Pre-Draft Workouts for Friday, June 05, 2009

by RaptorsHQ - Archives on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT in NBA Draft

Welcome to TO Mr. Flynn...

After a few weeks of speculation and rumour, the Toronto Raptors are getting back to business this morning by bringing in a few more players for workouts. While it wasn’t quite the class we were expecting, as you’ll see, there are still a number of very intriguing names for Raptors fans.

It looks like BC and co. structured this run this morning to have a big, a wing and a potential point guard option ready to go 3 on 3, which hopefully should make for some good viewing this morning.

Without any more delay then, let’s take a look at each of the six players who are scheduled to participate later this morning in evaluations:

JONNY FLYNN

Who is he? 6-0 Sophomore Point Guard from Syracuse.

Breakdown Flynn might be the biggest name of the group, and he’s a player who’s only helped his stock recently based on both his combine results, and his on-court play in workouts. Most know about his illustrious college career, and the leadership he displayed in the Big East and NCAA tournaments, not to mention the historic six-overtime game against UCONN that he dominated.

But what I really like about Flynn is that he seems to be the perfect fit for the new-style NBA – ie speedy point guards who can attack off the bounce and get to the rim at will. He’s extremely quick, ridiculously athletic, and can get anywhere he wants to on the court. Yes, he needs to work on his jumper, but while it can be shaky at times, he’s no Rajon Rondo. He also passed the six-foot test in measurements so appears to be somewhat in the Chris Paul mould, again, hardly a bad thing.

The question though is, does it make sense for Toronto to take a point guard at nine? I’m not sure you can really answer that question until you see where the chips start to fall on draft day, but I have this nagging sensation that he’s going to be a very solid NBA player, and possibly the best option on the board if players like Evans, Harden and DeRozan go early. Regardless of the Roko situation, I’d love to see him in a Raptors’ uniform as I think he provides the exact counterpunch to Jose Calderon. Yes he will struggle at times to defend bigger guards, but the same could be said about Aaron Brooks and others who’ve recently found a great amount of success in the league.

JRUE HOLIDAY

Who is he? 6-3 Freshman guard from UCLA.

Breakdown We’ve talked a lot about Holiday lately to the point that I recently dedicated an entire blog post to his impact on the draft.

Like another UCLA alum last year, Holiday is probably the hottest name in the draft, rising on most mock boards from late first round to possibly a top 5 pick in the span of about the last 3 weeks. Perhaps that tells you more about the mock draft process than anything else but in any event, after being less than impressed with his freshman season, I’m very curious to get a good look at him up close in workout settings.

-Can he play the 1?

-Is he a good enough shooter and does he have enough size to play the 2?

These are all big questions surrounding Jrue the Damaja right now and from a Raptors’ standpoint, where does he fit? Could Toronto be looking at him as the perfect combo-guard option; a player who score at the 2 and still at times lead the team at the 1?

It’s an interesting dilemma.

I’m not sure how much this morning’s workouts will go towards making me feel at ease about Holiday’s pro potential, but in any event, I’m looking forward to the match-up between him and Flynn which pits Holiday’s size and all-around abilities against Flynn’s quickness and athleticism.

CHASE BUDINGER

Who is he? 6-7 Junior Forward from Arizona.

Breakdown Chase is a player who we’ve had on our radar for almost three years now at the HQ. Based on his size, hops (one of the best leapers in this draft), and ability to put the ball on the floor and drain the 3, he looked to be a lottery pick as a freshman. Budinger though opted to return for his sophomore year however and if anything, this probably hurt his stock as scouts and GM’s began to pick apart his game. There were many whispers that despite his ability to soar to the rim, he was soft and shied away from contact a lot, opting to rely on his increasing efficient long-range shooting.

Therefore Budinger returned to Arizona for his junior year and while he had his best college season yet, the same questions still remain.

I actually think this is a player however who is underrated. Having watched Budinger almost a dozen times over his college career, I never saw him as a player who lacked aggression or was soft. He did tend to disappear sometimes but in his junior season he was a lot more consistent from game-to-game. He’s actually got one of the best skill-sets in the draft right now, much better than DeRozan or even Evans as Budinger is a better shooter. And while I wouldn’t be grabbing him at 9 if I was the Raptors, he, much like Terrence Williams, is a player that would be very interesting to grab later in the first round.

ALADE AMINU

Who is he? 6-10 Senior Forward from Georgia Tech.

Breakdown I spent most of the season raving about Aminu’s younger brother at Wake Forest, Al-Farouq Aminu however Alade is no slouch. Unfortunately he spent a good chunk of his college career on the bench before really showing his potential last year for Paul Hewitt’s club.

At first glance, Aminu looks like the proverbial 3-4 NBAer. He’s 6-10, extremely long, and is very athletic. However having watched him through the years in ACC action, you know he’s still quite raw.

However as we’ve seen time and time again, that’s part of Aminu’s allure. With his raw physical tools, there’s definitely a number of GM’s out there wondering if given time, they could turn him into a very competent rotation player and as he’s been flying under the radar a bit and appears to be a late bloomer. In fact he made Portsmouth’s All-First Team and looked like an almost completely different player than the one who struggled on underachieving Yellow Jacket clubs.

While Aminu has compared himself to Denver’s "Birdman," ironically, the player he reminds me a lot of is Pops-Mensah Bonsu. Both have very similar physiques (although Pops has bulked up since college) and games, using their physical abilities to compensate for limited offensive tool kits. He won’t be on Toronto’s map at 9, but he could very well make an interesting late first-round or early second-round selection.

DAMION JAMES

Who is he? 6-7 Junior Forward from Texas.

Breakdown James is a bit of an enigma.

He’s got size to play the 3, but doesn’t do much slashing, nor does he compensate by being a killer outside shooter.

As a result, it’s hard to know what to make of him in terms of projecting NBA potential. Some have looked at Luc Richard Mbah a Moute for comparison considering both are excellent defenders who play with grit on each possession, however I’m not sure James has the same raw athletic ability as Prince Luc.

That’s why today it will be interesting to see how he plays against the more athletic and mobile Budinger. If James’ bread and butter in the league is going to be on the defensive end, he will be facing some solid challenges individually today from players like Budinger and Flynn.

I’m not sure there’s much here from a Raptors’ standpoint however that’s not to say I don’t expect him to be drafted. I think some team will fall in love with his intensity and size and grab him in the second round.

GORAN SUTON

Who is he? 6-10 Senior Center from Michigan State.

Breakdown Most folks didn’t know Suton from Martin Iti four months ago however his play in Michigan State’s NCAA tourney run opened some eyes.

With his ability to hit the long-range shot, something obviously en-vogue currently in the L, suddenly Suton was a draft option after years of being viewed as simply another immobile pivot who put up solid college numbers but who had little in terms of pro potential.

The fact is that Suton has been one of the most consistent forces in college ball the past four years. He’s not the most athletic player to come out of the NCAA system, nor does he have many of the intangibles of even a Tyler Hansbrough, but he has a nice all-around game in terms of rebounding, scoring and toughness. He’s got a great basketball IQ, has continuously improved his game, and at worst looks to have a long pro-career in Europe ahead of him.

However of all the players on this list, I’d say that Suton is the least likely to find himself in a Raptors uniform next year.

The Dinos simply don’t need much of what he brings to the table at present so this one appears to be a bit more of a formality than anything else. In fact if I’m comparing Aminu to Pops, I’d use Uros Slokar as a good point of reference for Suton, with Slokar in my opinion, being the more talented of the two.

FRANCHISE

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Comments

I for one am not opposed to looking at PG's in this draft. Johnny Flynn's polished PG skills (apart from outside shooting) make him a great option if he's on the board.

Also I keep hearing people say "regardless of Roko"... but I think that might be an oversight of a much better option going forward. Roko's height, slashing ability and defensive speed make him an interesting possibility as a backup SG.

With the possibility that Joey and Parker not being around next year, this would provide the raps with a decent 2nd option off the bench and a PG in desperate situations.

That would make a backup role for a polished drive and kick PG like Flynn a very interesting option.

I'm still holding out hope that Tyreke slips down to 9, but I'm quite certain that's a pipe dream.

Can't wait to hear about how the 3 on 3 went Franchise!

by mcclarky on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Point Guard, Swingman, Big? Best. Just take the best player available. You can trade quality, you can develop it, you can move the position player in front of them to fill a more glaring need.You can't do much with crap. If Flynn is the best, grab him. I love Roko, but his future is to be a one-two, rather than just a one. He works and will be good. If we have Roko and Flynn developing well, maybe we end up moving Jose (my favourite player) down the line for a stud at another spot. You can do things with quality. You can make crap with crap.Araujo anyone?

by EaseMyPain on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Oh... forgot to ask... can someone explain the NBA free agency to me?

