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Money for Nothing - The Raptors' Salary Cap Situation

As the capologist points out, BC may have a tough time bringing back Delfino...

As the capologist points out, BC may have a tough time bringing back Delfino...

It is safe to assume that Bryan Colangelo, the rest of the management team, and MLSE are not thrilled with the Raptors’ current roster.

Knowing this and that Colangelo is never shy to move players around, like most Raptors fans, I would not be shocked if the team makes one or more trades/sign-and-trades in the off-season. However, I would also not be surprised to see a nearly identical team on the floor either to start the 2009-10 NBA session. It is becoming more and more likely that the Raptors will add a lottery pick to the roster, but Colangelo finding trades that he likes is far from a given. Fans better hope that the current group is able to grow and improve significantly next year, as the financial situation is slowly stipulating that they would be the core of the team.

Why?

Because there just ain’t a lot of money to go around.

At first glance, considering that Marion is a free agent and that Marcus Banks will cost considerably less than J.O. would have next season, not having any money to spend may seem confusing. In fact even if readers have heard BC say that the team does not have a lot of money to work with other than re-sign current players, they may feel that he is blowing smoke.

Unfortunately it’s a reality and I will do my best to explain why this is, and outline some of the key points that will affect Toronto this off-season.

Despite some speculation that the salary cap and luxury tax threshold levels will decrease next season, nobody knows what the numbers will be. They are both related to Basketball Related Income. The economy is obviously not great, but basketball is becoming more popular around the globe which means more money. I would bet that the salary cap and luxury tax, two figures that typically climb each year, will remain close to where they are now (whether there is an increase or decrease). I believe that the luxury tax number will be more important to Toronto than the cap. Whatever the cap is, the Raptors will be just under it in terms of "real dollars committed". It is important to know that the money they have already committed is not the only thing that affects their cap-space. Some salary cap technicalities are bound to put the Raptors over the cap before the free-agency period even begins.

With the addition of Patrick O’Bryant, the Raptors have $47,373,371 owing next year in guaranteed contracts. If they exercise a very affordable option on Jawai, they will owe $48,109,791 to the following 9 players: Bosh, Calderon, Bargnani, Kapono, Banks, Humphries, O’Bryant, Ukic and Jawai. This year’s salary cap and luxury tax threshold were $58.68 million and $71.15 million respectively. At first glance, it looks like Toronto would have just over $10 million to spend on new players if the cap were to stay the exact same. Unfortunately, this would not be the case.

Toronto is sure to begin the free-agency period over the cap, unless they renounce their rights to re-sign all of these players: Shawn Marion, Anthony Parker and Joey Graham. Free-agent salaries that are not renounced are automatically added to a team’s total salary commitment. There are formulas based upon a player’s years of experience, and whether they made more or less than the Mid-level Exception in the previous season determines how much they count against the cap until they actually sign. Once the player signs, these "cap holds" are removed and the player’s actual starting salary is added on to the team’s "real-dollar commitment amount".

Confused yet?

Let’s explain these "cap holds" a bit more then.

The rules of the collective bargaining agreement state that "every NBA team must always have at least 12 players taking up cap space." Marion’s cap hold counts for about $20 million, Parker counts for about $9 million and Joey Graham counts for about $4 million. Add these numbers on to the Raptors total of about 47-48 million and you are at around $80 million. Fortunately, these players would be re-signed for a lot less than $33 million, if they are all brought back. But you now get the idea of why Colangelo after the O’Neal trade wasn’t throwing around numbers like $20 Million in cap space cleared. (For a good breakdown of cap holds as they affect a team trying to get far under the cap like the Knicks, click here.)

Add into the mix that Toronto has the right to re-sign Carlos Delfino (a very real possibility based on Colangelo’s post-O’Neal trade conference call) if they want, and the bottom line is that the Raptors will be functioning as if they are over the cap.

In addition to the free-agent cap holds being added to the total, the value of the Mid-level Exception (MLE) and Bi-annual exception will most likely be added to the Raptors total as well. The MLE should be around $5-6 million and the bi-annual exception will be worth $2 million. The Raptors would lose their right to use these exceptions should they choose in advance to tank next year by filling their roster with league-minimum contracts, thus keeping their total salary under the cap. Toronto could also choose to renounce their rights to the exceptions. Both of those scenarios are unlikely though, especially the former considering the team next year probably needs to do the exact opposite of tanking in order to entice Chris Bosh to stick around. It is more realistic that the Raptors will look to re-sign at least one or two of their upcoming free-agents which would put them in a position to use their exceptions.

