Limited Options
by RaptorsHQ - Archives on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT
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And they’re off.
At 12:01 this morning, the NBA’s free-agent frenzy kicked off with a bang...
...or should I say the sound of crickets.
Unlike past years when NBA teams jumped out of the starter’s block to sign players, this year was quite different.
The word around the league is that there are talks going on, but aside from Kobe Bryant, Carlos Boozer and Mehmet Okur deciding not to opt out, so far we’ve got tumbleweeds.
On the Raptors side of things, the same is true.
I expect Bryan Colangelo has been talking with Shawn Marion and his agent, and perhaps a few other names as well, however I wouldn’t be surprised to not see anything transpire today, or even tomorrow.
However with so much discussion on the site yesterday regarding potential free-agent targets, while we wait for BC to make his move(s), I thought it might be good to take a closer look at some of these names.
For this purpose, I’ve bucketed players into several categories categories.
The Good – Linas Kleiza and Walter Hermann
I think Kleiza is one of the more realistic options out there for Toronto. Why? Well for starters he could play the 3 and 4 so kills two birds with one stone there. Plus his arrival would negate getting another big in case the Jawai-O’Bryant experiment doesn’t work out. Second, you could probably sign him to a reasonable deal considering he’d have a much bigger role with the Raptors. Add on the fact that he’s still quite young, has nice upside, can stretch the floor with his shooting, and has the size and toughness this team needs. More Kleiza!
I left Fabio off yesterday’s list only because with Michael Curry gone, I think Detroit will attempt to retain Hermann. If not, he’s a bit like Kleiza 1.0 on my list, another player who can hit the outside shot, play the 3 and 4, and bring toughness and intensity. If Detroit doesn’t want to ante up for him and the price is right, he’s another player I hope BC takes a close look at.
The Bad – Channing Frye/Nate Robinson/Ben Gordon
In this group I’ve bucketed players who I’d rather not see in a Raptors uniform next year, not because they don’t have talent, but more because I don’t think it’s a great fit. Frye to me is a player who still has some upside, and probably didn’t get enough playing time with the Blazers. However isn’t he simply a better version of Patrick O’Bryant? Neither are great rebounders, and both are face-up shooters in the paint, not low-post presences. To me, Frye would be a much better option off the pine but with P.O.B. working with the coaching staff and expected to be on the Summer League roster, my bet is that he’ll be coming off the bench next year, not Frye.
Nate Robinson and Ben Gordon are quite similar in terms of their size and offensive prowess, with Gordon being the superior shooter and pure scorer, and Robinson being the athletic marvel. Toronto could use doses of both of what these players bring to the table, but Gordon will probably be too expensive (and will want to start) and I think the Knicks will let Lee walk based on their draft day moves, and therefore look to keep Krypto-Nate.
The Ugly – Allen Iverson/Rasheed Wallace/Rashad McCants
Let’s start with AI. Allen Iverson is one of my five favourite players of all time. Is he a proven winner? Not exactly. But pound-for-pound he’s one of the toughest and most competitive players in NBA history. While that sounds like exactly the type of player Toronto needs, I can’t see how this would work. Time and time again Iverson has shown that to be effective, he needs to be in a system where he can dominate the ball and control the offense. That’s problem number one for a Raptors’ team apparently looking to move the ball more on offense and get out in transition. Secondly, we all know about Jose’s defensive issues, so is playing Iverson at the 2 even an option? And just how long would it be before both Bosh and Bargs started to complain about Iverson’s ball-hogging ways?
The shame of it all, is that if Iverson was content to come off the bench, he would be an amazing asset for a team, Raptors or no-Raptors. He can still get to the rim with ease, and is relentless offensively. However between his need to start, his shot-happy style, and the over-zealous financial contract he’s likely seeking, I think we can put this one to bed.
Rasheed Wallace is somewhat of a similar situation; malcontent behind the scenes when not starting, trigger-happy at times, and probably not someone the Raptors want to take a chance on. Frankly if Toronto was going to invest in a long-range shooting power-forward off the bench, I think Charlie Villanueva is a lot higher up on their list. That’s not even taking into account that I doubt Wallace would even consider heading north, especially when rumours abound that championship contending clubs have their eyes on him.
And that brings us to McCants. At face value, Rashad seems like a very interesting option. He’s a bit undersized, but is gritty, can shoot the ball, and can be a very able defender when he wants to be. Hell, before last weekend, I would have thought offering him part of the mid-level was a good idea too.
Then last Friday night in New York, a former North Carolina alum who now writes for the Nets, gave me the goods on McCants. Let’s just say he makes Iverson and Wallace seem like Grant Hill and Kyle Korver. I won’t go into all the gory details but here’s one perfect example of how McCants simply lives by his own rules:
At North Carolina, the writer’s friend, also an aspiring journalist, had set up in advance an interview with McCants. The idea was to simply go through a few questions to get a feel for the team, especially since this was a Tar Heel squad that looked to be on the brink of an NCAA Championship. So to that end, the writer’s friend had prepared 50 queries, just to ensure that if the first 10 or so went too quickly, or didn’t provide much depth into the team, he had back-up options.
Well…the writer’s friend used all 50.
Why?
Because McCants decided he was going to answer every question with "yes" or "no," and made the writer sit through this whole charade until every question was done.
Yep, great guy.
I know the Raptors need some more grit, and even some edge, but let’s not confuse "fight" with "I live in my own world."
The "Not Going to Happen" Group: Trevor Ariza/Lamar Odom/Chris Andersen
The three names in this bucket would all represent big boosts in talent for Toronto, but I’d fall out of my chair if any of them were in a Raptors uniform anytime soon. Let’s start with Mr. Ariza.
I’m first off going to say that I don’t even like talking about Ariza, mostly because this is a player Toronto could have easily had years ago. As a Knick, Ariza was tops on Howland and I’s off-season list as a high-upside player the Raps should go after. He was languishing under then-coach Larry Brown, and seemed ripe for the taking. Unfortunately, the Magic did the taking when they acquired him and Penny Hardaway in a deal for Steve Francis. Ariza didn’t move any mountains there either, and was largely forgotten until being dealt to the Lakers, where he then began to break out.
Yes, Ariza in a perfect world would be the top option for Toronto’s off-season dollars. He’s athletic, can defend multiple positions, has improved his ability to put the ball on the floor, and is now a threat from long distance. Essentially what the Raptors desperately need in the starting line-up. But there’s no way LA lets him go.
Odom isn’t quite the same lock as Ariza and while another team might outbid LA for his services (Detroit, Cleveland etc), I don’t see him in red and black in the next few days either.
Andersen, much like Ariza, was a player I wanted BC to take a chance on last summer when he was reinstated by the league. He stays within his designated role, is a huge boost defensively off the bench, and provides a level of energy and intensity that’s rare in the league. And for those reasons again, I’d be shocked to see Denver let him go.
The "I Don’t Understand It" Group: Rasho Nesterovic/Charlie Villanueva
Next, we come to two former Raptors whose names have been mentioned in Raptors’ free-agent rumours for quite some time.
And personally, I don’t want to see either with the club next year.
I like both of these guys, CV in particular who I defended from the moment Rob Babcock plucked him in the 2005 draft. However isn’t Villanueva looking to start for a team next year? In Toronto at best, he’d be coming off the bench behind Bosh and Bargs, a luxury for sure, but probably a pricey one. And it sounds like Detroit and other teams who could offer him more money and playing time are coming a calling.
As for Rasho, yes, great locker-room presence and basketball IQ, but with Reggie Evans on board and Hump still around, unless he could be had for an extremely reasonable deal, I’m not sure how useful he would be except in a sort of Darrick Martin role. Of course if Hump is dealt, then this makes more sense but right now, there are other bigs I’d prefer the Raptors to take a look at like Zaza Pachulia and Marcin Gortat.
So with all that said, what do I think the Raptors’ roster will look like next year? Well I think Marion and Delfino will be part of the rotation, but filling out those final spots, I’m not sure I have any idea which way BC is leaning.
However how about the following final line-up?
PG: Jose Calderon ($8,219,009)
SG: Carlos Delfino ($2.5M)
SF: Shawn Marion ($7M)
PF: Chris Bosh ($15,779,912)
C: Andrea Bargnani ($6,527,490)
Bench 1: Jarrett Jack ($3.2M)
Bench 2: Linas Kleiza ($2.8M)
Bench 3: DeMar DeRozan ($2.5M)
Bench 4: Reggie Evans ($4,960,000)
Bench 5: Roko Ukic ($1,350,000)
Bench 6: Kris Humphries ($3,200,000)
Bench 7: Quincy Douby ($855,189)
DNP: Nathan Jawai ($736,420)
DNP: Patrick O’Bryant ($1,620,000)
DNP: Marcus Banks ($4,464,000)
It’s not the Cavs or Magic, but if healthy, it has the makings of a very well-rounded top 10, with some options beyond that.
I’ve put the salary of each player in brackets, and regarding a returning Marion and the other new additions, the salary I expect each of these four to command. This is by no means a sure thing, but considering that the Raptors are reportedly going to offer Marion about $7 Million and Delfino should be available for around the $2.5M mark, I don’t think that’s too far off. With those two under contract, Toronto’s total committed salary would sit at about $60,012,020, putting the team a few million above the salary cap, and thus able to use the mid-level and bi-annual exceptions.
With the mid-level, expected to sit at around $6M, hopefully BC could split things up between Kleiza and Jack. Their new salaries in brackets would represent a fairly substantial raise over their previous deals ($2,002,623 for Jack and $1,824,493 for Kleiza last year), but both could of course make more than this on the open market.
My hope is that the economy forces things down a bit, and so both would be happy to take raises, and bigger roles with the Raptors. We’ve talked about the benefits of Kleiza in depth but Jack I feel would be a big asset too. He’s a steady point guard, so a huge boost behind Jose, but also a player who’s big enough to play some 2 and who can score and defend both the 1 and 2 spots.
That would put Toronto’s total salary count at about $66 Million, so a few million under the expected luxury tax should it drop from about $71M to about $68 M, and thus giving the team some wiggle room and still allow them to hold the bi-annual exception.
Again, this is far from academic but the point of this exercise is more to provide a visual of what the Raptors are faced with financially.
You’ll notice that Pops Mensah-Bonsu is not on this list, and while I’d love to see him retained over the likes of Hump, Jawai and O’Bryant, the Raptors really haven’t given any positive signals that they want to retain him.
Marion is obviously priority A1, and as Michael Grange of the Globe broke down yesterday, things really start with the Matrix. From Grange:
Keeping Marion or doing a sign-and-trade with another team would mean the Raptors would stay above the NBA’s salary cap threshold, which in turn would enable the Raptors to use the mid-level exception and the bi-annual exception – available only to teams above the salary cap – to sign additional players which in a buyer’s market would allow the Raptors to add at least one and possibly two rotation players.
This is a huge point and one that I negated to mention yesterday.
If Marion walks for nothing, suddenly the Dinos are in a very precarious position. First and foremost, the price to acquire Marion was steep (Marcus Banks, 14th on ESPN.com’s recent "Cap Killer" list, and a first-round pick), and second if he walks for nothing, there aren’t a lot of great replacement options. Toronto might be forced to overpay for a player who isn’t as good a fit, and that of course would again leave last year’s depth issues un-addressed.
In fact, I think the reality in this whole free-agency situation is that regardless of the moves Toronto makes, for this team to get back into the playoffs, improvement need to come from inside.
If Jose and CB4 stay healthy, if Andrea continues to develop, and if the Raptors receive an unexpected boost from the likes of DeRozan, Jawai, Ukic or even Delfino, then maybe 40 or so wins is within reach.
However as I mentioned to one of our HQ team yesterday, that’s a lot of "if’s" and the bottom line is that regardless of what transpires over the next few days, you again have to question if this club’s core is simply good enough, or if a major overhaul isn’t needed.
FRANCHISE
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I like Kleiza and Jack a lot... though I fully expect Indiana to retain Jack and ship Ford out of town... Kleiza is a more realistic target as Denver doesn't have much wiggle room left to add him Jones and the Birdman.
I wouldn't be surprised if Kleiza is BC's mid-level target.
by lessthanzero on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Do you see Toronto still trying to push for an up-tempo style? And if so, how do we do that with Bosh? In my mind he is half-court all the way.
I'm pushing for Barnes in my mind.
by NC on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
The Good - not sold on Kleiza at all. No problems with him but he still spends most of his time outside the paint... we already have plenty of bigs that do that. Hermann I easily see playing the 3.... Kleiza is an undersized 4. (if he had an ball control I might say otherwise). I'd much rather see Hermann.
The Bad - right on the money
The Ugly - money again
Not going to Happen - totally agree except with the Birdman. If you offer him the right price and Denver can't match I think he could be had. However... that price may damage our cap.
Don't Understand - money again
Jarret Jack - would love to see him here... but I think its gonna cost more than 3.2 mil (and I'm doubting Indy lets him go)
Pops - "Raptors really haven’t given any positive signals that they want to retain him." They gave him a qualifying offer (around 1 mil I think) and if he does not accept they can still match any offer. That doesn't mean he is a lock by any means... but I would chalk that up to interest in keeping him.
by Swirskys Soldier on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Here's hoping our talent was better than our record last season. Here's to our health because, as stated, with our cap situation improvement has to come from the inside.
Cap situation won't get better when having to resign Bosh. Wonder what the Heat would throw in with Beasley? The Heat have watched other teams improve, don't expect them to stay still.
by Tinman on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Forgot to mention Marvin Williams is a player I'd like to see BC aim for. Young, athletic, good defender, good range, attacks the bucket. Can probably be had for a reasonable price. This is especialyl important if Marion doesn't come back.
by Swirkys Soldier on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Is it just me or is Toronto the only team that even has marion on their radar? Nobody's talking about him... Myself I'd like to see players with upside, rather than kown quanitities on their way down.
Forget delfino, rasho, parker, marion, cv (another pf, that's insane)... I would over pay for ariza and like pops, wafer, kleiza, even hedo (though I share some concerns) at fair prices.
