I Want to Believe
After yesterday’s Star-Trek related post, the title of this morning’s may suggest that I’m continuing with the sci-fi theme and using X Files as the analogy for today.
And while I was a big fan of the show, and even David Duchovny’s sleaze-filled performances in Californiacation, that’s not the case.
Instead, the title simply reflects that while I’ve been quite skeptical of Colangelo’s work so far this off-season, I hope more than anything that I’m wrong in my criticism. After all, it now sounds like he’s managed to extract two wing players from Dallas via last night’s convoluted sign-and-trade for Shawn Marion; something that seemed unfathomable just days ago.
To top it off, from the sounds of things and because of this deal, it also seems like BC now has regained the mid-level exception!
If this isn’t a stroke of genius I’m not sure what is frankly.
Marion looked to be a goner, the team was cash-strapped despite what the most ardent fans would have you believe, and as I wrote yesterday, after the top four guys, this team was essentially a Klingon (Evans), a member of the Borg (Humphries) and the security crew in red shirts from the original Star Trek series.
Now, things are starting to look quite different.
While neither are stars, both Devean George and Antoine Wright are upgrades over…um…nothing, which was in essence what Toronto was working with at the wing positions outside of DeMar DeRozan and Hedo.
Because of his size defensive abilities, I could even see Wright starting at the 2, suddenly giving Toronto a very big starting line-up, with spots 2 through 5 being manned by players 6-7 and over.
The possible arrival of Wright is ironic in fact considering that a) he essentially replaces Joey Graham as another forward from that draft class who has failed to live up to expectations and b) this was a player as one of our readers pointed out, who the master of condescension Doug Smith referred to as being essentially useless and out of the league this season.
Interesting then this morning that suddenly Mr. Smith is referring to him as "serviceable" isn’t it?
Now Toronto’s line-up (including the mid-level) could foreseeably look something like this:
PG: Jose Calderon, Roko Ukic, Marcus Banks
SG: Antoine Wright, Carlos Delfino, DeMar DeRozan,
SF: Hedo Turkoglu, Linas Kleiza, Devean George
PF: Chris Bosh, Reggie Evans, Nathan Jawai
C: Andrea Bargnani, Patrick O’Bryant
That’s a bit better isn’t it?
I plan on looking at the impact of these additions statistically once things become official but on paper, this is already a better scenario than 24 hours ago and don’t expect the Legomaster to rest on his laurels.
In fact looking at that roster, she’s a bit thin up front so I wouldn’t be surprised to see Toronto go after only one of Delfino or Kleiza, and use the rest of the mid-level on a respectable big man. (Rasho?)
I’d still like to see a bit more athleticism added into the mix and perhaps a real back-up PG, but it’s tough to complain much when Colangelo managed to rid the team of Humphries’ contract and fill some gaps all in one fell swoop.
Do I still feel that the team should have waited until next year to sign Andrea?
Yes, this is still something that I can’t understand.
With the salary cap expected to fall sharply, I’m still bewildered as to why you pay Bargs $10 Million now, when you could probably get him for half that next year? It's not like he's going to be an unrestricted free-agent so Toronto can always up the ante to match and based on the league’s financial situation, I’d fall out of my chair if that amount ended up exceeding what they’re presently paying him.
Think about this for a second.
If the cap falls down to the $50 to $53 Million range, that means everything else, mid-level included will drop. This year's restricted free-agents are having serious trouble getting the offers they feel they deserve (see Lee, Millsap and Marvin Williams) mostly because of teams tightening wallets and over-spending on unrestricted free-agents with mediocre upsides like Ben Gordon.
So how bad is it going to be next year when names like James, Wade, Nowitzki and Stoudemire could be available unrestricted?
Does anyone really think that suddenly teams are going to throw $12 Million at Bargs knowing that Toronto could look to match? That scenario hasn’t unfolded this summer with much less talent on the market so I’m not sure why things would suddenly change next summer when there’s LESS money to be had!
Both with that and the Hedo signing I really think that Bryan Colangelo is rolling the dice here but I understand that at times as a GM that’s what you’ve got to do.
Sometimes it results in an over-the-hill Jermaine O’Neal, sometimes it results in drafting Amare Stoudemire.
It’s much easier however for me to swallow said gambles when other more sure-fire pieces are put into place around these moves. The proposed Marion sign-and-trade isn’t alleviating all my concerns, but it’s certainly helping.
In fact, you could argue I think that this could be Bryan Colangelo's best trade yet, one-upping getting something for nothing in the Hoffa deal.
Again, I want to believe that BC’s big moves are indeed shrewd maneuvers that take this team to the top.
He’s made some major changes to last year’s motley crew, and now I’m just hoping for a few more Lego pieces over the next while to really get me excited about next season.
FRANCHISE
95 comments
|
0 recs |
Do you like this story?
Comments
I don't underrstand how you can pay Bargs half of what he got yesterday without making him an unrestricted free agent? You have to qualify him at 8.5 million to retain his rights... thus gambling on signing him for half when up against the rest of the league, who are hoarding cap space (even though it's shrinking by the day) is an unwarranted gamble.
You'll have to better explain how you think Bargs could have been retained for half when the big hole in your argument is a massive 8.5 million qualifying offer.
I just don't think your criticism holds any water this time... you're normally spot on.
Also... major coup by BC!
by lessthanzero on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Goes to show you that you can't believe anything in the media anymore:
1)Hedo deal done in Portland
2)Sign and trade for Marion/Magic dead
I know it's just sports, and listening to the beat writers on the FAN, you understand it's better to be first than right, but I'd wish they'd get one confirmation.
by ustation on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Oh.. and good luck to AP. I was a huge fan of what he provided the Raps but more importantly the two times I've met him, seems like the genuine guy you see on TV.
Hopefully you become more than Candice's Brother. :)
by ustation on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Glad to see some positivity!
That move was pretty nuts! A move like that had been speculated about, but even while admitting it was possible and a clear "best case scenario" -- it was just so damn unlikely.
Many speculated that orlando would be against helping us out, and their gm even suggested as much. However, the TPE could come in handy for them down the stretch if they are in position.
So now we have options!
I believe we still have rights on Delfino and pops.
Plus MLE and LLE - Rasho would be great I think. Some have mentioned the VET min, but I'm not sure that is realistic. LLE might be more likely.
But the big question is how much cash bc wants to spend. We could go right up against the tax - but as was pointed out in the article - they levels are expected to drop, plus we have one or two extensions kicking in as well.
Kleiza would be great - however, with Hedo, George, Wright, delfino and pops all able to play some 3 if needed, that position may be less of a concern.
I guess ukic and banks can play 1 if needed (and I'm a huge ukic fan) - but I'm not sure that they can be relied on for consistant contributions as a back up.
We shall see what BC does! - I still think we are a little while away before we are considered major players, but I am optimistic about what BC can do with some more roster turnover.
Things were looking bleak for a while with the JO and marion moves. But it seems BC has navigated himself toward friendlier seas.
by TJ Caino on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Franchise, get your facts straight about the Barganani deal.
1) He isn't getting $10 million in year 1. He is getting $50 mil over the life of the contract, and each year his salary increases by a certain percentage (I believe the max is around 10%).
