The HQ Round Table – More on Turkoglu

While I have always hated lengthy contracts, Turkoglu should have value in the final year of his contract even if his performance slips. Every year there are several teams looking to rebuild or save money that are willing to give up rotation players for large expiring contracts.

Great read as always. E Smith's little list of possible aquistions is great too for heating up the wait and see game going on here. Most if not all have of course been mentioned by the HQ writers and readers.

On a side note, the Raps have just made Bosh happy with this signing. Thinking about it for a few days I think that means a lot. I am now officially pumped.

I think more than anything we need to get a couple weeks into the season before we can really judge how this has played out.

I for one am both excited (as a Hedo fan for many years... even while he was coming off the bench for the Spurs and Sac-Town I thought he was underrated as a player) and concerned as to where this leaves the bench or even the starters.

However, the defensive issues the Raps have (or will have) does not relate to Hedo. A good defensive team starts and ends with bigs. Every good defensive team has a presence in the paint... as long as we have both Bosh and AB (or unless something changes with them) the Raps will always be "poor defensively"

I read on this site quite often and this is one signing that I like and I'd have to disagree with you guys.

Ever since Vince left we needed someone to give the ball to at crunch time and let them be creative, break the defense down, and make a play. Turkoglu brings this. He can drive, he can shoot and he can pass. I'm not sure how you can compare him to Jason Kapono. Other things he brings to the table - championship experience. You can't put a dollar value on this. If he can bring this experience and leadership to the Raps its well worth $10 million a year. Look at what Chauncey did for the Nuggets.

Yes BC makes gambles. But before he even came we never had big name players come to Toronto. A lot of these NBA players don't want to come to Canada (b/c of laws, culture, etc) and are comfortable playing in the US. But the last two seasons BC has gotten JO and now Turkoglu (with no problems even playing here). Two big names in the league. I think that speaks volumes about his reputation and shows he always wants to get better as a GM even if he makes mistakes. Unlike JO, this time Turkoglu is healthy, proven and the best guy on the FA.

I'm hoping we still have the mid and bi-level exceptions. If so we'll have a good team heading into next season and hopefully you guys will have a change of heart.

Steve

any analysis predicated upon bosh not being a max player simply fails (I probably should write a long blog post on this).

unless you think we will get one of lebron/wade/cp3 or maybe dwight howard or kevin durant, bosh is as good as anyone else in the league looking at skills, experience, age, etc.

raptor boards are filled with "bosh is not a #1 option like joe johnson (!!!!)". yikes.

I will admit that I am unsure of what to think of the Turk signing as although it does address some of the wing issues for this team, it leaves us with a very thin lineup and puts us in difficult position to get any more players who will actually be helpful. I think it goes without saying that BC should be on the phone 24/7 with Orlando trying to convince them to do a sign and trade rather than just signing Turk outright. I know Orlando could be a little bitter about it but realistically they need help as well as right now Pietrus is their starting 2 (or 3 depending on where they slide Carter) and their next best player is Riddick. Uhm, not exactly a great drop off in talent. If Gortat signs somewhere else the are going to have massive issues and won't have any cap space at all to sign anyone other than to Mid levels and vetran mins as they are already hovering around luxary tax territory. Getting any bodies back for Turk just makes massive sense. Not sure why they are not interested especially since the Raptors once did them a favour in a similar situation some 10 years ago (anyone remember the Tmac situation).
If BC cannot find some productive players on the cheap, this team is in serious trouble. Even if everything goes according to plan and Turk meshes well with the rest of the starters, Bosh, Calderon and Turk will all have to log heavy minutes and we will be depending on a rookie whose best days are 2 years from now (unless he "gets it" early). There are some guys who could be nice gamble choices (Gerald Green for example) but they are just that, gambles.

The only real positive I can take from this is that Toronto was able to land an in demand FA as opposed to ending up as the bridesmaid as usual. BC needs to make the next step and hit a real home run with his next move otherwise our team next year will be Calderon, Hedo, Bargnani and DD.

I may not be a fan of the signing myself, but I am a fan of doing something vs nothing. This was not a playoff team heading into this year with last years lineup and BC knows that. All we know now is that, this maybe a playoff team this season, and that's enough to get me excited. BC is GMing for 5 years down the road. If there's another stinker this year, he ain't GMing 12 months from now.

I may not agree with all of BCs moves but I admire his guts and his ability to admit mistakes and move those pieces out (JO, Kapono, Fred Jones, Juan Dixon, Moon). Other GMs might ride their pick till the cows come home (ie see Hoffa).

Another reason to be excited? When was the last time we had some true powerhouses in the East? If you love basketball, you have to love this right? Yeah, it means life as a Raps fan is going to be much more difficult in the next few years, but I'm going to love to hate Orlando & the Celts! All the Magic need left is to reacquire T-Mac and we're set. I might even renew my season tix!

+1 on Gerald Green, although it's a big gamble, I'm not sure we have much other choice but to keep gambling at this point.

You didn't want Dahntay Jones last summer, and don't pretend like you did.

I think debating whether Bosh is a max player or not is fair. Yes he may get his max contract regardless of wether he is "worth it" or not, and yes T.O. may not have the option of signing "true max" players (such as the list you gave). But don't forget that money will be on the Raps payroll and it is money that could be given other players (FA, AB will have a contract coming up, DD in a few years, other potential draft picks or players obtained through trades etc.) If that Bosh money is locked up and we miss out on 1, 2 or 3 other players that combined are better options than Bosh, than doesn't the Bosh contract truelly hurt us? Bosh may be the best player we can get for that money... but that doesn't automatically make it money well spent.

I'm not saying Bosh is or isn't worth that money... just saying debating the issue is by no means "fail"

Once Turkoglu signed with Portland, Marion would have had the Raptors over the barrel. He could have demanded a sign and trade to a contender and Colangelo would have lost all his leverage at that point. The Raptors could have ended up spending millions on players that didn't really fit at all (Varajeo). Any analysis that doesn't take that dimension of negotiations into consideration is incomplete at best.

Hey Bob - Check our archives:

http://www.hooplife.ca/raptorshq/viewHQArticle.php?id=446

Not just as a Duke fan, but as a Jones fan he's been a player I wanted the Raps to take a chance on for a while, and from that post, this is what I wrote about him:

One player who didn’t show up until today, and who I was hoping would impress, was former Duke and Rutgers guard Dahntay Jones. Jones is an athletic marvel and cut like a knife but seems to still be struggling to find a role in the league. This is something he conveyed to us in an interview after the camp concluded and he’s another player I hope Toronto gets a second look at in summer league.

Jones was one of the four players we interviewd at that camp as well along with Rod Benson, DiJon Thompson and James White.

We did like Adams too, unfortunately he showed up to training camp a few months later a BIT out of shape.

Steve - I think that's one of the big plusses for me about this Turkoglu deal in spite of my disdain for it; the fact that BC has been able to get players up here who five years ago would have laughed and hung up the phone.

And McGateway think you summed it up pretty well in this sentence regarding BC's options to fill out the roster:

There are some guys who could be nice gamble choices (Gerald Green for example) but they are just that, gambles.

I've been a bit torn on this one as I tended to prefer Marion to Turkoglu, mostly because of the defensive abilities Marion has in spades.

That said, Marion got first crack and passed, and BC didn't blink, so we have to give him credit where credit is due. Once Marion made it clear he wasn't going to take the deal we could offer, getting the Turk was by far the best option.

Keep in mind that from the reports I read Ariza was actually the primary target, and that he took less money to play in Houston than he would have recieved in TO. Can't fault BC on that - he made the right offer for the right player and got turned down.

I do like the Turk for a number of reasons, but not the least of which is his ability to play point forward.

Like most commenters, the big issue I have isn't the guy, its how it affects our ability to fill out the bench - and I agree with everyone who says we just have to wait and see how that plays out - before we freak out.

Hedo Turkoglu was an all star snub 2 straight seasons, was a big factor in eliminating the raptors two years ago from the playoffs and was the second best player on a team that went to the finals last year. lets get excited about the signing. Hedo flirts with a triple double on a rather consistent basis, and can affect the game in ways we have never had from the point forward position. i love the signing! great job Colangelo.

I'm no capologist ... does this mean Delfino is not coming back?

I think signing Hedo is a great move. More importantly, I think it was the best move possible given who is out there realistically.