I don't think this team is that close, we need some diamonds in the rough, some development, then if lightning strikes, great, if not, we're ready for the post-bosh era.
by axl on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
As per Doug Smith,the Raps are taking a run at cv31 & Kleiza ?
cv31,possible replacement for cb?
by d279 on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
If CV can be had for the midlevel, it is excellent insurance against CB leaving (and a great 6th man)
He's a better 4 than anyone we would get for Bosh in a trade, anyway - and at 6 mil/per certainly a better way to spend your money than Bosh's 20 mil/per
by Sales on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
The Chuck V rumours are interesting. But I don't think they have a shot at him anyway when you consider that Cleveland, Detroit, etc can offer him a starting spot and more minutes... Kleiza, Jack and Delfino would be a decent start in addressing the depth issue... The Marion situation doesn't seem like it will resolve itself until he (or more likely his agent) can wrap his head around the pay cut. My guess is right now they're 2 years and many millions apart.
by Geoff on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I guess this is what happens after a bad losing season, the expectations are so low that they are likely to be met or exceeded. Looking back at last year, in most games where there was production from the wings, the team actually won. Remember we were starting Jamario Moon at the 3 last year? Add to this Parker's major drop off and lack of depth due to a concentration of resources in the front court and the team ends up where it did. Calderon, Bosh, Bargnani, on any given night at least two of those three are going to be better than the player opposing them. The gamble that didn't pay off last year was Moon regressing, Parker regressing, and Graham still not being consistent enough to be counted on (not to mention the PG risk). With Marion or an adequate replacement, some more consistent production from the two spot and a re-invigorated bench the team is actually solid enough to compete with Atlanta, Miami, Chicago, and Detroit. I anticipate Boston will drop into this second tier, and who knows how chemistry and coaching will impact the situations in Cleveland and Orlando. 40 wins seems a pretty low, especially if BC is successful in balancing the roster. But I guess that's why they play the games on the court and not on paper
by Interloper on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
The Rashad McCants rant seems a little strange when you're talking about basketball fit for the Raps. One bad interview in college is enough to overlook him now?
Don't hold a grudge guys. Hug it out.
Forgetting the gossip, if he can play and accept his role like a pro the Raps should consider him.
by kidk on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Would love to see Jarrett Jack on this squad. Also, if Portland is successful in signing Turkoglu, I would think with he and Rudy Fernandes in the fold, Travis Outlaw may be in play... Too bad the Raps have little to offer that Portland would want...
by MAS on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I thought this snippet was funny:
..."The last I heard after watching South Park at midnight was that the Pistons had not made an offer to anyone yet. Though Chef’s mom had given $3.50 to get the Loch Ness monster to go away"...
http://blogs.bulls.com/chicago_bulls_blog/2009/07/ben-gordon-still-a-free-agent-as-negotiations-begin.html
by JENGE on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
First off, happy Canada Day to all, hopefully the weather is nice wherever you may be.
Here in Toronto, still waiting on any moves by BC.
Sounds like things are close with Delfino, and sounds like my estimate regarding Kleiza was pretty bang on based on this from Doug Smith's blog:
Kleiza, who league sources says has quite an interest in Toronto, would be much cheaper. He made about $1.8 million in Denver last season and could be had for a part of the mid-level exception.
The other player discussed was CV Smooth, who BC has also apparently reached out to.
At first, I was again confused as to why this makes much sense considering the team's needs at the wings and backing up Jose. I guess Villanueva could play the 3, but I'd much prefer to have Marion.
And as Doug mentions in his blog, and as I mentioned this morning, CV is a pretty expensive back-up if he's not starting.
However as you mentioned Sales, the interest in Villanueva could be for future purposes and frankly has me very excited.
This is probably worth a whole blog entry in itself but what if BC is bringing Villanueva back in the fold as insurance for Bosh? It could be a stroke of genius if Colangelo can grab Villanueva, and then move Bosh for other assets to fill the cracks. Suddenly the Raptors aren't worried about overpaying Bosh, have plenty of room to keep Bargs if they wish, and can probably bring in some top-notch talent in return for CB4.
Again, not sure if this is the rationale behind the interest in Villanueva but it's very interesting.
On the McCants note, the example I gave was just one of many that were recounted to me last Friday night. I'm not saying Rashad's the devil, but this writer, who was had run-ins with other "difficult" NBAers put Rashad at JR Smith times 10 minus the talent...
I'd much rather take another troubled soul with more talent like Von Wafer.
by Franchise on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
IMO Bosh is a goner, but BC will not look to move hime until he figures out which FAs he can land. That would be awesome if the Raps could get Marion and CVSmooth locked up for under 15 million per year combined.
I know this would sound crazy, but I would then consider dealing Bosh to Houston along with Banks and Hump for TMac. TMac will have to come back strong by the end of the year to get another NBA pay day. He would be a very valuable trade piece at the deadline for teams looking to free up money for their shot at next year's big time FAs, or to save money. I think you would get something really nice for him if you were to flip him at the deadline.
by JBen on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
So Doug Smith posted on his blog that the two guys BC reached out to last night were klieza and charlie v.
Delfino is pretty much a done deal, and the Marion situation is still ongoing.
by j on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I should qualify that the deal I suggested with the Rockets would be far from my first choice in terms of how to handle dealing Bosh, but I would do it if there were not good young pieces and or picks on the table for him (and CV + Marion were signed already).
by JBen on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
JBen, I think you work for the Houston Rockets organization; is your real name Daryl Morey, because that is a more lopsided deal than the one Babcock made for Carter. In fact, are you really Rob Babcock and you just want someone to make a more ridiculous trade than you made?
Rob
by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
J - Yeah, thats what basically this whole discussion today has been about LOL.
I actually like jben's tmac idea. Who knows, he's got a lot to prove so and even if he's useless, toronto could clear cap space once his deal expires. And maybe tmac makes like ray allen and rebirths his career? I mean, with yao's future in doubt, houston might have to do something so if you're the raptors, do you turn down tmac and few future first round picks plus some current help...especially if it looks like boshy is going to walk?
I know franchizzle has said this a ton but bchas painted himself into a corner here so if the trade deadline comes around he might just have to take what he can get.
by fromlongrange on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Fromlongrange,
Both your arguments are illogical because we get cap space NO MATTER WHAT because Bosh's deal expires. You guys want to trade a top 10 forward in the NBA for an over the hill star coming off micro-fracture surgery (he won't play the first half of the season guaranteed) and your rationale is that teams will be willing to give up more for T-Mac at the trade deadline than for Bosh.
Let me in on the secret guys; why would anyone give up more value for T-Mac than Bosh when both guys would be unrestricted at the end of the year, and only one can still play basketball at a high level???
Rob
by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Charlie V and TMac taking it to VC and the Magic! Damn!!!!1
I would love to see Charlie signed though, weak front or not; so what else is new?
Bosh and Bargs will probably be slightly tougher this year.(Right?)
Want to see Marion stay though.
What's the deal with Patrick O'Bryant? I've never really seen him play, why is he a higher priority than Pops? Is it a potential thing? A height thing? Just wondering if someone wanted to chime in why.
by DayOner on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
We could get a lot more for Bosh then TMac
Brooks
Landry
Scola
#1 Pick
Thats the deal we should go for..Plus puts Bosh in the west
We could always trade Calderon if we got brooks..
