Pre-Draft Workouts for Tuesday, June 16, 2009

Franchise,

Two questions, and to the rest of the bloggers...

1) Would you even consider trading for Tmac? Apparently he is on the market...or do you think he is too close to retiring cuz of his back

2) Would you try sign Hedo? I think Hedo is excellent and i gained a lot more respect for him after these playoffs.. I have to admitt i thought he was overhyped before, but now i think he is the real deal.

3) Jamison is also on the market, would you do a deal with bosh for him (and some extra parts)?

Additionally,

Royal Ivey walked away from his final year and is now a free agent... he wants over a million a year... but wat do you think about him as a back up PG

Taking on Tmac would be a "clear cap space" move like the Iverson deal. The problem is that unless Houston sweetened the pot, they do not have much that can help us from a picks stand point (they are always going to be a playoff team so long as Yao doesnt go down for half a season). Considering that Bosh is the only player whose contract is close enough to make the deal work, I am not sure that Toronto can make the deal (granted I believe that if Toronto has 10 mil in cap space they could send two other players there that total 10 mil but that would leave Toronto in a very tight spot player personelle wise).
I like Hedo but I think he will cost too much money to sign. He isn't going to leave Orlando for a mid level and I am not sure it would be wise to invest a 12 mil or more deal for a player when you are not sure whether he would work with the personelle you have (remember his effectiveness has increased since Rashard Lewis arrived and Howard's game has improved).

I still think Bosh needs to develope something outside of Rebounding and scoring (unless he becomes an elite scorer - averages 25 + per game) however, I think he will get a max deal from someone. As I changed my mind on his worthiness for a max deal last week, I am now starting to think the Raps should simply take a deal where they can clear cap space going forward and maybe get one young prospect for him plus picks. The Chicago deals all suck from a cap standpoint and most other teams will be reluctant to make any deal unless they believe they can resign him. I think the Raps will wait and do a sign and trade next season as it is there best chance to get something of value without killing their cap for the future.

Wow, tons of breaking news Franchise. I am so tired of reading Doug Smith and his condescending attitude to his readers, but have always felt that he had the inside sources as a beat writer to break stuff. My attitude has now changed, and there is so much snarkiness and BS to get by, not to mention an unwillingness to once even admit that he was wrong on something, that I am going to boycott him from now on and see how long I can last. Your site is superior on every level than his, and thankfully you have full media access to make it the best Raptors site out there, period.

Firstly, on Adnan Virk replacing Johnson is a fantastic move, and one that I fully welcome. Maybe Raptors TV will actually be watchable now. If we can move Leo out and put him to pasture maybe there is hope, and also get a better play by play man.

Regarding Bosh, I do give him credit for doing his best to maximize his full potential, and as long as his bulk does not hinder his quickness then I am all for it. My issue is his internal drive, which seems to go on and off, as he just does not have the mental fortitude to stick to it. Will the next girlfriend derail his focus? The time to move him is now, and if not now, then once he gets off to an awesome start against inferior teams, move him then when his market value is the highest. I do NOT want to max him out, and cripple our organization for years to come. He just is not worth it, period. Unfortunately, Colangelo still believes that Chris is worth a max contract, is our team leader even at the 2, and we have to build around him. We have no hope if this continues, and the more public pressure we as fans can put on him to change his viewpoint, the better.

For the workouts, if the player does not show up, do not draft him, period, or draft him and trade his ass out of town immediately. This speaks volumes about a player's personality, and if can not man up and perform in whatever manner a team wants to take a look at him, then I don't want him on my roster.

It should be noted that Mullens is going to the NBA because of financial reasons otherwise, I'm pretty sure he'd stay in school.

Also, it should be noted that agents really control who works out where. Just because a player does not work out for a particular reason doesn't necessarily mean you don't draft him if you think he's the best player available.

Gotta make this quick.

No Tmac, no Hedo, no Jamison. Imho you go with youth and developement. It's nice to have experience, but those three options all have their own particular issues wether it be health or age or unreliability.

Uh oh, the boss is coming.

DFP, you are 100% right in the sense that agents control the show for workouts.

My point is in tandem with Colangelo doing his due diligence, which of course he will do, to see whether the player, via the agent, really wants to have Toronto draft him or not. If Bryan is O.K. with the reasons why, then of course, he will draft him if he was going to pick him anyways.

At the same time, there are certain players out there that want to provide the teams considering them with all the information they need to help them make an informed decision on whether to draft them or not. I have to still give those players willing to lay it ont he line some extra kudos, and I am sure that Colangelo feels that way as well. This shows me that they are willing to take on all comers to prove their worth, and we need players like that on our roster.

In regards to some other team offering max dollars for Bosh...yup it will happen however that other team may not be handcuffed like we would end up not being able to surround him with good help....is he James or Wade NO but the problem is these guys dont fall from trees and Bosh is the closest player we have to that level...
We are screwed if we sign him,and screwed if we dont !!!
For what its worth,I've got no problem with Henderson.In regards to players not participating in drills its their agents taking care of their clients best interest...This is an NBA problem and should be addressed.
Who votes for Mr. Blackberry buying the Raps!!!

Let’s look at some possibilities for next season if Bosh re-sign for the MAX.
Contract below are just estimation, with a projected Salary Cap of 58.68 million with a luxury tax threshold of $71.15 million

Since CB4 is the center piece let assume he gets 7 years – 130 million
Break down

Assuming the Cap is at $58.68 million which is a fair estimate IMO

09-10 or 10-11: $17.6 mil (depends)
11-12: $19.0 mil
12-13: $20.5mil
13-14: $23.0 mil
14-15: $24.5mil
15-16: $25.4 mil

Thus let look at this current team as it his assuming we sign AP and Marion plus draft pick of either DD/Evans/J. Flynn or S. Curry (I hope) with a second pick of T.Williams, Jeff Teague or Ty. Lawson (get it done B.C.) and pick up option on Delfino.

In 2010

CB4 = 17.6 million
AB = 12.4 million (I wanted to factor in is extension)
Shawn Marion or his replacement – 7.0 million….Either the sign & trade, MLE or resign
Jose – 8.2 million
Delfino = 4.5 million
1st Draft pick = 2.2 million
2nd Draft pick = 1.2 million
Reggie Evans = 5.0 million
Banks = 4.5 million
Kris H. = 3.2Million
P. O'Bryant/Roko Ukic = 3 million
Nathan Jawai = 0.7 million

Again numbers are just estimation put it gives us what we can look at if CB4 signs for max. Without any trade the above team is a slight above mediocre - 2nd round playoff at its best.

In 2010/2011 we have about 13-14 millions coming off the books all free agents. That is about 10 million dollars to add a solid player to the core of CB4, AB and Jose. Assuming our draft pick(s) develop into solid starters bye year two (DD or Evans pleaseeee…) I think this teams could be really competing in two years depend on who we spend the money on in 2011.

Thus, signing CB4 to max is not bad as it seems. When we actually break it down it not as bad as people thinks. It can work and I have fate it BC that if we resign CB4 he has to make the right moves.

Now if CB4 indicates he does not want to sign that I’m all for trading him. Also please stop comparing CB4 to Lebron, Kobe or Wade. There are different players playing different position. Chris is who he his a young, athletic face up PF who can consistently give you 22/10, average passer and has potentially to improve is defense, back to the basket post game and leadership. And in my eyes he is worth the max.

When is BC's contract up? You'd figure he would try to accomplish his goals before the end of that contract. I think it would be wise to look at this as the team's "window."
As for the draft, you try to get the best player available who is ready to contribute.

I suspect there are trades in the works contingent on whose drafted where. Additionally, for a team drafting later in the draft, does it make sense to draft potential or turn that salary expenditure into a known commodity that is sure to help you in some way (Humphries)? Given how quickly the Lakers were turned around and the Celtics became champions, along with the economic environment, I wonder if we're about to see a shift in the approach to team building...try your best to maximize your team's performance over a two or three year span and if it doesn't work start over (the Florida Marlins baseball team model comes to mind). So for all of us worrying about being handcuffed by a maximized Bosh..you could always trade him in 2011/2012 if the team is not projecting to a championship contender.

Other questions... Does Roko even factor into team plans at all? Can Joey Graham be turned into something different and more consistently useful?

Things will be interesting over the next few weeks

That workout list is a buzzkill, was expecting a last-minute "battle royale" between DeRonzen, Henderson, S.Young (Cause he never did made it back).

Blanco: 1) No 2)No 3)Too Old
RE: Bosh Trade, The Rashard Lewis sign and trade netted a first round pick. Same with the Tmac to ORL. If that was the paltry return for Bosh, I'd rather BC trade him this offseason, EVEN if the deal is mostly expiring contracts, one prospect, and picks. However, (from Realgm) Chris Sheridan (ESPN) was on the Gameplan and stated the Raps would gain a good return in a sign and trade. So who knows? One thing to keep in mind, is that in addition to Bosh we're also building our case to any FA we throw money at in 2010. That is why I'm against a Bosh Trade during the season. It would cause enough upheaval to send our season straight into the tank. And that kind of disarray isn't the best environment for the development of youngsters like Bargs, Ukic, or Mystery Lottery pick #9. They aren't vets, and they wouldn't be able to adjust on the fly to the tactical changes bringing in new players mid-season requires. Either trade him before or trade him in a sign and trade after.

BrianG: I think BC overvalues Bosh, in part, due to the trouble he's had bring people to this marketplace. J's posting from that season ticket conference affirms that. BC may see any price as the right price. If you're a team committed to not going over the tax a max contract thrown at Bosh gets ugly real fast. According to Dave from nbaroundtable.wordpress.com:

Max offer (other team w 8.5% increases per year)
y1 = 18m/y5 = 24.5
Max offer (Raps w 10.5% increases/year) y1 = 18m/y6 = 29.7m.

Note:
-assumes a cap (not tax) figure of 60m in 2010
-can locate full article by typing "extension" in his site's search form.
-the salary escalates so quickly that keeping Bosh and trading him after the first season isn't viable. Few teams would be able to take on such a salary, and you would be taking back a large amount of garbage in any transaction.

not sure how reliable they are, but nbadraft.net has Toronto taking Gerald Henderson with the ninth pick with the following explaination.

"Toronto has Derozan coming in for a workout on Tuesday. Apparently he is attending the workout but not thrilled with the idea of playing across the border. The Raptors may be forced to look for someone who is, and Henderson might be the guy for them."

Jordanfanatic, great breakdown, i'm with you.

Rumor has it that Atlanta is selling Speedy Claxton and the 19th pick. Would this solve our backup PG issues and give us another first round pick at the same time?

Speedy has been injured a lot but he atually came back late last season. Anyone knows if he's still got game? At the very least he's an expiring contract who can push Roko to compete for back up minutes.

If he's fuly recovered and can play next season, I'd do this in a heart beat.

J - Just came back from the workouts and I'm not sure where Draft.net got their info from.

Yes, I think there's a strong possibility that Henderson could be Toronto's pick at 9.

No, after talking to him it doesn’t sound like he cares where he plays and in fact, talked about being a good fit with TO. Yes, could be the PC type answer but as you’ll hear/read in tomorrow’s recap, he got pretty candid with me about some other topics, including of course the finish to Duke’s season.

Henderson looked pretty good today, his crossover is just lethal, and while he still goes left a lot, he’s going to be tough one-on-one because of his athleticism.

His shooting was spotty though and really, the best player I thought today was Jerel McNeal. Kid can just score at will and schooled Henderson a number of times in 3-on-3 action.

Other notes:

-Apparently Curry has declined to work out for the Raps.
-Washington is shopping their pick and causing some havoc for teams below them in terms of planning.
-DeRozan is finally in tomorrow for an individual session.
-Raps still want to bring in a few more guys before the draft for a look so there might be another run on Monday.

Franchise, you are on point. Thanks for the update!

I'm assuming Curry opted out because he doesn't think he'll be around for us to pick.

just reading the chard ford chat and he mentions that detroit might be willing to move their 15th pick as well as Amir Johnson; so they can have room to sign ben gordon and boozer.

I recall you guys doing a piece on amir johnson a few years ago. Is he a young guy you think can help the team still? Or has his ship sailed? And if so what would be needed to get the deal done?

I prefer that Detroit 15th pick + A. Johnson way better than Atlanta's scenerio. The problem is we don't need another PF unless we trade Hump and forget abt bringing back Pops, which isnt a bad idea.

I also wonder what they'd want in that deal. I'm guessing not vey much back since they're trying to save money.

15th pick+Amir Johnson
for
3mil Cash + Jawia

I second that motion; picking up #15 from Detroit plus another frontcourt player would be ideal. All they want back, I blieve, are non-guaranteed contracts so they can clear space.

Also, there's a report out there that Washington might be willing to move Jamison to Cleveland for cap space (Wallace/Pavlovic). This tells me two things: (1) They are looking to pick Jordan Hill at #5 and (2) the Raptors should be able to swing abigger deal for Jamison and the pick if they're willing to move Bosh.

Rob

PS-Curry wants to go to NY, and they're trying to maneouvre so that he ends up there; they also skipped Minnesota who's slotted at #6. Personally, I'd love to see the Knicks draft Curry and another top 8 team take Jennings because then we're sure to have one of Derozan/Evans fall into our laps.

HEDO!

I just hope BC reads these posts and pays extra special attention to MY post. BC, son, sign Hedo, just sign him. I can't speak for all the other moves you're going to do, but all I have to say is bring Hedo to Toronto. Huge upgrade at the 2/3 - much more valuable than Marion and his greedy attitude.

Thank you, Mr. Sitting Duck.
Nick

Member29, that is an absolute dream scenario. Amir Johnson is another guy I would love to have, plus, with that pick, we could go after a guy like Lawson. It would make Roko expendable, but that's just fine with me, as I see Lawson as a guy the Raps could really use. Someone with the strength to get to the line, and the pedigree not to flame out.

Brian G – Thanks for the props and while I respect Doug for his background and experience, I too find the same things about him, particularly in terms of his attitude, and that’s one of the reasons we started this site back in the day. It’s frustrating to see him act like this too as while I know the NBA season can be a grind on a beat reporter, there are many of us out there that would kill for his job, and who have fought tooth and nail to gain half of his access, all the while working numerous other random jobs to pay the bills. What exacerbates the situation for me, is in these draft settings when everything seems to be a joke. Meanwhile, you have college kids on the court playing for their future. I get his point – these settings don’t tell the Raps much they don’t already know. But at the same time there’s no need to openly mock the proceedings essentially.

Yardly – The workout list was a bit of a buzzkill. I too thought Young would be in but was skeptical about DeRozan. Jim Kelly spoke to us about probably bringing in some more guys next week so you have to wonder who’s left. It sounds like they’re going to try and get a look at Evans but who knows if his agent will allow it. And other than Brandon Jennings, everyone else in their "range" they’ve already seen or probably won’t show because they expect to go top 8.

Blanco – Interesting question on T Mac and it depends on a few things, including if T Mac can even play effectively next year with his numerous surgeries. The idea of course would be to clear space but it would admittedly be nice to get something of value in return – especially if you’re not sold on NBA Free Agents wanting to come to TO.

As for Jamison, I like him but would rather see a 2 or 3 who can create off the bounce.

AND FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME, JUST SAY NO TO HEDO.

You want to know why? Well besides my rants the past few weeks, check this link by Kelly Dwyer of Yahoo Sports:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie?author=Kelly+Dwyer

after wathching youtube videos of demar derozan and gerald henderson i have a feeling demar might end up like GERALD GREEN so we should just take HENDERSON INSTEAD

I have a question. Why not take the money you would have to give to Hedo and/or Marion and throw it at Ariza and some other FA swings(Von Wafer for example)? Everyone is focusing on Hedo or Tmac when there are other players who can give you 70 % of what they can give but at like 10% of the cost. Just seems to me that 5 mil to Ariza makes more sense then 10 mil to Marion or Hedo.

Delfino!

DeRozan's a better prospect than Gerald Green, if only because he actually has a skill (a mid range jumper) to go with his athleticism. But other than that, he hasn't shown me enough to warrant picking him if he doesn't want to be here. I'm still hoping Flynn will be there at #9, but if he's not I can see the Raps going with Henderson

McGateway, I am 100% with you on that. We should go after Ariza hard, but it will take more than the mid-level to get him to T.O. If he's going to leave the Lakers it'll be because the Raps gave him 7mil per season (on a 5 year deal); some may say that's overpaying. However, those same people want to throw that money at Marion (for 3 years) who is older, puts up marginally better numbers (on a worse team) and can't shoot.

I think a guy like Ariza will end up being worth more than the next contract he signs; sort of like JR Smith. Remember when BC offered Kapono for Smith and was rejected by the Nuggets?

That was one of those times when the pot should have been sweetened and a deal done. I think it's the same thing with Ariza. Sweeten the pot (contract wise) until it becomes untenable for him to refuse, and it still works financially for the Raps; like I said, 35 million on a 5 year deal.

Rob

I like Ariza, he'll fit well here and he's exactly what we need. Can we offer him more than the Lakers tho? I think even if w go hard after him, the Lakers will go harder and who do you think he'll choose. I love the idea of Ariza playing here but I don't think it's realistic.

Ariza is a great role player that rounds out a quality team lake the Lakers nicely. He is not our savior and is not what we need right now. Role players like him fit well when you have the talent but are just missing a piece of the puzzle. Tying up our money on him will not get us where we need to get.

Heard BC on the radio this morning...he pretty much said he is for sure going to sign and trade bosh instead of trading him before the season or during.

Here's the link to the BC interview:

http://www.fan590.com/ondemand/media.jsp?content=20090617_073349_9160