to do that (of course the Knicks may have something to say about that…) but what really stands out for me is that he did a pretty complete overhaul without any trades that seem like we’re getting fleeced out of our mind.
After this off-season, although making moves doesn’t guarantee they’ll all be right or that we’ll get a championship, it’s very hard for me to feel like BC will ever be stuck in a corner that he can’t get out of… and that gives me a lot of hope for this raptors team
Totally agree and that’s the greatest thing about BC – you just can’t wait to see what other tricks he has up his sleeve.
Remember how with Babcock and even Grunwald at times, as a fan, you felt they were just shrugging their shoulders a bit in the off-season and saying “well…there’s not really anything I can do?”
by Adam Francis on Aug 21, 2009 9:32 AM EDT up reply actions
searching for Bobby Colangelo
Firstly, good to see you’re finally showing some enthusiam Franchise…not so doom and gloom.
Now, onto my take on the whole “not that far away” comment by Colangelo. Let me just throw out there the possibility that when Colangelo made that statement, maybe he knew what he wanted to do this summer….thus being “not that far away” due to the pieces and plans he had in place….not so much the actually players that were already here. Maybe he’s a little more like a chess champion thinking seasons ahead rather than a “wait and react” kinda guy? I know it’s a stretch, but you have to wonder.
So maybe it wasn’t that he “hated” last years roster, but rather that he already knew what he wanted to do WAAAAAAAAY before any of us could ever see it coming.
Keep up the good work Franchise!
Never underestimate the power of denial
I’d love to have a one-on-one sitdown with BC about this…I mean, either he really deserved that Oscar for standing in front of us post-season and saying “we’re not that far away,” or…he really believed it at the time but then saw opportunites open up during the summer that allowed him to make major changes.
Or perhaps a bit of both…he thought the club was better than its record, then saw the playoffs and realized Toronto had farther to go then he thought. And this offseason allowed him to make the changes he wanted to make.
by Adam Francis on Aug 21, 2009 9:56 AM EDT up reply actions
Come on… The “we’re not that far away…” statement is what he had to say. What was the alternative? “This team is not good. I put together a bad team. I fired Sam Mitchell knowing that it wasn’t simply a coaching issue…” Bull.
When you fire a coach 17 games into the season, one game under .500, its because you truly believe the team is underachieving. You believe the team is better than that. Well the team was actually WORSE than that.
Tht being said, cudos to BC on this summer. As captured in this post, he truly did make something out of nothing at every turn. Franchis, you captured it perfectly. Whether you like the individual deals or not, this team is better in almost every catagory than last year. Add to that the fact that there are opportunities for ‘up-side/potential" with Bellinelli, Jack, DeRozen and Johnson you can not dispute that this off-season has been an unmitigated success. I often call out BC’s shortcomings/missteps, well I have to applaud him at this point in August.
re BC
His comments were based on Plan A, as stated, resigning Marion, Parker, and Delfino along with the Big 3 of CB, AB, & JC as the keys to the team, and the offense of the last 25 games of 08/09 that was so dynamic and effective.
When Marion did not want to play for BC’s offer, enter plan B and the Turk, et all and the rebuild that we see, including the addition of athleticisim, toughness, and defense, that would have been added in any event, as a stated objective, in his season ending presser.
So now we have a new team, a new coaching staff, and a training camp/ pre-season to have them put it all together into a TEAM with a defensive and offensive system that will work.
re: Plans A and B
I agree with that description of the course BC set this offseason. Losing Marion, Parker, and Delfino led to reevaluations at each point of the best way to proceed. Looking back, the Marion S&T was the key cog that made the Raptors off-season maneuverings go from good to great. It helped yield Belinelli, got Hump off the books, and allowed us to sign Hedo while retaining the MLE.
I think that "not far away" comment was placed there just to keep an image of hope alive with people. That’s the thing about Colangelo is that he’ll tell you with some bravado about what he feels about the team, but I don’t think it’s always accurate. I mean during the conference, he also said he was severely disappointed and embarrassed. It’s not that surprising for him to gut last year’s team and also replace 1/2 of the coaching staff as a result
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 21, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions
One final thought on Carroll. He immediately makes more money than Banks this year but his salary drops next year to 4.3 mil while Banks makes 4.7. That is a 400k swing. That may not seem like a lot but if the Luxury tax drops to say 60 mil. that might save the Raptors as much as 800k. Money better used somewhere else.
Carroll = Future Considerations?
In regards to Carroll, another bball writer (altraps blog) speculated that Carroll for Banks might have been pre-arranged “future considerations” stemming from the Marion deal. When you look at Dallas’ end of things they gave up expiring contracts in Wright and George, as well as Stackhouse’s unique expiring deal (7mill salary, 2 mill buyout). On the other side of the ledger, they took on Hump (expiry 2011), Buckner (expiry?), and signed Marion to an above mid-level five year deal. IF this were true, this changes the perception of the Carroll trade somewhat, as a partial offset for them assuming that extra year of Hump’s deal.
Many of us discussed the acquisition of JO last season as a means to giving Smitch the type of player/roster he wanted that was better suited to his strengths (defense and toughness). At the end of the day, not even Smitch could really do anything with such an oft-injured JO. Man, did we ever suck last season!
Good Read
Hey Good article. Only thing I wanted to point out is that Bosh was drafted by Grunwald, not Babcock. Grunwald was the man!
Good Catch
Bosh there while Babcock was so a holdover with Jose from that era…but Jose is now the only player on the roster with Rob’s fingerprints on him…
by Adam Francis on Aug 21, 2009 11:23 AM EDT up reply actions
Blowed Up Real Good
It looks to me like BC’s loyalty to Smitch (which I should add, Smitch more or less earned), was the genesis of the JO signing. When JO and Calderon got hurt that plan fell apart, and the team collapsed.
Out goes Smitch, in comes JT, and at that point I think BC felt he had the go ahead to blow it all up and do it the way he had always wanted to.
It says a lot about him that he trusted his coach enough to try and build the team to Smitch’s strengths. And it says even more about him that when that didn’t work, he wasted no time in pulling the trigger to rebuild the team in a new direction.
My only fear is that BC’s bosses will get impatient with him and fail to extend him when the time is right.
I don’t think they’ll get rid of BC any time soon and I point to the Jays for the reason why.
A sports franchise is all about hope. If fans think that the team will improve this year and have a good shot at the playoffs, the fans will be happy and buy tickets, souvenirs, and watch games on TV. BC is very good at giving fans reason to hope. Even at the beginning of last year, many of us had hope (perhaps even though logic said otherwise) that it would work out.
Contrast this with the Jays. Really, is there any hope for this team? While the drop in attendance is largely a factor of the Jays changing how they count, I think that the typical fan has no real hope for this team. I think it this lack of hope can be pointed to JP and the lack of faith in his ability to get the final pieces to the puzzle. I would be surprised if JP has a job with the Jays next year. (For the record, I think that JP is an average GM who has made both good and bad moves. The Jays, unfortunately, need a superior GM to compete)
Also, the Leafs after quite a few sucky GMs, finally seem to have seen the light and got themselves a GM with a track record and a clear vision of what he wants for a team. Hmm, sounds a bit like what the Raptors have. (Yes, yes, I know that BC does not have a ring yet, but his teams did at least have successful regular seasons).
What the Jays need to compete in the EAST is either an owner who is willing to spend $150/200 million on salaries or a fan base/owner who is willing to finish for an 8/10 year period losing 100/110 games yearly and building thru high draft picks.
Neither is a likely scenario, so we are what we see. When the Jays won the 2 series rings they were the highest paying team, but the world has changed in the last 15 years.
That's funny
I made a comment on the Jays SB Nation site regarding GM’s.
Basically I stated that Raps and Leafs situations was similar (a big mess and ownership/upper managment went out and got the best available GM’s). Thus a restored faith in management by the fan base.
The Jays need to do something similar, because, though JP has made some really good moves/trades, his actions of late have me questioning if he has a plan for the organization. 8 years should be long enough to get a handle on your squad.
In any regard, I don’t think BC should be going anywhere in the foreseeable future. Even if this revamped roster doesn’t work (though I think it will do a lot better than last year), he has made attempts to address his perceived needs on the club and did so in some really imaginative ways.
I think this is an extremely important point – having a top-name GM inspires faith.
I think Rob Babcock got a raw deal from fans to a certain extent as his tenure wasn’t all bad. However he simply didn’t inspire confidence and that’s something BC has in spades.
by Adam Francis on Aug 22, 2009 8:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Raw deal? Drafting Hoffa and the lopsided Vince trade don’t really leave much room for interpretation. Haha.
And is he still part of the braintrust in Minny? Maybe it was Babcock and not the new guy behind the “let’s pick every PG in the draft” strategy?
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Aug 22, 2009 10:34 AM EDT up reply actions
Trade value
One thing that I haven’t heard many people mention is that BC has clearly improved the trade value of this roster. Many, myself included, wondered just how BC would get out of the mess he created when non of the Raptors’ tradable assets had any value… yet… not only did he manage to move them… he brought in players that are arguably, more valuable… making tweaking this roster mid-season much easier.
It’s almost as though BC turned a paperclip in to a house. Almost… we still have to see if there are any leaks…
LOL. Turning that red paper clip into that house took a heck of a lot more bargaining than this summer I think… But infinitely simpler since there’s no luxury tax for that guy to think about ;p
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 21, 2009 1:14 PM EDT up reply actions
I met Red Paper clip dude (seriously). I tried to trade him something and he just laughed.
Anybody want to trade for a pen? I’ll just settle for working my way to a raptor game.
One thing that I haven’t heard many people mention is that BC has clearly improved the trade value of this roster.
Another solid point and something that Howland and I worried about the past few seasons. BC just didn’t have enough small contracts or young players with upside to make deals happen. Joey Graham and Jamario Moon were about the extent of things.
Now, the team has a handful of guys that fit this description meaning that as the year goes on, Colangelo should be able to do some more maneuvering if need be.
by Adam Francis on Aug 22, 2009 8:19 AM EDT up reply actions
Like Franchise and Big Weeze have mentioned in past threads, the next step is consolidating some this array of resources into a a top 7/8 calibre player. I’d envision looking at your bench and being able to pick one pg, one wing, and one big, and feel comfortable shortening the bench without glaring deficiencies.
Jarrett Jack is the pg, Belinelli looks like the wing, and the legit third big is either a) a three horse race b) not here yet. This assumes that DeRozan eventually starts at SG, and also serves as primary backup at SF behind Hedo. BC has the flexibility to make mid-season moves if he wants, but he doesn’t HAVE to. He’s added plenty of new parts to this tired Raptor machine. Watching and debating how they all fit and interact will likely keep us busy well past the trading deadline.
It’s probably more use for us to keep them until the end and figure out who can play. And if we’re in the playoffs, it’s a whole different ballgame. Sometimes players who have been flying under the radar the entire season emerge there.
I really don’t think any of our bit players have much value around the league (or we wouldn’t have gotten them so cheaply). But they could be sold as very good sweetener in the instance that we try and deal a more major piece (CB4). A number of players we have are in the position of being worth more than an mid/low #2, but not worth a low #1.
The Bargnani Factor
How much do you think the JO acquisition going into 2008/2009 had to do with a loss of faith in Bargnani? It’s not far fetched to assume the organization may have viewed the prospects of Bargs turning into anything beyond a modest contributor as slim, given his sophomore performance. If there was complete faith that Bargs would become the really solid player they hoped for, the JO acquisition would likely not have been made. Colangelo has shown himself to be a very creative deal maker. If we assume that same creativity was there last year, it’s possible that even if he wanted to get a different complement of player(s), he may have felt pressure to protect against a total Bargnani failure while not signaling failure by trading Bargs. With Bargs having shown to be on the right track again, Colangelo can revert to whatever the original plan was in terms of team identity and style of play.
Good vibes all around
Read Scott’s blog and hit it on the nose – something to look forward to. Complete 180 from last season. The addition of youth and athleticism provides a sense of excitement that was so lacking last season.
Who knows if BC is done wheeling and dealing, by mid -September we’ll probably have both Lopez brothers and the Laker girls!
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