I know Portland would take Jose..THey need to upgrade their PG spot, plus Rudy is not happy, maybe Jose would make him better.. I would take Outlaw,Bayless and picks..
Brooks/Bayless/Ukic
DD/Delfino
Outlaw/Kleiza
CV/Landry/Evans/Pops
Bargs/Scola/PO
Two trades, 2 signings.. Def into the 2nd round!!!
by EricCoach8 on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Canada Day update from the Raptors' press crew:
RAPTORS ANNOUNCE BASKETBALL STAFF ADDITIONS
The Toronto Raptors announced Wednesday they have re-signed Eric Hughes and added Alvin Williams and Francesco Cuzzolin to their
basketball staff. The three join assistant coaches Marc Iavaroni, Alex English and Micah Nori on head coach Jay Triano's staff.
Hughes returns for his third season with the club, and his first as assistant coach/basketball development. He spent the past two seasons as a basketball development consultant.
I think the most interesting piece of this is Cuzzolin who for the past three summers has been the strength and conditioning coach for the Russian National Team, including its European Championship squad in 2007 and its 2008 appearance at the Olympic Games in Beijing.
Cuzzolin has previous experience working in an NBA environment serving on staff with the Chicago Bulls and Cleveland Cavaliers during their summer training camps, as well as at the annual Rbk European Big Man Camp.
The Big Man camp bodes well for the continued development of Bargs, and hopefully this will help Jawai and O'Bryant as well, especially in terms of physical strength and conditioning.
by Franchise on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Some ridiculous report saying the Raptors are going to offer Turk 5yrs/60mil!?
Funny how at the bottom of the article it says that the raps would have to renounce Marion, Parker, Delfino, O'Bryant, and Douby to make the offer. Somehow, I can't see that happening... not when Delfino is all but signed!
Turk just doesn't make sense... not with his salary demands, age, and skill set. Would he be an upgrade... sure... but at the moment he's priced... really hope there is no truth to the report.
by lessthanzero on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
That sounds like something put out by his agent to drive up the price because the way it looks right now, only the Blazers are really interested since the Pistons are looking at signing Villanueva/Gordon.
I still can't understand why the Blazers are even that interested in Turkoglu; they have Batum starting and Outlaw coming off the bench. The only team that really makes sense for Turk in terms of need are the Raps, but if they're going to sign a 30+ year old SF it's going to be Marion.
I still have my heart set on Ariza, but Franchise is right, there's no way the Lakers let him go.
Rob
by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Happy Canada Day everyone.
ESPN reporting that Charlie V and Ben Gordon are off to Detroit.
Not sure what that means for Prince...
by Vicious D on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Eventhough I was liking the idea of adding CV for a third of the cost that it will take to keep Bosh, I am happy to know that the Pistons have spent almost all of their money. Now it is near certain the Raps will be able to retain Marion (unless he is willing to take the MLE from a contender).
by JBen on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Wow, just saw the report too. WHAT THE HELL ARE THE PISTONS DOING?
I can see CV Smooth, he'll play the 4 flanked by Prince and whoever they stick at the 5. But doesn't paying out big for Ben Gordon mean that the AI/RIP Hamilton situation now has a Part II? Is Gordon going to come off the bench as a sixth man?
I don't know, just don't see how that's a great signing long-term.
So on to Kleiza I guess...although there still needs to be more work done besides simply him, Delfino and Marion in my opinion.
by Franchise on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Rudy Fernandez is unhappy in Portland. Could we swing a Hump for Rudy deal??? They need PF help.
Resign Pops and add Rudy.
by Zona on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I've heard that Gordon and CV both got five year contracts from the Pistons. Gordon's was a real whopper: five years, $55 million.
Kleiza is beginning to look like a very reasonable option. As many people have already suggested, I would love to see Jarrett Jack in Toronto. Tough, hard-nosed player who's a good defender.
What's with all the Marvin Williams talk? Seriously, is that one of the worst draft choices ever? Atlanta could have drafted Chris Paul or Deron Williams. Can you imagine that team with either of those guys running the show? And has Marvin really accomplished anything in the NBA?
TMac was a great player back in the day, but I think with all the injury problems he's had, the best you can expect from him is akin to Grant Hill in Phoenix. Too bad, he was a helluva player.
by Skywalker on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Unless the Pistons are planning on dealing Rip, they must be planning on playing Prince as a point forward for a fairly significant amount of the game.
Hump is terrible, if we can get Rudy or anyone of any value for him, I will be thrilled.
This is nit picking, but I hope that Marion gets a front loaded deal with the maximum decrease of 10% for year two and three - something like 8 million next year, 7.2 million in year 2 and 6.5 million in year 3. Considering that he will probably lose a step each year, that would make sense to me. A front loaded deal is always best for the player too, they gain more interest on their money that way.
by JBen on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Supposedly the Raps are already out of the Hedo sweepstakes with Kleiza a possible reality within the next 24 hours.
Haven't even heard if the Rps have made an offer to Marion, which should definitely be their immediate priority.
by Acie on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Also, after reading about McCant's, while I'm not a major fan, one hearsay encounter should not shape your whole perception regarding the guy. Could have been an off-day as I've heard he's a decent guy, just not overly personable.
by Acie on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I NEVER believe Real GM. Everything sounds like Portland is still the leading bidder, and I hope it stays that way.
On an out of nowhere note, the Grizz just traded for Zach Randolph by moving newly acquired Quentin Richardson. Great move by the Clippers (can't believe I'm saying that) and while on paper Randolph makes a lot of sense (Conley, Mayo, Gay, Randolph and Thabeet/Gasol is better than anything that team has had in years), I'm sure Randolph isn't exactly thrilled to be in Memphis.
by Franchise on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Why wouldn't Z.Randolph love this trade? There's lots to do.... I remember visitin' Memphis for the Grizzly Bear safaris.
Aparently they live all over Tennesee.
by JENGE on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
WOW, I can't believe the Clips were able to move Randolph, and clear the money off the books once Richardson's deal expires.
Now do you think they deal Camby next because his contract is easier to move, or do they try and deal Kaman for some different pieces?
Either way, the Clippers are going to be contending for a playoff spot next year. If Davis can stay healthy, Eric Gordon, Thornton keep improving, Kaman and Camby play well at the pivot and Griffin comes in and does what a #1 pick is supposed to do then I can see them overtaking teams like Houston/Utah/New Orleans.
Rob
by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Am I missing something here? Toronto is preparing a five year $60mil offer for Turk? Did I just take a crazy pill before jumpin on the interweb?
Wow... well the one thing that tells me is that Marion must be ready to bounce. He must have already told them he wont re-sign. Otherwise why on god's green earth BC be willing to overpay for Turks?
Wow.
Stunned.
by mcclarky on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
So Ariza's down to three teams - Raps, Blazers and Cavs with the Cavs only able to offer the mid-level. Will be a very interesting 24-48 hours with no player wanting to be left out of the old.
With the SFs available, who do you pick in between Ariza, Marion and Artest (assuming that Odom is staying put)? Would Artest be worth the game at $10 mill per year? I would definitely rank him higher then Hedo in relation to the Raps' needs.
by Acie on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Sorry last post should have read "left out of the cold"!
Can you see Marion on the Clips?
by Acie on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I like Klieza off the bench but I hope he isn't going to be a starter. He's a below average player IMO and im not sure y fans are so hyped abt this possible signing, are we really this desperate?
Detroit is out signing 2 young studs while we're here salivating over Klieza, the raps couldn't be more pathetic right now.
by Member29 on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Pretty exciting news on Ariza. Even if Toronto doesn't land him (I'm still highly doubtful), it's good to see BC so active.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4301414
I don't want to see Kleiza start either, but would still love to see him as a top 3 option off the bench.
by Franchise on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Per an article on ESPN, teams with Cap Room to sign FA's for 2009 as follows.
Detroit $18mil
Memphis $13mil
Oklahoma $11mil
Portland $10mil
Toronto $9mil (only if they renounce Marion & AP)
Sacramento $7mil
Detroit obviously just spent $17mil on CV & Gordon, so they are finished.
Leaves only Memphis, OKC, Portland, Sacramento & Toronto who can offer Turk or Marion more than the MLE, and Portland seem to like the Turk.
CV should send the Bucks a big thank you for making his career with a contract for $35mil plus.
Also just saw on ESPN Ariza is taking about leaving LA, because they are not offering enough. BC should talk to Marion and tell him to take it or leave it, and if he wants to go, make a good offer to Ariza, and team him with Klieza at SF.
by Johnn19 on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
envirocaper - your long-ass noooo.... thing makes this page impossible to read on an itouch/iphone... just a head up...
by axl on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Landing Ariza and Kleiza would be awesome, even at the expense of Marion and Delfino. Both Ariza and Kleiza are only 24. A young core of Jose, Ariza, Kleiza, Bargs (maybe Bosh) would look good in a couple of years (especially if DeRozan develops).
by JBen on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Sidenote - If Ariza does leave the Lakers (hopefully to Toronto). LA must be bringing in Artest/Marion and bringing back Odom.
by JBen on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Naming rights-
Zaza Brothers?
The Zaza?
Or for the big duo play-
"Za Za Gaborio!"
Yes, time for sleep, though a boy can/will dream. This will be a major day.
by Acie on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Would Paul Millsap,not be a consideration? I dont think the Jazz can match...
by d279 on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I am not sure if we are going to get much in the free-agent market but that doesn't mean we cannot get something in trade.
1. I hate to say this but, dealing bosh to the clips may be a good move. If the clips have flipped Randolph out then suddenly the log jam goes away and a deal is possible. Bosh (plus cap filler if needed) for Camby, thorton and mardy colins (i doubt they give up griffin even if we gave them a unprotected 1st). Clippers get Brand 2.0 back and raptors get pretty much everything else they need.
2. Make a move with Portland for Martell Webster. Webster missed all of last season with an injury so it is a gamble but his salary is reasonable and he was starting to look very good when he went down. Portland has too many wings and they might consider moving Webster as a result. Not sure what we could send back though (maype Humphries and a lottery protected pick (say to the 9 spot).
by McGateway on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I am confused as I just looked at the Fortunate Top 50 pros (top 50 money makers) and Bosh is not on the list but Marion, Redd and Bibby all are. If I were Bosh I would fire my agent immediately and get one in Canada as there is now way he should be making less than 5 million in endorsements a year (Giving him a combined salary of 20 mil). I know basketball isn't as big in Canada as hockey is but come on. The lowest number on the list was 15,000,000. How does Bosh make less than that with endorsements and salary. Just plain sad.
by McGateway on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I know that trading within your division is frowned upon, but would you consider the following to be a decent return?
Bosh for Brook Lopez, Terrence Williams, CDR and Bobby Simmons.
Simmons sucks, but he has a ten million dollar expiring contract. Terrence Williams and CDR would be nice additions on the wings and Brook Lopez would pair very nicely with Bargnani.
NJ is said to want to land 2 max deals in 2010 - I am already assuming that means that they will be targeting Lebron and Bosh to play with Devin Harris.
by JBen on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Told you guys we would be in the hunt for Ariza.. SO exciting!!
Gotta a better one for you
Raps Shift Focus From Turkoglu to Lee?
Posted: 7/2/2009 4:39:00 AM
Source: Doug Smith of The Toronto Star
The Raptors are widening their NBA free-agent search that now includes one of the more intriguing players on the market.
Capping a whirlwind 24 hours to open the negotiating period, league sources say Toronto is trying to obtain David Lee, an energetic rebounder who is a New York Knicks restricted free agent.
The sources couldn't say whether the move on Lee would be a straight offer or whether it would be a sign-and-trade transaction with any of Toronto's current free agents.
Lee's name is added to a list that began with Charlie Villanueva – who ultimately signed a five-year, $40 million deal with the Detroit Pistons – and Denver's Linas Kleiza, a solid if unspectacular part not in the class of Lee.
by EricCoach8 on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
JBen, Nice deal; not sure NJ would give all that up tho.
by Member29 on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Have to say that now with all the David Lee talk that the Star just broke, you have to come away impressed so far with how active BC is. Love to see Lee on this team, and even though he'd be coming off the bench, you'd be hard-pressed to find a better fit next to Bargs in the starting line-up...hint, hint.
Again, to me it looks like BC is trying to stock up just in case Bosh has other ideas.
by Franchise on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
PS - EnviroCaper, sorry took out your nooooooooo comment because it was making things hard to read.
But I'll reiterate what you said if it is true that TO is preparing that ridiculous offer...
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
by Franchise on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Anybody heard abt the Raps wanting to make an offer to David Lee? Could this be a precursor to a Bosh trade? I don’t see how Lee fits into our rotation up front with Bosh, Bargs and Evans already making good coin playing there. Also, I don’t see how we could offer 8-10mil as the report says, where would that money come from? Maybe it’s a sign and trade with Marion?
If there is any truth to this rumor I’d like to see this happen:
Sign and trade Marion for Lee
Trade Bosh & Banks to GSW for Ellis, Azubuike & Claxton
Sign Delfino & Klieza
Line up:
Bargs/POB/Jawia
Lee/Evans/Hump
Azubuike/Derozan/Klieza
Ellis/Delfino/Douby
Claderon/Roko/Claxton
Based on the "limited options" + the potential to lose Bosh next year, I say trade in the name of doing good business and building a competitive team.
by Member29 on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Something smells fishy in Raptorland this morning... I like it. :)
by ustation on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Can someone translate? Looks like Anthony Parker signed with Real Madrid?
http://www.as.com/baloncesto/articulo/real-madrid-estudia-fichaje-
by ustation on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
if we sign lee, could we have a big lineup of bargs bosh and lee? on offense bargs could play as the 3, but on defense he'll play the 5. would that work??
by paul on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
The only way I can see getting Lee would be in a sign and trade for Marion.
But there is no way a Lee-Bosh-Bargnani lineup would work. The defence would be HORRIBLE!
I'm guessing if we got Lee that Bosh would be out the door soon enough - but even then, Lee-Bargnani front court would also have horrible defense (worse than Bargnani-Bosh, which is really saying something)
by Sales on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I think it's as much about more complementary pieces being put together. Even if those pieces individually are not stars, collectively it is a better team. Lee + quality filler (which should include New York's first rounder next year if it's available or Jordan Hill) for Bosh, Hump, & Banks addresses needs for both depth and rebounding. Lee is the sort of PF that would work well with Bargs, true. Bosh in New York this year makes sense because it makes it a more attractive landing place for LeBron. S &T Marion to LA for Ariza also makes sense for both sides actually so that is more possible than maybe previously thought because there is also the lure of bigger role in T.O. While we're at it, what about moving Calderon for Rondo and cap ballast? Does that work for both sides--Boston's championship window is closing and it's been suggested he's a malcontent. Calderon is an exceptional team guy who can shoot the lights out from the point guard position? That would really be interesting because then we have a pretty solid defensive team with players that can also score. I guess this time of year is kind of fun.
by Interloper on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
ustation: regarding that anthony parker article, all it's saying is that they're interested, and that apparently parker isn't getting the proper offers here in the NBA so he's looking to make a move to europe for a bigger contract. he doesn't say anything official is in place, or even whether parker is actually interested in playing for Real Madrid.
on a funny note though: the comments section below that article is going nuts, confusing Anthony Parker with Tony Parker!
by papa on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Love the marion to LA for Ariza sign-and-trade idea but because LA is over the luxury limit, doesn't that mean a sign-and-trade isn't an option??
In any event, I haven't been this excited in an off-season for years!
by lurker on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Okay Franchise....Howland.... what's the word on the street? Anything official or almost official being mentioned?
by mcclarky on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Sounds like a positive day potentially in Raptorland, so i dont want to rain on our parade, BUT...
I really believe Ariza is only a product of the system he plays in. Phil Jackson's system has made many a player look good over the years. Look at his reg season stats from last year...they aren't that great! Ariza is a guy that I would love to see on our squad for the mid level exception, but not for more. I know he is only 24, but if we are going above the mid level exception i would rather keep Marion right now...
by jigga on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
i do love Ariza though... just not for 7-8mil per year, that's all!
by jigga on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Franchise ithink you're on to something. Surely a David lee deal heralds the post-bosh era. Would be a decent value IMO. As tough, as good defence, maybe less scoring but, less holding the ball. Less injury prone? Anyone know lee's history on that?
by Axl on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Thanks Pappa. Anyone else find it funny that the day we welcome Alvin back the picture is of him getting his ankles broken by AI?
by ustation on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Less injury-prone for sure, and if you can get Lee for the peak of his athletic ability (one of his major advantages over other players), then that's a bonus too.
Word on the street...not much right now. Delfino might be the only signing we end up hearing.
However the Raptors just sent us the summer-league roster etc so Howland is about to post regarding that and a few other notes...
by Franchise on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
So with all this talk of Portland landing Hedo (which makes no sense, he'll just take the ball out of Roy's hands). it sounds like Rudy is upset.
Any chance he's someone BC could inquire about? I wouldn't even begin to know what his value is. But he's def a pretty exciting player to watch.
by j on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Nothing will happen until Marion's status is determined. MGrange's comments today are that his agent says talks with Colangelo are positive.
He is the key to the moves re the Cap space & any signing exceptions available.
If he signs, the moves are Marion, Delfino, Klieza, and Parker or a comparable replacement. If he dose not wish to sign things become very complicated.
by Johnn19 on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
What's with Smush Parker being on the summer league squad?
by ustation on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Smush was a starter in this league once; he sucked at it but there might still be some potential there. He's worth a look.
by Member29 on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Why is everyone so damn high on David Lee? He put up decent numbers on a bad team that plays D'Antoni Defense which is to say NO defense at all. Not to mention that they did not have another decent rebounder after they traded Randolph. Lee led the team with 11.7 and the #2 guy was.......Harrington with like 6 a game. Hell on a team like that Jason Kidd will pull down 10 boards a game (maybe that's why he wants to go there, so he can average a triple double).
I think a move for Lee is invariably worse than one for Turkoglu; at least Hedo solves the need at SF.
Again, as I've said before, this team lacks an identity and a plan by which it will abide. Is this team being built to win now, or win later by bringing in youth/depth? If the Raps are trying to win now, then blowing their FA cash on the first big man off the bench (Which is what Lee would be unless Bosh or Bargs is traded) and not addressing their glaring need for athleticism at the 2/3 is absolutely ludicrous.
What a joke.
Rob
by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Not an awful lot to shout about with the summer league roster. I'm guessing most of the players are there just to fill out the roster, and that the Raps will be watching DeRozan, Jawai, O'Bryant, Ukic and Douby to see what they've got.
The Raps definitely seem to be active. I don't believe all the Hedo rumours re Toronto. Kleiza would be a nice bench player and it looks like they can get him at a relative discount, so it really comes down to Marion, Ariza or Lee. All three players are great in the open court. Marion and Ariza are excellent defenders. Marion and Lee are a notch above Ariza where rebounding is concerned. Ariza and Lee are both young, while Marion is 31. Tough call.
by Skywalker on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
2nd Raps, the same can be said for Bosh re: putting up big numbers on a bad team. Was NYK that much better than Toronto? I think Lee is a pretty decent player and would put up those numbers on any team. Obviously if we acquired Lee there would be another move to follow, probably a pretty big one involving one of our core players.
At the end of the day you can't front on a 16 & 11 guy; that's worth 10mil for sure.
by Member29 on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
2nd Raps, if Colangelo aims to be creative after conceding Bosh will be gone, and is looking to replace Bosh's rebounding contribution and some of his scoring with a PF who operates in the low post, Lee and quality filler works in a sign and trade scenario. Yeah, we give up the better player, but the return piece is pretty complementary to the players we will still have. Lee has always been a good rebounder, going back to his college days, so the rebounding numbers don't have much to do with the D'Antoni system. What his participation in the D'Antoni system suggest is that he's workable in that uptempo offense the Raptors aim to run. It's not really a move that makes sense as an addition to the current team with Bosh in place, given it would be a heavy concentration of resources to front court like last year with little to use on the wing deficiencies, but in place of Bosh it would be decent. The GSW trade suggestion, although consisting of players with potential, (a) outside of Biedrins don't have many known commodities, (b) would require GS to try to get an unlikely guarantee on Bosh's return and (c) would require Bargnani move to PF, where he would lose part of the advantage that make him effective as a starting centre. I doubt it is a move made in isolation, it is simply something being considered as one of many contingencies
by Interloper on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Wow...Rob (2nd Raps Fan) you sure are gettin worked up over Lee. You have to remember that these are "talks". In fact, I think at a time like this it's in EVERY gm's best interest to talk to as many FAs as they can. It's relationship building...networking...making sure that when things change you have options out there. Talking with a guy like Lee is a good step in preparing for WHEN Bosh leaves.
That said, I like what Lee has done in the league so far...pretty impressive for a young guy so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt that he has upside. I think your assessment of him is pretty over the top.
