Free Agency 2009

by RaptorsHQ - Archives on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT in General

Wait...was this Transformers II, or "Be All You Can Be - the Extended Version?"

This morning, I got up early to complete the following article on Free Agency, and in particular, evaluating the options for the Toronto Raptors.

Unfortunately last night I saw Transformers II, possibly the worst movie I’ve ever sat through in a theatre, and I feel obligated to start this piece with a mini rant…

…WHAT THE HELL WERE MICHAEL BAY AND STEVEN SPIELBERG THINKING???

For any of you who have not seen this $200 Million piece of garbage, I urge you not to.

Howland and I went last night at by the time one of the little robots who swore and spoke in slang was humping Megan Fox’s leg, we were about to walk out.

Yes, it’s that bad.

The plot jumps all over the place and makes no sense at times, many of the characters are not only needless and annoying, but a few are essentially racist, you can’t even tell which robots are which half of the time, and I’m not even going to get into the over-the-top sexual references.

This is not a kid’s movie and it was slightly awkward to sit in a theatre with seven-year-olds asking their parents why robots were acting like beings who fed off Viagra, not Energon.

And the worst part is that MAYBE I could have forgiven the studio’s lame attempts at targeting certain demographics, but the action wasn’t even that great! Devastator was reduced to essentially a giant vacuum and didn’t seem powerful in the least, and by the end of the movie, I was wondering if I was watching Transformers, or a glorified extra-long US Army commercial.

Look, the premise is simple - robots in disguise fighting other robots in disguise. Why the need to have kids going to Playboy U and mothers eating hemp brownies??

I feel like one of Dwight Howard’s imitations of Stan Van Gundy…

Nevertheless, I saw online that the movie has grossed an absurd amount of money considering its on-screen performance.

Aaah…much like Hedo Turkoglu after tomorrow’s start to NBA Free-Agent Frenzy!

And will the Raptors be the ones making like the audience for Transformers 2, duped into overpaying based on the prequel (or the NBA playoffs in Hedo’s case?)

We’ll probably find out over the next few days. But regardless of Hedo’s worth, something we’ll discuss in a bit, by all accounts, as of this morning, the Toronto Raptors’ roster looks like this:

PG: Jose Calderon
SG:
SF:
PF: Chris Bosh
C: Andrea Bargnani

Bench 1: DeMar DeRozan
Bench 2: Roko Ukic
Bench 3: Reggie Evans
Bench 4: Kris Humphries
Bench 5: Quincy Douby
Bench 6: Patrick O’Bryant
Bench 7: Nathan Jawai

DNP: Marcus Banks

That doesn’t exactly look like an Eastern Conference contender does it?

As we discussed before and after the draft, the real meat of the 2009-10 Toronto Raptors will need to be filled-out via free-agency.

There are plenty of options out there, but as you can see from the above, the Raps have some very specific starting needs, ones that they’ll need to address if they want to be a competitive club next year.

So let’s start there and look at the options at the swingman spots.

Personally, I’d prefer if Shawn Marion was the starting 3 next year.

Looking at ESPN.com’s group of unrestricted free-agents next year, there aren’t many other options.

Yes, some will say Hedo, which we’ll get to in a minute, but considering what the Raptors are trying to build and the style they want to play, in my opinion there isn’t a better option out there...

...provided the price is right.

What is the right price?

Well ideally if you could convince Marion to sign for just above the mid-level, you’d be jumping for joy. I’d even be willing to go up to around $8 Million to retain his services but above that, no thanks.

It’s a tricky situation for Raptors’ management because Marion provided intangibles towards the end of last season that this team hadn’t seen in years. He was efficient offensively (except his put-backs around the rim which could use some work), surprisingly controlled in his shot-selection, particularly from long-range, and was a monster on the glass.

It’s this last point in particular that I want to emphasize.

Considering that Toronto wants to get out on the break and run, I’m not sure how you can do without Marion. To be an effective fast-break team, you NEED to be able to consistently rebound the basketball. That’s how things start - missed shot leads to break-out leads to quick transition basket.

Who else on the ESPN list can do this?

I expect Ariza to be re-signed by the Lakers, and don’t think Toronto will take a chance on Artest, so outside of these two, it’s Marion or bust. Yes, Hedo is a solid rebounder, and players like Childress (should he return to the US) and Marvin Williams might help, but let’s not confuse any with The Matrix.

Looking at the league’s financial landscape right now, the Raps appear to have the best chance at keeping Marion. The only teams with significant money to spend outside of the Dinos include the Pistons, Grizzlies, Thunder, Blazers, Kings and Hawks.

Of those, perhaps the Pistons make some sense once Rasheed Wallace is gone, and maybe the Blazers or Kings look to make a push. However it sounds like the Blazers are much more interested in Mr. Turkoglu, and would Marion really rather play for Sacramento then Toronto?

The other clubs either don’t seem to be a great fit, or involve teams who aren’t likely to open the coffers this summer.

And what about Hedo the great?

For all of the venom I’ve spewed against the former King, I want to say that I wouldn’t shut down RaptorsHQ and follow another team should he be signed. I do think he’s a talented player, and would clearly be an upgrade over most of the "talent" that the Raptors were saddled with last year.

However much like Marion, this all depends on how much the Raps are willing to pay him, and considering he just opted out of a fairly decent deal, it sounds like he expects to be paid, pretty much the entire amount of Toronto’s remaining cap room, let’s say about $10 Million.

No thanks.

So if Marion can’t be retained, and Toronto can’t/won’t afford to pay Hedo, what’s left?
I’m going to discount certain names like the Birdman (I can’t see Denver letting him go) and Allen Iverson (really??)

But does the team take a flyer on Ben Gordon?

Make a run at Anderson Varejao or David Lee?

Take a close look at players like Al Harrington and Marvin Williams?

The salary cap is estimated to sit at around $58.7 Million this year, essentially the same as last, so there isn’t a lot of wiggle room. Yes, Bryan Colangelo is quoting a $21 Million dollar breathing room number, the difference between the expected luxury tax threshold and the current pay-roll (if the Raptors renounce the rights to all their free-agent players etc), but that’s a bit of an illusion. If Toronto wants to keep Marion and a few other players, after all is said and done they’ll likely only have about the mid-level exception to work with.

Therefore it’s going to be very interesting to see how this tug of war unfolds.

In the past, players held the power in many of these off-season negotiations and over-paying for mediocre talent was almost expected.

This year could be quite different however as a) there aren’t many teams that have money to spend and b) even those teams that do have room to spend won’t be spending as much because of the economy.

So the likes Carlos Boozer and Ben Gordon, players who at one point believed they were in for big raises this summer, might be having second thoughts.

The same is true for Lamar Odom, a player who LA might not retain and who outside of Marion and Hedo, might be a good option to fill Toronto’s starting small-forward spot at the right price.

This financial crunch of course could benefit the Raptors.

Suddenly, under-the-radar players could be had at discount prices and to that end, RaptorsHQ takes a look at 10 such players:

1. Grant Hill – I don’t believe he’ll leave Phoenix but this is someone who would be a great addition to the Raptors. He could start or come off the bench, play a few positions on the court, and would be a great replacement for Anthony Parker in terms of locker-room presence and professionalism.

2. Leon Powe – The Celtics are strapped for cash and need to keep Powe and Big Baby Davis. I’m not sure they’ll do both, and while Powe is a bit of an injury risk, he’d look great off the bench behind Bosh.

3. Chris Wilcox – The Raptors seem to have plenty of bigs right now, but that’s if you believe that Hump and Pops will still be around for training camp, and that Jawai or O’Bryant will ever get off the bench (although the Raptors did extend a qualifying offer to Pops yesterday.) I’m not convinced of either situation and Wilcox is an athletic and aggressive 4-5, who looks like a great fit in the offense Toronto is trying to run.

4. Rodney Carney – Carney has been pretty much a bust since he left college but did show some flashes last year. He probably could be had for cheap, and considering the Raptors’ needs at the 2-3 in terms of athleticism, might be an interesting option.