I'm curious to hear what other people think would have been better options. Signing Gordon, Ariza, Charlie V ...? There isn't a GM in the league who wouldn't take Hedo over any of them. Why do you think Portland is so pissed? They know his value. This isn't like John Salmons dissing the Raptors, this is a player who is arguably an all star who just went to the NBA finals.

Bench issues? Clearly BC has to do better than Hassan Adams types. But, now people seem to be crapping themselves over not having enough money to bring back Parker, Delfino ...

Do we really want them back? Maybe Delfino, but that last thing I wanted to see, and I recall many others commenting on, was BC basically re-signing all of last year's bunch that served us up a 33 win turd sandwich because they are good guys. Parker is replaceable. Nice guy, but replaceable. And likely for a lot less.

At least BC did something. He had to. This was a 33 win team! You have to do something. Signing some D League phenoms wasn’t going to cut it. Again, what do others see as realistic other options we had to improve the team quickly? The 8 person mega trade involving Bosh and us getting back all kinds of young talent simply isn’t going to happen. At least not yet.

Is Hedo's contract to long or large? Perhaps. I do think 10 million per year is about right. 5 years - yes, year 4 and 5 may not be the highest producing years. But, that can be said about most players around 30 who sign a longer contract.

I liked Marion, but again, most GM's would take Hedo over him any day of the week at this point. Hence the reason why Portland went after him hard.

And Orlando? Good luck with Wince Carter. He'll look great early on. Always does. But, wait till things get tough. My prediction, no team with Vince Carter will ever win an NBA championship. He's a culture and chemistry killer.

Let's look at this slightly differently. Consider the degree of improvement for each of the team's that look to be competitive for top spots in the conference.

Shaq to Cleveland is a potential chemistry problem

Vince to Orlando is a positive but Orlando took a depth hit that could negatively impact them;

Sheed to Boston, Rondo being mentioned in trade rumours, a good guy in Powe being renounced on an already thin bench, and Big Baby potentially not coming back for a team already in the tax ...there's a lot that could go wrong there and they're getting OLDER;

Atlanta made some improvement on the wing but it depends on what they do with Bibby

Philadelphia still has to integrate Brand and get their point guard situation straightened out but with a new coach could really make gains

Chicago lost Ben Gordon

Detroit -- a total wild card depending on coaching and chemistry

Milwaukee lost Richard Jefferson for basically nothing

Indiana -- has done nothing so far

New Jersey lost Carter

and yada yada yada.

Basically the degree of positive change on the Raptors is significant enough to make them relevant in the playoff picture considering what has happened to other teams in the conference.

If you look at it that way, it's promising. Maybe we should do a bench comparison to round things out but, really, how deep are the top teams in the conference?

Surprised that no one has commented that Hedo provides a pretty good replacement for Bosh, should CB4 be moved mid season. They both primarily play a pick and roll game, but Turk will be half the price of Bosh. (Lee was in the same mold as well and was supposedly targeted by the Raps.) Hedo provides pretty good positional flexibility since he could play the 2, 3 or 4 spots. If Bosh is moved, BC could ask for any player in return and then plug AB (C or PF) and Turk (SG, SF, PF) into the other spots

I'm a bit concerned about the bench as everyone is. But I was thinking, IF the hedo contract is structured to allow the Raptors to pick up Klieza, and IF the Raptors can trade Humphries for a pick to make room for Delfino, and they pick up Rasho with the Vet Min. then the team and bench look just fine. This would allow them to start Delfino and let DeRozan develop more gradually and give them a bench of Demar, Klieza, Rasho and Evans.

I think it's a great deal. A good point was made that in year 5 this contract becomes an asset.

Chances of resigning CB4 are 50/50 at best now. Only way to swing that in our favour is to show great improvement next season, which BC appears to be attempting to do. If he is not successfull, well we have Tukoglu, Bargnani, Calderon and a sophomore Derozan with some money to spend for the 2010 season.

Do not rule out the pssibility of moving Bosh this offseason as well. Do the math - if you think it will be tricky to increase our depth this season, it won't be easier once Bosh gets his max deal.
Talk to the Knicks or the Heat.

Franchise,I would scoop D.Jones in a heart beat,if BC can find a way......

