Suddenly Delfino Doesn't Look Like Such a Sure Thing...

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 30, 2009 1:10 AM EDT Comment 63 comments

You gotta give it up for the Legomaster. Whether you like his offseason moves or not, he sure doesn't stand still for long. In a move that should be made official today by the NBA, recently acquired Devean George has been shipped to Golden State for Marco Belinelli...

Patrick O'Bryant won't get to spend as much time on the bench with the newest Raptor as he did in Golden State.

So here's the million dollar question early this morning:

Would you rather have Carlos Delfino at whatever price he was asking (presumably between $4M and $5M a season) for three years or Marco Belinelli for one at approximately $1.5 with an option for the following season at slightly less than $3M?

Yesterday evening, when Yahoo Sports confirmed that the Toronto Raptors had dealt Devean George to the Golden State Warriors for Marco Belinelli, that was indeed the question that popped into my head.

I guess to answer it, it all depends on how you value both players, and what you feel each is worth financially.

For instance, I was ok with Delfino returning. After all, I felt the Raptors still needed some help on the wings and thought he was one of the few productive options that remained via free-agency.

But it depended on the price tag.

In today's NBA economy, especially with Toronto seemingly being the lone bidder for his services, the last thing I wanted to see was a $5 Million deal handed out to Delfino, or any contract that was for over three years. As one of our readers discussed with me over the weekend, we would rather see Toronto pay extra for Carlos provided the club wasn't handcuffed to yet another long-term deal.

So while I did value Delfino's return, it was partly based on the lack of other options, and partly dependant on his final contract amount. So if a cheaper alternative presented itself...

In my books that's exactly what Bryan Colangelo has done here, presented fans with a cheaper, and possibly as productive alternative. Let's look at some stats.

I've compared Belinelli's key numbers from last year to Delfino's from his final season with Toronto below. I've also added in a few "Hollingeresque stats" to make the comparison more reasonable considering that Marco barely played for the Warriors the past two seasons:

	SEASON	FG%	FT%	P/40	R/40	A/40	TS%	TO	PER
Marco Belinelli:	2008-09	0.442	0.769	16.9	3.2	4	54.7	0.9	11.86
Carlos Delfino:	2007-08	0.397	0.744	15.3	7.4	3	52.7	0.7	13.85

TO = Career Average TO's

Statistically speaking, it looks like Belinelli is the better offensive player of the two. Delfino in contrast is a much better rebounder, and generally a more well-rounded player (reflected in his PER.) But PER isn't immune to playing time and given a good boost in minutes this year with Toronto, rebounding aside I'm not sure Belinelli wouldn't be able to equal or surpass Delfino's other numbers.

And considering that Toronto now gets a test run of Belinelli for a year and possibly a lot less money, this to me looks like a steal.

Devean George wasn't going to play much anyways so his subtraction is no loss. And in return for George, the Raptors get a player who addresses a positional need, and who fits with the other Lego pieces that Bryan Colangelo is assembling.

Having said all of this, there is I suppose the slim possibility that Delfino still returns.

However I sincerely hope that's not the case.

One of the added benefits of this move is that now there's some extra money suddenly available since Belinelli's salary was essentially swapped for George's.

And whether it be Pops Mensah-Bonsu or (we can dream) Linas Kleiza, there are still some useful players out there who could possibly provide solid returns on that extra loot.

FRANCHISE

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Comments

lovin bc’s moves. except we need a backup three right now. but the pace that he’s been movin so far bc will probably have that locked up in less than 24 hours :)

by $Money on Jul 30, 2009 1:16 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Delfino is a better fit now then he was before maybe?

I really like the Belinelli move for more reasons than just having a pure shooter on that second unit. I think now more than ever Delfino fits this team. You can look at him now as a SG/SF sub with some toughness and a defensive mind….and the kid can flat out take a charge!
This team looks impressive to me now.

STARTERS
Calderon
Wright
Turkoglu
Bosh
Bargs

BENCH
Jack PG/SG
Belinelli SG
Derozan SF/SG
Evans PF
Nesterovic C
Douby PG/SG
Delfino? SG/SF

Solid.

Likin it A LOT!

Never underestimate the power of denial

by vulcanoboy on Jul 30, 2009 2:06 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

ah what a steal, now were sure to be solid in the reserves. lol GS got robbed.

by KB1 on Jul 30, 2009 2:30 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Before We Get Too Excited

It’s always interesting to get the take from the other side. Golden State of Mind talks at length about the newest Raptor and what he does and doesn’t bring. Sure sounds like losing Belinelli is no loss to a bad team…that says a lot…..

Here’s the article.

Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jul 30, 2009 6:47 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

GS fans don't sound happy

Then again, read this one from the GS point of view, especially the comments section:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2009/07/29/warriors-give-away-belinelli-officially-for-devean-george-unofficially-for-no-apparent-reason/

by Gerry71 on Jul 30, 2009 7:46 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Ah, we paid Devean’s way to GS. Makes sense now.

by bigweeze on Jul 30, 2009 9:38 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Devean George is similarly useless, so it can’t be a good trade for GS unless they can figure out why they need Devean George.

At least we got the younger player with an option in the case he actually does become promising.

by bigweeze on Jul 30, 2009 9:35 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Forget the article

Did you watch him play the Rap’s in Dec ’o8??

Seeing is believing, look at his stats during Dec/Jan last year when he was playing regularly before he got hurt, and missed 25 games, and got lost @ GS. A very talented young (23) player who needs to play.

by Johnn19 on Jul 30, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

looks like a faster more versatile Kapono at a much cheaper price

http://raptorsrepublic.com/blog/2009/07/30/morning-coffee-july-30/

Watching this video, he looks like a 3-point threat like Kaps, with a willingness to drive, and an ability to shoot. Quick feet and good hands. I really liked that alley-oop to Biedrins; wondering how many times we’ll get to see that with a Bargs combo. This might be the real sleeper trade for the Raps so far.

Noticeably absent on the Youtube vid were any clips of defensive hilites. But hoping that Iavaroni will really give a lot of help with this kid in that area.

by Gerry71 on Jul 30, 2009 8:50 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

But PER isn’t immune to playing time

I think you misunderstand it.

by bigweeze on Jul 30, 2009 9:28 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

What Franchise means is that if you play more, you will get a larger sample of data to calculate PER… So the stats will be more accurate

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Jul 30, 2009 11:29 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Exactly. PER is simply a regression analysis of sorts but those types of analysis are much harder to acurately perform with smaller data sets. So I expect with increased playing time to see Belinelli’s numbers climb closer to those of Delfino.

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 30, 2009 1:13 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I don’t think you can make that assumption. You just can’t raise your rate stats by playing more minutes.

Funny enough, there are people who have noted that PER can rise along with minutes played for young players which counters the statement that I just made above. But the problem with that is that a high PER is the driver of more minutes, not the other way around. If Marco isn’t a good player, he won’t get more minutes. Does that bring about the return of the small sample argument?

42 games, 21 mpg isn’t exactly a tiny sample – it’s half a season for a rotation player off the bench. So if he plays more minutes with the Raptors this year, you expect that PER to rise based on what exactly?

Bottom line is that Marco could have overplayed what his “true PER” is last season, just as easily as he could have underplayed it.

Hopefully he has fixed some of his deficiencies noted by Warriors fans, but I don’t think you can assume much in what is essentially a garbage for garbage with upside swap. At least this is (one would assume) the perfect place for him to take another crack at the can.

by bigweeze on Jul 30, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

It isn’t exactly a tiny sample, but comparing to Delfino’s, it’s a huge difference. There’s a lot I hate about PER and Wage of Win stats, so I’ve always been really critical of them and this is one area where it fails quite a bit

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Jul 30, 2009 4:16 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Agreed. Any system that evaluates Jamario Moon as the most undervalued player has to be questioned.

Belinelli is just another option on the Raptor bench and I am guessing that the Raptors are hoping that having Bargnani and Gherardini around will help Belinelli improve his game. I am not sure if GS surrounded the kid with other Italians to make him feel comfortable but maybe it will help (not holding my breath).

by McGateway on Jul 31, 2009 9:15 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think he can be quite comfortable, but the thing that worries me about this kid is his ego. As was the same thing with Bargnani, Italians have this ego/machismo thing that kinda affects them and my only worry is whether Belinelli can overcome it since he’s still just barely a role player at the moment. There was an article a while back at how that mentality was affecting Bargnani.

So we’ll see.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Jul 31, 2009 10:17 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

What Belinelli needs is the same thing that Bargnani needed, a coach that has confidence in his abilities, defines a role, and gives him PT.

by Johnn19 on Jul 31, 2009 11:07 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Other options

Franchise, I believe the reality is that we either sign Delfino or we are stuck with minimum contract offers.

Unless he is willing to accept a minimum contract, I think Linas is out. But I like Pops at this point.

Anyone else thinks we got our starting 2 guard?

Calderon / Jack / Banks / Ukic
Belinelli / Derozan / Douby
Turkoglu / Wright / Pops
Bosh / Evans
Bargs / Nesterovic / POB

Hard not to get excited about this lineup. I think as Raptor fans we are too cautious with our optimism lest we end up eating our words with a 33 win season. The heck with it. I think this is a lineup that can compete with any other in the East.

by Zona. on Jul 30, 2009 9:39 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

We could be a Bosh injury away from a full-Euro starting lineup. That is hella-scary.

by bigweeze on Jul 30, 2009 9:44 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

depth charts

Myself, I’m still cautiously excited. It’s enough to be actually looking forward to watching them play!

But wow, it’s been a long time since it was interesting to look at toronto’s potential depth chart. I don’t know if belinelli would start though, seems like too much of a jacker, with questionable bball iq. I love the trade of course, but this is what I’m thinking – and it’s mostly a case of jack has to start, he’s earned it.

Calderon / Jack / Douby / Ukic / Banks
Jack / Belinelli / Derozan / Wright / Douby / Ukic / Banks
Turkoglu / Derozan / Wright / Pops hopefully
Bosh / Bargs / Evans / Pops
Bargs / Bosh / Nesterovic / Evans / POB

We need pops or another big still

It’s going to be tough to get minutes for all these smalls also

by axl t on Jul 30, 2009 1:26 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You can't start Jack at the two

Last year proved that we need a solid back up point. That’s Jack’s role, any else we get from him is a bonus. What if Jack started and picks up two quick fouls then who comes in for Jose?

Belinelli, Wright, and DeRozan are going to have to fight for that starting spot in training camp.

by CalexanderJ on Jul 30, 2009 2:51 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You could - and they might

You may be right, what you’re saying is sensible, but if Triano wants his best players on the floor to start the game, Jack likely plays.

That depends on what Douby/ukic/banks show early on, there might be enough on the bench to hide their weaknesses now.

There’s also the jack happiness factor, and the might-as-well-try-it-and-see-what-happens factor.

by axl t on Jul 30, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

You put your best players on the court to end the game when it won’t ruin your rotations, not to start it.

by bigweeze on Jul 30, 2009 3:47 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I disagree, it seems to me that the ‘best’ players almost always start from my watching experience – hence the bargnani at the 3 experiment to name an example. Starting lineups seem to have a lot of factors, including team politics(tj), how players react to cooling down before coming in (rasho), etc, etc, involved so there’s no end-all be-all answer here.

But really, if you look at my lineup, I have JJ behind calderon at the one and bellinelli behind jack at the two, so obviously I consider both scenarios likely since jack likely wouldn’t start at the 2, then move over to the one when the rest of the bench came in.

Good point though, that first lineup will probably be finishing most games.

by axl t on Jul 30, 2009 6:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Belinelli is a very talented player

Does anyone remember how he destroyed Rap’s ina late Dec ’08 game.

His line, 5/8FG3, 6/6FT, 6AST, 23PTS, in a display of his multi-faceted talents in a 117 point GSW win.

BC has been trying to aquire him since draft nite, and thru a failed trade last year, now finally succeding. He should be a great fit in the Rap’s Euro offensive system, playing for a true believer, in BC.

by Johnn19 on Jul 30, 2009 9:57 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Only thing I want to say about that one game, is that the Bucks got sold on Villenueva based on that one career high he had against their team.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Jul 30, 2009 11:31 AM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

Is a 15/20 game sampling more to your liking

Look at Marco in Dec/Jan early last year.

In round #’s, 14ppg, 1stl, 2.6rbs, 3.2asts, in 25/30mins.

by Johnn19 on Jul 30, 2009 11:40 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Yup. Good stats. I’m just saying that I’m not sold on him just with the one game he had against us, but rather with the opportunity and the group around him here

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Jul 30, 2009 12:00 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

D@mn near everybody has had

a season/career high versus the Raps over the last couple of years. Especially perimeter players. I’m not saying that Belinelli isn’t a good player, but the fact that he destroyed the Raptors is proof of that.

by CalexanderJ on Jul 30, 2009 1:07 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I remember reading something that said Jason Kapono was so bad he was making the average player he guarded into Vince Carter.

by bigweeze on Jul 30, 2009 2:15 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Liking Marco

Another nice move by BCo.

Thinking maybe a combo forward like Warrick would be a better pick up now than another combo guard/forward like Delfino?

by sbrother on Jul 30, 2009 11:02 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Warrick makes sense...& Great Trade!

Warrick gives us a lot of what we’re looking for from a 7th or 8th man…rebounding, length, athleticism. He makes a lot of sense for us, especially in the $3Mil/year range.

Got to say I love what BC is doing to make us younger and give us a different look from last year. Belinelli gives us another scoring option that can handle the ball a little and can play both 1&2 if needed. I can honestly say I’m optimistic and excited about this team for the first time in a long time.

Only 1 question….who plays defence on this team!?!?

The Eternal Pessimist...

by shrubz on Jul 30, 2009 11:19 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Defense

I think that’s a question we are repeatedly going to ask over the course of the season…..

Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jul 30, 2009 11:26 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Defense ??

A question for Iavoroni (hired to coach) and Triano to develope, and play the players who play defense consistently for 48 mins, unlike last year for a quarter or two only.

by Johnn19 on Jul 30, 2009 11:45 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Defense ??

Defense is 2 things:

1. System
2. Effort

Both can be taught by the coaching staff..
Both can be demanded by the coaching staff.

by Johnn19 on Jul 30, 2009 11:49 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ukic for SF

I really like this move. Essentially BC went out and got a younger, cheaper Delfino.

Now we just need to shore up our bench at SF and I think this is where Ukic can be used. Ukic is the trade bait for a bench SF.

I agree defense is system and effort.

I think one thing to value is the players your practice against. Jack Armstrong made that comment last year and it really stuck with me. Bosh going against Hump in practice, or what would Bargs get scrimagging against Jake Voskul in practice. But NOW a practice scrimmage can be pretty interesting. Bargs, Bosh, Turk, DD, Calderon against Rasho, Evans,Wright,Belinelli, Jack…none of those guys will go slcak on our starters, and that just makes our team that much better. Our bench has some defense which may rub off on our starters.

Who else is starting to get pretty excited for this comming year. Just to see how everything jells!

by WinnipegRaptorFan on Jul 30, 2009 11:56 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’d have to say that Belinelli is in the right staff to get something out of him. He’s got a coach that understands Europeans, another that teaches defense to them, a assistant GM that probably pushed for him, and a fellow countryman that has now adapted to NBA play and the city. It’s all on him now to figure out if he’s going to be a contributing factor.

I also think that with this move, Wright shifts to backup SF and Belinelli probably is your scoring punch off the bench. This way, you can minimize Belinelli’s defensive deficiencies against the more athletic starters in the league.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Jul 30, 2009 12:04 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Starters

I have said this a few times, I am not in favour of DD starting right out of the gate. The starting line-up already has a ton of weapons. He will see limited opportunities and be forced to defend the best….not the best for someone who is going to need some time to develop and grow confidence.

Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Jul 30, 2009 12:34 PM EDT up reply actions 1 recs

I’m not so in favour of it either, but at the end of the season, I think that’s the lineup we’ll see.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Jul 30, 2009 12:52 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Thank God

We did not give Delfino 5 Million per. I would have shot myself in my face. Am I the only one who remembers how badly he strugged after his inital success with the Raptors? Sure he rebounds and plays D, but his shooting was autrocious. If he comes back at whatever we have left on the cap great, if not, have a fun time in Russia or where ever he’s playing now. It’s not like anybody else in the NBA wants him.

by DominicSantiago on Jul 30, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions 1 recs

Totally agree. Raptors were bidding against themselves for his services and I was dreading the announcement of a 3 year $15M deal with options…

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 30, 2009 1:17 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

SF Options

Here are some reasonable SF Options in a Trade/Sign and trade with Ukic, and I’ve ranked them on my preference.

1) Mbah a Moute – Milwaukee (still a little raw but really like his upside)
2) Ime Udoka -UFA
3) Julian Wright – New Orleans
5) Rodney Carney -UFA
4) Ricky Davis (would have to trade Ukic and O’Bryant)

by WinnipegRaptorFan on Jul 30, 2009 12:58 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Ricky Davis?!

He’s the last person this team needs. Mbah a Moute would look great in Raptors uniform though and give us some much needed perimeter defense

by CalexanderJ on Jul 30, 2009 1:11 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Can’t see the Bucks letting Prince Luc go and Wright seems to be headed for a more prominent role this season in NO. No thanks to Davis but Carney is at least interesting. Udoka would be my preference of these five.

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 30, 2009 1:19 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Udoka

I think my preference of Udoka is well documented haha.

by WinnipegRaptorFan on Jul 30, 2009 2:10 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Dont hate on the Rickster. Sure he is the Ted McGinley of the NBA but you cannot deny 2 things.
1. The Raptors could probably get him.
2. He is not exactly a garbage player. He can be productive, all you have to do is put his brain and mouth to sleep. I am currently working a formula that we can slip into his splif that will make him a good soldier.

by McGateway on Jul 31, 2009 9:24 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Other SF Options

A rugged rebounding or athletic 3 would be a great final addition to this group but outside of Warrick and Kleiza (probably both far too expensive) what are some other options?

We’ve talked Udoka a bit but here are a few other names to consider:

1) Tarence Kinsey – Just waived by the Cavs he’s a 6-6 swingman who can do a bit of everything offensively, is athletic, and is a solid defender. He’d also be available for cheap. He might be a bit on the short side however if BC is looking for a more traditional 3.

2) James Singleton – A bit more of a 4 in the same mould as Pops in terms of rebounding and competitiveness but featuring a more advanced offensive game.

3) Undrafted options – With the pickings at the 3 spot relatively slim, what about taking a flyer on a player who had a promising college career but who didn’t hear his name called? Some names that interest me include Jeff Adrien, Leo Lyons, Wes Matthews, DeMarre Carroll, and most of all, Paul Harris.

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 30, 2009 1:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

I’d like to see them clear cut the crap on this roster — Banks and O’Bryant specifically — and open it up to guys with some upside. Right now, their 10-man rotation is probably set with Douby as an 11th man, if he is retained… Antoine Wright is probably the guy you’re looking to bump out of the rotation with whoever they sign or trade for, so proceed accordingly.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jul 30, 2009 1:42 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think Antoine Wright should be in the rotation, I’ll go as far as to say he’s our starting SG right now. There is no way If I’m Jay Triano that I feed Derozen to the wolves right off the bat. Antoine Wright’s perimter D can’t be looked past on a team that lacks defense as much as the raptors. I mean sure, he chocked big time on that one play not fouling Carmelo in the playoffs, but Rick Carlisle(sp?) went as far as to say he was their best defender last year. That’s the ONE thing Delfino actually has value in, he can start games for the Raptors at the 2 spot. What I would like to see happen is Antoine Wright start at the begginning of the year, Derozen be tested getting good minutes off the bench, and eventually Derozen starting at some point in the season when he’s mentally ready (all this barring we make a move for Delfino or someone else). Derozen is just so raw, you don’t know which way he’s gonna go if you start him in the begginning of the season. I’ve never heard anything about where this guys confidence lies either.

by DominicSantiago on Jul 30, 2009 2:04 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I guarantee Belinelli gets more than a fair look at the starting SG spot… especially with the Italian connection in the front office. That would relegate DeRozan and Wright to the bench. And that’s where DeRozan belongs, really. I mean, letting the rookie cut his teeth against the second unit is a lot more helpful than throwing him out with the starters and letting his confidence take a nosedive.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Jul 30, 2009 2:41 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Singleton used to be decent. Wouldn’t mind picking him up as we are short on SFs and he would give us some more height/athleticism/length.

by bigweeze on Jul 30, 2009 2:18 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Update on Belinelli Deal

Looks like the Warriors made the move because there was some cash involved.

And there is some logic behind the move after all regarding the situation they were in. Just strange that they couldn’t have gotten a bit more in return…

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Jul 30, 2009 4:18 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Euro-Ball

I too am glad BC saved himself from over paying for the questionable, marginal talent of Delfino. Anywhere close to $5 mil a year would have been absolutely insane. Hope you like Wodka Carlos!

Bigweeze, I share your concerns about the unprecidented amount of Euro “talent” on this team… Not because I’m a xenophobe, but because I fear that BC may have his own personal agenda/point to prove (European’s – specifically Italians – can play basket ball too!!). If this is truly the case, I would prefer that his first and only objective would be to put together the best ball team to win games. Period.

by MAS11 on Jul 30, 2009 7:25 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

i’ve said this before but i think the reason bc is going after euro’s is because they are more inclined to enjoy living in canada than US players who can stay in their home country and play NBA ball. signing international players who will want to live and play in toronto long-term makes more sense than getting american players that will bolt back to cali or NY or wherever at first opportunity. if you’re BC and the euro’s can play ball at a high level why not take that perspective and run with it? seems pretty logical to me

by $Money on Jul 30, 2009 8:28 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Why did we have to pay Turkoglu more money than Portland could even offer? Why do we overpay every international player to play here?

You talk about Euros balling at a high level. Why is it necessary that we have such a focus on this group of players, a region that puts out far fewer basketball players than the United States? Teams can barely scout North America accurately let alone the European system. As a GM when you’re acquiring a player, you want the best player you can get out of all players, not just the best European player. Sometimes the European will be the right pick, sometimes he will not be. But it seems to have been the “right” pick for BC far more often than you’d expect from a rational GM.

American’s don’t dislike Toronto. They just aren’t used to it. I’d imagine that most people who grew up in Canada while never living in the US would rather stay in Canada as well.

Bosh didn’t bolt back to the USA at his first opportunity – he reupped here and wants to leave if the team is poor. If you were busy winning a gold medal in the summer, you’d be upset too if you had to lead your ragtag team straight to the lottery.

Besides, American draftees can’t leave Toronto easily. They are locked in for 4 years by the CBA before RFA and have a chance at an extension after 3 years. To ensure that they get to UFA and can leave Toronto, they would have to play two more seasons (a total of 5) while turning down financial security for life (assuming non-ridiculous spending). Almost no player would decline to extend, I can’t even think of one.

by bigweeze on Jul 31, 2009 10:12 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

We make far too much of this whole “no one wants to come to Toronto” thing, and I don’t believe it. It’s just something the media really hypes up. Yeah, we won’t be the toast of the town like New York, California, or whatever, but who cares.

The reason why Colangelo made this team the way it is, is because that’s his vision and philosophy. If we didn’t like it, or whatever, then too bad. But this is how he thinks and feels. This is his vision of a good and improving basketball team. It might be wrong eventually, but for now, the team has some sort of identity at least for now. We’ll see if it works. No other GM has tried to do it so far.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Jul 31, 2009 10:22 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

One thing I find funny is that the way he’s built the team makes Bosh a worse fit than someone like Amare. Offensively at least, as on the other side both guys are a wash.

by bigweeze on Jul 31, 2009 11:10 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Colangelo had the infatuation before he came to Toronto. I honestly do believe he has something to prove. Wasn’t he the youngest NBA Exec of the Year? His next frontier (before he turned 40) was to be the first one to successfully blend European basketball (largely ignored) with the NBA (winning his first championship along the way). I think MLSE is complicit as well, think of the potential opportunities to make bank internationally if everything broke right.

Bottom line is that we (the worst sports city in North America) cannot be making decisions based on non-competitive reasons. When we start giving up value (acquiring the wrong players) or overpaying them for stupid or non-basketball reasons (friendship with CB4), I will raise a stink.

There are certain things every team needs to do regardless of who their players are. Score, defend, and rebound. We have constantly been one of the worst defensive teams and worst rebounding teams in the league. For a highly paid GM armed with the #1 pick and cap space to not address those needs was absolutely criminal. I really don’t have anything against European players – I’d be more than happy if we could acquire Biedrins to play center for us. I do however, have a problem with guys who play shorter than they are. This means soft, lazy players who defend and rebound poorly for their size and take alot of unblockable jump shots because they are afraid of working inside for high percentage shots.

by bigweeze on Jul 31, 2009 9:52 AM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

I think BC did a good job at addressing the teams needs this summer. Last year we had absolutely no one who could get themselves a high percentage look off the dribble. How many times did we see Bosh going one on one from 20 feet out at the end of games? BC brings in Turkoglu and Demar Derozan.

Secondly the fall of after Jose at the point was precipitous. When Jose was injured watching Soloman and Ukic playing major minutes was just painful. Enter Jarrett Jack a solid backup and by all accounts a solid lockerroom/leadership guy.

Third. Perimeter defense. Opposing wing players must have circled the dates they played Toronto. How many times did we watch Joe Johnson (admittedly a good player) or Caron Butler look absolutely unstoppable against the Raps “D”. BC brings in Antoine Wright, Jack, and Derozan. True none are Scottie Pippen, but they aren’t turnstiles either.

Fourth. Age. Despite being a ways away from contending last years team with J.O./Marion, A.P., Jamario weren’t exactly spring chickens. This year with DD, Belinelli, Wright, we’ve got some guys who theoretically still have some upside.

It’s true that this team still has rebounding and defense questions despite the acquisition of Reggie Evans, but I think BC did a great job of plugging what holes he could. The trade for J.O. last year was supposed to address the defense and rebounding issues and we saw how that worked out, this years team looks to be much better than last years.

by CalexanderJ on Jul 31, 2009 3:23 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Drafting Derozan is a good move in my books, but the Raps have been waiting for this type of player for 3 years. I’m happy but unimpressed that it took so long.

I don’t deny that BC has brought in players that fill holes we had last year, but those players come with their own sets of weaknesses. How many role players can we really deploy at once and still be effective?

Reggie Evans can rebound, but is not effective offensively or defensively.
Antoine Wright can defend, but cannot do much else either.
Turkoglu can ballhandle, distribute and get himself looks, but is a poor defender and rebounder. Shawn Marion was the opposite. He’s also peaked 2 years ago. As he gets slower and slower, things will get ugly in TO.

We needed a backup point, but we could have gone after a backup point more cheaply or for less term. I guess Ukic isn’t really impressing, but I would have put him in a position to compete for the backup spot – BC has slammed the door shut and now Ukic has 2 years as a lame duck.

And as we can see following our acquisition, there were other SG options to be had – you don’t want the undersized Jack playing extended minutes at the 2. Sure he is “2 players in 1”, but would you really sign 2 backups to 4 year deals each?

by bigweeze on Jul 31, 2009 6:33 PM EDT up reply actions 0 recs

Bella!

Seems like a can’t lose scenario for the Raptors. They lost Devean George, but his best days are behind him and the one thing he can bring to the Raps (defense) will more than likely be provided by Antoine Wright anyway. If Bellinelli flames out, well, too bad, but I can easily see him providing points off the bench. Just glancing at his stats line, he does seem to be a productive scorer given his relatively limited minutes.

by Skywalker18 on Jul 30, 2009 8:32 PM EDT reply actions 0 recs

Bellnelli

Just checking out the youtube videos of Marco and he has serious offensive game. Great range and can go to the hoop. Perhaps most impressive were a number of unbelievable no look passes for dunks. Looks great. Check out the behind the basket basket as well. On the other hand highlight videos of Devean George are surprisingly much harder to find and those I did find mainly date back from when he wearing a gold uniform or sitting on the bench.

by Groucho on Jul 31, 2009 12:40 AM EDT reply actions 0 recs