Whether or not Toronto uses its exceptions will depend upon how much it costs them to resign their free-agents of course, and whether or not they are willing to pay into the luxury tax. Let’s assume however that the Raptors are unwilling to venture far into luxury tax land, and to simplify things we will imagine that the luxury tax level is the same next year as it is now.

With Jawai on board, the Raptors would have roughly 23 million dollars left to spend before getting "into the tax". Since they are going to be considered to be over the league salary cap based on our previous breakdown, Toronto can only really spend this money on some combination of Marion, Parker, Graham, the upcoming draft pick, and players signed using all of or some of the MLE. Could they do all that with so little money?

Since it looks like there will be very few shoppers this off-season, it is possible.

Looking around the league, Detroit should be well under the cap, but they have to decide whether or not to re-sign AI and Rasheed Wallace. If they sign both of those guys, they could have over $50 million spent before bringing back any of their lesser free-agents or signing anyone new.

Atlanta is over the cap unless they renounce their rights to re-sign Mike Bibby. And most other clubs don’t have much wiggle room, or likely won’t want to use it in hopes of cashing in on some of the bigger name free-agents the following summer.

The two real wild cards are Memphis and OKC. After signing their draft picks, both teams could have a significant chunk of change left to spend on free agents (both teams currently have less than $40 million committed). Other than those 4 teams though, it’s going to be tough barring trades for other teams to be significant players in the free-agent market, especially with the economy and teams looking to cut costs. Hopefully, none of the potential buyers have a strong interest in Marion, the only Raptor that would possibly command more than the MLE. There should be a bunch of other talented free-agents out there, (here is a complete list as of February 24th) so hopefully nobody makes a hard play for the Matrix if that’s indeed who BC would prefer to re-sign. If no other team does make Marion a huge offer then, assuming money is important to Marion, he would pretty much be forced into re-signing with the Raptors for little more than the MLE.

It is possible that Marion could be re-signed to a contract with a starting salary of about $7 million so let’s work with that number. How much the Raptors would have left to spend would depend on what draft pick they end up with. It will cost them somewhere between $1.75 million (14th pick) and $4.983 million (1st pick). I am going to dream big here and look at the worst-case scenario financially, with the Raptors therefore landing the 1st pick. That means that the top pick and Marion are signed for next season at a combined price of $12 million. Based on our previous breakdown, that would leave roughly $11 million dollars on the table to bring back Parker, Graham and a few other players to fill the roster. Again, given that not a lot of teams have money to spend, perhaps Parker and Graham could be resigned for a total of $7 million or less as currently they are taking in about that much this season. That would give Toronto 13 players with about $4 million left to spend, and would probably mean having enough money to lure Delfino back and bring in a "league minimum" player to complete the 15-man roster. If Colangelo can do a good enough job with his own free-agents, than the best case scenario would be having some extra bucks to use to out-bid teams for the services of a defensive big like Chris Andersen so the league-minimum wouldn’t even come into play. The "league minimum" amount (say for a veteran ala Rasho Nesterovic) increases with years experience, but the league picks up the tab on anything above $825,000 in order to keep marginal veterans employed.

The scenario suggested above may not play out exactly as suggested, but barring any trades it would likely be something similar to this. And since the Raptors can only go over the cap to re-sign players, sign draft picks, sign players using the MLE/BAE, barring significant trades – you will not see a lot of new faces.

I am just hoping that they wisely spend the $20-25 million that they should have available.

Given that nobody else has much money, I will consider Toronto to have done very poorly, if they cannot at least bring back Marion, Parker, Graham and a talented draft pick without leaving room for more help. I believe they should be able to do this and still have a few million left to spend on Delfino or a similar talent using part of the MLE. My choice would be Trevor Ariza, but I will leave the analysis of player talent up to my confederates at the HQ and more knowledgeable posters.

The Capologist

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We don't have to have 15 players under the roster. If we bring back all of AP, Joey and Delfino and sign Marion then we'll have a glut of wings. We all know how last season worked out in a similar situation.
We need a banger big to complement CB4, Andrea and Hump either through trade or draft. In any case, we are in a better financial position than a lot of other NBA teams.

by Daniel on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

So is O'Bryant guaranteed for next year?

I guess he has some potential, but I would prefer Rasho to have that roster spot. Rasho might now be the larger contributer on the court, but would certainly bring a lot of experience. Plus I want bargs to be surrounded by guys like him, who have won and had successful and respected careers and who ooze proffessionalism and class.

by TJ Caino on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

The problem last year wasn't the amount of wings, but the talent level. Retaining Marion addresses part of that.

Parker and delfino is not an ideal solution at SG. We may be able to improve this position through the draft and with exemptions, but we certainly won't be bringing in an all star.

That is why I think there is a strong possibility of our pick being packaged to bring in a quality established sg. It just seems like BC's MO to consolodate assets.I'm just not sure what players are readily packagable for any decent return.

Worst case scenario is Delfino and Parker at the 2, which still presents an improvement at that position, and along with Marion presents a significant improvement at the wings in general over the start of this season.

by TJ Caino on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

Yep, O'Bryant is guaranteed for next year although it's not for much. He'll likely take Voskuhl's spot.

Another interesting article regarding team financial situations:

http://www.blazersedge.com/2009/2/24/768932/paul-allen-s-money-trouble

Looks like the Blazers aren't doing as hot in regards to the books as we originally thought. Makes you wonder how much other teams are hurting too, even ones that are doing well at the gate.

by Franchise on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

Hmm, I still say that O’Bryant’s contract is a sunk cost, and if we can bring in Rasho at the Vet’s minimum which, we should do so.

Caldy / Ukic/ Banks
Delfino / Parker
Marion / Graham / Kapono
Bosh / Jawai / Hump
Bargs / XXXX

Draft Pick
MLE

XXX = O’Bryant/Rasho/Voshkul

by TJ Caino on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

I've heard around some circles that even though O'Bryant's contract is guaranteed for next year, buying him out isn't out of the question. That being said, I don't think the Raptors are losing sleep over $700,000

by Vicious D on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

I know I am in the minority here but this team needs a make-over, not just re-runs.

In terms of the SG spot I would much rather BC use the funds and find a player (either by trade or signing) that can (A) create their own shot, and (B) can play defense. An aging Parker and out of the league Delfino are not the answers. I want Graham back at a reasonable cost because the team is finally starting to get some ROI.

The other glaring hole this team has is in the front court. They have to add some grit and toughness and have a solid rotation of at least three established bigs that can contribute (think Maxiell). If this team is relying on Jawai, O'Bryant or any other big currently on this roster next year they are doomed. Rasho is a pro's pro but if the idea is to play up-tempo you have to take a pass.

I will go back to what I said after the Knicks game, BC first has to decide on a coach and style of play and then we can discuss options.

by HOWLAND on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

We'll see - of this O'Bryant guy shows some potential, perhaps we should keep him. He is cheap, and much younger than either Rasho or Voshkul.

However, I'm truly not impressed with his towel waiving. Voshkul is having the time of his life on the raptors bench, while this O'Bryant charactor looks like he just got in trouble and is waiting to get a talkin to in the principals office.

Sorry for abusing the comments section... But it is an interesting time of year to try to undertand our options and restraints and speculate as to what management will decide. I know I have atleast one more post perculating...

by TJ Caino on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

ideally we'd re-sign marion, draft a hotshot young 2 with out lottery pick, and sign none other than zaza pachulia as our backup 5. badabing, back to the top 5 in the east.

by benjibopper on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

1. there is no way Marion is signing for 7 million (nor should he for someone who basically averages a double double)

2. the cap will not be the same as this year. It's projected to fall by as much as 3 million

3. the Pistons would NEVER resign Iverson.

by Kend on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

kend - think the point here is that its going to be tough for marion to get anything close to what hes making now with the way other teams are cutting costs etc. So maybe to can pay 9 for him which might trump anything else teams can offer and hell stick around.

Pistons wont keep ai but cant see them going after marion either unless he wants a lot less loot.

by fromlongrange on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

Awesome - I get to go after Kend's fourplicate posting...

- I see BC either encouraging Triano to rebuild the team with more running, or hiring an ex-Sun like Iavoroni to do the same thing. In either case we shouldn't see a return to the Smitch years.

- Given the above, Rasho just doesn't fit anymore, and O'Bryant is a very cheap option to keep as a backup with upside. Can we give him an attitude-ectomy?

- I firmly believe we can re-sign Marion, though $7M strikes me as a bit on the optimistic side.

And here's where I really get speculative...

- Find a trade partner, any trade partner, for Kapono.

- Don't resign Graham. He's developed this year, but I'm not convinced he's a keeper and for the money he'd get he's just not worth it.

- Use the savings to re-sign Parker and Delfino.

- Buy another late 1st (the Suns always seem to give theirs away, lets assume its them)

- Either use the two picks to trade up to take Harden, or draft Aminu (with our own) and BJ Mullens - the latter two of whom should be available at those spots according to Draft Express.

Calderon / Ukic/ Banks
Delfino / Parker
Marion / Aminu
Bosh / Jawai / Hump
Bargs / Mullens / O'Bryant

As far as I can tell I haven't crossed into the dreamland of Crosby for Antropov/Kaberle and a 1st, yet...

by Bedhead on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

Nice post, I didn't understand what a "cap hold" was until I read this.

Kend: If Marion can't be had for $7 million (assuming there are other teams that would sign him for more), why not give that money to a player like Marvin Williams? My point is that the Raptors should have options in the offseason due to their relative flexiblity.

by Statement on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

I would also like to apologize if some of my posts have had spelling errors. I had composed some on my blackberry, and do not have spell check in my browser. Also, while I’m on the mic, I wanted to mention my appreciation of the article. It clearly explains concepts that many fans do not quite understand. It makes it hard to discourse about possible courses of action when your counterpart does not understand the parameters within which the organization must operate.

I was have a conversation with some buddies Friday night, and they kept insisting that Marion would jet, not understanding that there were not many teams in a position to sign him, and that we were likely to at least realize value form him in the form of a sign and trade - which is not to say that we are guaranteed this, but it certainly seems like a likely outcome. (On a related note, I agree Detroit is an unlikely destination – they could target him to play the four, but would that really fit in with their system?)

It will be very interesting to see where the caps are set. With recessions in North America Asia and China, it is hard to imagine the Basketball Related Income not being significantly impacted. One of the main determinants of how much of an impact will be the period in which they measure BRI – The dates of their measurement period will determine how much of this period was spent in a recessionary climate, and how much was spent with in a struggling, but less gloomy economy.

Another thing that will really effect our bargaining position is international competition. If the Euro League teams are doing ok financially, Delfino and Parker may have a strong incentive to sign over there.

BC has acquired a reputation for overpaying for players he wants, but this offseason, a shrewd million or two saved can really go a long way. Depending on the Cap limits, and the contracts offered from Europe, BC might hold a strong bargaining position over our FA’s.

Capologist, the scenario you paint is rather bleak: signing our draft pick, Marion, Parker and Graham, and only having 4 million under the cap. However, I cannot do much more than squabble with a more than a million here or there.

I agree with Kend that the Tax is likely to go down. Probably between 1 and 2 million, but who knows.

I also agree with Kend that resigning for 7 is a bit optimistic. I disagree that no one that averages a double double should ever sign for that amount, because that is just silly. He will sign for the best deal him and his agent feel that they can get. Depending on the offseason landscape, 7 million might be in Marion’s best interest.

The Draft pick is exceptionally unlikely to be first overall. Personally, I am an optimist with regards to thing within our control, and a pessimist with regards to lotteries. I expect our pick to be closer to the 1.75 quoted for a 14th pick as opposed to the 5 million quoted for a first overall. For this I will claim a benefit for 3.25 for our projections.

Capologist’s projected Parker and Graham contracts seem reasonable enough. Though given the economic climate around the league BC can really hold the hammer over graham. Parker may be willing to go back to Europe, where he is more likely to score a decent contract that in NA. We may be able to ink both for less than 6: Graham 3.25 and Parker 2.75.

Really, through all that squabbling, we loose 3 million from the cap and Marion projections, and gain 4.25 from the draft pick and Graham’s and Parkers deal’s. This would give us 5.25, which the extra million and a quarter might be a significant difference.

It still seems in this scenario that BC would face a decision between targeting a piece using the MLE and resigning Delfino one of our free agents. Though obviously this can be split up, but it depends on how much the FA’s are willing to sign for, and what we may be able to get with the MLE.

by TJ Caino on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

what's with the lottery pic comments. The Raps will not be in the lottery this draft. They will make the playoffs, so their pick will be between 16th to 30th. I say about 17th, which will cost them about just over the million mark for the draft. So they should be able to resign Matrix and bring back Parker and Joey.

by RAPS4LIFE on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

"what's with the lottery pic comments. The Raps will not be in the lottery this draft. They will make the playoffs, so their pick will be between 16th to 30th. I say about 17th, which will cost them about just over the million mark for the draft. So they should be able to resign Matrix and bring back Parker and Joey."

Ahhh...blind faith, can't fault people for being optimstic.

by Statement on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

Statement: I'm not sure that marvin williams presents enough marginal benefit over marion to warrent renouncing parker, graham, delfino and our exemptions.

by TJ Caino on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

Again, I agree with Howland. Get an established coach first. I don't care if it's an up tempo coach or a deffensive coach, I just want a coach with a track record. Then you give the coach the players he needs to run his system. No more changing identities half way through the season to mask the deficiencies of the roster.

Every player acquisition needs to come AFTER the signing of a coach. I want to see BC sign a coach soon after the Raps season ends, and before the draft and free agency. In a way it is the most important decision, because any FA will factor in the coach to their ultimate decision... no player wants to sign with a team and then have a coach come in who has no use for him.

After the coach, the draft will determine who BC signs with the MLE. Draft a big, sign a guard. Draft a guard, sign a big.

Thanks for this article by the way... I think a lot of fans need this information so as not to get overly disappointed when the Raps don't land a big name FA.

by lessthanzero on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

Whats with all this chat about bringing back AP, Joey AND Delfino?!?!

You guys really want the same team next year? C'mon!!! Let's have a bit of faith that the talent can be upgraded no?

AP can make more in Israel, so let him walk. Joey is ok, but only if he signs for less than $3million.

Delfino I can deal with for about $4million.

Marion will likely get $7-9million if you ask me.

The extra money should be spent on luring Von Wafer away from Houston. Let him start at SG, with Delfino as the backup and then groom the first round pick who should also be a shooting guard.

To get a tougher rebounding backup, find it in a trade. I'm looking in Reggie Evans direction. Trade Banks or Kapono for him.

You can hate my suggestions as much as you want, but pleeeeease, do not be satisfied with simply re-signing the current Raptors players. This team stinks!

by Sharone Wright Fanclub on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

there is some benefit to bringing back some of their pending FAs, as long as the plan is that their role is more clearly defined than it was this season.

for instance - AP being re-signed at a good figure (~$3M/yr) might not be a bad thing, as long as they're able to sign or trade for a legit NBA-quality 2, and bring AP off the bench at the 1 or 2. ditto for delfino - a reasonable deal, with the expectation that he'd be a valuable guy coming off the bench at the 2 or 3 (or some spot 1), in lieu of re-signing AP. personally, i think anthony's given all he has to the organization, and would be surprised if he signed anywhere else in the league if he doesn't re-sign w/ TO.

as for marion - agree that he'll garner something just over the MLE, there aren't many teams that have the room to go after him, and teams that do may not have systems in place that would best take advantage of what he brings to the table (not saying the raps do either, but that's another story).

in general, i think there's merit to seeing what this team can do with some minor tweaking & a full, healthy year from their primary players. let's say they aren't able to make a splash in free agency, and go into next year with a roster built around bosh, jose, bargs & marion; let's say they let AP walk, and re-sign delfino (who, due to lack of options, starts at the 2); jake & o'bryant will not be retained (o'bryant's contract for next year is only partially guaranteed, so they can just pay the portion that's guarnteed - i think it's around $400K - & let him walk); assuming they pick in the top-10 (looks likely), they should be able to draft a good wing player, who may (or may not) be able to contribute right away. i doubt they'll be able to trade JK, though that should be a priority; i imagine they'll re-sign joey, and should be able to do so for the min. allowed ($3.5M). they could also use the $3M from the JO/Marion deal to buy a pick (mid-1st rounder, perhaps), and pick up an 'area of need' guy. they'll likely have to sign a couple guys to vet. min. deals to fill out the roster (i doubt they'll want to start the year with the minimum # of roster spots filled again).

does a primary lineup of jose, CD, marion, bosh & bargnani, with hump, JK, joey & ukic as the main bench guys, contend for a playoff spot, or a 2nd round appearance (or more)?

by yertu damkule on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

Great discussion. I think what "The Capologist" did was build a skeleton so as fans we can see what BC is up against. We're going to get him to do an update of this as we hit the off-season and can fill in some of the blanks (where our draft pick falls, etc, etc.)

I think Toronto is going to end up with the 8th pick when all is said and done, and that should give them some more money to work with in terms of signings.

I think Caino raises a good point about the dates which will affect this year's cap amounts etc. A portion of last year wasn't so bad so that's why some around the league are saying this year the cap will stay about the same but it's next year that things will really fall.

Another article regarding all of this from the Washington Times this morning actually:

http://washingtontimes.com/news/2009/feb/26/nba-set-to-acquire-175-million-line-of-credit/

I wonder if Toronto is one of the teams with its hand out...

PS - I still think we could trade Kapono for Crosby...

by Franchise on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

On the topic of free agent acquisitions, why not look to the Suns as a trade partner? Id say after this summer there will be a fire sale of players available. I know hes expensive but Barbosa would be a nice pick up. Dump Kapono and maybe a draft pick (yes I know Ill take heat for the draft pick) but that gives you a decent line up (provided Shawn is re-signed.).. Calderon, Barbosa, Marion, Bosh and Bragnani will be an uptempo break neck paced team who can kill you inside and out. The bench you could re-sign Graham to some in to play positions 2-4 and try to bring in Matt Barnes. The bench will look a lot nicer with Graham, Ukic, Barnes and Jawai brings a lot of muscle and skill to replace the current situation. If you can re-sign Parker to come off the bench then thats just icing on the cake. And if possible, keep Jay as the coach. Hes doing the best with the hand hes been dealt. Give him a healthy roster and a full year and I think we could be talking about a potential top 4 seed in the East.

by Thor on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

It seems that debates as to what we should do this offseason become proxy wars for other arguments. It seems one position on what to do this offseason is determined by your opinion of what you think about several things - Bosh and bargs front court,Calderon as an nba startern, the marion trade etc.

I think fundamentally influential is ones opinion of how this team would do with Marion and Delfino on the roster, and ukic playing at it's current pace.

That should largely determine whether you are ok with augmenting that talent pool with a draft pick and exemptions.

Personally, I think that team could have challenged for home court (coaching anbd injuried aside). So I guess that would largely be the difference. I still admit we'd be a piece or two away, but I gather BC wants to be as competative as possible at any point, and has faith that the necessary opprotunities will be presented in time.

(Of course some people might agree with me on that much, but figure the season has been so bad anyways that we may as well get a pick out of it.)

by TJ Caino on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

Kend, the way contracts in the nba work is that they can increase every year or decrease every year meaning that if we signed him for say 4 years at 31 mil he could make 7 the first 7.5 the next 8 the next and 8.5 after that which isn't that bad considering the market

by syMMetry on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

also i don't know why ppl are saying not to re-sign joey cmon now the guy is finally starting to get it and you're going to let him leave. He's already carving his niche I think letting him go would be a bad idea...

by syMMetry on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

But a couple things that can be argeed upon is that BC has some time to evaluate these guys, and he certainly have some options at his disposal. What ought be done with it all should provide some healthy debate until well past the decisions have actaully been made (for reasons our significant others will never perfectly understand or accept).

by TJ Caino on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

Love the money game. But we still have 23 games to go this season, so don't be surprised if the Raps pull it off and make the playoffs and then make some noise in the post season....I know its blind faith, like Statement says but without faith this team would drive me crazy this season but I am seeing that little light at the end of the tunnel with their play since the Marion trade.

by RAPS4LIFE on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

Love the money game. But we still have 23 games to go this season, so don't be surprised if the Raps pull it off and make the playoffs and then make some noise in the post season....I know its blind faith, like Statement says but without faith this team would drive me crazy this season but I am seeing that little light at the end of the tunnel with their play since the Marion trade.

by RAPS4LIFE on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

jawai has been sent to the d-league. best possible move, obviously. the guy wasn't doing anything for the team on the bench. and with JO gone, there's no (semi)real big for him to learn from in practice.

by papa on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

I think fundamentally influential is ones opinion of how this team would do with Marion and Delfino on the roster, and ukic playing at it's current pace.

Caino - totally agree. Right now BC has to decide a number of things - among them:

-Can this team be built around Bosh, Bargs and Jose?
-If so, does Marion fit and can this core play the style he wants them to play?
-If Marion does fit, can he be retained at a reasonable price?
-And what about Delfino, is he needed if Joey can be kept for a cheaper price?
-And what about Roko - is he the team's back-up of the future?

That's only the tip of the iceberg of course but hopefully the team can stay healthy enough the rest of the way out to properly evaluate things.

by Franchise on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

I gotta say I'm amazed at all the people that want to keep Parker around. If he signs cheap (and I'm talking real cheap) then I see no problems with him coming off the bench. This guy has taken baby steps backwards each year, and this year he has not exactly been above par as a ball player.

Delfino I have no problems with, but this should be no more than a couple million. He played well when he was here but he is as streaky of a player gets. He'll hit that three with a player right in his face, but he is just as likely to miss a wide open jumper. (career 40% shooter) I will say he does have some decent ball handling skills and tries hard on D though.

Joey - I'd like to see him stay and I can't imagine any team coming with alot for him. But again, if someone comes with a high offer....

What I would love to see happen (and I know I'm gonna get hell for it) is to see Bosh traded. He is a guy that will be getting a max contract in 2010 and simply doesn't deserve it. Don't get me wrong Bosh is a great player, a good guy, and a class act all the way. He just is not on the same lvl as Amare, Lebron, Wade, etc who will be getting those max contracts. If for some reason he is willing to stay for less than max, then great. But I'm doubting, unless this team makes a deep play off run next year, he's even staying. I know everyone likes to believe that their guy doesn't want to go anywhere, but don't forget how much more he can earn in endorsement deals outside of Toronto. Now I'm not talking about trading him and blowing up the team, I'm talking trading him and getting established player(s) in return

What I would love to see happen (and I haven't and won't run the numbers because someone in the raps head office is getting paid a ton to do it) is see Bosh and the Hump to Golden State for Biendrins and Turiaf. Also, dangle our first round pick (and maybe someone else if needed) infront of the Bobcats for Diaw and see if they bite. Now I'm not sure anyone would go for this, but I think it would really improve this team and set us up perfect for that run and gun offence BC and Traino has been talking about.

P.S. Oh yeah... new coach first before anything else.

by SwirskysSoldier on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

Howland,

Have to agree with you. This team, if they are truely looking to move the yard-stick forward, has to go in another direction than Parker and Delfino. This team needs to add some grit ("some dudes" as Jack Armstrong would say) and it has to be at the wing position as the team's frontcourt (Bosh-Bargs) is based on talent and skill. In fact, I would love BC to get a guy who simply can't shoot jumpshots, and is thereby forced to drive the ball or do other things.

The idea of Delfino just frustrates me to no end. Here's a guy that is a FRINGE NBA player, curently playing in RUSSIA for Christ's sake, yet BC has been lusting after him all year like he's going to ride into the ACC next year on a white horse and score 20 a night... I remeber at least 3 specific occaisons where BC, unsolicited, has mentioned that we still have Delfino's rights, and how he will be looking to resign him, like he actually matters... I really can't figure this one out.

As for Marion, as per the Capologists breakdown, there will not be a lot of competition for his services around the league. Therefore, if the Raptors pay anymore than 6 to 7 mil per year for anymore than 3 years (he's 31!) they got robbed. Don't get me wrong, good player, does the things this team needs, but his game is based on athleticism and quickness and he's at the twighlight of his career. Not to mention his performance has been way down over the last few seasons.

by MAS on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

The entire plan for next year is predicated on what happens with Bosh. Colangelo will need to sit down with Bosh prior to the draft and determine whether he is committed to re-signing in 2010 or whether he will test free agency.

If Bosh tells BC that he is likely to return then BC will look to re-sign Graham, Parker, Delfino and Marion and hopefully add a quality player using the Mid Level Exception and a role player with the Bi Annual Exception.

If Bosh isn't likely to return then he has to be moved at the draft. In that case, the plan will change and in my opinion it would be less likely for BC to re-sign Parker or Marion since the team would be into a rebuild or significant retooling.

The first and foremost decision has to be to decide whether Bosh is going to re-sign or whether the team wants to sign him to a max contract.

by Bball on Feb 26, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

MAS - a wing without a jumper is like a pitcher with nothing but a fastball. eventually, despite how hard that fastball is thrown, hitters will adjust & be able to time it (see: koch, billy). without the threat of an outside shot, the opportunity to drive is lessened, since the defender will simply slough off him & invite the shot (see: moon, jamario). the same problem exists with marion, who's outside game isn't nearly what it once was, and is the primary reason why he's probably not the wing they should be going after - but due to lack of alternatives, may be forced to re-sign.

can't say i disagree with anyone's thoughts/feelings re. AP or delfino - they're both best suited as bench players; given the choice, delfino is head/shoulders above AP in almost every regard, and if he can be substituted for AP next year, at AP's current salary, then it'd be a good signing. he (CD) is basically a younger, more athletic version of AP anyway...and just as streaky. if he's your starting 2, then it's not ideal by any means, but coming off the bench...i could live with that.

by yertu damkule on Feb 27, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

SwirskySoldier no offense but Bosh and Hump for Biedrins and Turiaf is just plain stupid...

by syMMetry on Feb 27, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

syMMetry - I'm not expecting alot of people to like the trade but calling the idea stupid without explaining why is... well... just plain stupid.

You get two guys that can run the floor, play defesnse, and block shots. Assuming that the Raps want to go to a run and gun offense your bigs need to be very mobile. Thats what you get with these two. Not to mention Turiaf is a good player that has a real nice contract for what you get for him. If you have ever watch him play you would see that he not only has a good jump shot (for a big) he is perhaps one of teh best passing big men in the game. Its just to bad he plays on such a terrible team right now.

by SwirskysSoldier on Feb 27, 2009 12:00 AM EST reply actions  

Excuse my ignorance, though why would Parker`s salary count towards $9mill regards to the cap hold?

Love the idea of getting rid of one of our bigs a bringing in Rasheed at a discounted priced, though don`t see it happening with AI being let loose.

Question: Who would you take between Marion and Artest? I`ve always been in the Artest camp and salaries next year should be comparable.

by Acie on Mar 24, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions  

So the Raptors have to make their best pitch at Bosh in the next 6 months in order for him to choose to stay around... To get the piece they desperately need (a SG that can create his own shot) while remaining below the salary cap and building towards the future (and get rid of some bad contracts, ie. Kapono & Banks), I think the road that has to be traveled goes through trading Andrea Bargnani. He is the only worthy trading chip they have right now.

Golden State would be, in my opinion, the perfect fit. By trading away Andrea Bargnani along with Jason Kapono, the Raptors should be able to attract back Jamal Crawford and Kelenna Azubuike, two good SG (GS's 2nd round draft pick should also be included). Then by wavering the rights to Shawn Marion and Joey Graham, the Dinos could sign back Pops Mensah-Bonsu, and get some free agents to support their three stellar players (Calderon-Bosh-Crawford).

-->I'm thinking, go get Channing Frye off of Portland's books to be our starting center. He's a pretty skilled player offensively and he will provide a presence inside that can alter shots. 5.5M should be enough to lure him over.

--> Waiver the rights to Patrick O'Bryant, I think that would leave about 0.5M on the cap as that amount is guaranteed to him.

--> Sign Marcus Haislip of the European league. To be the main backup for Bosh. He's a very athletic player and has a pretty good offensive skill set as well.

--> Sign Quinton Ross to start at small forward and be THE certified defensive stopper. He's not the best offensively, but doesn't miss defensive assignments.

-->Sign back Anthony Parker to remain on the team, he's a very good overall depth player. I'd also like for him to be Calderon' backup, thus leaving the backup SG position to Azubuike.

Poof! Voilà! The Raptors have a revamped team that is much more athletic, has better ball handling skills and still has some money leftover, and a vacant spot to add another player during the season once their needs are reevaluated. We might still be a little thin at SF, but by moving Anthony Parker over to PG and having Crawford available to play some minutes at PG as well, at least that position is solidified. We could sign a free agent later on or make a trade.

Here would be the new roster:

Channing Frye/ Pops Mensah-Bonsu/ Nathan Jawai
Chris Bosh/ Marcus Haislip/ Kris Humpries/
Quinton Ross/ Draft Pick/
Jamal Crawford/ Kelenna Azubuike/ Roko Ukic
Jose Calderon/ Anthony Parker/ Marcus Banks

Salaries:
1. Chris Bosh : 15.8M
2. Channing Frye : 5.5M
3. Draft Pick : 3M
4. Jamal Crawford : 9.4M
5. Jose Calderon : 8.3M
6. Mensah-Bonsu : 1.25M
7. Kris Humphries : 3.2M
8. Marcus Haislip : 2.75M
9. Kelenna Azubuike : 3.2M
10.Anthony Parker : 4.5M
11.Nathan Jawai : 0.74M
12.Quinton Ross : 1.5M
13.Roko Ukic : 1.4M
14.Marcus Banks : 4.5M
(). Patrick O'Bryant: 0.5M

Total : 65.04M

*I probably overstated the salaries these guys actually get or will be getting.
**The free agent signings are to guys who aren't playing much where they are and who would most likely get much more constant minutes with Toronto which should help sweeten the deal.

Quinton Ross isn't a great offensive player, I've actually touched on that, but the thing is, on a team as talented as the Raptors would be with all those changes, he doesn't really need to be. He's athletic, runs the floor well and doesn't make many mistakes. Between Bosh, Crawford and Calderon, there won't be that many more touches for Ross, and if there are it will most likely be an open look off a Bosh double team or penetration by either Crawford or Calderon. There wouldn't really be any set plays for whoever plays 3 on a team like this. Part 2 of this is, Quinton Ross would cost just about 1.5M, whereas Marion would cost over 5M and Marion isn't really a very good creator neither. I rather keep some money and get just a little less on the offensive end. Anyways, if during the season they see that they really need someone else, we have enough cap space to make a trade or simply sign a free agent.

Channing Frye is basically the youngest PF/C that could come at a manageable cost, that can run the floor well, that has an outside game to complement Bosh, has the size and length and the skill level needed to be on this team. You can check his scouting report at (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Channing-Frye-85/). It actually reminds me of Bargnani last year, the only difference is, Channing Frye can get his rebounds. And I'm sure that just like Bargnani, once Frye gets constant minutes, he'll blossom as he did in his rookie season, and as Bargnani did in the second half of this season.

These guys would sign because :
1. Frye would get more money here than in Portland and more playing time.
2. Ross would get more money here than in Memphis and more playing time.
3. Haislip gets to come back in the NBA, and get more money.

The truth about it is, Bosh is an all star and an Olympian gold medalist. Bargnani is a player who has just now shown signs that he GETS IT and he's done it in the second half of a dismal season, against poor defence. I feel like he will grow to be a solid player; but he's just not as good as Bosh. As we speak, Bosh is adding the three point range to his arsenal. There's only about a 2 year difference between the two. And like I said, to get the players they need, the only valuable trading chip they have is Bargnani.

by Childlike on Apr 7, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions  

Where does the Turkalou signing leave
the Raptors re the cap excptions?

by moe Cooper on Jul 5, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions  

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