You do make a good point wrt team identity though. This team seems to have lost their direction ever since the great Mitchell/Garbo/TJ fallout of years past. Mitchell winning COY really started an epic tailspin that the raps still seem to be caught in.
Let's see how this all plays out over the next few days though. Once Lee is signed THEN you can remind us all of how bad an idea you told us it is. ;)
by mcclarky on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Skywalker, I agree and am excited about the team picking up Keiza, since he can provide a big scoring boost off the bench; however, as far as choosing between Lee, Marion and Ariza, it's a no brainer.......you go get Ariza because he is the youngest, will come the cheapest and is just coming into his own after a great championship run with LA.
The fact that the Lakers won't go above the MLE for Ariza, makes the Raps players. There are reports that Cleveland is targeting Ariza, but I think they will end up with Ron Artest.
Is there anyone on the market that better solves this teams needs than Ariza?
Rob
by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Guys, I like Lee, but not if you're trying to win this year WITH Bosh. If you're moving Bosh for Lee (and other assets) or are acquiring Lee to pave the way for a Bosh trade then I'm all for that.
However, what I am upset about is that this team seems to lack a plan, even as it approaches free agency. I thought we were trying to address our needs at the 2/3 spot.
I think I'm just upset that BC isn't keeping me in the loop.
Rob
by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
This would be the perfect time for BC and Maurizio to flee the country and leave our franchise in shambles.
I couldn't think of a better moment in time to do it....lol
by JENGE on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
We decided to save the summer league roster update till tomorrow morning so we could see if any free-agent moves go down tonight. At face value though, pretty weak squad with only Demetris Nichols and Smush Parker of interest. And frankly, if you're looking at Smush, you can't have much confidence in Roko can you?
Also, from Hollinger's chat, apparently I'm not the only one who now things McCants is a head-case:
Marc (Charlotte)
Where is Rashad McCants going to end up? Granted he doesn't play much D, but he can fill it up on offense.
John Hollinger
I agree that he's really talented, but he's such a nut case that he might have to earn his way onto a roster in training camp. Nobody is going to spend anything of consequence to take a chance on him, that's for sure.
by Franchise on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Ok, maybe this has been touched on before, but Maurizio's contract is up at the end of this year, BC has two years left. I think this might be the year the team wants to make big strides, hence the lack of action thus far. If something big is coming we will not know about it until it happens as there are very few leaks from this brain trust. BC, it has been reported, loves to make deals so I'm not too concerned about the lack of action to this point, but I figure whatever moves he makes are aimed at being competitive this year and really competitive next year, unless he plans to re-sign, in which case a long build could be in order. He doesn't strike me as one who likes to leave his team in shambles so maybe another way to look at any moves made is what they suggest about his long-term intentions with regards to the Raps.
by Interloper on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I keep hoping to read that the Blazers have signed the big turk....please
The Cavs are pulling all stops for Trevor...
by d279 on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Franchise, I have to say I've never understood why people value McCants so highly. He just ain't that good. Didn't he play with that NC team that beat Illinois for the title a couple of years ago with the like of Felton and May? I have to ask, because he was absolutely invisible.
by Skywalker on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Artest is apparenly going to the Lakers for the MLE, that should signal the end for Ariza in LA. I like it.
by JBen on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Artest to LA is good for the Raptors for two reasons. First, it puts Ariza in play. Second, as the rumoured deal is 18 mil over 6 years, it sets the going market rate for multi-dimensional Small Forwards at around the mid-level exception... Right in the Raptors wheelhouse. If Artest signs for around the mid-level, its hard for Ariza or Marion to expect much more. The plot thickens...
by MAS on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
What I find amusing ,is that a lot of the players that some so called arm chair experts,myself included are getting signed for some good money.
We have all said it,someone can't play defence,no jump left in his legs,on and on and on.
I guess beauty or in this case talent is in the eye of the guy writting the cheque.
At least B.C.s out there ,but our cupboards are bare.
by d279 on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Dream Scenario:
A) Bosh dealt for a/an expiring deal(s) + a/some young players that fill holes. My dream scenario would be to deal Bosh for an expiring contract plus a young player or two that would fill holes on the team, while saving the Raptors about 3 million (the Raptors could take on as little as little as 12.57 million in exchange for Bosh - saving up to 3.22 million). Example - Bosh for Bobby Simmons and Brook Lopez ($12,815,880 - $2,964,032 less than Bosh)
B) Decline the option on Jawai and waive O'Bryant (only .5 million is guaranteed). That would save the Raptors another $1,856,420.
C) Sign DeRozan for 2.3 million (rookie scale)
D) Renounce the rights to Delfino, Graham, Parker and Marion - leaving the Raptors approximately 15 miilion under the salary cap
E) Sign 2 key free agents with the 15 million. Example Lee and Ariza.
F) Use the MLE and bi-annual exception to add 2/3 suitable role players. Example Kleiza, Rasho, Udoka.
The key being A and B lead to E being possible. I think it is a buyers market this year and 2 quality guys could be locked up if the Raptors were to free up just a little more money.
by JBen on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
JBen:
""D) Renounce the rights to Delfino, Graham, Parker and Marion - leaving the Raptors approximately 15 miilion under the salary cap
E) Sign 2 key free agents with the 15 million. Example Lee and Ariza.
F) Use the MLE and bi-annual exception to add 2/3 suitable role players. Example Kleiza, Rasho, Udoka.
The key being A and B lead to E being possible.""
Further key being D leads to F being impossible.
Artest to the Lakers eh?
Ariza to Houston for MLE?
by TJ Caino on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
This is the first I hear of Trevor to Houston ? where did you hear this ?
by d279 on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
That Artest signing really shakes things up. Are the Lakers even going to be able to bring back Odom or is he done in LA as well?
Either way, I am getting the feeling that something bigger is going on with the Raptors. Apparently, Kleiza likes the Raps and is willing to wait on BC to settle some other things first.
I wonder whether the "other things" are re-signing Marion and Delfino......or something bigger, maybe involving Bosh. It would make sense that BC would have interest in a guy like Lee, if the Raps are quietly shopping Bosh.
Franchise, do you get the sense that this may be the case, or is it just wishful thinking on my part?
Rob
by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Franchise
NBA.com had an article on free agent bargains still available. How about Ramon Sessions instead of Quincy Douby or somehow, instead of Marcus Banks, Brandon Bass instead of Kris Humpries and Pachulia instead of O'Bryant.
That would really solidify both front court and backcourt.
by melon on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
ESPN is reporting that Ariza has made a verbal commitment to Houston; so unles he pulls a John Salmons it looks like he's off the market. If he ends up signing for around 6mil per season, like Artest, then that pretty much means that Marion will be looking for the same.
In that vein, what's the hold up with Marion? We know he can't be looking for Hedo money at 10 mil per season, and the Raps are offering 7mil per year in a market where his positional peers seem to be signing for less.
Rob
by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I'm pretty disapointed at this point,who is left?...a quazy big name that can have imediate impact !!!
Obviously Marion will be the only playa left !!! and he wants to go to a contender,Boston,Cleveland,
Detroit...nothing against Kleiza or Lee but come on,something has got to be up B.C.'s sleeve.
Please not Turk...I don't care how much he likes T.
by d279 on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
I think Marion is waiting for the dust to settle on guys like Ariza, Artest, and Hedo. Why would a team entertain giving up assets when a similar-type player can be signed as a free agent? And why not let the pressure build on Toronto, since there are two branches to where this offseason can go, and Marion's situation is the start of the fork.
In regards to the MLE, I only want them spending it all if the player is a good fit. Better to spend half the MLE on a player they really want, then use up the rest on a player they are just lukewarm about.
I'm not a fan of Hedo on the Raps, but part of his intrigue is his point forward ability. I don't know how long it will take for DD to develop playmaking abilties, and refine his passing and ballhandling. Having Hedo run the offense at times from the SF, would allow the Raptors to simplify DD's role. The key downside I see is on defense, its no secret that Hedo is closer to Kapono then Marion in that area. I'm still at odds over whether being below average in terms of athleticism and quickness at the PG and C spots hurts the team too much in the long term. If your PG is lacking, then you need a rangy interior defender to challenge those jet-quick pgs driving the rim. Conversely, if the center isn't quick on rotations, then you need a pg capable of limiting dribble penetration at the point of attack. From a team building standpoint, this is why I admire what the NO Hornet's were able to do with their core. Between Paul, West, and Chandler, they've got a core which both complements and amplifies the skills of everyone else.
by yardly on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
^Great point re: Marion waiting things out. He can always take the MLE and go play with Lebron in Cleveland, since they missed out on Ariza/Artest.
As far as your point regarding the Hornets, I couldn't agree more; they put together players that fit well. However, I think that's because they had a team building philosophy and stuck with it; with the Raptors, I don't see that same team building philosophy, it seems more like a hodge podge of players.
Rob
by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jul 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
The problem as I see it is,lack of any stability.A "good player" will not entertain an offer from a team in flex.
The first question besides how much $,is my client would like to know who will be around before I sign this contract?
Why would anybody in their right mind consider coming to us right now? other than offering some crazy amount of cash that would cripple this franchise for years.
If Bosh wants out,let him go,we are being held hostage,no fault of Bosh,thats good business on his part...but we are getting screwed,at this point I would tell Marion the offer is off the table...and lets get on to rebuilding this once proud franchise.
by d279 on Jul 3, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
d279,
I am not expecting any of the examples that I posted in my last post to happen, nor I am banking on Bosh being traded for a package that saves the team 3 million, but how is that impossible?
Based on salary cap rules, 2 teams that are over the cap need to be within 125% + 100,000 of eachother. That's where the numbers for point A came from.
Any money saved in a Bosh deal or any other deal would go directly to our cap space (sits just under 10 million now once DeRozan is signed - if other players are renounced or sign elsewhere)
Point B - Only part of OBryant's contract is guaranteed. He could be waived for just over a million in savings?
I do not think the option on Jawai has been picked up yet. If it has, you can forget about the possibility of adding 3/4 of a million to our cap space by letting go of him.
Marion and Delfino could be resigned, even if points A and B from my last post were done. The team would still have extra cap space to bring in a player/players before even getting to the MLE. I personally think that would be a very good thing.
by JBen on Jul 3, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
JBEN...
I'm starting to question the "Buyers Market" mentality.
I guess if the offer is from a team like one of the big guns.
I am also starting to wonder,if its any team but... mentality.
Our great saviour was supposed to be able to attract players to the great white north.
We are talking about the different tiers in the NBA in which we belong to the lower tier.
If Marion decides to bless us with his presence ,it will be done reluctingly,and he will pout...
If for argument sake,Delfino returns,and Parker for some reason does not go to Europe...how have we changed?
Take a good look at the East? I hope something happens today...something meaningful not a band aid.
by d279 on Jul 3, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
It may seem like the Raptors are mere spectators in this free-agent circus, but they're quietly active behind the scenes. The team has had exploratory talks with several free agents, though they have yet to offer a contract to anyone. Before Trevor Ariza agreed to a five-year, $33.5 million deal with Houston, the Raptors discussed a potential five-year deal worth more than $39 million with Ariza's agent, David Lee.
Toronto has had similar talks (for different amounts of money) with several other players, including Linas Kleiza, David Lee and Hedo Turkoglu. Several league execs believe Turkoglu prefers to play in Toronto (because of its international character) instead of Portland, but it's not clear whether the Raptors will make an offer.
By renouncing Shawn Marion, Anthony Parker and Carlos Delfino and waiving Quincy Douby, the Raptors could clear enough cap room to offer Turkoglu $56.5 million over five years. But that would force the Raptors to fill out their roster with minimum-salaried players, and they're worried about not having enough depth. So at present, they're leaning toward re-signing Marion and Delfino.
Once the Blazers make an offer to Turkoglu, the Raptors will decide whether to try and outbid them.
by EricCoach8 on Jul 3, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
That was from Broussard on ESPN..
Guess our fears are true.. Player A takes less money not to play in Toronto.. Sorta breaks my heart.. David Lee? Trade Bosh??
For all of BC's "activity" I hope we just dont end up with delfino and marion.. THAT DOESNT MAKE US BETTER
by EricCoach8 on Jul 3, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
MOVEMENT CONTINUES
* Ken Berger of CBSSports.com was the first to report the Artest-to-L.A. story, and is now saying Toronto is making a strong push for Hedo Turkoglu. The free agent forward met with Portland on Thursday and "Portland is offering a five-year deal for approximately $50 million," according to Berger. But, he added, Toronto is "believed to be the preferred destination of Turkoglu's wife," and could beat the Trail Blazers' offer "by about $800,000." A lot of that depends on what the Raptors do with their own free agents, Berger wrote.
* As for Turkoglu's old team, Musselman praised Orlando general manager Otis Smith for making the trade for Vince Carter earlier this month. "Masterful," Musselman said. "Otis Smith is a master of accepting reality and then making a move on it quickly. When Jameer Nelson got injured, (Smith) made a trade for Rafer Alston right away. And then re-signing Turkuglo seemed like it would be difficult at best. So Otis made the trade for Carter to make the best of the situation. When you consider his moves, Otis should be praised much more than he is."
* Meanwhile, Cleveland spent the day holding a press conference for Shaquille O'Neal and, according to sources, offering the Raptors a sign-and-trade for free agent guard Anthony Parker.
* Initially, the Cavs were said not to be interested in Shawn Marion, another Raptors free agent who might meet their needs. But the two sides have reportedly spoken in recent days.
by EricCoach8 on Jul 3, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Hello. History teaches us that men and nations behave wisely once they have exhausted all other alternatives.
I am from Macedonia and now study English, give true I wrote the following sentence: "Many consumers benefit from the convenience and privacy of this new option."
THX :-(, Bernice.
by Bernice on Aug 23, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
Badly need your help. A little government and a little luck are necessary in life, but only a fool trusts either of them.
I am from Andorra and now study English, give true I wrote the following sentence: "Act sales force, is he behind it back or is he a protection to all product."
Thanks for the help :-(, Saloman.
by Saloman on Sep 2, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions
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