Tip-In, Toronto Raptors’ Post-Game: The Anti-Raptors

Franchise, very accurate description of our current situation. I wrote my comments before reading this so forgive me for repeating some things:
Just a quick note about yesterday’s game. Our bench scored a total of 16pts while Von Wafer alone scored 14 and let’s not even talk about Laundry’s 22. Now I admit that’s a huge contribution from Houston’s bench and those guys don’t perform that way every night but it does show the difference in their overall talent compared to ours. Our starting line up was better than theirs for most of the game but as soon as we started making subs and they started making subs, the balance of the game swung. Our core group desperately needs a consistent SG to average no less than 16pts/gm but it’s the bench that needs an overhaul. All of our core group played well last night but where was the bench? Our overall lack of depth and talent is particularly evident on nights when the core group doesn’t play well because again, we often ask the question, where was the bench? As the season progresses I’m beginning to see this team’s current starting line-up is reasonably competitive with a big hole in the SG position, but it’s the massive drop off of talent after the core group that’s going to continue to be our downfall.
Finally, I am impressed with Bargs defence against the centers he’s faced over the last few games, look back at his positioning in the post, his stance and footwork at the beginning of the year compared to now, there is a huge improvement. He does the exact exact same things in terms of positioning as JO does. Anyone else notice that? The time spent practicing with JO may have helped him tremendously. I think he’s played pretty good defence lately.

Colangelo should trade Bosh this summer (for Al Jefferson?)... leave marion and sign Ron Artest or Ben Gordon

Maybe we're missing Kris Humphries. Can someone look up Minnesota Gophers game tape and assess how good Humphries was in college? Imagine if Humphries had not been injured and been given the space to play as Graham has been how much of a grit competitor he would be to this team? Early in the pre-season many commented on how he was playing the best and I wonder how things might have worked out in terms of big man depth if Humphries and Jawai had better health situations

One last comment on last night’s game, I think last night’s game is a poster for what we can expect from this team next year if BC indeed brings back pretty much the same players as he indicated last month. Franchise said it above, all of our core players played well and look at the end result. If you print the box score as it is on NBA.COM and highlight the rebound, assist, and point stats it reads exactly what our best case scenario will be next year. You couldn’t ask Bosh, Bargs, Calderon (16asst) &Marion to do anything more than they did. Of the three games on this trip, last night’s was the most telling. If BC thinks he’s got it all figured out and the addition of Delfino makes us better next yr, he’s dead wrong and last night was a great example of why.

not only does our team suck, but so does the coverage - this morning doug smith wrote in his recap that bargs and bosh outplayed ming and scola.

I cannot agree more about the hole at the 2 as Parker's 3 points is just not good enough. Yes he grabbed 8 boards but he needs to provide more consistent scoring if this team is to have a chance each night (especially with Bosh and Calderon playing hurt). Joey and Kapono's contributions were not horrible (7 points each is not a lot but it is acceptable) but no one else provided any scoring at all and I think that is what really hurts this team. Unfortunately I was unable to watch the game as adhtv(or whatever its called) wasn't working last night, so I can only go by the box score.
I am really not sure what people are expecting in a trade for Bosh. Realistically, do you really think the Raptors are going to get everything they need in a trade for Bosh, considering he can opt out of his contract after next season and any team that trades for him will be unwilling to give much up for a player who may only stick around for a year? I am starting to think that we have no choice but to ride out his contract and hope that this team somehow improves next year (maybe with some smarter signings from BC to fill out the bench) as I just do not see anyone bailing Toronto out of the current mess they are in. If someone knows for a fact that a team exists that could solve all of our problems (or even most of them) with a single trade for Bosh and would actually make the deal, I would love to hear it. About the only thing I could come up with which might be a move in the right direction would be Bosh to NY for David Lee and Nate Robinson and even that trade might result in us having to take on Curry's or Jared Jeffries contracts as well before they would pull the trigger.

One more thing as I am a little confused about how buy-outs work. For example, why doesn't NY just buy out Curry and take the immediate luxury tax hit for the rest of this season? I know Dolan's doesn't want to get killed with a huge luxury tax hit but that shipped sailed and if they bought Curry out of the remainder of his deal now they would free up enough space going forward to more than make up for what it would cost them. Is there a rule that prevents a team from buying out a multi-year contract and simply taking a short term luxury tax hit (do they have to spread the buyout package over multiple years or do teams just do that)?

Part of me says trade bosh for some high draft picks, put a four story picture of bargnani on the side of the ACC and be done with it...

but then I think, damn our frontcourt is pretty good, the rest of the starters are starter quality, and it really shouldn't be all that tough to shore up the bench next year, even if it just means bringing back rasho, delfino and garbo who all could arguably be had this summer...

fromlongrange:

bargs definitely outplayed ming no question he even played some really good defence and bosh was bosh so the reporting was that quite off the mark

Nice write up Franchise, very interesting quotes from Marion and Bosh. There have been a lot of quotes from Bosh this year that has made me frustrated. A lot of things that he says and ways that he acts indicate a lack of psychological resiliency, and a maladjusted response to adverse situations: perceptions which would be reflected in the fact that he bombed the calliper test. However, then I think to when I play sports, and the pressure I feel when even three people have come to watch me play…

Really, while Bosh has not impressed me much this year, he has not been horrible all things considered. And There have been a fair bit of challenges in his way. He has not responded well to these challenges, but he is young, and there is nothing to say that surrounded by a better supporting cast, when he can

I mean, the guy is coming in and putting up 20/10. From his perspective, I imagine he feels very discouraged by the fact that he does that and the team still doesn’t win. Obviously I feel he can contribute more than he has been, and his passiveness has hurt the team on many occasions. However, I also empathize with his struggles (which are transparent for all to see). And as Axl says, ", damn our frontcourt is pretty good, the rest of the starters are starter quality, and it really shouldn't be all that tough to shore up the bench next year".

Bosh is so young and when surrounded by talented and complementary players, than he can live up to his billing as one of the best PF’s in the league.

Today, I do not feel we are in such a bad position. Whether we make a play off run and fall short, or end up in the lottery or whatever, I do not feel we are so poorly positioned long term. Given a full year with a good system and I think Marion, Bosh and Bargs will prove to be one better front-courts in the league. Already their productivity has been great since the Marion Trade.
The main sticking point is whether they can play cohesively on defence, a difficult matter which is exasperated by the porous defence form our guards.

>>
If BC thinks he’s got it all figured out and the addition of Delfino makes us better next yr, he’s dead wrong and last night was a great example of why.>>

Delfino, a Draft pick and the MLF’nE son.

I think you may be forgetting about the DP and the MLE. I’m not really expecting the DP to contribute much next year (if he does: gravy), but the MLE can bring in a considerable talent up-grade. (Plus we could still being in some at least partially useful bench depth with the LLE.) I’m not saying those upgrades will make us a title contender, but it will make us deeper and more competitive.

We are still one or two significant improvements away from title contention, and that is assuming most of our pieces realize most of their potential. But at least we are in a situation where we are more competitive while BC grinds out those moves.

/// Anyone else not totally against the idea of resting Caldy and Bosh for the rest of the season? I’m sure most people who are not MLSE ownership are fairly open to the suggestion.

My editor has been fired. So hard to find good help these days.

As far as the draft goes, Toronto needs to draft only a certain type of player and that would be the best available ballhandling scorer. We do not need another 4 as we already have at least two. The best example is Mayo from last years draft

Here we GO again….Trade Bosh story…CB4 has no impact talks.

A front court of CB4 and AB can give you 40 to 50 points ever game even if Chris is not 100%. So let see CB4 and AB are both young, work well together on the floor offensively, could be offensive monsters with a solid coach and a good system and we want to Trade Bosh for draft picks and other players from a losing team.

Not only is this stupid but it would be the wrong move for so many other reason.

I will say it over and over Bosh and AB is not the problem. Offensively they both can achieve all-star level defensively they got work to do especially help defensive. Always late, too early and over helping….blah blah blah ….broken record as usual

Over-reaction again, as Franchise pointed out it the same old story…What the hell did some of you guys expect this current roster with AP and Crap-no-Kaponoo, Voskuhl and a growing Roko. Come on….please you guys are much smarter than this!?!

I totally understand the frustration I have been there myself as a fan and as a player not on a professional level but losing is losing and it sucks. I don’t care if you are been paid 20 million dollar a year or a bag of chips at the end of the day losing really hurts. It is obvious that the passion has left CB4. He wasn’t a passionate player to begin with but even CB4 would celebrate and enjoy a good ‘and-1’ play ever no and again. Now he just looks at the score and hang is head – not great leadership but I feel the guy pain. Also prove that Bosh is still 24 and still has much to learn.

I love the line "Toronto is essentially a one-trick pony and so if the can force contested jumpers, they have a good shot at giving the Raptors the L" So true it is painful to watch!

AP, Crap-no-Kaponoo, Jose and oh wait this almost our team the rest is not even worth mentioning are all jump shooters. Bosh and AB is a solid core to build around. Even Jose aka My Hammy when healthy is a solid part of the core. I won’t discuss Jose because it will take a book just to explain this season regarding him. I going to give him the benefit and say he is not 100% but ‘god’ dam he is a pylon on defense. It the second most frustrating thing to watch than Crap-no-Kaponoo getting more then 5 minutes per game.

Why does Crap-no-Kaponoo still get so many minutes per game? Please Jay explains this to me. Why?

Jordanfanatic - Totally agree. Bosh is not the problem, and Bargs is coming along. What does need to happen is for BC to inject some serious talent in the rest of this roster. And I think Marion is actually a nice fit provided a) he can be retained at a reasonable price and b) Toronto finds a 2 guard who can create his own shot and score with the shot-clock winding down. Add some size and strength to the bench so Toronto can play in the halfcourt when needed, and some help for Joey off the bench and then you're starting to put something together.

The challenge though is for BC to make that happen under the summer's salary restraints.

It starts of course via the draft, and we'll be updating things in that respect tomorrow.

OK I can say that in regards to Bosh's play last night the box score says nothing. A 25/7 is all great an dandy, but so much of that came in the first quarter. Bosh hit 4 or 5 of his first 6 shots, then he disappeared the rest of the game. He hit those jumpers and then stuck with him the rest of the game. While in contrast to AB who took it at Yao, and then once Yao backed off started taking his 3's. Yao got on him again and AB would beat him off the dribble. Bosh took 4 free throws yesterday (and 2 were undeserved as I thought Yao had a clean block)... doesn't that say something about Bosh and his need to take it to the rim?

The simple fact is Yao, although a giant, is as slow a player as there is in the NBA. That is a serious weakness in him and the Raps did not capitalize on that once AB went out. Why not go small and continually take it at Yao? I mean if its not broken why fix it? The first 5 minutes could have set the tone for that game, but Traino played right into Houston's hands when he subbed in Voshkul for AB.

JordanFanatic - so its not acceptable taht Jose is a pylon on D, but its ok that Bosh is a pylon on D and rebounding? A pylon who is and will make more money than anyone else on the team?

JF: I agree with your comments. JK gets minutes because we have so little at the wing spots and because BC through the MLE at him. I'm sure you were asking a rhetorical question, but I doubt it is because Triano thinks he's playing good.

I feel so much pressure for JK when his shot isn't falling - the guy does one thing well and can't even do that.. He much feel like a douche.. At least he ought to.

SS: I was disappointed with Bosh last night also, but it isn't hit fault that Triano didn't go small to force a match up with Yao.

While I agree with the last three games being a litmus test, we already knew those teams were better than us, and that our roster requires adjustments. The stretch might give a lot of indications as to what pieces we have. At very least, Bargs' development is great to watch.

So if I understand you CB4 25/7 was nothing it basically worthless stats.

I complete agree with your point of AB attacking Yao has more impact on the game in terms of scoring then Bosh but if it was verse-versa we wouldn't even have this conversation and the Raptors still have lost the game. Plain and simply, the core group play good enough to beat any team last night including Marion (thanks Franchise) but AP, Crap-no-Kaponoo and the rest of grade F talent is not good enough.

I don’t understand how can people say Jose 10 assist per game and CB4 22/10 has no impact. Don’t get confuse regarding comparing Jose 10 assists to Nash 10 assist because that a different top.

But regarding the Raptors as a team and the way there structure Jose10 assists and Bosh 22/10 has so much impact then there are given credit for. Let say Bosh drop 18 of is 22 in the first half and the Raps are down by 10, mathematically speaking without CB4 18 we would be down by 28 rather then 10. At 10 we still have a shot to win the game. At 28 we don’t have a chance in hell. So how can we say CB4 22/10 has no impact. Don’t get me wrong I would love for CB4 to become Jason Terry and goes off in the 4th quarter dropping 12-15 points but it not happen especially with this team and at this point in the season. CB4 has is faults but he is not the problem!

As for Jose aka My Hammy hurts, well he is pylon on defense and offensively he not effective as he once was and that might be due to is injury but 16 assists for the Raptors is 16 assists. Given the ball to a bunch of jump shooters to shot the damn ball is Jose job and he does a pretty dam good job at it, maybe too friggin well. As a matter of fact if there was an award to throw the ball to a bunch of soft //censored// jumper shooters, well Jose would win every time. It not his fault it the way BC structure the team. Only cuter and I mean only cutter is Marion and since Jose is not use to passing the ball to a cutter well Marion suffers sometimes.

Sorry for the long comment!

Sorry but Bosh is not even close to been a pylon. I think the HATE for Bosh has grown and he is been judge unfairly for the second half of the season.

Any Raptors fan can see that CB4 lost is explosiveness. A combination of losing and injury and not been mentally tough can do that.

Bosh is an average defender and we all see this for the first two months of the season. Well last night he was bad but he not like this every night. He is a much better defender than that. And please do not bring up the Suns game. CB4 vs. Shaq = Disaster. A strong mobile 350 lbs C with experience vs. a mentally soft 24 years old FINEST PF is not your not the match up you want to see. If you can't understand I won't spend the time to explain.

Hey SwirskysSoldier

Bosh also leads the team in scoring, rebounding, getting to the free throw line, free throws made, second in block shots what else you want? And he’s playing on a bad knee. Again Bosh ain’t the problem.

SwirskysSoldier, I totally disagree with your assessment of Bosh and JC. How can you not appreciate 25/7 from a guy averaging 22/10? As far as I'm concerned last night he did his part and the bench didn't do theirs. What did u expect from Bosh, to keep scoring every quarter until he reached 75 points? At what point does he get support from the bench? I gotta say, I appreciate everyone's opinion but to condemn one of the best players in the league and easily the best player on the team is ridiculous. I’m in the camp for trading Bosh this summer if he doesn’t sign an extension but make no mistake he is one of the best things to happen to this organization since VC. As fans we can sometimes be so unappreciative and unrealistic with our expectations.

JF - i will never agree to the argument that 2 points at one point in the game have the same value as 2 points at a different point in the game. Yes they have the same numeric value, but have much different results in play style, coaching decisions, defense, fouls used, timeouts etc.

As for what I was saying in regards to Bosh's stats... take away the first 5 minutes of the game what do you get from Bosh? 15/4 on 33% shooting... is that what you expect from your superstar down the stretch. Is that what you expect from your go to guy for the final 43 minutes of a game? thats why stats are decieving, and watching the game and seeing players decisions and play styles(damn you TSN2.. although I get that channel I'm just saying it for everyone else who doesn't) are so much more important than the box score.

I'm not trying to say that Bosh sucks or that everything is Bosh's fault. But you have to admit that as long as Bosh is going to be 'the guy' on this team the responsibilities of the team fall on Bosh's shoulders.

I do agree that a good 2 guard (defensively and as a slasher) a long with a better bench means this team is a competitor. But I need to ask how do you get that without giving up a player like Bosh? How do you improve this teams descrepencies without any other tradeable peices. Do you really think Kapono, Voshkul, the Hump and Jawai are trade peices good enough to bring in what we need? If you can find a GM(s) that will take a trade like that... I have a swamp in Florida that needs selling.

Member29 - I never said a word about JC. Love the guy to death and he is and should be the backbone of this team.

JF - never said anything about the Suns game.. you are jumping to conclusions about what you THINK I'm going to say but didn't. And I don't hate Bosh, just the opposite. But you LOVE Bosh so much that you are not willing to see his downside. I will say that I support this TEAM more than I support Bosh. I want what is best for this team, not for a favorite player.

Taylor - Bosh is a pimp of a player (atleast offensively). But how do you improve this team on def. (and overall) with the peices we have. I have not and will never say Bosh sucks or isn't the best player on this team. But he needs to be that player at crunch time.

Seriously, to make significant gains next year, you have to separate "Touchable pieces" from "Untouchable pieces". One could start by doing a positional evaluation -- which one of the core pieces is easiest to replace with someone who might not be as talented but can contribute an increased number of wins? I think the answer is Calderon. If a piece of the core has to be moved, isn't that the moveable piece, especially if his replacement is better defensively? We risk stagnation, and one could say this has been a two year downward turn. Yes, his proponents will say he's been injured, but what concerns me is the degree of the drop off in his performance when he's not 100% and how much it impacts the flow of the game for the other players on BOTH ends. Those who've read my comments know I'm not necessarily a Calderon fan but I just can't project him holding up well over the course of a five year contract having to log 40 minutes a night. Unless you're Chris Paul, teams can do pretty well with a serviceable point guard,especially if he plays defense, so if a Calderon trade can translate into a serviceable point guard and some defensive minded, athletic bench depth at other spots, it's one worth considering.

SwirskysSoldier, I hear what your saying still
It’s hard to ask a power forward to be your go to guy (offensively) unless he’s a HOFer like Duncan or Malone. On most good teams it would a 2,3 or a 1. But that’s not the way the raps roster is built right now. I agree with you the roster is just not good enough.

As far as giving up Bosh, 20/10 guys don’t grow on trees. VC, gave him up isn’t he the type of go to guy the raps need now? It’s a tuff balancing act, trade Bosh you become stronger at another position(s), weaker at power forward. Glad it’s not my Decision

Taylor - I agree good bigs are one of the toughest positions to get. However, the Raps do have AB who should be playing PF anyways. (atleast in my opinion) That, to me, means that we atleast have a replacement at that position.

Interloper - I hear what you are saying about JC, but the one position I think is harder to replace than a good big is a good PG. Adequate pg are a dime a dozen, but good ones, that emphasize ball distribution, are very rare. (not to mention one that shoots 50%) I have a feeling playing for Spain this past summer (and the summer before) has had a large impact on his endurance this year. Although asking a Euro player not to play for his country is not going to end nicely. I also feel he needs time to learn the run and gun offense as Smitch has always emphasized the half court game. (I will say that he has been a bit of a disappointment this year... but then again who hasn't been on this team outside of AB?)

I forget who it was that mentioned a few days ago (whoever it was I'm sorry for not give appropriate credit but I don't really feel like searching through all the posts) that in all reality everything falls on what Bosh wants to do (in regards to a contract). Will Bosh sign an extension? Does Bosh want to go else where? Does he want to follow the money? Will he only stay for a max contract? etc. I also think the same could be said for Marion.

Consider the following:

1)what if Bosh leaves - a trade atleast means we get something in return. If there is no trade and Bosh leaves, the Raps are left with cap space. But will the big name players (or atleast the right players) be willing to come to Toronto? (I think this question could be asked regardless of whether the team is "good" or not. There seems to be an stigma around not wanting to play North of the border) Even if not, how much are salaries going to balloon thanks to the glutiny of talent available in 2010.

2)what if Bosh stays - I guarnatee he is getting a max contract regardless of where he plays, but what does that mean for the raps payroll. Can they afford to get teh players they need given that he will be taking up about 20 mil a year? More so, is he worth a max contract?

3) What about Marion - where does he stand this offseason? If he wants to stay, what are you going to pay him and how does that effect what Bosh wants? What if he wants to go elsewhere?

To me, given those question, the best option, assuming everything remains the same, is to trade Bosh and resign Marion this offseason (if possible) . I don't think anyone WANTS Bosh to go, but you have to admit given all the unknowns, our team will be in limbo come 2010. Personally I would hate to see Bosh leave and we got absolutely nothing in return but cap space. I see Bosh staying as a problem to because his contract just won't be worth his value as a player (atleast in comparison to the other max contracts out there). I mean are you willing to pay Bosh the same as Lebron James, D-Wade, or Kobe? is his actual value worth the same as these players?

Anyways, a lot longer than I was planning.....

completely agree with swirskysoldier. bosh is great but we all know hes leaving next year and gonna be making tons of monay.

interloper- agree with trading calderon aswell, we can get value in return. maybe portland.

Some really good questions around Bosh.

It's so hard to know just what will happen here but the 3 scenarios laid out by Swirsky Soldier echo just how much is up in the air right now.

To further confound those 3 points are the issues regarding this team in general - ie what sort of identity are they looking to forge going forward and therefore how does Bosh fit into that? And how much does BC value the draft this year? We've seen in the past that he doesn't value it that much at all but what if suddenly the Raps find themselves with a top pick...would they look to move the pick and someone on the current roster for some star help for CB4?

I guess the first thing is seeing how these remaining 20 games play out.

Right now Toronto has the eighth worst record in the L and therefore the eighth pick, lottery aside. The only team I can see them falling below in terms of wins is Golden State (2 less wins and having played 2 less games than Toronto so far) but to "catch" any of the other losers, the Raptors would essentially have to lose the rest of their games. I think Toronto needs to get into that top 7 slot to get an impact player (even if we're talking impact off the bench) so if they go on a mini winning streak in these final 20, then this starts the ball rolling in terms of BC's off-season options.

First of all, a player maximum contract is not 20 million so get your number straight. The maximum amount of money a player can sign for is contingent on the number of years that player has played and the total of the salary cap. After 2009-2010 season it will be CB4 7 years so he would be getting 30% of the salary cap. On many site the salary cap is projected to drop to a possibility of 58-56 million. Let say 58 million. which means CB4 would get 17.4 million or less.

Is he worth 17.4 million? Well we can look at this from many different angle. CB4 2009 salary is going to be $14.4 million. Is he worth a 3 million dollar upgrade. Well yes, still young and have a lot of upside. Already a 22/10 guy, an offensive weapon and average defender. At age 25 and with a very good work ethnic the kid can still make improvements in the areas he need improving.

Bosh is still not mentally strong to carry a team on a consistence level. A sign that his seen in almost all young all-star especially big man. This is not to protect Bosh but it is the truth. Lets look at some of the great who are still playing. KG aka The Kid did not do it, Duncan best ever did not do it, Dwight Howard a freak of nature and he his not going to do it. If you think Dwight is going to bring is team to the mother-land in the next two-three years you are so wrong. Howard, as good as he his is still not mentally strong to beat a team like the Celtics or Lakers in a seven game series. It just not going to happen.

Bosh defense is questionable and due to a losing season this is more evident then ever. Is it that bad that who throw the kid under the bus but it is something he got to work on. Lack of confidence, injury and a team with no athleticism will make this worst than it is. This team has absolutely no system, no team defense so it does not matter how good you are defensively. If you are on this Raptors team your defense will suffer. Marion is a very good defensive SF but the other 3 position suck ass defensively so his defense suffer . Plain and simply.

Bosh is not yet a leader but has the potential to be one. It is up to him, it is not up to what the media or fans proclaim him to be.
"A Leader is just as good or just as bad as the troops under his command make him" General Douglas MacArthur.

"Leadership is gain through losing and winning, knowledge and experience your best player or the most paid player is not always the leader" Larry Bird.
Enough Said.

Sorry I can post the rest of my comments

It won't allow me to

Another great article Franchise; and I love all the back and forth on this site. Everyone seems to be pretty well informed in terms of their opinions, to the point that it got me thinking about the possibility of blowing this team up or simply trading CB4.

The reason I say this is because (and correct me if I'm wrong) I am getting the feeling that Bosh will leave in 2010. Two reasons why I think this will happen; first, Bosh seems to have been negatively affected by this tumultuous season and I believe it is impacting his mindset vis a vis signing an extension to stay in Toronto; secondly, I think that both Wade and LBJ will stay with their respective clubs (especially Wade) which will make Bosh the most sought after commodity in 2010, for all those teams who cleared space. The enticement of going to Miami to play with Wade, I think will be too much for Bosh to pass up (I think).

With that in mind, I don't think you have to blow the team up, even if you are forced to trade Bosh. Assuming you get more than the bag of peanuts we got for Carter, the team would probably be fine if Bargnani steps in and plays the 4 with the same intensity he's displayed over the last little while.

However, the reason I bring up Bosh is that BC REALLY REALLY needs to get Bosh to sign the extension this summer. Otherwise you have to start quietly shopping him for the reasons I stated above; even if only Wade re-signs and LBJ goes to NY, that still will leave Bosh as the most sought after FA (sorry Amare). That will leave Bosh with a pick of which team he would like to go to, like Miami or NY to join James, ready to make a championship push; Miami has a superstar (Wade) and is in a desirable location (South Beach) and NY would ostensibly has LBJ, the bright lights and a championship run also in the cards. If that happens, then we MIGHT be able to squeeze Beasley out of Miami or Gallinari/Lee, or maybe Bosh just signs for the max deal they can give for a shot at a championship with an Olympic teammate.

Bosh will ultimately make the decision on whether he is traded or not, and it will stem from his actions or lack thereof, this summer. If he doesn't re-sign by training camp, then we can save the ESPN trade machine as our home pages and begin the speculation; until such a time, it's inane to cook up Bosh trade scenarios because no matter what, we will not end up with the best player in the deal: that would be Bosh.

Rob

The above three reason and a crappy team second to last in the weak conference surely should not land you the max, but he going get it the max not because he on the say level as Lebron, Kobe or Wade, (I so sick and tired of people using this, there are totally different players with different skill set and play different position on a totally different team with totally different team-mates) but he going to get it because of his age, potentially and his skill set. I can't see an extra 3 million dollar more put this team in a bad situation financial. Bad contracts such as Crap-no-Kaponoo and Banks equals 10.7 million in 2009 is worst then giving Bosh 17.4 million.

If Bosh leaves he leaves. If BC decided to surround him with grade F level talent and expect playoff than my I would bolt too. Again, a change in personal and talent is so badly needed. Getting rid of talent is not the answer. Trading Bosh for a bunch of "what if" is not the answer. People don't seem to understand the impossibility of trade Bosh. Even if there is a trade out there players coming back are in long term contract. And if these guys don't work out then what? We sit here and ride out the longevity of there contract on losing season. At least if Bosh bolt we have cap room to get a free good players, they don't have to be all-star. It a better plan then getting a brunch of "what if".

Do you guys think GM go out there and sign players base on the salary of the best player in the league. If that the case then majority of all-stars player don't deserve any thing close to Lebron and Kobe. Which means majority of the league good players are over-paid? Make so much sense...

The Raptors as a team suck donkey ass an this is not Bosh fault. I have no Man Love for Bosh. I defend Bosh the same way I was defending Bustani (like most of you guys called him) during his awful two months and last season. I also defend Jose multiply times but I so frustrated of is defense. Truth to be told I still like is game and if I have to bet he not going to traded, thus I hoping it injury and conditioning is the reason for this season and next season should be better.

Some good comments.

Bosh is a shitty defender right now in my opinion. But I think we can all agree he has the tools to become better. Why can't this dimension also be added to a 24 year old player's arsenal?

The answer is that it has to happen if Bargnani and Bosh are to play together on a championship team one day, which is ultimately what we're trying to think about. (Just chuckled to myself and shook my head there.)

But if we're talking next year, some nice bulk coming off the bench could offset the weak shit we've seen this year. (Sorry Chris)

I think I speak for many when I say, "Come on Nash!!!!!!!"

jordanfanataic- i dont know if u noticed but this is toronto. we DO NOT attract (m)any good players. it will be tough to sign good players in 2010 unless we over pay, especially if the team is doing awful and we just let bosh walk, many players would not want to be in a situation where the franchise player just left and unlikely to fight for a championship.

letting bosh walk is stupid, thats why many gm's trade their expiring player the year they expire. and its not like we wont get anything in return, bosh is a good talent and any team would try to get him. they may give up a good player or two and some picks will help aswell.

bosh would be good to the other team because if he walks, then they have cap or they can even resign him. all im sayin is toronto is not where many players look to sign to because we're outside of the US and if we let bosh leave without anything in return, DO NOT expect an impact free agent that year. also theyre contracts would likely be longer, and what happens if the team doesnt work out, then what do we do?

oh and stop calling him crap-no-kaponoo. we all know he's not playing well but its getting annoying.

ALl this talk about trading Bosh and no one is actually putting forward a trade that would make sense. The truth is, as I and other's have already stated, making a trade is easier said then done. There simply are not a lot of options out there that would improve this team while still maintaining flexibility to add pieces where needed down the road. In other words, unless you want to take on a couple of 5 year contracts you are most likely going to get expiring deals and maybe picks back. Not exactly what I think most people are looking for. If you feel that some team is going to trade us our solution (whatever that is)for Bosh then you are dreaming.
As for Bargnani replacing Bosh in the PF spot, I have no problem with that but then who replaces Bargnani at the 5?
This team is in real danger of collapsing in on itself as the way it is constructed doesn't leave much room for error. Even if they get 10 or more mill in cap space this offseason(a debatable point) it will be hard to use it without tying the club into more bad contracts. Attracting free agents will be difficult as no one will want to get Branded in 2010 if Bosh left as a FA. It is difficult to get something of value for Bosh in a trade without having to over spend or accept crippling contracts (long term) in return. There is nothing on the roster that can pick up the slack (outside of JG suddenly turning into a 16/g guy) as time goes on so what are they going to do?

JordanFanatic,

I'd disagree with you on Bosh having alot of upside. That's a term I'd reserve for someone who hasn't really established an identify in the league, but has shown flashes of a bright future. Bosh is there right here, right now. Its really a credit to him that he matured as fast as he did, to me it feels like Bosh has been averaging 20-10ish forever. He can refine elements of his game like ballhandling and the defense for sure. Does he have 4 million's worth of added improvement in him...I don't think so. But there's a disconnect between every player's salary and their performance. I'd guess that 1//3 of NBA salaries are paying for past performance, another third for current, and the remaining for "potential". Whatever we pay Bosh is what it takes to hang on to him. As long as he's putting up close to 20-10 and draws a double-team, I'd be content with his performance for the duration of any deal. Bargani's contract extension in 2010, now that will be a case of speculation of the highest order. If I had to call it right now, I'd say he's capable of putting up numbers, but would perform best away from the spotlight of being "the guy". If by some fortunate twist of fate, we ended up with Bargs as our number 3 option on offense, I think we would be in really good shape.

And it wouldn't even have to be the most talented guy left, just the guy who's game best suited being the new focus of the offense. Shawn Marion and Calderon are great at their roles, but spend 19 million on the pair, and your still no closer to that 2nd offensive option.

If BryCo wants to bring back everyone, best case could be to draft the best combo guard available. Someone like Teague or Warren, and have Ukic spend the summer bulking up so that he can handle pg duties while checking the opposing SG on defense.

Re-read and last two points need some clarification. I'm talking about the search for a number 2 option on offense for the times Bosh is on the bench. And in the case of the combo guard, it would be in a instant offense sixth man role.

Tea time

Kaponoo not playing well is an understatement but if I offended you by calling him Crap-no-Kaponoo this will be my last time.

As for FA coming to T.O. you have a good point. Most America Media and Player sell Toronto 'short'. I do wish people you live in this beautiful City and Raptors fan don't do the same and sell this team and the city short as well. There are few good impact players in the 2010 FA. These guys are not all-star but has the potential to be one. Getting a few good young role players is not impossible. If we have a Coach with a direction and a system = team identity than getting players to fit this system in the 2010 FA is not impossible.

Quick question for you guys - When was the last Raptors make a run in the FA market to get an impact player?

"last time"

Mensah-Bonsu signed with the Raps!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3952805

Re:Mensah-Bonsu, Good signing, if he put up half the numbers he did in the D league he'll be successful in the NBA.