RaptorsHQ at the Pre-Draft Workouts – Day 2

by RaptorsHQ - Archives on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT in NBA Draft

Williams talks to the media yesteday in round two of the pre-draft workouts...

I’m sure to most of the media in attendance at yesterday’s pre-draft workouts, these types of events are old hat.

There’s only so many times that a prospect can say he thinks he’d be a good fit for the Raptors, and only so many times you can ask said prospect what he feels he can contribute to a team.

However for myself, and all of us at the HQ in fact, having only had access to these events for the past few seasons, this never gets old.

Part of the reason is because unlike the folks at the Star, Globe and Post etc, we watch college ball with as much religious fervor as we do the NBA, so when these prospects come in to work out, we’ve got questions for days for nearly all of them.

The other reason is a bit more esoteric; there’s just something indefinable about standing in a gym surrounded by the Raptors brass, watching college kids who for most of their lives, each were "the man," now having to dump egos aside and grind it out with the rest of the one time studs.

Yesterday’s collection of "grinders?"

There was no Robert Dozier, whose flight out of Carolina was cancelled, but the group included Australian big-man Joe Ingles, Temple guard Dionte Christmas, Michigan defensive stopper Jevohn Shepherd, Durham College attendee Anthony Batchelor, North Carolina alum Danny Green and the center piece of the workout, Louisville uber-athlete Terrence Williams.

So how did everyone look?

Williams and Green stood out during the time in which we were able to observe. Green is a bit of an Anthony Parker, "do a bit of everything" type, and isn’t someone who’s going to shy away from a little grunt work. He’s got good range on his shot, which was on full display today, is a good albeit not great athlete, a solid defender, and someone who knows what it takes to win. I expect to see Green go late in the first round but there’s no question that if he falls into the second, it wouldn’t be a stretch to see Toronto make a play for him. This marks two years in a row that Colangelo has brought Green in for a look, (last year of course he withdrew before the deadline and returned to win a championship with Lawson, Hansbrough and the rest of the Tar Heels), so there is obvious interest on the Dinos’ part. And to give you an idea of Green’s heart and work ethic, last year when the Raps had him in he was suffering from multiple injuries and yet still wanted to participate in the workout. Considering that most prospects back out of workouts for mere scratches, tales like these speak volumes.

Danny Green one-on-one with Terrence Williams

As for Williams, he was in top form.

He’s in great shape having worked out with Gary Payton since the end of the college season, his shot mechanics look better and better, and he’s still as dominant as ever athletically.

The Raptors ran the prospects through an interesting drill where one player would have to defend each of the other five individuals in turn. Only when the defensive player got a stop or rebounded a missed shot, did the next player take their turn attacking. If the defender committed a foul or failed to gain the possession, the two would go at it again until a stop was made, or the offensive player scored. Each of the six individuals yesterday took their turn defending the other five and of the group, Williams dominated every player he was matched up with from an offensive standpoint, from Green to the taller Ingles. He settled for a jump shot once but otherwise simply attacked off the bounce using his superior quickness and athleticism. (Sidebar – it was interesting to hear the Raptors’ brass continuously yelling for players "not to settle" in this drill. Think BC is looking for someone who’s going to attack the basket?) Williams is also extremely strong as even if the defender managed to get Terrence to pick up his dribble, Williams would simply put his shoulder into his man and power through to the hoop or out-jump his man in order to drop-in a baby-hook.

Defensively, Williams excelled as well locking down almost everyone from Green to the much taller Ingles. Only on one occasion did Williams fall for the fake, unfortunately resulting in a dunk.

Unfortunately, the one time Williams got beat resulted in this cram...

However as much as we are fans of Williams’ game, he’s still got some work to do. His shot looks much improved from a standstill position (he was nearly automatic in drills from beyond the arc), however in motion, he still struggles with consistent form. Considering that the Raptors hardly need another long-range threat however, I’m not sure that’s so much of a concern. A bigger concern in my books is his ball-handling. Williams is virtually unstoppable on one-bounce plays to the rim, but you could see yesterday that he still has trouble creating off the dribble, as his handle just isn’t where it needs to be yet for an NBA slasher.

You can catch most of my chat with Williams via this clip on Raptors.com however what you won’t catch, is that he was the last player yesterday to speak with the press as Bryan Colangelo kept him aside after the workouts had concluded, and spoke one-on-one with the former Louisville star for a good 15minutes.

Does this mean he’s a lock to be Toronto’s pick at nine? (If that’s indeed where they end up picking from.)

Hardly.

However I’d place a lot of money on a bet that Terrence is one of a handful of players that Colangelo and co are keeping that much closer of an eye on during this process, and that we’ll see him return to work out again with some of this year’s bigger names later in June.

And will we be seeing a return from any of the other players who participated yesterday?

I doubt it, although of the group, Dionte Christmas might have a shot. He’s certainly not the 6-5 he’s listed at (note – the heights that Green and Williams are listed at ring true in person) but he’s an explosive scorer who lit it up from long-range in the various one-on-one and three-on-three drills. It’s hard to say if he’s a true 1 in this league, and looks to be too small to play the 2, but I expect that even if Christmas doesn’t hear his name called on draft night, he’ll easily find a spot on a summer league squad.

I don’t expect any of yesterday’s Canadian content to be selected in June but that doesn’t mean they won’t find a niche playing pro ball. Shepherd displayed his defensive abilities in drills and looks to be a lock to play with team Canada in the near future. He should also get a solid amount of interest from overseas. It’s hard to know what to make of Batchelor as while he struggled a bit yesterday, he’s had a great career at Durham as a scorer so should draw international interest as well.

The last player from yesterday’s sextet was Australian Joe Ingles, a very intriguing prospect. Ingles nearly declared last year but decided to withdraw in the end in order to beef up his game for this year’s draft. He’s incredibly long and at 6-7, has great size for the 2 guard spot, apparently the position he mostly plays, and is quite skilled offensively. I was a bit leery of his ability to play a guard position at first glance, wondering if his game wasn’t better suited for the 3 or 4, however in drills, he was absolutely lethal from long-range and also displayed some great one-on-one moves, at one point beating a much smaller and quicker defender and cramming it down. Ingles will need to bulk up a bit but I wouldn’t be surprised to see a team taking a flyer on him late in the second-round and stashing him overseas for a while.

It was too bad that Robert Dozier didn’t make it as his length and athleticism would have made for some interesting battles between he and Williams and Green. Jim Kelly however assured the media that like Sam Young, Dozier would be back later on.

With that, it sounds like the Raptors are done in regards to workouts until June. Evidently this was a chance to get some of the better seniors in early as sometimes late in the process, politics and agents get too heavily involved.

Also, just a note too on how exhausting these workouts are. Terrence Williams made an interesting point in my earlier conversation with him that there’s a big difference between working out in a gym by yourself, and being in these settings.

"When you’re working out at the gym, there’s no coaches in there, you feel you’re going hard, but you tend to go at your own pace. When you’re here with the GM and the head coach here, you tend to run more, even if it’s just to get some water."

That being said, as tired as Williams was, he showed just how competitive he can be. As I’ve mentioned before, you can never make snap judgments about players in these settings, however there are certain pieces of minutia that do tend to stand out.

In the last drill of the day, the Raptors had all six players doing as many baseline to baseline laps as they could within a three-minute time-span. Joe Ingles raced out to an early lead while Williams was lagging quite far behind the rest of the group. At first glance, it looked like he was dogging it a bit – after all, the last drill of the day that failed to involve anything directly related to basketball was hardly going to decide your draft fate right? However with about a minute left I looked back up and suddenly, Williams was right back with the rest of the pack! And once about 15 seconds was left on the clock, Williams suddenly turned on the reserves and began an all-out sprint, just missing finishing ahead of the rest of the group.

This is the sort of thing you like to see in these settings. Last year I watched players like Marreese Speights waltz through the workouts and it hardly was an encouraging sign. Williams could easily have done the same considering he was by far the most highly touted of yesterday’s group, however even in something as simple as running laps, he wanted to finish at the top of the pile.

It's this type of intensity and competitive spirit that Toronto needs a lot more of, especially from the bench and again, that’s why even though most of the prospect scouting is done over the course of players’ careers, seeing them up close in these settings still goes a long way in filling in the blanks.

FRANCHISE

Williams reacts to Franchise's question about blogging for the HQ next year...

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Very nice post man.

by Arsenalist on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

So I’m comparing the coverage in this HQ post to this:

http://www.thestar.com/article/633416

How does it feel to have destroyed the coverage provided by Doug Smith and the Toronto Star? If you cover basketball for a living, you should at least watch the sport at the college level occasionally in order to inform these type of articles (because I'm really interested in the guy from Durham College, not Terrence Williams).

by Geoff on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I am curious about this workout process. If the Raps have the ninth pick or better, why do they look at these players who are much farther down the draft list according to all the mock drafts on the net?. Do we have a second pick?

by Rt on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Rt -

The Raps brass is just covering all bases. Don't put too much stock into the mocks, sometimes teams see things that others don't (aka Jason Thompson), so the Raps are going to want to see as many players as they can.

The Raps don't have a second round pick but could easily trade or buy their way into the second round to get a guy if he falls or is someone who impressed.

by HOWLAND on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Phenomenal coverage guys.

Curious if BC was perhaps fishing out the straight dope on T-Will's "off court issues"

Where would you rate his handles on a 1to10 scale? Was the poor showing solely because on his weak left hand?
Did he have advanced moves?
How much separation was there between him and Green?

by dileroscoe on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

First off – thanks to all for the props – always a favourite time of the year for us and we love bringing back as detailed reports as possible from these events considering the local media doesn’t really care for the most part…which segue ways to your comment Geoff – think you summarized what many of us here have felt for a long time, and again the rationale behind the start of the HQ about four years ago. Local media still doesn’t get it for the most part. That’s why it’s great that there are so many solid Raptors’ blogs out there to fill the void.

Rt – As Howland mentioned, it’s due diligence on behalf of the Raps at this point in time and really, this is a year where after the top 3 or 4 guys, anyone could go anywhere. The draft is all about "beauty in the eye of the beholder" so if there’s someone the Raps have taken a good look at who falls further than they projected, they’ve done their homework on the prospect and may therefore want to secure a second-round or late first-round pick.

Dileroscoe – Great question and actually, I should have just asked Terrence what he and BC were discussing. I’m sure we wouldn’t have gotten the whole story, but you’re right, my impression was that BC was trying to get a feel for Williams off the court. Handles on a scale of 1 to 10? I’d say he’s about at the Shawn Marion level and ironically, there’s a lot of comparisons to be made between these two. Williams is a solid ball-handler like Marion in terms of controlling the offence or leading the break – it’s more in the one-on-one settings that he struggles to create space. For instance in the one-on-one drills, he rarely put the ball on the floor choosing to simply jab and go to the rim. That of course is going to be a lot harder in the NBA when there are shot-blockers and other defenders helping when a man gets beat. That’s not to say he can’t improve, but the one time while I was there that he tried to create off the dribble he lost the ball out of bounds. In terms of separation between him and Green, it depends. Athletically and in terms of upside, there’s no comparison – Williams is miles ahead. But Green I’d argue is the more polished product in many areas and therefore if you put both into an NBA situation right now, I’m not sure there’d be much difference. Perhaps though that speaks more to just how equal the talent level in this draft is after the top few players…

by Franchise on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Great article. Much enjoyed, it's very interesting to hear how the prospects are doing in workouts.

by Dave on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Wow - if this is the type of coverage we can expect for the rest of the draft stuff its going to be unreal. Great job hq!!!!

by fromlongrange on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

So is that realy a picture of you and Williams. I thought you would be taller and older.

by mremann48 on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Talking about media coverage and competence, there is an article on the sun telling that Triano priority net year is.... to limit the number of conclusions Bargnani takes and not as saying he has to drive more, just highlighting he has had a free pass on what he was doing and that HAS TO STOP!

by renato on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

mremann48 - ha ha - yeah, slightly under 5-10 which is why it was funny to see guys like Tyrese Rice listed at 6 feet up close. Who are they kidding?

And just turned 30 this past year so don't worry - that means another good 30 or so years of RapsHQ ha ha.

On another note, I missed last night's game thanks to the TSN2 fiasco but are the Magic not the Raptors Part II? Pure jump-shooting club so when the shots don't fall, the offense dries up.

And Dwight Howard needs to simmer down. As Kelly Dwyer pointed out, Howard's post-game is about as refined as Patrick O'Bryant's.

by Franchise on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Sweet article as usual. I really get the feeling that you guys are one of us, and that's awesome.

There was a competing Raptor site from a couple of years ago, that was quite good. But as soon as the blogger got an offer for a "real" job with Sympatico Sports On-line or whatever, the guy sold out and ditched his site. (I'm sure some of you remember this...maybe the guy works for ESPN for all I know....just saying thanks HQ for keeping it real, you guys realized that your site might become your "real" job.)

Anyway, I don't watch college ball anymore, so I enjoy getting your guy's take on these players. Peace.

by DayOner on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

ok, let's all come clean as Franchise did, how tall is everybody on this blog?

I am 6´4 (and no, I did not jump enough nor had good handles and neither Basketball IQ so, pls Brian, leave me alone)

by renato on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Renato - I'm about 5'9" or so. Being of Hong Kong descent doesn't help :p

by Vicious D on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I am 6'3" but just as someone said about Big Country, there is more air under plymouth rock.

by BOWG on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I'm 6'2, but I grew up in the country, which means I got to play a lot of Center, because of the smaller population.

Our high school team would have to cut like 3 guys per year; it was kind of sad.....one year instead of cutting this dude, they made him water boy which was kind of even more cruel.

That's Uxbridge, baby. Our football team played on a field beside a cow field, and cows would be over mooing during the game, it was awesome to see the "city" Oshawa teams laughing their asses off.

by DayOner on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Great article Franchise.

Every time I see you or think of you having access to this kind of stuff, I get excited for you. Not that you guys are not deserving, you all do a great job. I just know how much you love the game and the organization.

by JBen on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

6'0, but my rasta hair makes me look 6'1, i take the increase where i can get it.

by Member29 on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

on a total tangent... but I watching Mavs Nugs and can't help but think we are pretty lucky to have Devlin and Armstrong (not saying either is perfect though), because aside from the TNT and ABC crews (who are tops), the filler you found in the first round (the homers from Portland come to mind) are more than annoying (I cringe when NBA TV takes over!).

And really, am I the only one who thinks PJ Carlesimo sounds like Super Dave?!

Devlin should have it in his contract that Jack is always his wingman, or riding sidecar, or whatever cliche you prefer.

by lessthanzero on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

This is the funniest discussion - ok, coming clean - im an nba 6 feet aka 5 10.

And lessthanzero - laughing my ass off at the super dave reference!!! I was going with louie anderson (remember when he hosted family feud??) but thats perfect!

by fromlongrange on May 13, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

If that is the case i am the shortest I am only 5'7". Mind you i am a filipino so in my country i am considered tall. I have always enjoyed reading this site and always looking forward to your topics and insights. can't wait for the draft.

by mremann48 on May 14, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Franchise is a shorty! Put me in the group over 6'. You can also put me in the group over 6' that never could dunk.

by HOWLAND on May 14, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Im 5'10" so i could prob play point guard for the mavericks lol

by mike rapfan on May 14, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Great coverage guys!! Lovin it.

I've been awol for a while so hopefully I'm not dredging up anything that you guys have already been over at nausium....but after the NCAA tourney I came away AMAZED at the talent of Tyreke Evans.... I know he looks somewhat disinterested at times, but WOW, what a natural scorer.

Just wondering if you have any insights Franchise.

Keep up the great job guys!!!

by mcclarky on May 14, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I'm 6'3", with the wingspan of someone 6'6". A classic tweener, I'm not athletic enough for the 3, not strong enough for the 4 or 5 (though that is always where I end up playing in my office pickup league - usually forced to guard the 6'5" 280lb monster from IT), not a good enough shooter for the 2, and I can't handle the ball well enough for the 1.

I have a mean behind the back pass that catches someone off-guard once a game, a cross-over move that works one or twice a year, and a decent baby sky hook I've been working on since I fell in love with Kareem and the Showtime Lakers.

I first fell in love with Raptors HQ back when it was a blue and white background discussing the off-season aquisition of Jorge Garbajosa, and I've been a daily junkie ever since.

I don't miss Marcia though.

by Bedhead on May 14, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I kinda miss Marcia. Haven't heard that name in a while haha. I remeber KeyonClark used to hit on her. haha!

I'm 5'9 but you'll be surprised with my hops. Used to have quick first step and quick ups for those rebounds that make taller guys go "how did he get that?". but bad habits, lack of playing time, and being out of shape in general have all but diminished that. Sucks to say that at 24 =(

by Aaron on May 14, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

am 5 feet 11 and a half, with some crazy hops and usually on my basketball team i play 2,3and 4lol

by mobchester on May 14, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I am a white guy of 5'.10"
5'.6" after hair cut lol

can't play a lick coached many teams

Women like the 5'.6" 120 lbs version the best lol

by Davl on May 14, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Great article once again!

I'll describe my height in terms of NBA height: I'm 6'2 however when I put on shoes it makes me 6'3.5 which the leauge would round up for 6'4. However the NBA also always inflates height so I'm guessing I'm really 6'5. Imagine that I just grew 3 inches in about 10 seconds....its like I'm back in grade 8.

On a side note which of the Louisville players would you rather have on the Raptors: Earl Clarke or Terrance Williams? Draftexpress has the seperated by two spots....NBAdraft.net has a major difference however that is also the same site that had Ivan Chiriaev going number 3 in the draft...

by wtf on May 14, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Doc Rivers

Complains about the 31-13 foul numbers in post game. If the C's did not play hack a Howard the numbers would be closer....Give Me a break!

Don't like Magic jump shooting team!

What did I just say about the Raps????????

by Davl on May 15, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I was reading Doug Smith’s Blog recently and he suggested that we might have an opportunity to sign and trade Marion for players like, Deng, Monta Ellis, Butler etc. I was just thinking that if we were to acquire Ellis for Marion (GSW recently said they are in the market for a SF that can defend and rebound primarily) we should attempt to keep Bosh and go into the season with Bargs, Calderon, Ellis & Bosh as the core and see what the results look like.

The more I think about the makeup of the team, the more I feel we just need that creative SG to average 18-22ppg along with Bosh and Bargs usual contribution to be consistently competitive. If we acquired Ellis by using Marion I would propose we attempt to have a strong 2009/10 season with him on the team and hopefully convince Bosh to stay. Failure to acquire an 18-22ppg SG in my opinion would mean we trade Bosh now while his value is stable instead of turning him off of Toronto by having another losing season in 2009/10.

In other words, Marion for Ellis = Keep Bosh for at least the first half of next season and see what the results look like;but

No Ellis or elite SG = trade Bosh this summer while his value is stable eg:

Bosh & Banks
for
C- Biedrins @ 11.5 rpg & 11ppg
SF - Maggette @ 18ppg & veteran leadership
SG – Azubuike@16-20ppg & excellent defence
( GSW choice of Wright, Bellinelli, Randolph, Turiaf or Draft Pick)

Anyone else agree?

by Member29 on May 15, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions