Sunday Mash-Up

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/truehoop/0-41-166/The-Michael-Jordan-of-Turkey--in-Free-Agency.html

great article on Turkoglu

I love the signing. We have a formidable offensive starting unit. It needs a strong defensive system to succeed however this is on the coaching staff.
This signing kills the idea of run and gun team. We will definitely be a PnR team with so many shooters and guys who can take it to the rim. Maybe the second unit will play more of an up-tempo style with Ukic, Demar and ?
The bench is a serious concern however BC knows it as well and will do something about it.
I was watching the play-offs thinking what can we do to acquire Hedo and it seemed like a dream. I don't know if it will work however this is the kind of move I expect from a GM. I addition if we are doing well before the trade deadline the MLSE may agree to go over the tax. Interesting times indeed.

Rose coloured glasses alert.

In Turkoglu and Derozan I believe we have upgraded the skill level. In Evans we've made strides towards our rebounding and toughness. Yes, at the moment we lack depth, but today, it is arguably deeper than opening night last season. If we do have 8-10 million to play around with we should be fine.

We have Turkoglu, Calderon, Bargnani and Derozan signed for a couple of seasons. And we still possess our greatest bargaining chip in CB4.

Brilliant last minute coup by Colangelo to land the Turk. Marion, his 1st choice with Delfino, AP, Klieza, etc was his game plan. He finally decided Marion did not want to sign,in TO, and reacted,even though it complicated his life to no end.

Arsenalist @ Raptors Republic site has a very good detailed analysis of the CAP mess facing Colangelo.

Interesting post on the energy guys, nice work. I know canada ball isnt a huge interest to some but i think its important to have doses of this now and again to make sure you know where things are going in this country in that respect.

In term of hedo, excited for wed day so we can find out just how much money toronto really has to spend.

Here's a list of possibles for Colangelo to target for min salary deals, with 08/09 salary and position.

Walter Hermann $2m
Ime Ukoda $1.0m
Matt Barnes $800k
Von Wafer $800k
Dauntay Jones $800k
Quinton Ross $800k
Shannon Brown $800k
Jamario Moon $700k
Joey Graham $2.4m
Ronnie Price $1.2m
Rodney Carney $1.6m

Mostly 2/3's & 1pg (Price) All F/A's, some very good defenders, and a couple of good scorers. There are probably a lot more choices also.

Colangelo was quoted before the FA craziness began as saying he had approximately $21mil to spend under the expected tax level, on FA's.

Subtract Turkoglu, whatever his number is, and there you are. The only problem is the question of the salary exceptions, with out which he has only the min salary of approx $500k to 1.3mil, dependent on years of service to work with.

Wow! Go on vacation for a week and return to a Hedo signing. General thoughts - good signing. I watched a lot of playoff basketball and Hedo is a gamer. And a tough competitor. Not in a thug sense, but doing what needs to be done to win.

Raptors get a true scoring option and a player who actually has gone to the finals. A winner with experience. Nice insurance as well in case Bosh walks or more likely gets traded.

I'm not sure how it would work, but couldn't Colangelo and Turk's agent work on structuring the deal to give the Raps more flexibility this year; maybe they could have a back-end loaded contract.

I'm no cap master myself, so I'm not sure if this would even make much of a difference, but if it did, it should be brought to Hedo's attention; if he actually wants to win something during his stay in Toronto.

Rob

It’s nice to read a more positive tone to the reviews regarding the acquisition of Turkoglu. I was beginning to wonder if any of the so called "informed" basketball fans watched any of playoffs. Having a player of Turkoglu’s caliber to call on to make the clutch plays went begging for years on Raptors teams. Great job Colangelo…now finish the job and acquire the necessary pieces to support the talented starting 5 you so successfully assembled.

Open question.

One of the most entertaining seasons I can remember as a Raptor fan was the first season when we acquired European players such as Parker and Garbajosa. The ball movement is what easily comes to mind…it was indeed poetry in motion. Do you think that this assembly of players can get back the kind of offense? If not, what kind of offensive plays do you think this team will be bested suited for?

According to Doug Smith and Tim Chisolm BC will only be able to offer minimum contracts to fill out the roster. This is because they will be under the cap when the numbers are set on july 7th. That means no mid-level or bi-annual exceptions. The tax number is irrelevant, so please stop worrying about it.

His other option is making a trade, but the Raps have few pieces that anyone wants. Basically Bosh, which doesn't seem likely at this point and maybe Hump.

Fortunately no one wants to spend any money this off-season, due to the economic downturn and the bumper-crop of free-agents next summer. Hopefully this means that BC can find a couple of role players to fill the holes on the wings.

Johnn19, I think your list is an excellent example of the type of player they are looking at.

I think that with the team that BC has assembled so far, this is the time to go into the luxury tax to add a couple of more pieces and make a serious run.

Both Parker and Kleiza like the Raps, and would fill out the bench perfectly. With Bosh having only 1 year left on his deal, any spending over the tax threshold would be a half year experiment; and if it fails, then you move Bosh or anyone else at the trade deadline and take back a little less in terms of salary. Then you're back out of the luxury tax.

To me, this is a no-brainer decision that should be made immediately because a starting 5 of:

Calderon
DeRozan
Turkoglu
Bosh
Bargnani

complemented with a bench of:

Ukic
Parker
Kleiza
Evans
Humphries

Would make the Raptors legitimate title contenders next year; YES, I said title contenders because on overall talent level they would be above both the Celtics/Cavs, and the only real question would be chemistry and learning how to play together.

It doesn't make sense to spend 70 million and then act like another 5-7 is excessive (if you're goal is to build a winner).

Rob

Have we officially renounced our free agents?

Given that the cap isn't yet set, and that no moves are official, do we still technically have control over our FAs?

There was speculation that depending on where the cap is set, and the exact figure for the first year of Hedo's deal, we may not have to renounce all of our guys.

For instance, Delfinos cap hold would be rather small as I understand it. I would be very happy if it turns out we can keep Carlos.

Another suggestion that has been made is to trade hump for little or nothing. Would it be possible to reduce our salary commitments before the deals are made official and perhaps be more able to retain guys?

So long as we don't renounce players, can we then resign them to over the cap?

2nd Raps fan in LA, he does not have the option of going over the tax. All BC can do is add minimum contract players or trade existing players for similar contracts. There is no way that he will reach the tax threshold by doing either of these things.

the only chance the Raps have to add anything above the minimum is if Turkoglu agrees to back end the contract, leaving the Raps with some money to spend below the cap.

TJ Caino, if Turkoglu agrees to back load his contract it would be possible to retain the rights to one or more of our FA...

Turkuglu's contract would start @ $9mil and end @ $12mil with 8% increases to get to $53mil. In that respect it is back loaded but still not enough to help.
You cannot make it $4/5 mil the large increases.

Uhm... would not be a right moment to restart talking about those trading scenarios with GS (and no, I am not referring to Hump)
Renato

I have taken some time to really digest the Hedo signing and here are my thoughts:

This is, once again, BC trying to catch lightning in a bottle. This is a great approach when it works (aka Boston two seasons ago) and possibly the worst approach when it doesn't (aka JO and the number of assets required to make the deal and then rectify the situation). I for one believe that you build a team over the course of time and take advantage of particular situations at a given time.

The problems I have with this deal are these:

1. Hedo is 30 and it is a five year deal. If you want to know why Orlando let him walk it was for exactly this reason. It made more sense for the long term viability of the roster to acquire Vince for a few seasons rather than re-sign Hedo for 5. I have a hard time believing Hedo is going to be a $12M a year player 5 years from now. His contract may not be a cap killer yet, but it will be. We are not that far off from readers rightfully complaining about Hedo and his contract.

2. If the cap situation dictates nothing more than minimum players then this deal really hurts in the short and long term. This team now has 4 core assets, a rookie and little else. The lack of depth hurt the team last year and could easily be the downfall of the team going forward unless BC manages to sign a few talents on the cheap.

3. I have said this a number of times - Bosh is not a max player. If the Hedo signing is to appease Bosh so he will sign a max contract next summer then this will be a crippler for the franchise.

4. Right now DD would have to start. Am I the only on who thinks this is a bad idea? Having watched him play this past year there is no question he grew as a player but even when TMac arrived on the scene he was not nearly ready to play starters minutes. Further, if DD starts is he the guy who will have to match-up against players like Pierce, Lebron, Wade, Kobe etc.? This could have a detrimental effect on the development and confidence of the rook. I don't think DD should start this season. In my opinion he is not ready and to do so would be mismanagement of an asset.

5. From a defensive standpoint and from a toughness standpoint this team remains very flawed. There are guys who could be signed for around the minimum and play solid D (Dahtay Jones, who the Raps passed on signing last year) so this could still be fixed, but this team remains VERY soft. Sure Reggie Evans is a thug but the rest of the guys are soft. Hedo doesn't address either of this deficiencies. Further, he doesn't help this team on the glass, something that has killed this team time and time again. As long as Bargnani is at the 5 the Raps need a 3 who rebounds like a fiend.

All that being said there are positives. Hedo can, at times, be a spectacular player. Although this past season was not as strong as the season past, he does give the Raps a really good wing man. That being said I find is odd that people would reference his play-off performance as the ultimate indication that this was a great signing. His points, rebounds and assists were all DOWN from his regular season numbers. Turk did have some GREAT plays, but he had an equal number of bone headed plays.

I could end up being wrong, but even after reading all of the comments over the past couple of days I still have a feeling that this won't end well.

I have a tough time believing this signing will turn a 33 win team into a 45 (plus) win team, which is what needs to occur to make this signing worth while.

The Raptors currently have 10 guys under contract for a total of 46,092,000. DeRozan will be signed for somewhere between 1.9 and 2.3 million. He currently counts 1.9 million against the cap. That puts the total to 48 million. They have tendered a qualifying offer of 1 million to Pops. That makes 49 million. Since they are under the cap, the MLE (5.6) and BAE (1.99) are added to the total. That puts them at 56.6 million, not counting all of the free-agent cap holds that they are likely to renounce to add Turk. I am estimating that Turk will get paid 9.2 million next year if he is in fact getting 53 million over 5 years, with 8 percent raises built in in. That would take the Raptor total to 65.8 million. That's over the projcted cap, so he could not be signed without shedding about 7 million. Meaning that the team is quite likely to have to renounce both the MLE and BAE. Dump them and you are back to 58.2 million. If that is the figure that they'll have to use than it looks like it could be league minimum guys filling out the roster. However, there are perhaps some options.

The Raptors have until July 23rd to rescind their offer to Pops. That would cut 1 million. That alone would not do much as it would only get them about a million under the cap. I keep hearing that Humphries, OBryant and Douby have only partially guaranteed contracts. If that's true and the Raptors can shed a couple of million by waiving them, then they could in fact have a few million dollars to spend on a/some bargain free-agent(s).

If it starts at 9, I imagine we would be able to retain Delfino.

I thought BC could clear as much at 11 or 12 million (depending on the amount of the cap).

So - are we allowed to retain Delfino, sign Hedo, then go over the cap to resign Delfino?

Pops' qualifying offer would be very small as well no?

HOWLAND...well stated. The issues you raised are all big "ifs" but they seem to revolve around this team not having the depth to compete.

I highly doubt that Turks is the final move. I wouldn't be surprised to see a Matt Barnes or someone like him capable of playing the starting SG spot sign for minimum.

I still subscribe to the "let's wait" philosophy to see what else BC has planned. If it turns out that Turks is the ONLY thing he had planned.....ummmmm....yea. =S

Oh... one other thought....

Maybe Roko starting at the 2?
Douby as backup PG?

Naaaaaaaaaaaaaa....I must be on crazy pills.

I will reserve judgement on this move.

Firstly, to see our position after the cap figs, and deal are finalized.

Secondly, to see what BC can do before training camp.

Thirdly, to see the position we are in a season from now.

The thing I was most surprised about is how, with the Bosh situation looming, this move does not necessarily put is in the best position to compete in the coming season. I interpret that as a sign of confidence from BC. (Whether this confidence is warrented or not will be determined - but it is still preferable to see from a fans perspective.)

JO was traded for Marion. Marion not re-signed in favor of Hedo. So, we swapped JO for Hedo.

In the season, I think most would have approved: Hedo is less injury prone, scores more and shoots better (how many short range clangers did JO have??), and rebounding is not bad.

Why do so many folks have Evans on the bench? I think he is the starter; DD is on the bench.

Jose
Turk
Bosh
Evans
Bargs

I'd prefer DD not start - but I would take it over the above line-up.

Gerry,

Evans over DD?? Can you really see Evans at shooting guard? Evans is a backup PF...right now he's probably the first "big" off the bench to spell Bosh/Bargs. DD is starting by default at the moment since no one else really plays his position. We'll have to see how the roster rounds out, but there's no way that Evans/Bargs/Bosh/Hedo are all going to be starting.

TJ,

Way to make the same point...only much more succintly. Kudos

Derozan is also excited about hedo coming to t-dto
dd twitter:Is Hudo really coming to T Dot? Really hope so!

Marion, Parker, Delfino vs Hedo, Barnes, Von Wafer

Who wins?

Does anybody remember what the plan was going into last year. The composition that had some people projecting 50 wins and maybe a 4th seed in the East? It didn't work but it's not like we knew that from the start. Bosh and O'Neal were to start with Parker, Moon, and Calderon on the wings and point. Bargnani and Kapono were supposed to be the focal points of the second unit, making up for any other potential scoring deficiencies with Graham who was coming off a reasonable summer league. Three things contribute to the poor bench -JO gets hurt too often, Moon's performance drops off a cliff, and Parker shows his age. Bargnani is moved into the starting lineup to counter the JO injuries and Moon's poor performances, and Kapono and Graham prove too inconsistent to fill in the starters roles they're forced into on occasion. I guess the point I'm getting at is with the injuries and fall off in performances from the STARTERS, our projected bench (Bargnani, Graham, Kapono) never materialized the way it was intended. Beyond the top 8 or 9 on any team,the falloff is dramatic. Our starting 5 this year projects to be stronger than our starting 5 from last year, so hypothetically it should be able to accommodate a bigger fall-off. What should also be interesting is how Bargnani's stint on the Italian National team this summer further evolves his game. Bosh, with the offensive pressure now off him can hopefully get into a position where he can have more energy to commit to the defensive side of things, similar to his Olympic role.

2 Things:

1) Doug Smith strikes me more and more as having a sycophantic type of admiration for Colangelo, and all that happens in Raptorland.

Here's his intro to his latest article:

"You'd think an NBA general manager would get a chance to catch his breath after landing one of the biggest available free agents on the market."

Since when is landing a free agent the pinnacle of success for a GM, so much so, that he should be given time to "catch his breath"; as though the guy ran down to Portland, and kidnapped Turk himself. You never hear a peep out of this guy regarding the decisions made by BC; and he did the same thing with Sam Mitchell. I'm growing tired of the praise for a guy who has led the Raps to 1 winning season since he got here.

2) Is Shawn Marion not the biggest idiot this side of JR Smith? The guy turns down a 4 year deal at about 9 million per, from the only team interested in signing him for anything above the MLE; are you kidding me??? This is the silver lining of the Hedo signing; getting to watch Marion have to settle for the MLE, on what will probably be a 3 year deal. He's gonna be making Kapono money......good riddance.

Rob

Howland I don't buy your age concerns. Hedo is 30 signed till he's 35 @ $53mil(5yrs). Vince is 32 signed till he's 35 @ $52mil(3yrs). I think Hedo is much better value for the same money, at the same age.

Let's let BC worry about depth, defense, and toughness as I'm sure he learned his lesson last year, and is a big reason in hiring Triano, and Iavaroni.

It's a long way to training camp, and his work is still in process.

With Marion not willing to sign with TO, he made the only choice available to him, which also would be a better fit if he fails to resign Bosh next year as he expects to.

In signing Hedo, he has included in his thinking that he will need to sign Andrea and Chris in the coming year per D Smith.

BC has made 3 pretty big steps, with Evans, DeRozan, and now Turkoglu, but is still walking.

I'm not too hyped about this deal as it stands to cripple our organization financially for years to come. Especially if we sign Bosh to a max cntract. Then we have 30 million dollars a season tied up in two players. Lets not forget right after Bosh comes the task of re-signing Bargnani.

However, Turk has been known to play a little point forward on occasion. So, in addition to another legit scoring option, he could take the pressure of Ukic should Jose fall to injury again. That seems to fill an immediate need, doesn't it?

We should not be worying about salaries crippling the franchise, as Colangelo gets paid a lot of money by MLE to do that , as well as build a winner.

If we get Delfino back, that gives us more insurance if JC goes down again. The loss of your starting point guard won't hurt as much because there will be a lot of people who can initiate in the half-court.

I still think we are puffy soft and defence weak right now.

Another positive to signing Hedo is that he wants to and is excited to play in Toronto. If what 2nd Raps Fan in LA is saying is true, Marion has made it clear that he does not want to play in Toronto. See ya!

Johnn19
If fans didn't worry about things like salaries potentially crippling franchises, then forums like this would not be needed. Besides, you think Turk is worth the same money as (if not more than) Vince Carter, so take that for what it is. Low blow? Maybe, but common!!!

Thinking out loiud...a nice athletic player that can work ? Dahntay Jones

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