5. Linas Kleiza – If Denver is going to keep Jones and The Birdman, Kleiza will be on his own. Toronto has made a play for his services in the past and he would provide the toughness and all-around game off the bench that Toronto needs.

6. Marquis Daniels – One of our commentors mentioned that they expect to see BC over-pay for Daniels next year. I hope that isn’t the case, but in terms of a scoring 7th man off the bench, he might be one of the best options out there.

7. Sean May – Like Williams, May has been a bust so far in the league as well. However there’s no denying his talent and if he could get his weight under control, might be a huge low-post boost off the bench for a team. Could that be the Raptors?

8. Von Wafer – Wafer has been a favourite of mine for two season now and while he’s a bit hot-headed, I’m not sure Toronto couldn’t use a bit of that. He’s one of the best off the bench at getting to the rim as well, something TO desperately needs.

Franchise would love to see Wafer doing this sort of thing off the Raps bench next year...

9. Ime Udoka – We’ve talked a lot about offence in terms of filling out roster spots, but what about the D. Udoka could do that in spades and might look great at the 2 to help out Jose in a Dahntay Jones type role.

10. Matt Barnes – Similar to Udoka, Barnes can play some aggressive D but can also score and get to the hoop. He excels in the up-tempo style Toronto is looking to play and his time in Phoenix might be over.

FRANCHISE

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Comments

A lot's been made by a lot of readers yesterday about our team and current situation. The one thing I wanted to bring up about what Colangelo does from here is whether everyone really believes that we're rehashing old mistakes, or trying to forge new territory. With Calderon, Bosh, and Bargnani locked in, there's only so much change that this team can undergo. They're suited to a certain style.

So my question is this: Is Colangelo trying to recapture the magic of the 2006-2007 year, or is he trying to tweak the identity to include a different look?

Right now, I'm not too sure. If Delfino and Nesterovic are coming back, I think Colangelo may very well be trying to get back to that magical year.

by Vicious D on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Isn't Nate Robinson RFA? Kyrptonate would give us dribble penentration and instant, instant offense off the bench. Sure hes tiny and quick tempered but this team

Caldy/Nate/AP
Derozan/Delfino/AP
Marion/Fino/?
Bosh/Evans/Pops?
Bargs/Rasho/POB

Thats a pretty good darn team, can play D, rebound, and score 110 a game.

by Dikweed on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Great FA summary Franchise. You've hit virtually all the names I expected and like. But let's look at the truth of the situation. Marion will be retained by BC. He said it's his priority and I agree... no other FA can give this team what it needs more at SF than Marion.

The other names I fully expect to see on the roster this year are Matt Barnes (great multi positioned hard nosed role player) and Rasho (as the MLE I think).

This still leaves a gaping hole at starting SG and I really have no idea how BC plans to fill that other than throwing the rook right into the fire.

So this is where the fun comes in.... let's see just how crafty BC is at landing a SG!! Can't wait!... wont be able to sleep tonight!

Question: Is there some sort of a moratorium on announcing FA signings? I thought I heard something about July 7th on the FAN590 yesterday. Can you shed some light on that?

by mcclarky on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Good Work as usual Franchise. I'm not sure why you bothered to list PFs (Wilcox, Powe, May) since we seem set at that position. The rest of that list makes me sad to be a Raptor fan and really only looking forward to next season purely for the sake of my love for basketball.

From your list I'd welcome in order:
1)Hill (locker room leadership)

2)Wafer (provides what we lack i.e slashing)

3)Barnes (overrated but tough as nails)

4)Daniels (if all else fails)

We are in trouble if we don't keep Marion and find an "impact" SG. I don't feel warm and fuzzy abt where things are heading.

by Member29 on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Easy! I didn't think Transformers was that bad. If you're expecting a plot and developed story from kids' shows like Transformers and GI Joe then you're mental. It was entertaining and good action scenes. Come on man.

by Ryan on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

...and...look at all the sexual references in any disney/pixar movie. They're kids movies.

Raps should sign Rasheed and McCants.

by Ryan on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Just two cents on Transformers 2. It was almost as bad as the latest CrapIana Jones film. They easily could have cut out an hour of garbage and the film still would have been long enough. Megatron didn't transform ONCE, it was a bunch of no-name transformers (who didn't transform), a transformer with a cane(?) who apparently is 15,000 years old but is a STEALTH BOMBER (yeah I hear they were used a lot in the caveman years)and a transformer who was really a terminator. It was horrible.

Two quick thoughts on FA - The first is toughness. Although BC has added Evans this still doesn't mean this team is tough. In fact, it is still very soft. BC still needs to add a guy on the perimeter who craves contact. Same principle applies to the swingman position and this teams need for more athletic wings. Adding DD doesn't mean the team now has enough athleticism. Evans and DD are nice additions but they don't cure all that ails this roster.

by HOWLAND on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Mark me down as another Transformers II hater. I watched it via bootleg but had to shut it off it was so bad. Not even Megan Foxxx or her evil twin could save that thing.

On the Raps, what about Villanueva? Would he be content to come off the bench as a 3-4 option?

by lurker on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Mcclarky, if you heard it on the fan, it most likely refers to hockey. They didn’t even talk about bball on the night of the draft.

There is a restriction where deals can not be announced until the 7th I believe, but that just applies to GMs. So what it means is that you won’t get the press conferences until after that date but the agents will leak it out as soon as its done.

Franchise, the alternative to Marion would not be in the free agent pool. With a sign and trade you could target anyone.

by Zona on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

If we are going to spend 8 mil. a year on marion. Let's sign Ariza! He is only 24!!! Ariza and DD would be great wings to rebuild with.. Add Bargs and hopefully whatever we get for Bosh, now we are rolling

by EricCoach8 on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Thanks Zona. I thought it might be hockey but I wasn't sure.

Interesting developments with the apparent interest in Roko from overseas. Is there any chance Roko would bolt for a chance to start over there?

Also, Channing Frye's option was NOT picked up by Portland. Could he now be on BC's radar as the backup C? This might be an intriguing alternative to Rasho.

by mcclarky on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

The Raps need 2 players out of this free agent market. One will be Shawn Marion and if the Raps really wants to be a contender in the East next season then they should go after ALLAN IVERSON..even if we have to pay into the luxury tax. How much do you think AI is worth. I know he was making 22 mil last year but he should be a lot less in is next contract I was thinking about 10mil per. Can Raps afford to sign Matrix and AI a question for you HQ

by RAPS4LIFE on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Raps4life -

Allen Iverson would be a terrible fit here. He dominates the ball (reducing JC's effectiveness) is not a good defender at the two and should only play for an established coach. I can see him in Charlotte. There's no way he ends up here.

by HOWLAND on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

RAPS4LIFE , No thanks to A.I., he's a great player but not a winner and at his age he has nothing to contribute to a team like the Raps who are so far off from contending.

EricCoach8, If signing Ariza was as easy as 1,2,3, he would be signed July 1st at 00:01; no way he agrees to play here over L.A. or another contender but I don’t blame you for wishing; I wish the same thing.

Ryan, I agree abt Mc Cants, he is undersized and inconsistent but he’s also aggressive, tough and likes to get to the rim. He won’t be that "go to" wing that we need but a solid contributor off the bench.

by Member29 on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

If we have the option of overpaying anyone, I rather that person be Linas Kleiza. This is a guy who can hit his shots, drive to the basket AND rebound. I think he’d be as good of a fit as Shawn Marion or Turkoglu at half the price.

Von Wafer is also a nice piece to add to this team coming off the bench.

Now what troubles me is seeing Chris Wilcox available and knowing that we still have Kris Humphries on our bench and BC bringing in Evans in return for Kapono. The shtick they are trying to feed fans is that Evans adds toughness to the team, but he needs to be on the floor to add toughness. He can’t be tough on the bench. Evans doesn’t jump out of the arena, doesn’t have a very good shot and he’s not that fast either. I don’t see how he can fit in this run and gun system they are trying to implement. It just doesn’t make sense. They could’ve waited longer to get something better for Kapono.

by Childlike on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Players go for the cash. They want $ and security. The players who take less $ are veterans looking for a ring.. Not 24yr old, blossoming SFs who already have a ring. That "guy" wants to get paid.. Security and providing a lifestyle are the number 1 goal of an NBA player. Plus he already told LA (through his agent) that he wont give LA a hometown discount... If we give him a significant amount above the MLE, if would be hard to pass up..

Give 3 mil. to Wafer and the MLE to a backup C

JC/Roko
DD/Wafer
Ariza/
Bosh/Evans/Pops
Bargs/FA/PO

Dump Hump and Jawai.. Waste of space.. Banks well I dont see us getting rid of him..

Now imagine we sign Ariza and trade Bosh to GS

Bosh and anyone else besides DD, JC and Bargs for

Biedrins
Randolph
Azubuike

PG- JC/Roko
SG- Azibuke/DD
SF- Ariza/Randolph
PF- Bargs/Evans/Pops
C- Biedrins/Turiaf

by EricCoach8 on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Agree - no to AI.

I like Hedu a lot, but would pay more for Marion. And we just might have to overpay for him.

Still not comfortable with our backup PG situation - but I think with a second year Ukic, and either Delfino or Parker we are more prepared than last year.

Fact is Rasho(an alltime favourite Rap) is two years older than last time he played for us. We cannot overpay for him.

We are not as soft as everyone thinks. Bosh is getting older and bigger, Bargnani shows a mean streak that will grow with his confidence, Calderon doesn't back down. Evans is another piece and Derozan doesn't appear to lack confidence.

Defense is still lacking. I don't expect Derozan to contribute much on that end. Resigning the Matrix helps. Losing him adds to my worries.

by Tinman on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I think we're all getting a little carried away with the thought of trading Bosh before the trade deadline.

The fact of the matter is you trade your assets when they're at the peak worth...no?

So why would BC trade his star player right now when at the deadline Bosh's value is gonna be maxed.

IMO it's just not gonna happen.

With all the rumours about Bosh and Bron Bron wanting to play together....and knowing that the object with bigger mass will tend to pull the other object towards it....maybe he gets a deal done with Cleveland at the deadline....who knows.

Bottom line.... don't expect anything other than the most obvious moves (sign Marion, sign a couple of low tier FAs)

by mcclarky on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

EricCoach8, I agree that most players probably think cash first, winning second but I still don’t see how the Raptors could offer Ariza more money than the Lakers for one thing, and secondly why would the Lakers let him walk? You really think the Lakers are going to let him leave? What are they gonna do keep Odom instead? Like I said, I’d love to see Ariza here but it isn’t realistic to think that he’d leave a good deal in L.A. or that the Lakers, who can offer him the best deal, will let him walk.

by Member29 on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I hope BC realizes that the calderon/bosh/bargs core is not nearly good enough. There has been some smoke regarding calderon's status.

Calderon +Filler for Baron Davis

Clipper get a guy who doesn't shoot much so Randolph/Griffin/Kaman/Thorton and Gordon get their shots.

While the Raptors get a player that can have the ball at the end of the game.

It would be a ballsy move, cuz if bosh leaves, it would stunt the rebuilding process.

by Sho on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I hope BC realizes that the calderon/bosh/bargs core is not nearly good enough. There has been some smoke regarding calderon's status.

Calderon +Filler for Baron Davis

Clipper get a guy who doesn't shoot much so Randolph/Griffin/Kaman/Thorton and Gordon get their shots.

While the Raptors get a player that can have the ball at the end of the game.

It would be a ballsy move, cuz if bosh leaves, it would stunt the rebuilding process.

by Sho on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

How can a Greek team make an offer to Rocko? isn't he under contract....

by d279 on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

The lakers have the fourth highest payroll... Well into the Tax. Obviously they will pay to keep him, the question is how much?? How much of the dollar for dollar penalty are they willing to pay? You make it sound like Odom is not an above average player. I think he was a key piece to the Lakers puzzle.. Both him and Ariza would be missed if they lost either..

ANother name.. Dahanty Jones
Reasonable contract.. tough.. GREAT defender..

by EricCoach8 on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Dhantay Jones
Linas kleiza

by EricCoach8 on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Okay... barring anything amazing happening... here is the lineup I am getting myself prepared for this season:

Calderon
Derozan
Marion
Bosh
Bargs

Ukic
Delfino
Barnes
Evans
Frye

Douby
Hump

Hopefully the lego master will make me weap with joy, but if not... I'm ready to get crackin with whomever is out there!!!

GO RAPS!!! Now, when does the season start?

by mcclarky on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Franchise:

Why No Love for Walter Herrmann!?!!?!

by JENGE on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

We need the birdman!

While I'm not a big fan of signing Hedo, it would be nice to have the Turkish Harry Connick Jr. (Definitely seperated at birth...)

"It Hed tobe YOOOOOU!
It Hed tobe YOOOOU!
I vundered aroond...."

by d on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

But seriously... I think TO has waited far too long to see the birdman fly!

Forget, Hedo and sign Andersen. I've got the jersey store ready to go on speed dial just in case...

by d on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Is Derozon a SG or SF? I keep seeing ppl projecting him to start at SG. Isn't he 6'8 with limited ball handling skills? That doesn't sound like an NBA starting SG, maybe a SF tho. I think he's too tall to play at SG without "handles" and at 19 he's only getting bigger. To me he seems like more of a SF.

Quick poll, what's DD gonna be, SG, SF or both?

by Member29 on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Not sure if this was answered, but deals can't be finalized and made official until July 7th, because thats when salary caps and luxury tax figures are set.

by dfp on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Grange is reporting that the Raps will offer Marion a 3 year $21 million dollar deal.

I gotta say I like those numbers.

by HOWLAND on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Thoughts,

1. Rasho - no more than the bi-annual exception. Whoever said MidLevel has no clue whatsoever.

2. Von Wafer at 3 yr, 9-11mil. Good price, and good addition.

3. Ime Udoka - should be cheap and would definitely help us.

4. Quinton Ross - exactly the type of no-cost addition that would actually help us.

5. Marquis Daniels - please no, unless he is playing for dirt cheap.

6. Matt Barnes - would help, but I wouldn't give him much $ or yrs.

7. Marion - 3 yr/ 21 mil would let me sleep at night, but 4 yrs or more and I'll lose my mind.

8. Charlie V. - might get signed for 4 yrs./ 24-27 mil., which I'd do.

9. Channing Frye - young and cheap, and with upside. What the hell happened to him after he started like a house on fire his first year.

by RaptorsAddict on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

WOW!
3 yrs 21mil?
I really really hope those numbers are for real.

by mcclarky on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I'm very concerned reading these posts regarding the players to bring to Toronto.

AI - he is a cancer. Plain and simple. See Detroit Pistons.

Wafer - does not know how to pass the ball.... and is not good enough to be that kind of player. If he actually believed others were playing with him I might change my tune... but he is a 1 on 5 kind of guy. (see above for results). I believe the quote was "I don't know whats going to happen when Von touches the ball. But I know whats not going to happen; he is NOT going to pass the ball" (I may be a bit off on the quote)

Barnes - torn on this guy... really liked him 2 years ago in GS... can't say I thought much of him last year in Phoenix.

Birdman - would love to see him here. Not sure it would happen... but if you offer him a few more mil than Denver would it may be possible. (still unlikely though)

Turkoglu - if he wasn't asking for so much I would jump on it. But I think he is out of what is a fair range. ($ and length)

Ariza - simply isn't going to happen. Even if it does you end up paying alot for a guy that has some left to prove. (not knocking him... love the D and some offensive ability)

Marion - I see it happening. And if its 3 yrs for 21 mil... book it!

Marvin Williams - would really like to see him here if possible.

Grant Hill - would be nice for cheap and off the bench.. although who knows... this guy is always making a come back of some sort.

Udoka - maybe if there is nothing left to grab (good defender though)

Kleiza/Daniels/May - no thanks. (why is May even on this list?)

Pops - why does nobody seem to see Pops coming back? Really? I guarantee right now that unless some other team offers Pops a silly contract we see him in T.O. next year (and getting minutes... 4th behind Bosh, AB, and Evans) He put more effort and energy in a few games than the whole team did for almost the entire season. He was great with the fans and earned their respect in 2 minutes on the court. (Pops = the new JYD... and if you don't like JYD I just don't know what to think). Jawai will likely be in D league or gone... I don't expect to see the Hump back. PO will take Voshkuls spot (unless he decides to try for once... and from what I understand that has never happened)

EricCoach8 - players of a high calibre make alot more money on endorsements than they do on contracts. Unfortunately you do not get those endorsements playing for Toronto. I would like to see the list of big (or reasonably big) named players Toronto signed from free agency (I'm not talking resigning here.) You'll find that the couple that exist were in the twighlight of their career looking for their last couple bucks. Those young guys you talk about want the glamour/lifestye/action etc of NY, Miami, LA, Phoenix and so on. They simply have no desire to be here (or Minny, Mil, etc).

by Swirskys Soldier on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

sorry that was so long....

by Swirskys Soldier on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Those young guys you talk about want the glamour/lifestye/action etc of NY, Miami, LA, Phoenix and so on.

So on is Toronto.. 5th largets market in N. America..Only team in Canada..That's a whole other market...Toronto is a thriving Metropolis..most diverse city.. Restaurants, night life.. theatre..bars..clubs... ewhatever a player's lifestyle may be.. Toronto has the same weather as NY...

The only argument is taxes..A Good accountant and things are little shinnier

Plus I know we would have to overpay.. But Ariza is worth it, not Kapono..

by EricCoach8 on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

EricCoach8, I agree with all the good things you listed abt Toronto, it's a great city but for basketball players, it's nothing compared to the prestige of LA,MIA,NYK etc. To the average Jo Toronto is one of the best cities in the world, to the young superstar basketball JO, Toronto is not th eplace to be.

No national coverage = no endorsements plus its cold, Canada cold. No way Ariza comes here no matter how much money you throw at him.

by Member29 on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Hey, don't expect any sympathy from me re Transformers. You paid money to see a Michael Bay movie - for shame.

Great breakdown of the free agency options. I think it's fair to say that this year's crop isn't going to turn the Raps into contenders. I'd like to see Marion back and, as you guys have stipulated, Hedo's going to demand more money than he's worth. Actually, you could say that about a few players. I'm a big Ben Gordon fan, but I'm not sure he's what this team needs and he's going to command a lot of scratch. Same with Odom and Boozer.

The Raps are better off looking at that second tier of players. Kleiza's an underrated player who can really shoot. Matt Barnes is a nice role player. And what about Charlie V? I don't know if he'd come back here as a big man off the bench, and he might cost too much. But he can score and rebound; defense is a different story, but you can't have everything. He really liked Toronto when he was here, and I think the trade to Milwaukee kind of shocked him. He's worth a look.

by Skywalker on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Member29 is absolutely right about Toronto and how it is perceived. The problem is that these ball players are American, and Americans don't really care much for things that aren't American. Living down here, has only driven that point further home; and I'm living in LA a multicultural/worldly city, so just imagine what it is like in other more rural places.

Toronto, and Canada is viewed as some sort of Arctic land where there are no t.v's. It's not the fault of ball players for being very much like the vast majority of people from their country: Ignorant of most things beyond their border.

Rob

PS-I hope people don't interpret this as me stereotyping Americans; I love the country, and most of the people I know (from law school and otherwise) are very open minded and knowledgeable about things that aren't American. However, the people we're talking about may have a little bit of a college education and are just looking to maximize their years playing ball; they perceive Toronto (Canada) as an impediment to their ultimate goal of making more money (taxes, endorsements, tv time) and so they prefer to look elsewhere for their next contract.

by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

2nd Raps fan, that's an interesting point about American players' perceptions about Canada. However, given that taxes are bound to go up in Obamaland at some point (especially for guys in their tax bracket), maybe Canada won't be viewed as such a bad choice after all.

Just saw that Okur and Boozer will be staying in Utah this season. Apparently, Cleveland is interested in Charlie V. So let's take all those guys off the board. Is Paul Millsap a realistic option? I have no idea what kind of money he can command, but he's a nice player and Utah may now be strapped for cash with the return of the aforementioned big men.

by Skywalker on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Charlie V is a good OFFENSIVE player, but lacks the all around game that the Raps need. As far as Marion goes, I think he should count himself lucky if he gets 3/21mil from T.O because most observers think he is done putting up 20/10 and view him as more of a mid-level type player in these economic times.

However, the two players which I think will be viewed as steals in the years to come will be Ariza and Kleiza. Ariza especially because he has now developed his outside shot and is very athletic (reminds me of T-Mac, his last year in T.O). With minutes, Ariza will put up some very good numbers; and I would love to see T.O nab him on a 6yr/48mil deal. Same thing with Kleiza, if the Raps can get him for the mid-level, that will definitely be a steal.

Should be an interesting July.

Rob

by 2nd Raps fan in LA on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

EricCoach8 - as the poster above has described.... we know how great of a city Toronto is but these players don't. Most people love the city after they spend a bit of time here... but its getting them to that point that is difficult. Its unfortunate... especially because any player who was willing to dedicate their time to T.O. would not only have a whole city behind them... they would have an entire country.

by Swirskys Soldier on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

A lot of posts here, so if anyone has gotten to this one:

KLEIZA IS THE GUY. He's tough, he can shoot, he's fearless going to the rim and he has more athleticism than your average Eastern European.

GO GET HIM!!! Forget Marion or Hedo, we don't need any more over-the-hill-injury-plagued-dumpsters.

by Original Aaron on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

While I enjoyed Rasho in his brief stay here, there is no reason to bring him back. He's well over the hill and really offers nothing of real value to the Raps.

I would really like to see Barnes in a Raptors jersey. His defence, basketball IQ and toughness would be invaluable.

by Sorael on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I don't get the whole Rasho thing. Last time he was here, the big complaint was that he couldn't play the type of game the raps want to play. How is it that anything has changed now that he's 2 years older?

by j on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I am hoping that BC is just playing like he does not want to deal Bosh in an effort to keep his value high, because I would be surprised if Bosh resigns. BC probably knows that Marion and other FAs are more likely to resign/sign if Bosh is in town and things seem stable. Hopefully, he gets Marion for the price being thrown around in the rumours lately, and then deals Bosh.

I like Pachulia and Kleiza as FAs.

by JBen on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

It's 12:01

by JENGE on Jun 30, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I`m down with re-signing Marion as a priority, with Kleiza and Von Wafer as 2nd tiers. Never really thought of Hill and he`s probably after a ring at this stage of his career (and income bracket) though his wife is from the area and very close with her family, so could be somewhat of an option and still an upgrade over Parker.

With Marion goes elswhere and Hedo`s price is too steep, with Yao going down, you would have to consider a package of Battier/Landry and possible 1st rounder for Bargs and Banks. Of course, we would then have to sign a Wilcox-type player, though wouldn`t break the bank.

by Acie on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I think that the Raps will use up all of their cap space to sign Marion, Delfino and DeRozan. Hopefully, they can add some young talent with the MLE and a useful vet with the LLE. I really want Pachulia. I would give him the full MLE.

by JBen on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

What's with all the love for Klieza? I see the few good things about his game, the same good things that earned him only spot minutes in Denver yet we're talking about making him a starter here? From spot minutes in Denver to starter in Toronto. Things are really bad with the Raps when.

Also, the dude is slow, out of shape and "unathletic", can we take a step back and realize how desperate things have gotten around here when we start salivating over Klieza. Give me a break.

by Member29 on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

According to doug smith, 4-5 teams kicking tires on a Marion sign and trade, Dallas and New Orleans mentioned. They both drafted late round PGss this year (Beaubois and Collision), both would be part of the required youth component of any deal. Beyond that, I'm not sure if there's anything worthwhile on either roster, especially since Marion's outgoing salary has to be traded by itself in a sign and trade. Keeping him at a reasonable cost (7mill) is ideal, and if we change our minds it will be easier to trade him after dec.15, with less restrictions. If we HAD to seek a trade, I'd look at a team like Sacramento, which can mix and match a few vets with some young talent they've picked recently.

by yardly on Jul 1, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions