Who’s On First – Final Raptors Draft Day Thoughts

As I've stated before, I have no idea why a franchise mired in a period of stagnation would waste their first 1st-round draft pick on a "safe" player. This makes absolutely no sense. If we get another mediocre player, where does it put us? Nowhere. Passing up DeRozan would be outright foolishness, as would picking another PG when we have had the worst 2/3 combination in the league literally since the second we traded Vince.

Being conservative is for the good teams, with established rotations and true all-stars on their roster. The Raptors, on the other hand, have about 4 legitimate NBA players on the entire team. Please don't blow this BC, draft for UPSIDE!!! I'm tired of watching a team that can't run, can't dunk and can't make plays at the end of a shot clock.

(by the way . . . Shaq to the Cavs.)

How about a Shaq trade to kick off the festivities? I'm not sure I get that one. Mind you, Cleveland didn't give up anything to get him, but is Shaq any kind of an impact player at this point? And what do they do with Ilgauskas? Cleveland now leads the league in seven footers who can't run or jump.

As for the Raps, I am heartened by the news that Jonny Flynn is high on their list. DeRozan would be my second choice, as he's got an outside chance of turning into something special. Johnson, Henderson and Holliday could turn out to be decent pros (Holliday in particular could turn out to be an excellent defender) but in a draft like this, I say roll the dice!

Why would we draft a PG? Haven't we learned anything from the summer of 2006 experience? We had Jose for 1 year and we swang to the fences acquiring an injury-prone TJ. Now we have Roko for 1 year and we want to draft a PG. Let's give Roko some time in the new season to see if/how he progressed and then take it from there. With Jose healthy we need only 10-15' of back-up PG. Even if he doesn't pan out we'll have Delfino to back-up Jose. In my opinion it would be a huge mistake to draft a PG. Holliday would make more sense as he is a combo however we absolutely need wings. DeRozan, Johnson, Henderson, whatever, no one knows how it will turn out. We can only hope the brass know what they are doing and enjoy the ride.

Some more interesting stats on a few of the top prospects:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/luke_winn/06/24/nba.draftnumbers/index.html?eref=si_topstories

Lawson and Blair time and time again keep coming up as prospects that will probably be drafted much too low...

Wow,let the bitching begin!!!,I must say that Holiday was my fourh choice...hopefully its a smoke screen!!!please
Now is the time to earn your money BC...Glad I'm not in your shoes...under one big microscope

I can't for the life of me understand why they would take a point guard in the draft. As for Holiday, I can't understand how he would be a good pick since he's a tweener. His biggest weakness is shooting and so I can't see how he would be a good shooting guard and if point guard is his position, then this will create a PG controversy in the future with Calderon.

I know this is off topic a bit...but what about Marcus Williams as a free agent?? He's still got some game and then that would allow us to take a chance on a DeRozan...no?

Original Aaron, I disagree a little; Derozan in another draft would be a mid to late teen pick according to draft express and I have to agree. This is a weak draft and DD doesn’t have future star written all over him, if that were the case he would be a top 3 pick. Instead he’s hovering around 9-12 in a very weak draft. He’s 19, raw and played 1 yr in college where 80% of the season he was a disappointment; you guys make him sound like the next VC.

I have nothing against the guy but frankly, Henderson, Johnson, definitely Flynn and Holiday have more to offer this team on the court next season and many seasons to come. All DD brings to the table is hope of turning into a star someday. NO THANKS.

If we’re looking for a star player that may change the face of this franchise then we need to acquire a top 3 pick but picking DD at 9 and thinking he’s going to be the next big thing someday is a fools gold.

Bobby, I second that. I'd love to see him on our summer league team and work his way onto the team from there. The only problem is his game is suited for more of a half court style. He's not the speedy change of pace that would contrast JC style.

I'd like to see us invite him to summer league and see what he's got tho, you never know he might be an affordable back-up.

By the way, does anyone else get frustrated when you work out the scenarios and you continuously come up with the same conclusion: We are one spot out?

NBADraft.net has Hill going 8th. DraftExpress has Evans going 8th.

Now, does anyone remember those debates at the end of the season about how we should not be playing our stars since we aren’t playing for anything anymore? How losing to the Knicks at the end of the season would have been a GOOD thing? Coming back to bite us now, isn’t it?

The question is, just how likely is DeRozan going to beat all expectations. My problem with a player of his ilk is that his track record doesn't really indicate true competitiveness, and he already seems to have a little bit of a diva-streak in his psychological make up. Having solo work out sessions and coasting for the first half of last season are not good indicators of a player that we want on this team, no matter how enticing his potential may be. Especially in a weak class. Do we seriously want another "soft" jump-shooting heavy athlete that gives us highlights once in a while? Isn't that who Jamario Moon was?

In any case, I'm still not sure I'll be down for tonight's draft party.

Also, I've decided to jump on the twitter train. You can find me at RapHQVicious.

lets remember the last time we drafted for need (position) we ended up with aruajo. derozan is a huge risk, he has a ton of athletisism but thats it, and we cant risk our future hoping he turns into the next carter. i dont mind raps taking either flynn of holiday, although i do hope it is flynn, cause he's a player, he has a lot of heart tryin to win games and he is a true leader with a great personality. if we end up in the same situation with a bunch of good pg's, then we could trade them for a sg/sf (way better than derozan). and we can get much better value than the tj trade cause roko and/or flynn dont have injury prone writtten over them, which scared offf plenty of teams. i say pick flynn, he will be the star of this draft just behind griffen and he will will our team to more victories this season and the next years. goo raps!

Zona do you mean when Bosh was insuring his 20/10 ?
The Knicks are going to throw a F... to us,a la Nets.

I still think it would make sense to trade our pick down either outright or by drafting someone that is loved by another team behind us and trade him to them for futures or a body. If we did that I would feel a lot better about taking a risk on a player with upside, otherwise, we need to pick the best player available period. This team cannot afford to take a gamble on a player who may end up being out of the league in 3 years, especially based solely on upside. Upside is great, as long as the player realises their upside. Based on the Raptors history drafting strictly on upside, do you really believe this pick will work out and if they do, won't they just leave like everyone else?

To me, I see a lot of similarities between Tyrus Thomas and Demar DeRozan..more than just the fact that their first and last names start with the same letter. Obviously, they play different positions on the court PF vs. SG, but to me, they are very similar players.

Thomas is slightly taller (6'8" vs 6'6.5"), slightly stronger, slightly faster. Both have similar vertical and lane agility, both came out as primarily athletic freaks, but both didn't have any real game strenghts outside of their physical prowess.

Thomas will help the Bulls, but he'll never be a star, and certainly didn't have an impact on the team in his first two years, and I see the same thing happening with DeRozan.

Draftexpress is saying the same things about both players prior to their being drafted (i.e. the real impact won't be known for a couple years down the road).

Here is the writeup on both guys:

Offensively, Thomas is fairly limited and gets most of his points right now through offensive rebounds and in transition. He doesn’t really have any type of back to the basket game to speak of, and probably lacks the strength to score this way even if he did as he has trouble at times holding his spot on the block. He’ll have to add some go-to moves to become a consistent scorer in the NBA, as well as better footwork in the post. Almost his entire offensive game at the moment revolves around dunks, although as mentioned already, he did not get much of a chance to show otherwise.

Thomas has shown sparks of being able to hit the mid-range jump-shot at times, but it wouldn’t be a stretch to say that he could still improve his touch from the perimeter, as well as from the free throw line where he shoots 66%. His mechanics look a bit awkward here and he would be well served to better utilize his leaping ability to get better lift on his shot. In half-court sets Thomas’ ball-handling looks like it could use some serious refinement.

And now DeRozan:

Still a very limited ball-handler, DeRozan’s offensive limitations are pretty significant if trying to project him immediately to the NBA. He struggles to change directions with the ball and possesses very little explosion off his first step, making him almost completely unable to create his own shot. If forced to dribble the ball more than once or twice he is liable to get stripped or look out of control, although he’s doing a good job of not putting himself in situations where he is liable to turn the ball over. He is averaging twice as many turnovers as assists, which ranks him last amongst all top shooting guard prospects

The fact that DeRozan’s jumper doesn’t have much range (he’s shooting just 2/22 from 3-point range), he cannot play pick and roll, is not a great passer, possesses just an average basketball IQ, and his understanding of how to operate in the half-court is limited, makes him a clear-cut project for the NBA. The main question is, how much he is going to improve over the next few years? The answer to that largely depends on his work ethic and character, which draws strong reviews from those around him. Some teams are not that opposed to taking a player who obviously possesses great upside, especially once you get outside of the lottery. One GM we spoke to compared him to Gerald Wallace as a freshman, saying how he was even more limited a player at the same point in his career.

Now, Thomas was a 4th overall pick and DeRozan will be a 9-15 pick, so I mean, either we are getting a decent deal on DeRozan if he is in any way similar to Thomas, or there really is that much of a difference in their games.

Does anyone else see the similarities? Am I crazy?

Merry Draft-mas everyone. Honestly there is a bit too much energy expended on criticizing players we haven't seen play in an NBA game yet. But here are some things to think about. Whom they draft can't be viewed in isolation; you have to assume that it is tied into other intended moves to fill out the roster, maybe some bigger than we're expecting. So, if they are committed to drafting a point guard, it should mean they have other ways in mind to fill out the wing deficiencies. I'll just sit back and enjoy the fact that we actually have a first round pick to use this year and wait to see how the other things in free agency and through trades play out before passing judgment on how the team might do.

Here is the first update from NYC:

Apparently the biggest wildcard right now is the Warriors. No-one has a good grasp on what they are going to do. Could someone fall to the Raps if they go off the board?

Exciting times. I agree with Interloper that there's way too much pressure on this draft as being the game changer for the raps. A lot will play out between now and the start of next season I'm sure.

That said.... I still love watching and seeing which direction teams go... so much fun.

Now....HOW DO THE RAPS GET ONE OF MINNESSOTA'S TWO TOP PICKS???? That would make this THAT much more exciting...

not sure if this has been discussed, but does the Cavs all of a sudden having a huge amount of cap room in 2010 (due to the Shaq trade), and them most likely targeting Bosh because of it. Does this change anything in the draft strategy?

Passing on a Wing as with DeRozan, Henderson, or Johnson (when you have zero signed) to draft a Point Guard when you have 3 signed is the height of stupidity.

Raptors biggest problem the last 2 years has been the lack of athleticisim and talent at the wings.

The last thing they need is another rookie PG who will fight for 12/15 minutes to back-up JC.

Props to the whole HQ team regarding their draft coverage since the start of the year, and media access in NY.
Announcing a "top five" could be a little shoutout to teams drafting lower. ie If the Raptors drafted someone you like, and your lukewarm about who's available at your slot, use your five minutes to give BC a call, and if say James Johnson is still on the board at say 16 we can talk turkey then. However, the basic parameters for a deal would have to be laid with multiple teams drafting below us ahead of time.

Casey, yeah I see where your coming from. Tyrus had several skill areas which were lacking, just like DD. Assuming he could address ALL of them is wishful thinking. The comparisons to guys like Travis Outlaw, Gerald Wallace, and Iguodala, well they are more conservative then a VC comparison. I don't get the sense that DeRo is pure risk like say Mullens. Another thing to keep in mind is that teams in our draft slot NEVER have a chance at prototype athletic players that are also proven. If we need an athlete without trading up, the tradeoff is that they will be somewhat raw. There are no guarantees that there will be wings worth drafting at your pick in the future. Remember the 2008 17 pick, the best value was raw bigmen, and according to DSmith the top guys on the Raptors board were JaVale McGee and Alexis Ajinca.

Henderson: Would feel better if he was bigger, ie 6'6 or 6'7, let him cover minutes at the 3. He seems like the Keep-It-Simple-Stupid pick, fill a hole and require no roster shuffling.
J.Johnson: A Bosh-Bargnani frontcourt requires a rough and tough 3 man. They brought in a bunch for workouts (ie Derrick Brown (great Marion like combine measurements), Damion James, Sam Young, and T-Will. If Johnson is still in the mix, my guess is he brings more bball IQ and specific bball skills then the others, cause he's not a flashy athlete. If he's drafted, it could be a sign Marion is on his way out.

JFlynn: Affects Ukic directly, and Calderon down the line. You don't draft a backup pg at 9, and if he's on track to be a starter, he will reach it before Calderon's contract expires.

Holliday: Seems like the pick you want others to covet from you afterwards. There is a big time fascination with the concept of the big pg in the NBA. He isn't as attractive a prospect if the goal is to make him a combo guard. Doesn't have the athleticism to make up for being undersized at the 2G spot. Also lacks the kind of raw speed and quickness which makes Flynn so attractive in the no-handcheck era. He's a better athlete/defender/finisher when compared to Calderon, but is he different enough to be worth changing pgs? If he's the pick and we keep him, its because he was definitively better then everyone else left at 9, so that criteria like fit never had a chance to come into play.

Like Interloper and McClarky, part of me is content to sit back and enjoy the festivities. Following their progress will add another area of interest for next year.

If Flynn is available it would still make sense to draft him especially if he is likely starter down the road as he will draw interest from teams behind Toronto. Trying to fit a square peg in a round hole by stretching to draft a guy who can be had 4 or 5 picks later (johnson) would be silly and I am just not convinced that derozan will be anything more than a project. YOU ALWAYS DRAFT THE BEST PLAYER AVAILABLE in the lottery. Teams at the back of the draft can afford to gamble on simple upside but teams in the lottery make the same mistake year after year (which is why they are still in the lottery). Atlanta did make a mistake not drafting for position (Chris Paul)but by drafting the best player available every year they have built a very solid team and then they went out and traded for the piece they needed. Same with Boston, they just kept adding talent until they had enough to make deals. The key is not to get stuck with bust after bust otherwise you just end up as the clippers. Who cares if the Raptors have 3 other PGs? One is useless and another is a complete unknown which means we really have only one PG who has been injury prone. Do you really want to bet the franchise on Ukic becoming an NBA level backup guard?

Answering the Shaq trade and its impact on Cleveland pursuing Bosh. It will have 0 impact on their ability to sign Bosh next season as Shaq is going into the final year of the deal. His salary will come off and Cleveland will still be able to make a run at Bosh.

AM I THE ONLY ONE THAT CANT GO ON NBA.COM?

Am I the only one wondering why Atlanta is trading for Crawford? I mean he isn't a true PG (though he can fill the role) and though he can help them if they can't get a deal done with Bibby, I think that is a massive drop off in PG talent. Crawford is better suited to being a back up PG and playing as a swing guard. I cannot help but think that this a pre-emptive move. That Crawford will be used in another trade down the road (NBA trade rules are so messed up but I think they have to wait 3 month's before they can package him with another player which would put it around September/October and training camp). Am I reading too much into this?

The sad reality is by the time a young prospect develops (a la T-Mac).....well you get the picture. Sucks, eh? Yeah, that's one of the reasons I'm a jaded fan.

In T-Mac's rookie year, he was one of the only reasons to watch (Camby, Stoudemire too)...of course he only played the last 3 minutes of every third game. But it was damn rewarding as a fan when he started to develop, wasn't it? Oh well, can't blame McGrady, the organization treated him like crap. Most exciting, versatile player to ever wear the purple, the franchise's best draft pick, lost for nothing.How did he turn out anyway?

In an ideal world, in my opinion,if you have a top ten pick, you still swing for the fences wherever possible.

Great coverage this year as always guys, I think we will get a player to be excited about tonight either way.

As for Roko, I still think he could be pretty good.

-we really have only one PG who has been injury prone-

I know completely off topic but I just dont understand this. THis is the fifth time in 2 weeks Ive heard people mention Jose as injury prone..... 1 injury is all of a sudden injury prone

According to Michael Grange, James Johnson is our man, as DeRozen will be gone before our pick, according to three of his NBA sources. Holiday would be our 2nd choice.

I am surprised by this as almost all the mocks have DeRozen falling to us at #9.

Here is the link: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/blogs/from-deep/raptors-have-their-man/article1196781/

I will be a little pissed off if the Raps don't buy a second 1st round pick. Not because there is a particular player i feel they should target (though there is some talent I'd like), but Because when the Marion/JO deal was made, we gave up a 1st round pick. Everyone thought it was ridiculous to give up a 1st and BC wriggled out of it by saying that the 3mil would be used to get a pick and balance out the trade. Well, only a few months later and it is looking like that 3 mil is going into the MLSE coffers.

If nothing happens we have traded,

TJ (who had an extremely low value)
Rasho (serviceable big)
Moon (our weak starting SF)
Baston (good riddance)
AND TWO 1st rounders (Hibbard and ?)

for

1 highly mediocre year of JO and Matrix.

Banks awful contract

Not that I am bitter or anything - I liked both deals at the time. But it is just like a good night out drinking; it feels good at the time but the hangover is a bitch.

You know, I think the problem with Johnson is that I think most people believe he could be had with a lower pick. I wouldn't mind seeing the Raps trade down to select Johnson; or take a player many teams covet and then look to make a deal with the team that takes Johnson.

One thing though, at least Johnson (in theory) should be able to come in and play right away.

Rob

RObert Archibald just told it like it is. +1

Rob

Funny you mentioned that Robert

From the NY Post Today

The New York Knicks have already used their financial might on Draft Day and have purchased the 29th pick in the draft from the Lakers, according to a Knicks source. The price is around $3 million - which is the highest an NBA team can include in a deal.

Knicks president Donnie Walsh said Monday he was looking to purchase a late first-round pick, feeling there were good players in the draft between 20 and 30. The Knicks don't have a first-round pick in 2010, also influencing the decision

Rumour coming down that Orlando and New Jersey are in serious talks to deal Carter for Lee, Battie, and Alston.

If DeRozan is taken higher, that’s good news. It means someone drops. That someone is then taken with the 9th pick, no? Does it get any simpler?

I think the real question is what GS does. Nellie is unpredictable and I look for him to pick Jennings with the 7th pick. They’ve been linked to him in the past and they need guard help. If this happens, it opens things up for us.

As it stands, I’m not thrilled with JJ. Right now I’m leaning towards Flynn, Holiday, DeRozan & JJ in that order.

On the second pick, BC said he wasn’t sure it’s worth the financial commitment. Salary for the:

15th pick would be $1,398,200
20th pick would be $1,099,100
25th pick would be $896,200
30th pick would be $824,200.

What financial commitment? What FA can you get for that kind of cash?

ps Does anyone know what time the draft starts and what station is carrying?

This Just in...Vince Carter to Orlando for alston, Lee and Battie as per ESPN's Chad ford

NOOOoOOOOOOOooooOOOOooo!!!!!!!

Tuning in from NYC, about to head over to MSG in about a half hour with Holly MacKenzie from the Score (StackMac on Twitter for those who follow her already.)

Interesting that Grange is saying Johnson because on the NYC side, I'm back to hearing DeRozan.

My gut still says Holiday if he's there, with Johnson as option 2.

Just with all the trades (how crazy is this as an aside???), it's harder and harder to get a read on who's doing what.

Wow - I dont login for a few hours and the nba world is going crazzzzzzy!!!

Loving all these deals, nba fan dream coming true. But for the raps, east is getting tuffer and tuffer.

here's the Link.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4287197

How long will BC stay in love with his mediocre group of star players??

Hell! The way these veteran players are being thrown around... I fully expect the next big trade announced to be some strange brew of Calderon and Bosh + for Nash and Stoudamire... thus reuniting the old Phoenix crew once again! LOL.

What's all this talk about the East getting tougher?

The only two teams that got any better are Cleveland With Shaq and Orlando with VC; Milwaukee gave away Jefferson and the Nets did the same with Vince.

Are people here really so delusional that they thought the Raptors would challenge either the Cavs or Magic next year????

Rob

Re VC trade: I wonder how much of an impact that will really have on Orlando. For one, they just got worse defensively (Lee was probably their best on the ball defender). I also wonder how much jump Vince has left in those legs. On the other hand, this might be his best shot at a title and he won't be asked to carry the franchise, so maybe that will motivate him - to the extent that he can be motivated.

The VC trade isn't a good trade for Orlando, it's a GREAT trade. They get rid of a redundant and unstable player in Alston, oft-injured Battie and the only value they really gave up was Lee.....for a guy in VC who puts up 20, 5, 5 in his sleep (which is mostly how he plays). Not to mention that VC will be playing near home with a lot to prove and a championship on the line.

Don't be surprised if Vince puts up 27 a game next year because teams will still be doubling Howard down low, and will still have to respect Lewis' + Nelson's shot.

On the Raptors front, it would behoove BC to make a call to ATL because there are reports that the Hawks may look to trade Joe Johnson rather than lose him as an FA next year, and that the Crawford trade is a precursor to that. They have no PG's since Bibby isn't re-signed, so maybe the Raps should make an offer along the lines of Bargnani + #9 (Jennings/Holiday/Flynn) to ATL for Johnson.

It's a dream scenario for the Raps, but the Hawks can't pay everyone on that roster and the ownership issue still isn't resolved. I'm just saying.

Rob

No more news yet on the Raps pick dilemma, seems like this might come right down to the wire. Sitting in the media room at MSG and everyone's still looking for last minute takes on what's going to happen.

As for the VC trade, everyone here in NYC is saying this means the end of Hedo in Orlando...which scares the hell out of me as a Raps faan.

I'm not keen on DD at all. I'd rather draft someone that could contribute right away than someone that may never contribute. It is almost as if people think that by drafting someone that isn't NBA ready now, they will automatically make up for it by being a superstar later.

If we draft Henderson he would be able to start next year and he would still improve over the following few years. DD would not be a starter this season or possibly even next, and there is still no guarantee that he will be any good. He is a late lotto pick in a bad draft year. I am for going with the safe bet.

End of the day, I am not going to allow myself to be too disappointed with a draft pick before they play any game. I'm don't watch much of the NCAA game and I get most of my input on picks online. Last year I listened to my favorite pundits and felt the Raps needed to draft CDR or Bill Walker. Sorry for the dig, but it is so unpredictable. I am willing to wait and see, the draft is a crap shoot. For every Ed O'Banon there is a Mo Pete.

PS - I also can't get onto NBA.com

Hedo= HEDOn't?

VC doesn't bring it every play, but he's capable of the kind of awe-inspiring last minute heroics that can decide a playoff series. Celtics vs. Orlando games = awesome.
Regarding the backup pg position, I'd rather have a vet coming off the bench, with Ukic as the wildcard.

If I was a team drafting in the top 15 I wouldn't feel compelled to move up. With a mixed up draft like this one, chances are teams have a 1a,1b,and 1c option at every position. Why trade up and pay a higher draft slot salary, when you can get a player of similar quality by staying put? And Marion's situation has got to in the back of BC's head. I wonder if he tries to add a wing tonight (via trade) so that he has some leverage in negotiations with Marion/other free agents. As Franchise mentioned, the pot of attractive contracts (ie Claxton's insurance payout and San Anton's non-guaranteed deals) is dwindling.

by the way micheal jackson is dead , i know is not rapotrs new but this is serious

RIP MJ, damn....that sucks.
(Sorry this is the only website I post anything on anymore.)