2) As Lessthanzero pointed out, they Raps were going to have to offer at least $8.5 million regardless, so its not they overpaid him.
3) Assuming Bargnani stays the exact same player he from game 31 onward (check his stats on basketball reference), the amount of money that the Raps have given him is quite reasonable. Think about it this way, Sammy Dalembert gets $11 million, Darko got a $60 million offer from Memphis a few years a go, hell Marcin Gortat just made $30 million! If a guy is 7 feet tall and has a pulse, someone in the NBA is going to offer him beacoup cash.
Colangelo's moves have been awesome this year. Your statement about the Raps not getting full value for the next 5 years is ridiculous. Obviously, Colangelo believes that Andrea, Bosh (if he stays) are going to improve as players. Since Hedo and Jose are proven dependable (if not always healthy) commodiites, you have to bank on the upside of Barney and Bosh.
Everyone always wants to believe in blowing it up and rebuilding, but isn't that method MUCH MORE risky that hoping that a 26 yr old (who's already 20-10) and a 24 yr old (who can be 20-7) keep improving?
Raptors fans have gotta stop being so negative. I was on the Dallas Morning News site yesterday trying to see if any trade news was breaking, and 99% of the fans on that site thinks this move is going to get them to the Finals. We all know that is unlikely, but show some enthsiams on trust in management for godsakes.
by Young Money on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Lessthanzero - Hmmm...perhaps I'm missing something here but doesn't Toronto have until next summer to decide about Andrea?
From the NBA's salary cap rules:
For 1st-round draft picks, restricted free agency is only allowed after a team exercises its option for a fourth year, and the team makes a Qualifying Offer at the Rookie-scale amount after the fourth year is completed.
So why not wait besides being a show of good faith to Andrea and his agent?
You're right, if Toronto wanted to retain his rights, at that point they'd have to offer the $8.5M, which has been grandfathered in under the last CBA, so retaining him as a restricted free agent would indeed cost at least that much...but only for one season possibly.
David Lee, Paul Millsap and various others this summer may be forced to take that one-year qualifying offer as teams aren't willing to over-bid for their services. And furthermore, those same teams don't want to commit long-term salary so these players in order to get maximum dollars, may indeed have to settle for a one-year deal and try their luck again next off-season.
So to clarify, my point is that I think Toronto would have been better off waiting until next summer to gauge the market and then look to re-sign Andrea, especially given his up and down performance to date.
John Hollinger recently hit this nail on the head as well regarding the issues facing this summer's RFA's:
"In turn, this has to be chilling news if you're Rajon Rondo, Luis Scola, Rudy Gay, LaMarcus Aldridge, Andrea Bargnani, Ronnie Brewer or Foye, all of whom will be restricted free agents next summer if they don't sign extensions by opening day. The restricted free agents in the class of '09 couldn't get a sniff of big money even in a very underwhelming free-agent market; what can they possibly expect a year from now when the likes of LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Dirk Nowitzki and Amare Stoudemire could be available unrestricted?"
by Franchise on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
best move ever by a raps GM and they are going to soon Rasho to be backup center. you can put that in the bank!
by sean on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I think the bargs signing was huge. Hes shown he can improve over the last year and to lock him up for the next 5 or 6 years is great for the franchise despite all this negatively from this site lately. BC worked some majic with some sign and trades and things are looking up. We might have a decent bench!
by derozan10 on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Franchise, what if Andrea keeps improving? What if he averages 21 and 8 next season? If he keeps getting better (NO ONE on this msg board can predict that one way or the other) then the Raps are going to end up paying him more.
In effect the Raps are buying low on Andrea's stock in hopes that he outplays his contract. Getting him locked up in a contract that is less than his Fair Market Value is the key here. If he keeps improving, then at the end of the next season the Raps would have to pay him much more.
by Young Money on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Derozan10 - love the monkier.
Have you gotten a Demar jersey yet? I just ordered mine from center sports.
Long live the King of the Youtube Mix tape, Demar Derozan!
by Young Money on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Quote of the day: "I'm very determinated to become a better player" Bargs.
Love it! Looks like I need to replace my AP jersey.
by NC on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Re: Bargnani - You've also got to consider the fact that half of the league is hoarding cap space for next summer in anticipation of going after Lebron/Wade/Bosh/Amare/Dirk etc. But the reality is at least a couple of those guys will probably re-sign, so there will only be 2 or 3 teams that actually cash in on the superstar sweepstakes.
Let's say Bargnani has a good season, and continues to build off of last year's finish.
If I'm the GM of a team that misses out on the superstars, I still have a bunch of cap space, and there's a young guy on the market that's capable of putting up 20+ per game and presents a boatload of matchup problems for defenders, I would probably go higher than $10 mil for him.
Lee, Millsap, etc. are struggling to get contracts that they think they are worth because a lot of teams have operated in recent years with the goal of having money available in 2010. That's why NY won't give Lee what he's worth.
The cap might go down next summer, but a lot of GMs are still going to have deep pockets, and if Andrea has a good year this year we would then be facing the possibility of losing him and Bosh.
by TM Williamson on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Watching yesterday's press conference a few things became quite clear to me.
Firstly, that Bryan/Mauricio have done everything, including firing Smitch strictly on how he was ruining Andrea's development and confidence, in order to make him maximize his potential. Having picked him #1, followed him since I think he was 14 or so, it is evident that they project Andrea to not only make the all star team in the next 2-3 years, but to stay at that level. They also felt that locking Andrea up would do even more for his confidence and help his development. We are not on the inside of what is going on, but I am O.K. with the deal, given where Andrea will be in terms of his progression. If the 2nd half of last year is the best he will be, then I agree that it was a bad signing at this point, but I do not expect that to happen.
This was not just a matter of $ and cents, it runs deeper than the financial env't we are heading into. Andrea is their pet project, and Smitch would still be the Raptors head coach had he not realized that it was in his best interest to develop him, and not bury him, as he did.
Franchise, Bryan is more than aware of the financial landscape in the NBA that is coming, but this decision factored that all in.
by Brian Gerstein on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
this all relates to what i said when we drafted andrea.... he did so assuming bosh would leave and andrea is his replacement... i said that from day 1 and it is now forming into play...
thanks
by Blanco on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Your assessment of the Bargs signing sounds like you have a one track mind on this, and all that matters is the money. Brian hit the nail on the head. This extension goes deeper than just dollars and cents.
If you recall Bargs has had confidence issues, especially before Triano. But now he's doing great, and re-signing him is good for Bargs mindset, he has no worries off the court about contract security. He can focus on his development and his playing, rather than the business side of it.
BUT, where this signing really should make an impact is with Bosh. Waiting until next year to re-sign Bargs, to see if they can get him 'cheap' would send a horrid sign to Bosh. Do you really want him thinking this franchise is cheap? Not willing to spend cash to put a contender on the floor. The Bargs signing getting done this quickly, and for that money sends a msg to Bosh in that they make it clear they want to win, will pay to win, and will put in the work to make this team a winner (add the trade to that one too).
You wait until next summer and CB4 is questioning your commitment to long-term winning. BC re-signing Bargs under the radar, quickly and without any hesitation, shows CB4 that they have their ish together, and are determined to put a winner on the hardwood.
BC can say all he wants, but it's clear by his offseason actions that he knows to Bosh that actions speak much louder than words. And BC has been LOUD.
by Scott on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Do you think Antoine Wright will be starting? I haven't watched enough of his game to know for sure, but is he better than Delfino?
Hypothetically it makes sense for them to sign Delfino, sign Kleiza to backup Hedo, and Bring in Rasho. Takes them to 15 on the roster.
Now it's not so much Marcus Banks money as it is the roster spot he takes up with a guaranteed contract. Pops would be more useful as a backup 4 than Banks. Even a Ronnie Price would be a nice add in place of banks. Waiting to see what the final makeup of the roster is.
One thing that a serviceable to solid bench provides is better practices. The upgrade in bench talent potentially upgrades the preparedness of the starters because they are facing better practice mates.
Remember last year how there were many times we complained about how the Raptors didn't look prepared. Maybe this addresses that somewhat
by Interloper on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with my colleague above about all the work that Colangelo has put in. I think that if the Raptors manage to put everything together, sign Rasho, Delfino, and Kleiza, you have a fairly good lineup with cap flexibility in the next year and another MLE to use up. For my money, the core is decidedly European, and the other pieces (other than Banks) aren't too bloated. I'm pretty comfortable going into the year kinda like this. To me, Colangelo is aiming more for a rebuild of 2006-2007 than a purely athletic team, and I'm ok with that.
As for Barg's contract, I've felt $10 Million is right, even though he possibly could have gotten into a bargain situation next year. In my opinion, most centers in the NBA have inflated contracts and Bargnani's is not outrageous. I think it's also important to secure him because a player of his ilk could potentially command a lot in the open market.
by Vicious D on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Scott makes a good point about actions speaking louder than words in terms of what CB4 and his handlers are seeing develop over the last week or so right in front of their eyes. How can they not be impressed with the current makeup of the Raptors roster and what is still to come before the season starts.
If Bryan is to be taken at his word, and that is that he wants Chris signed to a max deal, and how he understands how to do so he had to build a better team around him, then mission accomplished.
Would it not make sense now for Chris to sign now, knowing that he can make the most money with the best terms with the financial landscape of the NBA going the wrong way, lock up that money in case he has an ACL injury that can end his career, not to mention that he has had a number of injuries and missed games to date, plus he would be on an up and coming team as well, that also drafted a potential future star as well.
At this point, Bosh is the one who should be begging the Raptors to sign the deal now, and not wait until 2010 ends. With or without him, we are holding all the cards, as we have the nucleus now even without Bosh of a playoff team.
With a healthy Calderon this year, plus some help to come behind him, I foresee a 50+ win season as long as we stay healthy and can learn to play team defense, as that is the one area that still concerns me.
by Brian Gerstein on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Don't usually comment but felt compelled to here because I'm not sure why people keep bringing up freaking Dalembert and Darko as comparisons.
Folks, those are BAD CONTRACTS.
Why not compare to players like Tayshaun Prince, much more efficient players who are making just about the same amount now as Andrea?
And the sad thing is, statistically some of those bad contract guys like Dalembert have performed BETTER than Andrea. I think it was Hollinger but didn't he say that Andrea was the least effective player in the league a year ago? (Someone can correct me if I've got the source wrong.)
And one thing I remember for sure, is that recently when espn ranked the top draft pick busts of all time, Andrea was behind only Olowokandi, Darko, Kwame and Adam Morrison.
Come on folks, let's not suffer from leafs-itis. Andrea still has lots of upside but this contract is no "sure deal."
by toomanyhomers on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I see your point now Franchise...
It seems to be a damned if you and damned if you don't regarding Bargs and the restrictions of the current CBA.
And more time evaluate his worth is a good argument.
I just don't think it would have been possible to get Bargs for less than his qualifying offer under any circumstance... without playing dangerously with unrestricted free agency.
It really is too bad the old CBA had Bargs' rights penciled in at 8.5 million... I will admit he's not worth it... yet... but I think it's fair to admit that BC's options didn't really improve next summer as he'd have two major question marks to deal with as opposed to just one: Bosh.
Damned if you do... and damned if you don't.
Now it's up to Bargs to reward BC's faith.
It's really too bad the CBA doesn't have a way to correct salaries when the cap goes down... for example... the can decreases by 5%... everyone loses 5% of their salary. Salaries based on percentages... that way when teams are up against the cap and have to sign restricted free agents with inflated qualifying offers determined by better financial conditions in previous years, they won't be unfairly backed in to a corner. I think everyone loses in this situation.
by lessthanzero on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Too Many Homers, you are the kind of hater that holds back the Raptors fanbase.
1) No one is saying that Sammy D and Darko are good contracts, they are examples of how teams lose their minds and give ridiculous contracts to guys who are 7 feet tall (Adonal Foyle earned $9 million a one point, ADONAL FOYLE!)
2) Hollinger is really hit and miss because he doesn't watch teams like the Raps. According to Hollinger Jamario Moon and Hump were 2 of the Raptors best players. Do you believe that? If you do, then you should be forbidden from watching ANY NBA basketball games ever again.
3) Andrea's deal represents the market for a guy with his size and ability. Franchise is killing it because he thinks the Raps could have gotten him cheaper next season. But for the Raps to get him cheaper it would imply that he has gotten worse, and in that scenario, why even sign him? Franchise is suffering from some hateritis (understandable given the JO fiasco), but he is dead wrong about the Barney signing.
Vicious D - I am actually anti Delfino at this point. The BIGGEST reason that the 2006-2007 team was so solid was due to the fact that the Raps could get 48 mins of top flight PG play.
I say screw Delfino (since we have Wright and George, and maybe even Klieza), and the Raps should target Jarrett Jack to come in and back up Jose.
by Young Money on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
John Hollinger recently hit this nail on the head as well regarding the issues facing this summer's RFA's:
"In turn, this has to be chilling news if you're Rajon Rondo, Luis Scola, Rudy Gay, LaMarcus Aldridge, Andrea Bargnani, Ronnie Brewer or Foye, all of whom will be restricted free agents next summer if they don't sign extensions by opening day. The restricted free agents in the class of '09 couldn't get a sniff of big money even in a very underwhelming free-agent market; what can they possibly expect a year from now when the likes of LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh, Dirk Nowitzki and Amare Stoudemire could be available unrestricted?"
I think Hollinger is forgetting one important factor in his analysis. Teams are hoarding money this year to spend next year. If there are 15 teams bidding for 5 marquee names then the 10 teams that miss out will have a lot of money to spend on the 10 next-best guys. With a good year this season Bargnani could put himself in that group. Toronto could easily end up forking over a lot more than 10 mil/season to keep him if they wait until next year.
by Dave W on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I'm actually not opposed to Jack. Delfino has just been mentioned, but to be honest, I think Kleiza is enough of a back up at the wing, Rasho is a good backup at the bigs, and that leaves a backup at PG... I'm just kinda convinced that Colangelo believes Delfino can be a crack PG if need be, kinda like AP was last year..
All things being equal, I'm not a Delfino supporter. Haven't been since he was signed and showed no change in his game from Detroit. I'm just not sure Colangelo will look elsewhere. Good on him if he does though.
by Vicious D on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Vicious D - totally agree that Delfino is the main name out there, but that was before the Raps got Wright and George. It sounds like Indy is making a run at either Felton or Andre Miller, so Jack could be had.
I think if they bring in Jack and Klieza, and you pair those 2 with Demar, Evans, and maybe Rasho, the 2nd unit gets a very nice balance to it.
I think Delfino has been the name out there because of the lack of wings on the roster, but that really isn't a problem anymore.
I think we should all be on the look out for backup PG rumors!
by Young Money on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Great points here today and some that I never considered.
Dave W, Brian and Scott - Next offseason is going to be very interesting. I get the feeling that the big names are going to stay put so you're right, if that's the case then there may indeed be a lot of teams looking around and saying "now what?" That means they may indeed over-bid for Andrea and if he does have a complete break-out season, then BC is in trouble.
It's definitely a gamble each way but that's why Bryan Colangelo is wearing the high-collared suits!
I've given my take, and now we'll have to wait till next summer to see just how good of a deal this signing was.
And Eric Smith talked about this a bit yesterday on the Fan590, but perhaps with the new cap situation, Bosh, Wade and Lebron re-think opting out next summer and sign the extension now so that they can get max dollars...plus are grandfathered into the next CBA?
One final thought - I'd love to see BC make a play with the mid-level for Marvin Williams instead of splitting things up between Delfino or Kleiza and someone else. Not sure if that's enough money for Williams' liking, but maybe BC can get creative again to pull it off. It's obviously a long-shot but a starting 5 of Andrea, Bosh, Marvin, Hedo and Jose would present some major match-up problems for clubs.
by Franchise on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Interloper, Antoine Wight started on the becnxh for the first part of last yr and ended up finishing the season a s astarter; he started 53 games. His inclusion in the starting line up wa sbec of his ability to defend the opposing teams best SG &/or SF. I saw abt 15 Dallas games last year and he was solid defensively but had nothing to offer offensively. His shot is terrible and his dribbling is below average. Right now he is strictly a defender but definately a starter in this league. At 25yrs old, this is an excellent acquisition by BC.
by Member29 on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Interloper, Antoine Wight started on the becnxh for the first part of last yr and ended up finishing the season a s astarter; he started 53 games. His inclusion in the starting line up wa sbec of his ability to defend the opposing teams best SG &/or SF. I saw abt 15 Dallas games last year and he was solid defensively but had nothing to offer offensively. His shot is terrible and his dribbling is below average. Right now he is strictly a defender but definately a starter in this league. At 25yrs old, this is an excellent acquisition by BC.
by Member29 on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
It's not only Hollinger who is down on Andrea Bargnani. Check out Dave Berri's Wages of Wins at the midpoint of the 2008/09 season and scroll down to #389:
http://www.wagesofwins.com/AllPlayerMid0809.html
Now look at the players surrounding him. Hardly a list of NBA stars (unless you are still rocking a Mike James Raptors jersey).
Granted, Bargnani may have improved his stock a bit with his 2nd half performance - but he's still nowhere near being an above average player in the NBA. And if you're going to construct an argument to the contrary, please bring more to the table than "he averaged 20ppg" in the second half of the season.
I'll be very happy to eat my words if Bargnani develops into an All-Star talent (and by All-Star, I mean Dirk Nowitzki territory not Jamal Magloire). But right now that doesn't seem realistic.
by Geoff on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
This has to be the very best transaction of the Raptors Franchise, ever.
BEFORE, sign Turk $53/5 will, lose all Rap's FA's, lose MLE, BAE, able only to sign MIN contracts for at most $500/1.3mil, very weak reserves/backups.
AFTER, trade Turk $53/5 mil, rec new,SG and SF by moving a surplus PF and combo guard,
able to sign own FA's, and have the MLE and BAE to sign others FA's, to the tax level if he wishes.
As an added feature, everybody wins, Cuban, Dallas, Marion, his agent, Memphis, & Orlando, if this deal is approved by the NBA.
And a not insignificent thing, all the free, positive, exposure Colangelo, Toronto and the Raptors have recieved throughout this transaction.
by Johnn19 on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I gotta say I love BCs moves... but we need to wait until and see who else ends up signing before we get too excited.
I still don't think this team is deep enough. D. George is a waste of space... I used to like the guy but after the Kidd fiasco something changed with him. He went from a reliable and serviceable player to an absolutely attrocious shooter overnight.
Wright I'm not sure on... he seems hit or miss (very Joey G.) Can't say anyting good or bad until i see him hit the floor in a Raps jersey.
DD we still have to wait on. Everyone is talking like he is a proven NBA talent already. This guy could be a superstar... or could be a bust.... or could just be ok.
Plus - still some backup PG worries and back up big worries.....
All said I do like this teams progression... I'm just saying lets not take our pants off yet.... she might look like a 9, but we could still be real drunk with excitement
by Swirskys Soldier on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
wow...crazy 24hrs in raptorland that changes the landscape completely if it all pans out!
ok, i know this will be seen as the stupidest suggestion ever, but bear with me...
The Raps two biggest problems now...scoring from the backcourt and a backup PG.
...Take the MLE and throw it at Mr Allen Iverson and see what happens.
Calderon, AI, Hedo, Bosh, Bargs...with a fairly good bench behind them. AI controls the ball, the only guy that negatively affects is Calderon, and he is adaptable and willing to roll with the punches.
If its not working out at the All Star break...send him home...if it is working out at the All Star break...ill pre order my championship hat.
Of course, AI wouldn't come here, and BC would never make this move...but I can dream...
by jigga on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Geoff - I'm not sure how every stat is calculated, but there's a lot more to Bargs than just his offensive production, in my opinion. He's starting to become a player that gives some intangibles thanks to his quick foot movement, increasing defense, ability to make smart passes, and an ability to score in all three ranges, using all three types of moves.
Not to mention he can and has taken clutch shots and is one of the few slashers (and will continue to be one of our only slashers) for the foreseeable future.
by Vicious D on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Jigga..... AI is a dirty word in my books. I think you can get banned for using such bad language.
by Swirskys Soldier on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Thanks for the info on Wright Member29. I guess his starting would make sense then. In your opinion is he better than Delfino as a starter though (who is adequate to solid defensively and based on your assessment of Wright probably better offensively)? Having a starting 5 where every member has to be paid attention to opens things up for everyone else.
Additionally, how much playing time do you allot to him for the year remaining on his contract knowing you want to develop DeRozan and it wouldn't make sense to relegate Delfino to third string unless he's backing up both 2 and 3. I guess you could simply sign Delfino and not try to sign Kleiza or use the money to sign insurance at the backup PG spot.
by Interloper on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Totally agree with you YOUNG MONEY..The Raps have the most pessimistic set of fans I have ever seen, they are always looking for something negative and Franchise with all his basket ball knowledge is one of them. It takes a genius to pull of what Calongelo just did and I can see why this guy was GM of the year. But no matter what he does there will always be the Toronto fans that thinks he is over paying, he did not do enough, waiting for his next move, what the hell do you guys want. Lets get behind the moves he is the GM you are just an analyst that would never be GM of a basketball team. I myself love these moves. Wright and George are tough defenders also so from not having a 3 to having 3 pretty good 3 counting DD. I am totally impress with BC. Now to satisfy all you basketball fans with your leafs mentality lets hope the other Brian can pull of the same type of deal...Go BC go Raps...09/10 RAPS FOR LIFE
by RAPS4LIFE on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I don't think we'll have to pay Delfino out of the MLE.
We don't have to renounce his rights because of the trade, so we can re-up him, and still get the MLE (and biannual as well)....since even with Turkoglu we were still 10 million or so under the luxury tax
by Sales on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I never understood the freakout about Turkgolu, this is sweet...the roster will be different still on opening day once the stiff Patrick O'Bryant is let go as well....you'll see, he was just insurance in case the A plans fizzled.
by DayOner on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Young Money: Well said.
Franchise you just seem off base here on the Bargnani situation. I for one believe in 2 years we will all be talking about what a bargain he is for the remainder of his contract.
And for that matter the Williams signing which you suggested just doesn't seem like the right fit. Hedo at the 2?
Anyways, the 4 team deal is just a great move by BC. No negatives. (How the hell did someone take Humpty Hump?) Hasn't anyone noticed that his hands sweat superglue. Poor kid
by Sharpy on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I am really impressed by BC's ability to get things done. I am not always a fan of the players he chooses, but I love his ability to get what he wants done and his willingness to recognize his moves as mistakes.
I am not going to go into one of my longwinded dump Bosh rants at the moment, but I would be all the more comfortable with the Bargnani signing if the Raptors are planning on grooming him to be the feature player like they did a few years ago with Bosh when they let Vince go.
by JBen on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Franchise, Time to relax and enjoy what BC has pulled off. Your points about the AB signing are a little close minded. First even if the cap goes down a lot next year it'll go up again in subsequent years. Next summer there's more money to be had because so many teams are clearing cap space to try and get one of the big boys (you should include CB in that list)and the losers will be looking for the next tier of players. Also if AB has a great year this year his cost would have gone up next summer. Signing him now was a smart move and hopefully helps CB decide to stay.
by Gary on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
sometimes you have to roll hard sevens, and that's a no brainer for colangelo ... I don't love every piece, but I love 2 things:
-an acknowledgement that major changes had to be done, but it's too soon to abandon the core investment
-depth, precious depth
The one glaring issue in my mind, pg, we're still screwed there. That's why I was hoping to get AP back... though it's still possible...
Really enjoying everyone's comments, this is more exciting than all of last season!
by axl on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Delfino will be a better 'backup' PG than Parker anyway....and think of the size of our team with Delifno at the 1...
by Sales on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
http://dimemag.com/2009/07/the-most-bloated-contract-of-the-offseason/
Mark Cuban strikes again!
by lurker on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
geoff and toomanyhomers, are you guy serious? have you guys ever watched a raptor game. bargnani was probably our best player, slightly behind bosh and is continuing to improve greatly. i hate how people take nba writers analysts and believe everything they say and argue on this site because of what the writers wrote.
"I think it was Hollinger but didn't he say that Andrea was the least effective player in the league a year ago?"- the key word in this was A YEAR AGO. no, not last season a year ago when bargs struggled right? well if you watched any raptor games this season you can understand why bargs deserves a much better contract because well, he played great. pretty damn great in my opinion who impressed me more than bosh just sulking on the bench while bargs lit it up most nights.
bargnani was great when oneal left averaging sweet numbers, and i believe we got a relatively cheap deal on him for 5 years. lets remember that these nba writers dont watch every game and evaluate a players efficiency like we raptor fans do. so before you suggest that we are homers for liking the deal bc gave to bargs, i suggest you watch more raptor games, because im sure you will understand why we see the potential in him to become at least a 20 and 8 player, an all-star in my books and in most REAl raptor fans book's too.
call us whatever you want as homers, but you are just a pessimist who relies on others opinions (who only look at the stats, which DONT prove everything) and use it as an argument. and next time you look for evidence to prove your point, look at the dates before you start ranting about the stupid mistakes bc has made.
by tea time on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
So far I love ALL of these moves. BC has definitely surprised and delighted.
I'm still hoping there is a spot for a tough as nails guy like Matt Barnes on this squad. He'd be a definite upgrade from D.George and could probably play the 2 as well.
Definitely agree that with the MLE back in play (eat your words Doug Smith) looking at options for backup PG and C are definitely important.
Sorry to see the Matrix go, one of my favourite hustle players....Love what he brings....but this lineup is starting to get me pumped!
GO RAPS!!!!
by mcclarky on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I don't know if BC goes for a back-up PG.
It's well known that Hedo has a good handle and can be a point forward, Delfino can also run some point... I think BC focuses on other areas of need before PG.
by lessthanzero on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
lessthanzero - if anything happens to Calderon during the season I don't think BC is going to look to Turk or Delfino to be the filler. It just makes sense to get a true PG if at all possible.
by mcclarky on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
tea time
Have no problem with the Bargs signing.
But let’s see Bargs do it for 3-4 YEARS not just half a season before you go praising him and dissin Bosh. Hard to avg 20 and 10 just sulking on the bench.
What games were you watching ?
by taylor on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Still not a fan of the hedo contract but its hard not to get excited about the upcoming season for sure - great moves by bc on the marion front and hopefull now the team can grab some help at the 1, the only spot i think that still needs a major upgrade.
by fromlongrange on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
The team is looking pretty good, but back up PG is not the only hole to fill.
The team does not really have a go to post player in my opinion. Bosh and Bargs can both really score the ball, but neither are exceptional on the block if they are not picked up by a small forward or poor defensive player. The team could also use a big man that is a better help defender.
by JBen on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
i didnt mean it like that, bosh is good dont get me wrong, i still listed him as the best player this season, but lets be honest, this was not one of his best seasons and he started to regress as the season went on. some said it was probably due to the fact that he had family issues about his daughter and his girlfriend but this year was just not that great compared to his previous years. now i understand bargs has only played great for about half a season, but lets also add in the fact he had to come up from the bench to back up o'neal, which likely affected his confidence but also reduced his time to showcase his skills. (although i do believe o'neal helped him become a much better defender and low-post scorer, which he still practicing on). but bargs has been playing really well in the recent games, and isnt that what matters most, how he has improved drastically. and im sure it will continue to 3-4 years from now. he's still very young and he's still improving. he has plenty of room to grow and just wait until he hits his prime like bosh should be heading next season, which i believe will be awesome as he now has better (skill-wise) teammates.
and i think its important to show trust in our players, giving this contract shows bargs that the team is committed to him and want him to succeed. trust me, this only builds up his confidence which most hq readers agrred was his achilles heel, just behind his defense and rebounding lol but im sure with this confidence everything will come into place.
but well see
by tea time on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
i mean worst seasons compared to his previous awesome seasons.
by tea time on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
what im trying to explain is that i and maybe others noticed that bosh has just quit, the lossed were increasing and the season seemed forever. he just didnt seem the same knowing the raps were not heading to the playoffs, like he wasnt trying anymore, while bargnani kept playing his ass off trying to prove his worth, and it has been noticed.
by tea time on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Ok so since I've been doing such a good job of playing the grinch lately, I'm going to keep things rolling here.
Doug Smith just reported that it's Jawai being included in this deal and not Douby because of CBA restrictions on Douby's contract.
Suddenly, not so happy about this.
Why?
Well, not because Jawai was of much value, I'd rather have Douby anyways, but because Toronto reached on this pick in the first place when there were other NBA-ready options around, AND turned down three second-round picks to select him!
And now he's just thrown into this deal after all that?
by Franchise on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Aaaaand, I won't let Franchise kill my buzz. The deal's done, I'm happy that we got rid of a slow, slow player, and Bryan turned Jawai into signing space. Still do the deal no matter what
by Vicious D on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
If Jawia is in the deal then we would really need to go out there and get a "Big" for insurance. I know the Bobcats were shopping Mohammed last season but no one would take his awful contract. I'd definately explore Banks&George for Mohammed.
It would give the Bobcats a little money to spend next off season because George comes off the books. It would also give the Raps an experienced BIG for insurence and at 6mil, a nice expiring contract to use in a trade down the road. We'd also clear up roster spaces to go get a reliable backup PG and add Klieza & Delfino (not a big fan of Delfino coming back but sounds like BC is sold on him).
by Member29 on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Anyone know if the 4 pm Press Conf. is gonna be streamed live on raps.com. The Bargs 1 yesterday wasnt , im @ work till 5 pm and was hoping i'll be able to watch this. ?
Thx in advance
by ICE T on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
tea time -- just trying to figure out where Bosh "regressed" last season:
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/chris_bosh/career_stats.html
His stats the past four seasons are pretty consistent across the board.
by Geoff on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
1) Bargnani's extension does not kick in until the season after this one. If he is not playing like a $10M/season player by then, then Colangelo/Gherardini are out to lunch on his potential.
2) Next season, the Raptors starting SG needs to be able to hit open shots. Other than that, he should be a defensive demon with size. Nothing else, besides not turning over the ball or taking offensive fouls, is required of him.
by Dave W on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Franchise,
Centers are the 1 position player that GMs are willing to risk Big Money to secure every year. Centers who can score are rare in the extreme.
If Bargs was available next season, teams like the Thunder, & the Grizzles, who don't expect to have a shot at a big name, but have big cap room, could and likely would put BCo under the gun with a big offer to Bargs!
Way too much risk for BCo to be taking. Tying up Bargs at a 2/3s of max # number is a reasonable calculated risk and likely to prove genius.
BCo has a legit shot at EOY for the Hedo trade and Bargs extension.
by Steve on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
nooooooooooo! we included a 2016 2nd round draft pick lol..
by paul on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
raptorshq is gonna get its media privileges revoked if you keep up this attitude. lol.
by Daniel on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Franchise...wow...I hope that not liking it because we "gave up Jawai who we could have flipped for 3 SECOND ROUNDERS" bit was simply to stoke conversation because I can't really believe you're down on this deal now.
If I were born in Pomona California on April 28, 1981 I might have spent my childhood growing up with Jessica Alba. Who knows, we might be married by now. But we're not.
You seem to have developed this, how do I say this given my respect for your work, obsession with second round picks of late. The likelihood of realizing quality contribution from second rounders is pretty low, making the anomalies (Milsap, Arenas, Redd) stand out more, but, honestly.
You are down on this because the flexibility cost us 3 second rounders? Really? We have money in a down market where quality is available at good price. Really?
We are presented with known quantities and the prospect of bettering our team now. That's better than any end of the bench project with potential. Sometimes potential is not realized and opportunity is lost.
Respectfully disagree
by Interloper on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
If Anderson Varejao with his 42 starts is getting $50M over 6, suddenly Hedo's looking pretty good.
by ustation on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Franchise, I have to agree with Interloper on this one as well. Once the Raptors screwed up by not realizing that Douby could not be part of the deal, they had to come up with someone else who was palatable to Dallas/Memphis, and they did. It is a bit part in the overall tremendous coup we pulled off, and the other parties are happy with what they got as well, so no worries. Colangelo made some sweet tasting lemonade out of some rotten lemons, and I still am amazed how he pulled it off. Would I rather have Nate and the 2016 2nd rounder instead of Douby, sure, but in the scheme of things, it is no big deal.
Between this and your Bargnani extension comments, you are certainly getting tons of replies on your site, as most people are vehemently taking exception to them, but that is cool, as we are all hard-core Raptor fans, and look at the team differently.
by Brian Gerstein on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
ok geoff, you think stats prove everything. take a good look at bargnani stats and tell me how he's not an above average player.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/andrea_bargnani/career_stats.html
now lets compare him to tayshaun prince, who one reader suggested to be compared to bargs, who most in the nba know is a pretty darn good player and is well above just an average nba player, whatever that means. (and if you dont agree then your just plain nuts) they both recieve around 50mil for 5 years.
http://www.nba.com/playerfile/tayshaun_prince/career_stats.html
now how is it that their stats are so comparible with even bargnani's slightly better than prince, but he's allowed to recieve the 10 mil a season. stats dont prove everything, bargnani did more than just score 20 points, he became better overall. and how can u not accept bargs' avg of 20 points half the season (actually it was more than half)do u not believe players can actually become better. its not like he started avg 20 at the beginning he started doing it as the season went on until it ended, which shows that he has learned his position in the nba and knows how to play.
and before you go on and try change the subject to "how bosh regressed" well at the beggining of the season, wasnt it he who was waving his hands up in the air trying to gain momentum when fans screamed "MVP". what happened to all of that near the end of the season? we were a 47 win team to a 41 to a 33. you should also consider that stat when analyzing a team heavily dependant on bosh to lead them to victories, where all plays are formed around him. im not saying he has regressed greatly but if you actually watched any of the games, you could see him regress mentally was just not into the game as much as he was at the beginning of the season and was relying more on his jumpers than actually attacking the rim.
by tea time on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Gotta go with Interloper and Gerstein on this one. I see no downside to this deal. In fact, drifting into man crush territory here, this is why it pays to have a savvy GM like BC. This is where he earns his executive of the year kudos.
This was an extremely complicated deal he orchestrated, one beyond most GM's. And I can't think of how the Raptors could have fared better.
We're worried about Jawai and a distant second round pick? Seriously? 2016 pick? Put it this way, if BC had played it safe and not made such a grand move he would have been cashing a cheque from another team in 2016.
Oh and $50 million to Bargs and Hedo compared to $50 million for Varejao ... that's not even close. Well done again BC. Where can I get a poster of this guy in a high collared shirt?
by Silverback on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
lets see rob babcock pull something like this!!
by homer2004 on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
The one interesting tidbit that Bryan threw out there was that CB4 had made a call to Turk last Friday in order to let him know how much he wanted him on the team, and how much of a valued teamate he would be.
I find this important on one basic level, that Chris is being kept in the loop with Bryan, and since Bryan went out of his way to say that Chris is very pleased with recent developments, it is now pretty obvious that Bryan will be pushing hard for Chris to sign his extension, similar to Andrea's, at the earliest possible opportunity.
Secondly, Bryan considers this to be Chris's team, and in a perfect world, he would like to see that continue.
The $64,000 question really is the way that the Raptors are now assembled, with some more moves to come, as Bryan just alluded to, are we going to be a team capable of actually competing for a championship, or a playoff contender not to be taken too seriously year in and year out. Is CB4 with superior talent around him capable of raising his game more entering his peak years? I have my doubts, but after what Bryan has pulled off this week, will give him the benefit of the doubt, and am now on the sign CB4 bandwagon, even though I have my concerns.
by Brian Gerstein on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I have no idea how BC managed to swing this deal, but hat's off. All of a sudden we have a bench, Bargs has been locked up for five years, and the best free agent in this year's class is now a Raptor.
Even if Jawai is gone, are we really hurting for big men? Bargs, Bosh, Evans, maybe O'Bryant - I'm not sure how much he would have played. And Douby may have still have a future as instant offence off the bench.
I imagine Devean George is just trade filler at this point in his career, although he was a pretty active defender in his prime. Wright could be an interesting prospect, but if he can provide solid defence, I think there's more than enough scoring on this team to compensate for his relative lack of touch.
by Skywalker on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I wanted to address the Hollinger stats and Wages of Win numbers. You have to remember that his lower than average rebounding numbers for his position is what really drags Bargnani down. The stats don't lie but they don't always tell the full truth. In this case the issue is the lack of rebounding by a 7 foot centre. The reality is that Bargnani's game is actually closer to a 2 guard or SF as he prefers to generate his offense from the 3 point line and drive rather than on the block. Defensively he also has a tendency to tap the ball out from under the basket as opposed to grabbing boards which effects his overall rebounding numbers. I think that Bargnani's rebounding numbers will never improve much (he might get it up to 7 a game) so he will always take a hit on the Hollinger scale and other systems that use simple stats as their baseline. Basketball stats are still in their infancy so it is imposible to measure every player on the same scale because they all bring different things to the table.
If the trade holds (with Dallas/Memphis/orlando) I feel a little better about their lineup. There are still holes to be filled and I hope BC doesn't waste MLE on Rasho. I would rather they took a stab at Leon Powe or Brandon Bass (I know they probably wouldn't sign here but I like their ages better). In fact, there are a large number of VLE type centres who can provide more grit than Rasho does and that is what this team still needs more of.
I would also like to see an attempt to sign CJ Watson from Golden state as a potential back up for Calderon. Worse case and GS trys to match, maybe we can convince them to take Ukic as a cheaper option.
by McGateway on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
For the love of God - how can anyone who regularily visits this site, thus a Raptor fan who watches the game, seriously say Bargnani has been the least efficient player in the league last 3 years.
McGateway sums it up.
by Tinman on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Rasho is one of my all-time fav Raps - but I want Big Baby.
by Tinman on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
This site features sports best complicated bromance. Let's hope we're all hugging it out with a Raptor playoff series win this season.
by NC on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
So, several things that I don't think are completely clear, but here we go:
My understanding is that qualifying offers were rescinded earlier last week, but I'm not sure whether that makes certain people RAs or URAs (Pops, Delfino, and Parker).
Bird Rights are available, so even if Delfino or Parker are signed, it's my understanding that the MLE is still available for yet another person, along with the BiAnual Exemption make for the exemptions available.
Conceivably, then, the Raptors could resign Delfino and Parker, and still have a full MLE to spend.
At least that's my understanding, though I'll have to double check it. Talked with Eric Smith about it for a bit.
by Vicious D on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
So scratch that.
AP Qualifies for Larry Bird
Pops and Delfino do not cause they haven't been with the team for 3 years.
by Vicious D on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I do not think that the Raptors ended up renouncing their rights to anyone or rescinding their offer to Pops (still a restricted FA). They did not have to because they inherited the rights to Turk when he was swapped for Marion. I think they could go over the cap to sign their own free agents (but they could sign elsewhere) and can use their MLE and BAE on other players if they want to.
by JBen on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
the bird rights should still be attached to Delfino, because he was traded from Detroit (they only disappear when you sign as a free agent)....
by Daniel on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
The Raptors still need a guy who could be a respectable back up point guard. I would say someone like Jarret Jack would be a good fit considering that him and Bosh played at Georgia Tech together. Also another big man needs to be put up for the Raps to add dept to their lineup. If i were BC i'd stop running for Kleiza and look into Gooden and Wilcox. These two can do what the Raptors couldn't; rebound!
by rapsfan on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Any body got an NBA league pass? Apparently it cost 14.99USD to watch the summer league games. Can anyone provide a link for the games?
by Member29 on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Kudos to BC for looking for that elusive third option. Equal credit has to go to Mark Cuban for helping push this thing through with Memphis. I had expected one of Dallas' unsigned draft picks from overseas, perhaps one that Maurizio had scouted first hand, and some cash as Toronto's bounty from this. Preventing the loss of the MLE was a masterstoke. Hump and Jawai for Antoine Wright and Devean George adds some useful expiring contracts. Member29's less then glowing review of Wright matches up with what I'd read in print over the season. Was one of those jack of all trades master of none players out of college, and never refined an NBA level skill. He doesn't have the imposing athleticism, quickness, or wingspan to be an athletic stopper/finisher, which is a team need from the wings. If he lacks that PLUS can't reliably knock down the open jumper he's nothing more then a minute eating stopgap. He's still worthwhile, as another body on the depth chart between DeRonzen and starting. Devean is a big guy, could offer resistance in spot minutes against larger SF. The big question now is can we get back in the sweepstakes for Delfino and Kleiza. They both likely focused more attention on other suitors once word broke that Turk was TO bound. Combine that with the fact that quite a few FA dominos have already fell, in regards to MLE signings such as Rasheed, McDyess, and Dauntey Jones. I think that Kleiza's game is somewhat similar to James Johnson, a player who cracked the Raptors top 3 draft board. With Hump out the door, and Evans offensively challenged, there are opportunities for Kleiza at the 4, in addition to minutes backing up Turk. When his positional flexibility is combined with Delfino's coverage of SG/SF/PG, we've got depth at three to four positions covered between two reasonably priced players, tremendous value when one has 2010 cap worries looming. The available 2009 FA pool is shallow when it comes to young veteran athletes, ones that could grow with our core. Best to either shop the trade market using our newfound expirings for longer deals to satisfy that need.
by yardly on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Some more food for thought for those who think 6-7 rpg out of their $50 million starting centre will translate into an NBA Finals appearance or title:
http://thepaintedarea.blogspot.com/2009/01/importance-of-good-board-scores-part-ii.html
Again, I'll be happy if it all works out for BC and crew -- but the reality is you need rebounding and perimeter defence to play winning basketball.
by Geoff on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
They could have gambled and gotten Andrea at a cheaper deal next yr, but why not lock him up now at a reasonable price, than take a chance that he continues to develop and suddenly becomes closer to a max player. I really like this deal...MAYBE you could have gotten him next year for $9mi...but it could have just as easily been $12 or more.
And BC is a genius for the Marion trade. He now has some cap room, some more assets (2 expirings now), looking forward to seeing what else he can do with the roster.
lessthanzero - good pt about the qualifying offer.
by namediscrep on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I have to chime in on Andrea.
Andrea Bargnani for $50 million is a damn better deal than Chris Bosh for almost twice that. And I like Chris Bosh.
He was the best player on the team in stretches and there were more than a few times where he made moves offensively and even DEFENSIVELY that made me jump out of my chair. I would come to this very site where, poster after poster would comment on his transformation and marvel at the thought that scant months ago we were willing to give him away for...nothing?
If he came this far in 1 year how far will he come in another? Or another? Forget what Andrea can't do well for a minute, what centre CAN shoot/handle/create like second half of the season Andrea?
And if you watched any games with the other teams audio as I had to a few times last year, the other teams announcers MARVELLED at this guy. Forget the stats, when opposing coaches, GM's what have you, see a seven footer faking at the three point line sending a defender flying five feet by him then he dribbles up to the free throw line to drain a contested jumper, they wet themselves. He blocks shots defends decent to excellent for stretches and stretches the floor. When it comes to decent NBA centres 10 million gets the conversation started. Andrew Bynum gets 15 million and he is so far proven to be an and injury prone pylon.
Extending Bargnani was a no-brainer. Doing whatever he did to somehow get us the MLE back and two servicable swings is unbelievable. Noone in any of their most fanciful hypotheticals that I read anywhere and I read a few, had a trade worked out that would get us as much as we got.
What the f@#k more could you want?!?
by Hope on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I agree losing jawai sucks. I was ok with losing hump, who with a healed leg was probably going to be like two-years-ago-hump and he was pretty useful then.
But Douby was made redundant by derozan already, besides having banks, then add george and wright and we have too many smalls.
Now we needs bigs more than a pg. and I'm worried about depth again.
BC's not done yet though.
by axl on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Is the Raps looking at signing Toronto native Jamal Magloire and i would love to see Leon Powe in a Raps Uniform.
by ChathamRapsFan on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I hate to say I told you so .... but it took an Accountant to come up with this deal.
:-)
by RapthoseLeafs on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
It's not my style to start dissing people, but, I can't believe anyone is lamenting losing Jawai. Mediocre Aussie leaguer with Fred Sandford's ticker. I predict the guy is back playing for Wollongong a year from now. Here's how the deal went down.
BC - You can't have Douby, how about Jawai? (Muffled laughter)
Mark Cuban - Nathan Jawai? The Aussie Shaq? The Alice Springs Assassin? The Toowoomba Tornado! Sure! Yeah!
BC - (full out laughing)
MC - What's so funny?
BC - Sorry Mark. Maurizio just did his Bruno impression for me. It's priceless. Okay then Jawai it is, toodles.
by Silverback on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Silverback, a much needed does of humour. Well Done!
by Brian Gerstein on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I’ve been watching the ongoings for the past few days with much interest but was unable to post. For the most part, everything I wanted to say has been said very eloquently by much of the commentary on this site. However, a few things to add.
It’s a great time to be a raptor fan. These are truly exciting times and I can’t remember the last time I looked forward to the beginning of the season with more anticipation. And I have to give props to TJ, great call! Here are some addition random thoughts:
First let me just say that I’m a huge fan of this site. In fact, I come here first and usually last. I don’t have much time and know that whatever is out there that impacts the Raptors, you and the my fellow posters will break and break down on this site. Great work and congratulations to what you, Howland, and Vicious D have been able to accomplish.
Franchise:
Not sure what happened but it began with the Kapono signing. While the rest of us began to contemplating how the raptors will drop more trays than a drunken waitress, you were more worried about who would pay for the drinks. This was followed by a post about how we must rid ourselves of the albatross which is Bosh’s contract now lest the financing get out of control (which spurred on a tsunami of posts form people with an inferiority complex about which bench player we should target in a trade for Bosh, I thought I was somehow redirected to realGM). This has subsequently been followed up with many discussions about whether Bosh truly is a max player. Most recently, BC pulls a rabbit out of a hat and your post isn’t about fit but rather about the Benjamins and how we can no longer build a solid bench. Then came the Barney deal which again, instead of focusing on the fact that we locked up our up and coming big for the next 6 years, you went on a rant about how we spent too much.
Here is what I have to say about that. Why do we care? As a fan, I am focused on the group of players that our GM assembles. Can’t we leave the money to BC and the Board to worry about? That’s what he is paid to do. I’m just excited being a fan. This is especially true in the case with BC who has proven over and over again not to be shackled by any contract. Let us be fans and enjoy the possibilities without worrying about our next mortgage payment.
BC just pulled off a deal which was unfathomable a few days ago. We should all be in awe of this man and congratulating him on a job well done. Let’s remember this next week when some of us are calling for his head again because he took Bargnani and not Thomas #1 overall.
P.S. If you really want Jawai, I’m pretty sure we can sign him back 30 days after Memphis waves him.
Doug Smith:
I have to stick up for the guy. He’s been getting some unfair bashing on this site. Yes, he is condescending, but that’s just his style, I don’t think he means any disrespect. For the record, what he said was that the Raptors do not have their MLE without a trade with Orlando, no matter what. He was right. He does have his sources and they are good. I think that if you want to pick a fight with the media, DS is not your guy. He’s on our side.
He is the only reporter who regularly reports on the sport taking time away at nights to blog live during non raptor games and weekends to respond to questions. He is the guy on the fan 590 duking it out with the hockey heads who don’t understand a thing about bball. Grange? Love reading the guy, but I clean my eaves troughs more often than the guy posts to his blog. The Fan 590 (the so called home of the Raptors)? They cancel the only dedicated bball radio show whenever there is a baseball game or a dart competition at the Madison. 680 news (sister station to the fan)? They referred to the staples center as the home of the Kings in reference to the Michael Jackson ceremony. Staples Center, the home of the KINGS!!!
There is no one in the media, no one! who is fighting our battle other than DS. So I cut him some slack.
by Zona on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Silverback - It won't be so funny when bargnani's in the hospital getting his other appendix out, cb4 is lying on the ground clutching his knee, and jawai is over in Dallas showing Erica how to to play the game like a man...
by axl on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Zona, I totally agree with your comments on Doug Smith.
His media coverage of the Raptors, and the NBA, in both print and net blog has been unparalelled since their inception. His coverage of this latest BC masterpiece, and his response to fans has been the best source of information available.
by Johnn19 on Jul 9, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Sweet merciful crap Silverback, I damn near pissed myself laughing.
"Mediocre Aussie leaguer with Fred Sandford's ticker." Kind of a low blow but funny none the less.
by Posterized on Jul 10, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Re: Doug Smith
I'll tell you what... I read his articles every day because they're informative and he gets to some issues that we just don't have access to. That being said, he's pretty condescending to fans, dismissive of the entire blogosphere (despite HAVING a blog), and we can sometimes have differing opinions on a variety of issues. None of this is particularly wrong per se, but sometimes people have different ways going about things. Any shots I've taken at him lately are largely due to the fact that he makes people feel stupid for thinking outside the box, which I think is a big no-no especially for a guy in his position. Is every trade scenario and thought worth looking at? No. But sometimes he puts stuff out there just to make fun of the person, so I think it's ok to fire back at him every once in a while. ;)
by Vicious D on Jul 10, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Zona - awesome & awesome.
Armchair GM'ing has become a very regrettable but (possibly?) necessary evil and Doug Smith has restored my faith in the T.O. sports 'mainstream' media.
by dsl on Jul 10, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

by 