I see a lot of interesting names that seem to be free agents this year that I'm wondering what the issues/restrictions are for signing. Is it simply up to the players to choose? Or do their current teams have any restricted rights to them?

Here are some of the names that are looking interesting...

BARNES
MILLSAP
JR SMITH
ARIZA
ODOM
PACHULIA
SESSIONS
POWE
GORDON

Other than money issues and lack of desire to play on a work in progress team like the raps, are there any other hurdles? (yea yea... like money and work in progress aren't hard enough to deal with for the Raps...lol)

by mcclarky on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Smith is reporting that the Raps had a done deal with Golden State that would have sent Joey G to GS for Marco B... but then GS bailed on the deal!

It seemed too good to be true... but it is GS... so close... yet so far.

by lessthanzero on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

We’ll have a full recap tomorrow but a few points from today’s workout.

1) Hard not to fall in love with Jonny Flynn in person. Super charismatic, very vocal, extremely aggressive on offence and defense, and as you’ll read tomorrow, "basically considers himself a Canadian already."
2) Think the Raptors are thinking long and hard about Jrue Holiday. He showed in 3 on 3 drills today just why he’s got great NBA potential, especially on the defensive end. I’m still not sold, but I’m starting to think that I shouldn’t be surprised if I hear his name called at 9.
3) The best player in the workouts was actually Suton. He simply didn’t miss from basically anywhere on the court. He looks to be in great shape too. Again though, just not sure how he fits this current Raptor team’s needs unless he’s a pick-and-pop option as Howland noted today.
4) Weird seeing Iavaroni patrolling the gym and getting involved in the workouts. However I really like the hire in terms of big man development and defense. He was a prominent figure at the Pete Newell camps for years.
5) Post-workout Colangelo mentioned that they were looking to get two more workouts in; one probably next Wednesday and then one other the following week to try and grab anyone they couldn’t get next week. My guess is that they’d still like to get Evans, DeRozan, Curry and Blair in for a look.

by Franchise on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

The only way I would want to see Roko play the 2 is if he learns to shoot. If it doesn't improve from last year... then no way. SG NEED to be able to shoot. If not they give them room and any slashing ability they had becomes moot.

But as Easemypain said... take the best player available. If that means a PG then so be it. Its not like we can't use help at numerous positions.

by Swirskys Soldier on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Great post. Can't wait to read the recap tomorrow.

I had mentioned in a previous post, but one of the names that came up in the GM meet and greet I attended was Flynn.

I think addtion a player with his skill set and presence on the flor would be a huge benefit. And as we've discovered the PG position needs depth as much as anywhere else we need.

Him "thinking of himself as a Canadian" can only lead me to believe he may end up being a great fit. Problem is from some of the mock drafts I'm reading (Chad Ford), it looks like he might not be around.

by jas on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Wow, that "already considers himself Canadian" comment regarding Flynn makes me wonder what it would be like to have a good player who actually likes to be in Canada.

In any case, is there going to be anything coming out regarding Bosh's refusal to consider an extension this summer?

Does anyone here really buy that BC is going to sit tight and allow Bosh to opt out and risk losing him for nothing if he gets wooed by D Wade or LeBron?

How about Bosh to the Clippers for Camby + #1 pick (and filler to make salaries match)????
Dunleavy is stil running the show over here and it's the Clippers so we might be able to get a bidding war going between them and the Warriors........not likely, but it is GSW and LAC the two most dysfunctional franchises in the league.

Rob

by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Rob, i think one of the problems the raps will encounter trying to move Bosh this summer is; he's already declined to sign and extension, so basically he become a rent a player anywhere he goes. Especially if it's another dysfunctional team.

Maybe if he's moved to a team that's competitive like Dallas?

Regardless, as a result, I'm of the opinion that they won't get back a true value for him.

I think we're just going to have to wait to do a sign and trade next summer if Bosh decides he wants out.

by jas on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I think you're absolutely right about the rent-a-player aspect of any deal. That's why he either has to be moved to a big market team which will give him exposure for his off-court "stuff", a team with another star he could be paired with or a dysfunctional/delusional team like GSW who has a colossal hard on for Bosh and is ingorant of the rental aspect.

One thing though, I think the reason you have to move Bosh is because he thinks he is a max player, not because he may walk. If BC gives him a max deal, it will handcuff this team financially because they don't want to pay the tax. Bosh isn't worth MAX dollars because he is neither a dominant inside force a la Dwight, nor a premier SG/SF that can put the team on his back at the end of games.

"Full Value" depends on how you define this team's needs in my opinion. If we can get a good young SF/SG, a pick, cash and a serviceable veteran I think it would put the Raptors further along in their quest to win a championship than signing Bosh to a max deal, giving Marion 8 mil per and going forward with that.

Rob

by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I think the "not worth the max" thread of discussions with regards to Bosh have to stop for a while. Honestly, a majority of people would take the maximum amount of money their job offered them if circumstances were a wash. He considers himself worth the max and if he's willing to prove it the team (assuming he's on it) will benefit, regardless of how we've labeled him thus far. Maximizing ones earnings is the privilege he is afforded in a capitalist system. Maintaining his current lifestyle beyond his playing days and accommodating the requirements of family while maintaining that lifestyle is a reasonable aspiration.

Also, Bosh is currently earning the maximum available to him and of all the money maximized players this organization has paid over the years, is not Bosh the most productive?

Going forward seems kind of presumptuous of any of us to simply dismiss the possibility that the team will choose to go into the luxury tax for a little while. The economy being as tight as it is, the team must compel its base of season ticket buyers to renew. If that means spending into luxury tax to field the most competitive team possible than so be it. Existing in that luxury tax stratosphere is actually the price many deep run playoff teams pay and if a deep run is what's required to make this a viable entertainment option for people whose resources are increasingly scarce then the luxury tax would have to be fair game.

by Interloper on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

That is a pretty narrow view of the capitalist system. Bosh has the right to want a max deal, but that in no way obliges the Raps to give him one. It is my view, along with many others, that he is not worth it. I think LA's second Raps Fan's idea might be money better spent. Definitely more reasonable than expecting a coordinated effort by fans to raise revenues so MLSE will go over the cap.

by Robert Archibald on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I'm thinking that BC is playing this well. If he shops Bosh around openly, he'll get a Vince Carter type of return. His best time for getting value for Bosh is next summer at sign and trade time. If he blows out a knee, they just take the cap space, which they hopefully will spend wisely or not at all (like, no Corey Maggette deals).
If someone like Chicago wants to take a shot at Bosh, and go in signing him with a promise to go after someone else big next year. Derrick Rose is not a bad start for Chris. Either way, any team who wants to get Bosh knows that they will have to go in hard to get him. If not, BC still has control of the cards right up until next summer when he still has the strength of giving Bosh his max contract and trading him. To go back to Carter, Babcock was in a weak postion that only got weaker as he went along and Carter sucked out more. Bosh will not be in that position unless he signs a max deal and stays and the Raps suck in 2011. BC is playing it strong.
2nd Rap Fan has a wishful idea about trading for the 1st pick and Griffin/Camby. I'd do it; BC wouldn't and neither would the Clips who would think that they could sign Bosh next year anyway. But it sounds good to me. I'd rather have Kamen. That would give us a front court of Bargnani, Griffin, and Camby/Kamen, which will result in one person whining about playing time.

by EaseMyPain on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Interloper, I think you missed the point. I wasn't making one of those rants against athletes making millions. I was saying that Mr. Bosh is not worth the amount of money he is asking for; it has nothing to do with capitalism in the strict sense and everything to do with building a competitive basketball team. If you want to have a discourse on economics, I'm not sure that this would be the appropriate forum.

EasemyPain, do you follow basketball/NBA???

You mention that Bosh for 1st pick/Camby is wishful, but mention Chicago trading their cornerstone for Bosh. Then you mention that the Clips can SIGN Bosh anyway.......have you heard of the salary cap in the NBA?

You seem like a passionate Raps fan, but you are waaaay out there champ.

Rob

by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Clarification: Bosh can attempt to maximize his earnings, that was the privilege I was alluding to. In no way did I suggest it was his right to receive it from the Raptors. If those maximized earnings come from another team then so be it. I don't think anybody would be so concerned with whose earning what if this team was competitive for one of the top seeds in the conference. It's too bad we've been discussing salary distribution for so long. Even if the team were going to use the money on players other than Bosh, I think the possibility of luxury tax spending for the right mix can't be dismissed, if that luxury tax spending took place for a year or two.

by Interloper on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Interloper, paying the luxury tax can be dismissed because Raptor management has made it clear that it will not go past the luxury tax threshold; so unless you're speaking for Richard Peddie himself that idea can indeed be dismissed.

Rob

by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jun 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions