Gerald Henderson and Quincy Douby? – RaptorsHQ Recaps the June 16 Workouts.

Interesting chat with BC this morning on the fan. Check it out: http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20090617_073349_9160

Highlights include:
Regardless of what happens, Griffin, Thabeet and Rubio will be gone followed by Harden, Curry and Evans. That leaves the Raptors with two points, Holiday & Flynn, two wings in DeRozan and Henderson and James Johnson with Hill rounding out a list of 6 possibilities.

Delfino got a qualifying offer which gives the Raps a right to match other offers which they intend to do.

They are one of only 6 teams with cap space and see some good FA that would be available for all or a portion of the mid level.

No talk about a second pick. It didn’t even seem to be on his mind. Didn’t help that the interviewers have no NBA knowledge.
Strategy is, as it always was, to play out the year with Bosh and try to resign him next summer. If that doesn’t work, sign and trade him next year where you’ll maximize value. That’s plan A and B. No plan C. Not looking to trade Bosh this year. This has been his consistent message. This has also been consistently reported by Doug Smith which, think what you will of him, is connected to what’s going on. Can we now please stop the trade Bosh nonsense? He’s not going anywhere!

hahaha... it's so true, the morning show hosts on the fan really turned me off from listening to the fan in the morning...

Does Gord still relate everything back to hockey and the leafs? UGH!!

Anyhow, from the sounds of Smith's post this morning, he anticipating a pretty active BC this summer. Here's hoping he steals the show on draft night.

A-men to the Bosh nonsense.

I would add Earl Clark @ SF & Terence Williams @ SG to your list of potentials who will be available, and would fill a role with Raptors.

I would not waste a pick on a PG at this time of our desperate need for athletic wings talent.

So, do we know if the Raps are involved in any of the trade talks regarding the Pistons pick at 15???

That wold be the ideal spot if you're looking to add one of Earl Clark or T.Williams. I think Clark is this draft's Danny Granger; a guy who will go mid first round and then develop into a stud (maybe not 25ppg). He has all the skills, played on a college club with other talent where he wasn't the only option, so like Vince Carter (playing with Jamison) he might be able to take it to the next level in the NBA.

2nd Raps, I totally agree, T. Williams/Derozan/Henderson & Earl Clark would mean a great draft year for us.

Not sure whether Bosh will be traded or not, but the idea of trading him now is NOT nonsense, it is an opinion that has it's merits, irrespective if (any of) you like it or not.

The strategy BC is implementing is the one of a risk taker (someone would say a gambler) and unless explain how (with what money) you plan on building a winning team around him at max money, it has no upside

I think we need to see what moves BC makes this summer and what kind of team he puts together before any decision can be made on Bosh.

Right now the focus should be putting together the best team with Bosh being a part of it. If by the time preseason rolls around and we haven't been able to upgrade the personal significantly i thing Bosh has to come into play.

Wish i knew what the delfino offer was. Still not sold on him as an option next year and wondering if the money offered to him couldnt be put to better use.

Longrange,

Listening to BC this morning he seems to believe Delfino is worth just under (or at) the mid-level exception.

As a good role-player I like him, but not if that makes the difference in space between signing a Trevor Ariza.

Speaking of which BC alluded to free agents in LA he's interested in, but added based on their success this season they may be more tempted to stay. (At least that's what I recall hearing while trying to order at Krispy Kreme....)

Based on his comments, it sounds like BC has Holiday and Flynn ranked ahead of Jennings... Jennings isn't even on his radar. Interesting stuff indeed

PS... The actual offer to Delfino was the minimum required by the CBA. Enough so they retain the right to match...

The whole Bosh debate and whether we should be paying him max dollars reminds me of Draco.

Draco of course was the first legislator of ancient Athens, Greece, 7th century BCE. Draco established the legal code with which he is identified. The laws, however, were particularly harsh. For example, the death penalty was the punishment for even minor offenses. The stringency of his legal code gave rise to the modern English word "draconian," meaning marked by extreme severity or cruelty, especially about laws or governments. Concerning the liberal use of the death penalty in the Draconic code, Plutarch (AD 46 – 120, was a Greek historian) states:

"It is said that Drakon himself, when asked why he had fixed the punishment of death for most offences, answered that he considered these lesser crimes to deserve it, and he had no greater punishment for more important ones.

Why the history lesson you ask? Well, I see a parallel here. I think that what Bosh brings to the table does deserve max money and GMs have no greater reward for more important players (Wade/Kobe/James).

Renato, I respectfully disagree. Name me one team, just one, that is looking to trade its best player. A player who fits in nicely, is a good citizen and has given no indication he is leaving. We won’t be the first team to pay max dollars, happens to most teams, even some who contend for a championship. I don’t need to understand the math, I trust in BC. You need a dominant big man and a slashing guard to get places in the playoffs. We have one of the key ingredients, why would you throw that away? Especially with no downside on waiting it out?

Zona: you have yet to tell me how do you pay such a slasher, until you do, we cannot have a debate because those ones (me among them) who favor a Bosh trade have paid their due (told you why, tried to give you an example of what one could expect to get back and so on) while you are countering the argument just with wishful thinking. There is no such thing as a free lunch and under the CAB rules you move within certain boundaries. Please put in black and white a plausible strategy that will let the Raps be a winning team around Bosh and work out the finances. Than we'll talk.

Gerald Henderson looks to be the most NBA ready at his position. As a Raptor he could be a Aaron Mckie type of player that can provide offence and defense. I like the idea of re-signing Delfino because it shouldn't monetarily affect BC's decision to add one more piece to the puzzle. The last moves that BC should make are re-signing Marion, Parker, and Pops. Realistically, the team doesn't need a major overhaul, they just need consistent contributions at the wing positions.

The final lineup:
Starters
Andrea
Bosh
Marion
Henderson
Calderon

Bench:
Delfino
Parker
Roko
Evans
Pops
Banks
Voskhul

Any updates on the DeRozen workout today?

Ian Thomsen, CNNSI, has a new mock draft, and the Raptors have Jordan Hill coming our way. The big surprise is Tyreke Evans going #2 to Memphis, and Jonny Flynn going #4 to Sacramento. Here is the link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ian_thomsen/06/16/mock.draft3/index.html and you can check out all his projections.

Renato, even if you don’t think you could make the numbers work, keeping Bosh till next summer is the right play to maximize his value to the team. Trading him now would be a VC trade part II. Do we really need two more Williams’ and a player who it is an honour just to have named as part of our organization even if he is too injured to ever play again until two weeks later in another uniform? (as an aside, I wonder if Mourning will be wearing the old school purple Raptors uniform at his Hall of Fame induction ceremony?)

By keeping Bosh, you have an opportunity to first and foremost sign him. It’s hard to predict what your salaries may look like in 2010, there could be many trades that change the situation drastically. Why give up on him 12 months in advance?

Secondly, even if he decides he wants to leave, it’s in both our interest and his interest that he works a sign and trade deal. There will be teams lining up for him. We will not be bidding against ourselves as he does have a market and GMs will be lining up for his services. Once James and Wade have rent the U-Haul, there will be many left over GMs turning their attention to Bosh and BC. I have no doubt it will be a sellers market for Bosh’s services.

Third, even if you don’t buy any of these arguments and you think he is walking for $30m less because he just refuses to sit in the same room as BC and negotiate, he still has tremendous value to us as an expiring contract which in 2010 will be far more tangible than any number of Williams’.

Therefore, looking at numbers is not only pointless, it completely misses the point.

None the less, here we go:

To estimate the salaries, there are a lot of assumptions that have to be made. The question at hand is how could we sign Bosh in 2010, therefore, I am focusing in on 2010.

I fully expect Marion to either sign for $8M or be gone in a sign and trade situation. Therefore, "Marion "could either be Marion or his replacement. If we do a sign and trade, let’s assume we sign Marion for $12M and trade him for a player making $8M and another one making $4M. In the analysis below, the second player would replace our MLE player.

We will draft a SF, bring in Delfino to run the 2 backed up by either a MLE player or the second player in the Marion sign and trade. For this analysis, it doesn’t really matter which of the 2 is the starter. We will sign Nesterovic for a one year deal which means he is gone by 2010. We will also draft a PG with the 15th pick we obtain for cash from Detroit. NBADraft.net has Holiday available at that spot. Otherwise, we pick up Lawson.

Both Jawai and O’Bryant will be off the books by 2010. I assume Douby who doesn’t currently have a contract will not be around (1 year deal this year). Add a draft pick in 2010 which gets us the following:

Bargnani/2010 draft pick
Bosh/Evans/Humphries
DeRozan/Marion
Delfino/MLE
Calderon/Holiday/Ukic/Banks

So what does all this mean salary wise?

Bargnani $8,500,000
Bosh $16,509,600
Marion $8,000,000
Delfino $4,000,000
Calderon $9,000,000
2010 Draft Pick $1,500,000
Evans $5,080,000
DeRozan $2,500,000
MLE $5,000,000
Ukic $1,450,000
Humphries $3,200,000
Holiday $1,700,000
Banks $4,752,000

For a grand total of $71,191,600
The luxury tax was at $71.15M this past year. No one knows for sure what it would be in 2009 but it would be reasonable to expect it goes down somewhat. What will it be in 2010? Who knows? But I am assuming it goes up from the number about to be set for the current year. Let’s say it’s back to about the same threshold as last year, $71M. Sure looks like our numbers work. Also, there is some ability to play with the MLE. I assumed the full amount of $5M, but this could turn out to be lower.
You could probably argue with any one of the numbers I presented, but the point is that there is a plausible opportunity to keep Bosh and keep building towards a solid playoff caliber team.
Please let this be the end of the "trade Bosh" nonsense.

Zona, chose to disagree but trading Bosh isn't 'nonsense'. Problem in a nutshell is that your 2010 team kinda sucks (and we won't have a 1st rounder next year). Salaries beyond continue to balloon - Bosh gets his raise, Bargs gets the new contract, etc. It just isn't a team that excites me, nor do I think it is a winner.
I am willing to settle in and see what BC can do. I do still trust him. As you said yourself, I'll enjoy watching this season then see what happens NEXT off season.

Even if BC's first choice was to trade Bosh on draft day, we wouldn't hear that. BC's only play is to say that he is happy with how things are, and show other GM's he is patient.

I was just trolling other basketball sites, reading about the players in the upcoming draft. James Johnson from Wake Forest has to be my pick for sleeper pick in the draft. Not only is he 6'8", 245lbs (Lebron type body - good!) and in his Chicago tryout he was guarding and keeping up with guards (Lebron type quickness - really good!!). Apparently he is an excellent ball handler (Lebron-like again!!) but the kicker to me is that his Dad is a 7 time World kick boxing champion (no pun intended). How could anybody ignore genes like that? He is the son of Secretariat! Please Brian, pick James Johnson. He will be a super star. Trust me. I am never wrong (not that I'll admit right now anyways). Welcome to Toronto James.

Just a note on the first couple comments re: trading Bosh.

Even if BC was 100% set on trading Bosh he would say the same thing he's saying. Admitting a player is very much on the block decreases his value. If other teams think BC's plan is to keep him, but know that the opt out looms, they will assume that he can be pried away for the right package, and only the right package.

Regardless of whether he's trading him or not, that's just smart business by BC.

And it wouldn't be a Vince Carter part 2 situation. Vince was playing the worst basketball of his career up to the point in the season that we traded him (16 ppg if I'm not mistaken) Bosh, coming off his great Olympic performace, and 4 straight years of all star caliber play, has arguably never had a higher trade value than he did a few months ago. (Before the trade rumours started, because, as I mentioned, talk of him being available decreases his trade value)

Re: the actual post, I like Henderson a lot. Love his character, like his game. I'd still probably prefer DeRozan, but Henderson seems to me like a better plan B than Holiday or Flynn.

Well said Zona. I think you've "paid your due", and it didn't even involve a ridiculous trade scenerio involving sending Bosh to Chicago for their overpayed spare parts, or sending Bosh to GS for their over hyped spare parts, or sending Bosh to New York and, well, you get the idea. Well done. I liked the history lesson as well.

Thanks for posting the fan590 link this morning Zona. One thing's for certain, while we've maligned BC for a lack of a plan in the past, it sure sounds like he's had this off-season laid out for a while and is going through things step by step.

However as all of us have said time and time again, "WHY CAN'T THEY DO BASKETBALL RELATED INTERVIEWS WITH PEOPLE WHO KNOW BASKETBALL???"

We haven't heard anything about Toronto trying to grab Detroit's pick at 15, although that doesn't mean the Raps haven't tried. I'd love to see Toronto come out of this draft class with two solid players but I'm getting the feeling they're going to stick with one for now.

As for James Johnson, I agree that on paper, he looks fantastic. But having seen him play at Wake, you have to wonder if he's got a bit of Joey Graham in him; physical marvel who looks to have all the tools that just can't consistently put it together. There's NO WAY that Wake Forest team shouldn't have had a long tourney run and in my opinion, a lot of that falls on Johnson's shoulders.

PS - Slick Rick - Like the Aaron McKie comparison, that could be bang on.

PPS - Working on the DeRozan write-up now, updates and photos to come in the morning!

Zona, thanks for the BC interview highlights.

Franchise, Its good to hear that Henderson impressed. Whoever has the best chance to be a top 3 scoring option out of DeRonzan, Henderson, Holliday, would be my pick.

Jordanfanatic:
I was forming my Bosh cap post (last day) while you were posting yours, else I would've typed more of a response. You laid out some well thought out points, it does come down to agree to disagree.

I value: Significant cap space in 2011, and wait till the next collective bargaining agreement for any new non-core longterm player contracts (Summer 2011?) and possibly more favorable terms. This means signing Marion to two years plus an option year that can be bought out for x (negotiable) dollars. Its best to either be REALLY under the cap ($10mill+) or 1 or 2 mill under the tax. Anything between the two is only useful for competing for mid-level calibre players.

1) Given how close we are to the tax, EVEN if Bosh's contract comes off the books in 2010, we wouldn't be far enough under the cap to facilitate a beyond midlevel free agent signing.

2) If you keep Bosh, there aren't enough expiring 2011 contracts (Evans, Hump,Banks) to put you far enough under the cap in 2011. If Marion, and Delfino sign for two years NOW we've got a chance to be significantly under and that's right we kept Bosh.

I'm not opposed to signing Bosh outright, but corresponding moves have to made to provide future flexibility. Part of that involves Zona's idea of negotiation with Bosh, perhaps with a lower base salary in 2011. A max contract with max yearly increases, reduces cap space in 2011, and strangles the team by year 5 and 6. Using Jordanfanatic's numbers (year 1 =$17.6 mil), I want no part of 24.5m(2014-15) or 25.4m(2015-16) in the last two years of the deal. However, those only factor in yearly increases of 8.5%. If we gave max allowable of 10.5%, the last two years are $26m and $29m. Keeping Bosh with flexibility is plausible, but only if both sides take the big picture into account.

The Kicker: As Robert Archibald states, if one factors in year-to-year increases for Bargs and Calderon in future years...I doubt if Bosh would be willing to negotiate that much to preserve cap space in 2011 and beyond. So the question then becomes if you keep Bosh which of Bargs or Calderon do you trade and when?

Zona:
I recall BC saying that a year's cap figure is set by a complex calculation including the previous year's revenues. This means that the 2009 cap figure reflects only the slight drop in 2008. The 2010 figure will reflect the larger hit in 2009 revenues, and will fall further as a result. Debating trade Bosh now or sign and trade later is purely a matter of preference if you agree that it means you trade Bosh eventually. I support maximum return, whenever he's traded IF he's traded. Given equivalent offers, I'd make the one that best balances cap space in 2011 with assets.
(I waited until the thread was almost dead to post. I want to go back to being a Raptors draftnik. )

Zona - I was once in the work to resign Bosh camp as well but unless he plays like he did last November, for the entire season, I do not see any point in resigning him to a max deal. Your reasoning is completely sound but I think the team would be just another 1 and done (1st round playoff team) ever year which is not a good situation to be in.
The one problem I do have with trading Bosh (especially since we all have to acknowledge that we are not going to get a franchise player back for him) is that we would be starting from scratch. Does anyone here really believe that Bargnani is a franchise player? He may be very good one day but I just do not see him being the centre of our offence and defense and carrying the team on his back. That leaves the Raps in a quandry. We will have no franchise player, not much prospect of trading for one (unless he is over the hill) and only a small chance of drafting one (for the next few years as even if there is one every year, you still have to get lucky and win the lottery). This is a very bleak picture for the future. I am getting really antsy about this draft as we really need to draft multiple studs with only one pick. It is for this reason that I think we should work to draft Evans who looks like a lock as a Franchise Guard (as much as there is one in this draft) or failing that target one of the other good PGs then trade Calderon for the spare parts we need, tank, let Bosh ride off into the sunset (sign and trade) and rebuild. This scenario will at least leave the Raps with some cap flexibility going into the future and as they will suck for a couple of years, we won't have to give up our 1st round pick until we have added some solid players to help us get over the hump (did yall forget Miami gets our non-lottery pick from now until 2015 when they get whatever our pick is?). Better to rebuild now then wait 3 years and have to forfeit our pick at the worst possible time (like 2 years ago when Thaddeus Young could have been had if we had a pick that we could use to move up to get him).

It's great to hear that O'Bryant & Douby are doing summer work. Kudos to them, I wish them a more active and productive year this coming NBA season.!!!!