I don't really understand why there's less of a chance to sign Bosh now? Wouldn't it be the other way?

1)So if they do nothing=Bosh leaves
2)If they do something=Bosh leaves

okay then-- I think people have already preloaded their arguement. Just like when Vince refused to resign. Oh wait.

My issue is not Turkoglu as a player but the contract itself.
WHAT killed us last years was not having a good bench and signing him meaning getting ride of Parker or even Delfino. putting a low cost players in bench is costly(anyone remembers Will Solomon and others). heck if we manage to get a good bench then i will be happy with this signing other wise no. lets see what BC does to get a good bench and depth

is there a way to get a hump for bellinelli + spares (Bellinelli makes 1.5 Mill ) from GS?
R

Interloper & Silverback hit the hammer right on the nail. 1) We HAD to do something and this was our best option b) Other teams made moves that may/may not work out as well.

I've read up on tsn, there are a few different ways BC could still get the MLE & BAE to sign some free agents. Dantay Jones sounds like a good option, Matt Barnes is another one who are good players and are affordable.

While I think BC has made some bad moves (e.g. signing Kapono, giving up a 1st rounder to get Marion), I think he learns from his mistakes quickly and is working to correct them. We all need to chill and trust that the man making 3 MILLION+ per year (BC), can do basic math and knows that the bench could be screwed if he can't work some magic. Hedo is NOT signed formally yet, so there are still another 2 days until he is. Let's all chill until thurs/fri and find out what the cap is and see what BC actually does instead of speculating/going crazy.

I love the signing of Hedo, he's everything VC wasn't for us (good luck Orlando with that move), and we are in better position if Bosh does leave (he does NOT deserve a max contract imho).

This is a great move to get Hedo (he's a million times better than Kapono, what are you guys smokin'?), let the expert deal with cap issues, that's what he's paid for, not us.

Interloper & Silverback hit the hammer right on the nail. 1) We HAD to do something and this was our best option b) Other teams made moves that may/may not work out as well.

I've read up on tsn, there are a few different ways BC could still get the MLE & BAE to sign some free agents. Dantay Jones sounds like a good option, Matt Barnes is another one who are good players and are affordable.

While I think BC has made some bad moves (e.g. signing Kapono, giving up a 1st rounder to get Marion), I think he learns from his mistakes quickly and is working to correct them. We all need to chill and trust that the man making 3 MILLION+ per year (BC), can do basic math and knows that the bench could be screwed if he can't work some magic. Hedo is NOT signed formally yet, so there are still another 2 days until he is. Let's all chill until thurs/fri and find out what the cap is and see what BC actually does instead of speculating/going crazy.

I love the signing of Hedo, he's everything VC wasn't for us (good luck Orlando with that move), and we are in better position if Bosh does leave (he does NOT deserve a max contract imho).

This is a great move to get Hedo (he's a million times better than Kapono, what are you guys smokin'?), let the expert deal with cap issues, that's what he's paid for, not us.

Why is everyone acting like the NBA has a hard cap? You go over the threshold and simply pay a dollar for dollar tax.

We shouldn't be complaining about the Turk signing from a financial standpoint; if anything we should congratulate MLSE on opening up the coffers and not being avaricious. But now, we should be clamouring for them to go into the luxo tax to get the players needed to fill out the bench.

We can re-sign one of AP/Delfino and work out a sign and trade for Kleiza with Denver. We're not talking about adding more than 4-5 million or so, which is really 8-10 once the luxury tax factors in. Not to mention that guys like Humphries can be traded down the road to remove some of the financial hit.

To me, spending all this money to build a winner, and then being cheap about adding a couple of pieces to the bench is like buying a Porsche and then putting 87 octane in it to save some cash.

If BC thinks this team is a contender in the East, then let's see him put his money where his mouth (credentials) is.

Rob

My biggest issue with Turoglu is not how he fit with Bosh and Bargnani but how he'll be effective with Calderon. The playing style of both players is to dominate the ball. Turkoglu was more effective in the playoffs than the season because of the injury to Jameer Nelson. He suddenly had the ball in his hands more often. What happens with the Raptors? Calderon is not a give it up type of point guard and I think Turkoglu's game will suffer because he can't play point forward while Calderon dribbles away the 24 sec clock. Whether Turk is worth the money is another question but if we have him, I'd like to see him making things happen rather than stand around waiting for Calderon to notice him.

What's the word on Joel Anthony? Are the Heat expected to resign him?

Love it, so much good discussion about all fo this hedo stuff.

-Can he and jose co-exist?
-Can bc fill out the bench with some non patrick obryants?
-Does this move actually keep boshy around or at least make him strongly consider things a lot more than before?
-Can nathan jawai eat a 2-4-1 pizza party pack by himself?

Great stuff!

I didnt like the hedo signing at first but im starting to warm up to it a bit. I think interloper and silverback and others nailed it when they said bc had to do something and so hes rolling the dice since there are so many question marks in the east.

The advantage of players on minimum contracts. Regardless of whether that player has signed no contracts or 10 contracts in the NBA, they become your team's restricted free agent the following offseason ala Pops Mensah Bonsu. If we guess right with the guys we sign, we then have the leg up on resigning them. The silver lining is that we can guess and guess often. If the SF signed to a minimum contact isn't working out, cut him, take the cap hit, and sign another player. We have so much space under the luxury tax, more then enough to take that strategy along with trades for larger contacts (125%+100,000).We have now become the place to be for all NBA roster hopefuls. Bring us your raw, your under utilized, and your under exposed. We will show you the gateway to an Escalade tricked out beyond your wildest dreams!(why do I have a picture in my head of BC as Willy Wonka when he's saying this). The potential for a rotation spot(s) will be too much to ignore. Doubly so in this economy, when more then a few teams will cap their roster at 13 to save money. Split the minimum contracts evenly between veterans to keep us in the winning way, and youngsters who have D-league eligibility remaining. Should things really go bad, then shift minutes to the young guns and you can make a confident decision to keep or release them at season's end. Likewise if things are going well, then the vets can be resigned should they mesh well with the existing core. All nonguaranteed deals become guaranteed on jan 10th, so that's the make good date for the first set of minimum players, coming out of free agency and training camp.
A hypothetical, had BC known Turkuglu was coming, does he draft T.Will instead of DeRo? The knock against TWill was he could be nothing more then fourth option on offense HOWEVER, given his skills on the other side of the ball, he could fulfil that role on a championship calibre squad?
As a second hindsight point, there was a third option to retain the midlevel, besides Marion or Turk. If we had to make up roughly 10 million, give 5 to Parker, 4 to Delfino, and 1 to Pops. Use a chunk of the MLE on Klieza and offseason done. BC wouldn't take that since you neither add difference making talent or preserve future cap space. It really depends on what kind of talent the MLE can attract in a depressed marketplace.

When it came right down to it, BC thought Turk, Min player A, Min player B, 10 mill under luxury tax > Marion, Delfino, Kleiza, no space under luxury tax. We will suffer a shallow bench in 2009-2010. The benefit of that 10 mill under the tax is that IF Bosh walks away for nothing, we have a clean 15 mill coming off the SOFT cap in 2010. In this scenario, trading for larger contracts(125% +100,000 rule) that extend beyond 2010 now, will proportionally cut into the cap space we'd potentially have in the 2010 summer. The different ways things can play out over the next year is mind boggling!!!

I read somewhere that Pops wrote on his twitter that the raptors wanted him 2 work on being a SF , so i guess the idea is have pops back up the SF , so that leaves us with needing a Starting SG or Start Derezon and hopefully find a way to get Delfino for the bench. I think we have enough fire power in the starting 5 , so maybe it is better to have Derozon start & just concetrate on Defense and Delfino or whoever we get to come of the bench to have a lil scoring on the 2nd unit.

PG - Calderon / Ukic / Banks
Sg - DD / Delfino / Douby
Sf - Turk / Pops
Pf - Bosh / Evans / Jawai
C - Bargs / Hump / O'bryant

If thats the case we wil have a pretty big SF position both being 6'10.

Will see i guess

I don't see how Turk and Calderon will have problems co-existing. The thing that makes Jose good is the he IS a give the ball up type of pg. Jose is known for his passing and not his scoring. Yes he has the ball in his hands more than some would like (I am not included in that category because the ball is safe in his hands... turnovers loose you ball games)... but he has never complained about not having the ball. He has never complained about not getting his shots. Yes Turk will command the ball more than other players we've had... but this will just give Jose opportunities to shoot. Don't forget how gracious Jose was with TJ when Jose earned a starting spot and then stepped aside. When we ran Jose and TJ on the floor at the same time Jose never complained about TJ bringing the ball up.

Jose is not that type of player... the ball in someone elses hands will not be an issue.

Silverback - I am not upset that the Raptors are not bringing back Delfino, Parker and Rasho. In fact, I see that as a silver lining in all this as there will no longer be talk about bringing back diminished returns. However, right now, they look like our saviours compared to the names we will have to dig through to fill out our roster. That is what has a lot of us upset, that the team will have guys on their roster that very few people have heard of or players desperate to turn their careers around. Hardly the basis of a solid team.

I don't like the Hedo signing because we are more than ever a bunch of soft, big guys standing on the outside waiting for the ball. That said, I do like that Marion's ego was not able to seize the team ala Vince Carter years ago. The reality is that FA's are not clamoring to get here next year when the dollars are out there for all the stars. We have Bosh to trade away, and Hedo does many of the same things. A good point was made that we can replace him with a 3 or 4, though Hedo playing the 4 makes Bargnani look like Dwight Howard.

Offensively, this is good. Hedo can pick and roll with Jose, but also as the ball handler with Bosh. He is hugely over-rated as a shooter, but he is capable of hitting in streaks and that will open the lanes a bit, too.
Defensively, we have to pack the paint with the trees and prey they don't hit wide open shots. It will take 3 bigs to do what Howard does alone. We are going to see a lot or games in the 110's and 120's this year.

You guys at the HQ just don't get it and no matter who BC would have signed we would get the same bull from all of you. This is a great signing to beable to get Hedo, the team is instantly better. The Raptors are not going be a defensive joggernaut overnite and no one player can come in here and make us the best defensive team in the league. JT is a good coach and with Ivaroni the defence will be a lot better, heck half the teams in the NBA plays poor defence. I respect your opinion Franchise but I think you missed it on this one. The Raps will be in the top 5 in the east with a starting line up of Bosh, Bargs, Hedo, Jose and who ever they put at 3 even if its DD. I know you were leaning towards Marion but espn have it that he turned down the offer that BC made to him, so more than likely BC will try to sign and trade Shawn to give him a little more cap space and get some good back up bench players. Hedo was the most coveted free agent and he is coming to the Raptors so that will also help the organization when trying to get players. So lets support the deal and do not dampen the hopes of Raps fans that look to you guys for quality insights on the Raptors....I am really dissappointed with this post.

Agreed....you guys seem too concerned with the $ and the long term.

All of the good clubs have a good contracts kicking around that maybe aren't 'good value' - but they were solid pieces in making those teams good.

Managing based on dollars and cents makes sense if you're rebuilding, or struggling to get fans. Not if you're trying to keep your franchise player, who, like it or not, is a max player.

Not to mention - good shooters and good passers don't have huge productivity fall-offs by the time they hit 35. There is a boat load of players around 35 that are solid contributors on good teams.

And, of course - if CB does leave, a team that still has 3 solid players looks a lot better (to fans and free agents) to than a team that only has 2...

Regarding our concerns about money, I'm not concerned about how much we spend at all. What I'm worried about is being able to fill out the squad with quality talent in spots 5-9. I'm not saying that Colangelo has lost his mind, but rather that there's a lot of caution that must be exerted regarding this deal, especially with regards to how much space it leaves us to get some key pieces. Are these pieces going to change the fortune of the team completely around? Not likely, but can guys like Kleiza, Parker, Delfino, et all allow the team to rest our starters when need be and more importantly, insure us against injuries.

As for Hedo himself, I believe he can become a great addition to this team who will give us lots of added dimensions. However, I also believe that he has many of the same deficiencies that Jason Kapono had, albeit in smaller doses. He's definitely a much better player than Kapono and has an ability to heat it up in critical situations... Something the Raptors have been missing even with Marion last year....

One last thing that I have a large concern with right now is just how much guys like Evans and DeRozan are expected to have an impact. These are pieces that we should expect to give us some sort of boost, but can we expect these people to be in the lineup during crunch time? Neither hits free throws particularly well at the moment, and if they cannot count on that toughness and athleticism in critical situations, they are merely game pace changers rather pieces that will change the identity of this team... Something that hopefully will not only come from the players but from the new coaching staff as well.

Watched some summer league ball today. Terrence Williams looked awful, James Harden looked solid but his defence was lacking and Eric Maynor is as pure as PGs get but he's very small tho.

Looking forward to seeing the Raps this weekend. Hey guys its getting late and no moves from BC yet? No Parker to Cavs for Gibson or at least Danny Green? Nothing?

Member29, where are you watching summer league?! Need a fix bad!

I think Marion took himself out of the running by waffling on whether he was going to re-sign or not. Good player, but he seems to think he can command top dollars. Not in today's market, bud.

Franchise, I'm skeptical of this deal as well, but I'll try and look at the positives.

1) Yes he's 30 and it's a 5 year deal, but he's a player who relies more on basketball IQ and skills rather than athleticism, so I think he'll remain effective for some time yet.

2) You're absolutely right about Bosh, but I don't think this deal was made with an eye to keeping Bosh. If he wants to stay, great, but I'm guessing Colangelo knows that Bosh is not a max player and will act accordingly.

3) While I'm a DeRozan fan, I share your concerns about having him start. And the Raps absolutely have to address the rebounding and toughness issues. On the plus side, in this economy Colgangelo may be able to fill out the bench with some pretty good players for cheap. Maybe even Dahntay Jones or Linas Kleiza...

Early sign and trade rumblings involving Marion to Dallas. Thank you cray Mark Cuban!

Crazy too!

mavs and raps working a sign and trade for mario, i hope we can get jason terry or josh howard back

LMAO...good one mobchester....I haven't laughed like that in DAYS! ;)

I'm still waiting for some interesting news on min player signings (no really.... I am.... why are you laughing at that?....ohhhhhhh...lol.... yea I guess that does sound a little ridiculously raptors obsessed).

Still hoping for some BC magic....well.... some OTHER magic... since we already got Hedo.... and he was..... yea.... on the Magic.

Hmmmm... maybe I shouldnt blog after a few drinks. =S

yahoo sports

"Dallas is dangling the partially guaranteed contract of Mavs forward Jerry Stackhouse(notes) to acquire Marion. Stackhouse, 34, has only $2 million of his $7 million salary guaranteed for this season, and whomever trades for Stackhouse can buy out the deal by Aug. 10. The Raptors aren’t likely interested in taking back salary in a deal for Marion, a former All-Star forward, so Stackhouse is an intriguing possibility."

The Lego Master is hard at work. I know its hard, but lets chill for two more days and see.

Go Raps Go!

If the Raptors are going to ink Hedo, they need to be considerably under the cap. That means, they could not add a player with a large contract for Marion, ie. Josh Howard.

This is not a rumour that I have heard, but I would be thrilled with Marion (S&T) + Banks for Stackhouse and Antoine Wright. Only 2 million of Stackhouse's contract is guaranteed. So they could waive Stack, keep Wright and actually save a few hundred thousand dollars.

One things I don't understand is how Bosh is not being considered a max player. He's still on of the top 15 players in the leaugue, was truly dominant for the first couple months of the year until the Olympics caught up with everyone (a big man also needs a healthy PG). Of course, big also mature later so his best days should be yet to come. I don't see how there can be a doubt.

I read that Stack could be bought out immediately (any time before August 1st). To have this deal be helpful though, I am assuming that BC would have to add in another roster player that makes more than 2 million, or he would lose some of the cap space needed to sign Hedo.

Here’s the difference between Marion and Turk.

Turk is going ... "I’m making more money. And my wife is happy."

Marion is going:
"I’m worth 10 per ...... well, 9 for sure ... ahh ... f*@k’em... This team was the shits anyways.

WHat's going on with stackhouse? Can we offload Hump in that deal and then buy out stack? Summer league action all this week on NBA.COM; it's live and half decent quality. Yesterday's action was interesting but no one really stood out.

Whoever compared Turk and Kapono should have their head examined. Other than range there is nothing similar about their games other than skin colour.