Third Party Reports - A Look at Johnson and Weems
by Adam Francis on Aug 19, 2009 7:29 AM EDT
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PrintWith the Delfino and Ukic trade now official, RaptorsHQ reaches out to some SB Nation confederates to get a closer look at both Amir Johnson and Sonny Weems...
With Bryan Colangelo's latest shake-up, here at the HQ, two more new faces will be part of the Raptors' line-up next year.
And while everyone knew about Hedo Turkoglu, and most knew names like Jack and even Belinelli, Amir Johnson and Sonny Weems (especially Weems) are admittedly less familiar to most.
To that end we decided to send three questions to both MotownStringMusic.com and ArkansasExpats.com to discuss Johnson and Weems respectively. Here were the results:
1. HOWLAND - RaptorsHQ: Talk about Amir Johnson's time with Detroit. After a couple years of riding the pine he was awarded with a fairly lucrative contract and then was shipped out. What happened there?
Brian - MTSM.com: Joe Dumars drafted Amir out of high school in the 2nd round of the 2005 draft hoping to land a steal. Dumars saw tremendous upside in Johnson and I think that fairly lucrative contract was a result of that optimism. Unfortunately, it just didn't work out as he wasn't given the minutes needed to excel and I don't think Detroit was planning on doing so this year before his contract was up again either. As a result, they traded him hoping to get as much in return for him (which wasn't much) instead of just letting him leave for nothing.
2. HOWLAND - RHQ: Obviously Amir must have shown something to deserve the nice contract he received two seasons ago. What are Amir's strengths and what are his weaknesses. What do you think his ceiling is?
Brian - MTSM.com: Amir Johnson brought a lot of energy when he played with Detroit. One couldn't help but notice the difference the minute he stepped on the floor. However, his ability to get himself in a good position on defense to block shots and this highlight reel dunk are probably what stick out to me most about him in the past couple years. As for his ceiling, he's still only 22-years old! He could still develop into the star Dumars envisioned. And did you know that Amir Johnson reportedly turned down an even bigger contract from the Spurs in 2007?
3. HOWLAND - RHQ: Having had both Delfino and Amir on the Pistons who do you think got the better player here?
Brian - MTSM.com: Each team is receiving different styles of players. Delfino is entering his prime as he'll be 27 during this next season and Amir is still a "young prospect." I think Amir definitely has the ability to become a much better player, but Delfino is probably the more steady player right now. Delfino knocks down triples while Amir will be a force down low on offense and defense if he continues to mature. I don't know much about Toronto and Milwaukee's needs, but to me it seems like Milwaukee wanted a deep threat while Toronto might be looking for guys to start filling the massive hole Chris Bosh will open if he decides to jump ship after this season (or gets traded). In short, Delfino might be more productive in the next couple years, but Toronto looks better in the long run if they can re-sign Amir.
RHQ
1) FRANCHISE - RHQ: Give us your take on Weems – I remember him as a high-flyer with good "quicks," but whose offensive game was quite raw. And even though he had great athletic ability and solid length, he wasn’t exactly a lock-down type of defender type.
John - AEXP: Sonny was definitely one of my favorite players from what was a fairly confounding era in Razorback basketball history. His teams (which in their defense, spanned a coaching change and some general upheaval in the program) were generally noted for having a lot of talent but never quite coming through when it mattered. More so than most of his teammates, though, Sonny stood out with some really big games - he dominated against Indiana in the 2008 NCAA tournament (31 points on 12 of 14 shooting!) and had some really nice moments in what was ultimately a losing effort on the road against Kentucky earlier that year.
Your general assessment is pretty much right on, though - he was more the type of guy who would beat you with raw athletic ability (which he has tons of) rather than being a pure scorer. His shooting touch, for example, could be really good or really not so good. But, by the end of his career he stood out to me as a leader on that team and someone who played with a lot of heart. The Hogs definitely missed his presence last year.
2) FRANCHISE - RHQ: What role could you see him playing for Toronto and with the logjam currently at the 2 spot, could he play the 3 at times?
John - AEXP: I can't claim much expertise on Toronto's current roster situation or needs, but it doesn't seem completely far-fetched to envision Sonny as a 3. He played some small forward in college, and some ways it actually makes more sense because it plays to his strengths as a great athlete more than his somewhat streaky outside shooting.
3) FRANCHISE - RHQ: Finally, a lot of scouts and draftniks have said that for Weems to stick in the league, he’ll need to carve out a niche as a defensive stopper, something the Raptors desperately need. Do you think that could be the case based on anything you saw during his college career?
John - AEXP: At Arkansas Sonny was primarily known as a scorer more than a defender, but with the right coaching and motivation (i.e., focus on defense if you want to keep your job) it could happen...as I've noted a couple of times now he really is an excellent athlete, and if he trains that ability towards stopping guys on defense rather than beating them on offense he might be able to carve out a niche for himself. I wouldn't say he'll be the second coming of Alvin Robertson (another former Razorback/Raptor), but I could see him coming off the bench to cool off the other team's hot hand.
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I love it when you guys get in touch with the other blogs and do this sort of thing. It makes for interesting and informative reading.
I am still not completely convinced that this team is anything more than a 7-8th seed with the roster they currently have. There are a lot of variables though so at this point nothing would surprise me at this stage. Johnson sounds a little bit like Yogi though so I am not sure how much he can bring to the table but I guess getting something for Delfino and Ukic even if it is just Cap relief next season isn’t too bad.
I’m not convinced either, but what I do like is that BC has brought in enough wildcards that there is a lot more upside on this team than in the past few seasons. Given the constants (Bosh, Calderon, Hedo), the club should right there be much improved. Throw in possibly another step from Bargs and the upside of guys like DeRozan, Johnson, Jack and Belinelli, then maybe this club surprises and climbs higher in the standings then expected.
Also, you really have to commend BC on one thing – he REALLY did as much as he could with every little resource that he had. Prior to the off-season I really couldn’t see a team taking Hump or Ukic let alone both. Now Marcus Banks is the only real sore spot outside of Patrick O’Bryant, whose contract is really negligible, and Banks looks like a good trade chip option later in the year.
by Adam Francis on Aug 19, 2009 7:52 AM EDT up reply actions
Since no one has any real idea where we will finish this season, let’s focus on the positives. Regardless of how this team jells, BC has done everything in his power to fill various team needs with good players or at least players with potential. A much better predicament than the one we were in at the end of last season!
by Assistant GM on Aug 19, 2009 9:00 AM EDT up reply actions
I have to agree with Assistant GM — BC has done everything in his power to completely blow up the roster outside of what is considered the core of Bosh, Calderon and Bargnani. At this point, I think the focus should move from the front office to Jay Triano, Marc Iavaroni and the rest of the coaching staff. Those guys have a lot of work to do to get this team where they need to be. And then it falls on Bosh to step up and prove he’s a leader and a max contract superstar in the mold of LeBron James and D Wade.
You could argue that the supporting casts of both James and Wade are qual to or inferior to the Raptors.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Aug 19, 2009 10:16 AM EDT up reply actions
Colangelo can do well with few resources. But I’m not so sure he can do great things with many resources as he continually seems to squander them.
It will take a hell of a season to crack even 50 wins and get the 4th seed. Unfortunately, there are 3 teams in the East who will win 60+ unless something catastrophic happens.
Looking ahead, Even if Amir and Belinelli do well, I highly doubt the money is there to extend them.
I’m not convinced that we will see three 60 game winners in the east. There wasn’t last year and the 4th seed had 47 wins. I see the east as being pretty competitive and looking like a bell curve in the end. A few of really good teams and a few really bad teams with the rest filling out the bell around the 500 mark.
If Amir and Belinelli do well, it likely means the Raptors do well, in which case MLSE will find the money to pay them.
Well, Orlando did win 59 last year for the 3rd seed and I imagine they will be better with a full season of Nelson + Carter instead of Turkoglu. Boston’s better off with Sheed and Cleveland didn’t really lose much in adding Shaq.
If Amir improves and we can resign him, we will be in a decent position if Bosh leaves. Bosh is far better at this point, but Amir’s game may fit the Raps better assuming he can improve while fouling far less.
Milwaukee and Detroit are both foolish for giving up on a young frontcourt prospect. Milwaukee’s frontcourt isn’t exactly stacked, and it’s likely enough that he is better than Villanueva in a season or two that Detroit should have kept Amir at under 4m instead of shelling out 50m to Charlie.
Your assumption is that all three teams won’t have something happen to them during the season (actually, you said “unless something catastrophic happens” so I think we are in essential agreement). My assumption is that at least one of those teams will have a significant injury or something during the season, enough to cause them to miss the 60 win mark. My assumption is also that with the general quality of the eastern teams is that there are fewer patsies to pad your record against and this will also make it more difficult to get to 60. The fact that there are also fewer superior teams as well means that having three teams over 60 is not out of the question.
Kudos
Thanks for taking the time and effort to provide more insight into the two newest Raps.
I have been a sponge for info on these guys since the deal went down.
Regardless of how this season turns out, you will NOT be hearing me slagging BC.
My fear after last season was that to change the mental makeup of this team, changing a few players was not going to cut it.
As soon as their jumpshots stopped dropping it would be “Here we go again, just like last year…”, and their confidence would drop like a lead balloon.
We can all debate that maybe BC should have got this player instead of that, but qute frankly, when he has changed the roster (9 or 10 new players) and checked off everything on his checklist (shot creators, toughness, improved D, athletism), he has done that.
I think CB will feel the same way. In fact I bet he has already made up his mind to stay with the Raps, though it would not be in his best interest to say so before the end of the season.
He is a cerebral dude. Logic dictates to wait until the decision needs to be made before going public.
If this team does not perform, it will be the players I will be harranguing.
After picking up Amir I am MUCH more confident in our front court defense, as quite frankly, we were as soft as cotton-candy before the move.
The prospect of POB getting minutes due to injury was keeping me up at night.
I still would like a natural SF, as we now have natural SG’s who can play the 3, but they cannot play it as well as they play the SG. That is a concern. The SF’s in this league are not exactly stiffs.
Hopefully as was opined, Weems can be that type of SF off the bench.
If that happens, after all BC has done, to get a need filled by a virtual throw-in, sainthood would be the logical next step for BC.
I cannot wait for training camp to open!
The prospect of POB getting minutes due to injury was keeping me up at night.
I think a lot of fans felt like this ha ha.
It’s a good point though about the Raps not being able to pay for some of these guys should they blow up…that would be a tough pill to swallow.
by Adam Francis on Aug 19, 2009 10:50 AM EDT up reply actions
hold up....
I would take all these kids blowing up big and bright next year! I’ll worry about the shrapnel later.
nice read guys
Delfino wasn’t coming back. It’s basically Ukic for Johnson and Weems. That’s something to be very, very happy about, I think.
by Vittorio De Zen on Aug 19, 2009 1:01 PM EDT reply actions
We’ll worry about that if/when that happens.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 19, 2009 1:44 PM EDT up reply actions
No solid evidence yet, but The Star is reporting Colangelo is looking at moving Marcus Banks for Matt Carroll.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Aug 19, 2009 1:45 PM EDT reply actions
oh no
if BC does complete a trade for matt caroll, i think it would be the worst trade this summer, and will end off his magical work on a sour trade. matt has a contract 2 yrs longer and slightly cost a little more than marcus. and hes another shooter. didnt we learn from the kapono experiment. Carrol is almost the same as kapono just not as good of a shooter.
we have plenty of scorers in bosh, calds, bargs, and hedo. we dont need another sespecially when they just aquired bellinelli who’s supposed to be the scorer off the bench. we need athletic, attack the rim type players. id prefer we keep marcus, keep him as dnp with obryant, and wait out his contract until it becomes desirable. id also prefer weems to take that 12-13th man off the bench and not carroll, cause hes still pretty young, has more room to grow, and can hopefully turn out to be that athletic wing we’ve been praying for, for years. i doubt it but at least he’s not another shooter. we need a sf who can guard his position and not rely on trying to score cause that what our core is supposed to do (bosh, calds, bargs, and now hedo). they are all shooters and adding another one would just be deja vu from our recent past, which was also a failure.
carroll more marketable trade bait?
could carroll be more moveable than Banks? We did move George to get Belli, maybe we could move Carroll to get something more useful…Banks is not a positive locker room presence, but Carroll is. Maybe BC knows something that we don’t in terms of unspoken assets that other teams covet (due to working the phones).
Waiting to see how this works out first, if at all…
If this were the case, would this not just become a 3-way deal? I really hope that Carroll is not coming to Toronto. I would even rather see Toronto eat the contract of Banks.
re Carroll
Triano, while talking on the Fan, when asked if he would like anything else added, said you can never have too many shooters. Colangelo is trying to help, replacing someone who will not play, with someone who can provide a needed skill, when and if called upon.
Here’s hoping Triano doesn’t overuse his new white boy shooter the way he did Kapono last season. That was painful to watch.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Aug 20, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions
Contracts that are worse than Banks/Carroll?
I was playing with the ESPN Trade Machine, and I was only able to find a few players that would fit in this kind of bad contract for bad contract trade (for players that would be at least 10th on the depth chart):
- Daniel Gibson, Cavs (4 more years @ $4.1M this year)
- James Jones, Heat (4 more years @ $4.3M this year)
- Eduardo Najera, Nets (3 more years @ $3M this year)
- James Jeffries, NYK (2 years @ $6.5M this year)
- Luke Walton, Lakers (4 more years @ $4.8M this year)
- Sasha Vujacic, Lakers (2 more years @ $5M this year)
- Marco Jaric, Memphis (2 years @ $7.1M this year)
- Mo Pete, New Orleans (2 more years @ $5.9M this year)
Of all those, I’d pick Jaric, just so we can see his Victoria Secret model wife courtside!
There is a whole other list of semi-useful but grossly overpaid players:
Maggette, Kirilenko, Peja, Kenyon Martin, Nocioni, Udrih, etc.
But, those types of trades seem even more difficult… given that all of our higher-contract players are ones that we either just signed (Bargnani, Hedo) or that we’re trying to keep (Bosh, Calderon).
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