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Tip-In: Toronto Raptors Post Game Report - Old Habits, Same Result


Riding a three game win streak the Raps headed to Milwaukee to face ROY candidate Brandon Jennings and the Milwaukee Bucks.

It wasn't pretty.

Star-divide

Given what's transpired over the past week, you would think that the Raps would understand that defense is the key to winning ball games in the NBA.

Well, apparently not.

In a 117-95 loss, the Raptors fell back into their old habits and to no-one's surprise they got blown out.

It's really that simple. If the Raps allow the opposing guards to get into the paint at will and can't force their opponents into contested shots the result is essentially a foregone conclusion, even against a lesser and slumping opponent.

For those of you who managed to sit through this uninspired performance you saw a Raptors team that made Luke Ridnour and Roko Ukic look like guys who should be considered for the All-Star game. Yes, that Roko Ukic who managed one solid game while rocking a Raptors jersey last season. It's one thing to let Jennings shine, it's a whole different ballgame when Ridnour and Roko combine for 32 points and 10 assists.

One could easily point to the absence of Bargnani and Calderon as a reason for the loss on this evening (as done by Triano post-game) but to do so would be a mistake. Neither Bargnani or Calderon are good enough on the defensive end to have made a significant difference. The whole team did a bad job defensively.

It wasn't all just the Raps D though. The Bucks came to play and showed grit, tenacity and great team chemistry. Their defense was more than passable and their offense was surprisingly effective. They moved the ball flawlessly at times, didn't force the action and only turned the ball over 9 times. As a result players like Carlos Delfino, Ersan Ilyasova and Andrew Bogut didn't have to do too much and got the shots they wanted. Much of the credit for their offensive success has to be given to Brandon Jennings who already at such an early stage in his career clearly knows how to run an NBA team. He doesn't let the offense stagnate, can create his own shot and is a natural leader on the floor. To state the obvious, he looks like the steal of the draft thus far.

Perhaps the most disappointing part of last night's was Hedo Turkoglu's impression of Mr. Invisible. In a game where the Raps needed players to step-up and elevate their game to overcome the absence of Bargs and Calderon, he did the exact opposite. Turk had 9 points and did little to support another monster game by CB4. To be blunt, this is unacceptbale and disheartening but yet not all-together surprising. You can argue he is getting paid may too much money to have these sorts of moments and I would agree, but at the same time you can't expect him to become something that he isn't. Hedo does disappear at times. What I actually find more frustrating is that his body language indicated that he didn't really care about the loss. He needs to start earning his keep or at least playing like he cares about the results.

As mentioned in the Rapid Recap, the results in these Eastern Conference match-ups really do matter even early on. The Bucks look like a team good enough to play for a playoff spot and one the Raps will be competing with down the stretch. 

Up now for the Raps? Atlanta. I am not sure how the Raps intend to turn things around against this powerhouse. Maybe they need to rock the Huskies jersey's again?

Although the Raps have won three of their last four I am far from convinced that all is well in Raptorland. Just look and who the most recent wins have come against. None of those are impressive wins and tonight just shows me they have not worked out all of the kinks.

Unfortunately things are not such that they can be turned around overnight.

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Rock the huskies

maybe that will remind them that defence wins. I’m stumped by a guy that Hedo though, you would think that kind of contract brings a consistent performer. A problem with BC’s due diligence?
I loved Jennings though, seeing that kid up close… he’s the real deal.

by Scores on Dec 10, 2009 9:28 AM EST reply actions  

He really is.

If you were a Bucks fan and saw him and Bogut being all buddy-buddy on the bench towards the end of the game you had to feel pretty good.

Now if only they could get out from under Redd’s massive contract….

Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Dec 10, 2009 9:42 AM EST up reply actions  

Maybe they would consider taking Hedo back for him? If Redd wasn’t such a massive injury concern, that deal might benefit both teams.

by McGateway on Dec 10, 2009 9:59 AM EST up reply actions  

Not sure...

why they would take on a guy with more years leaft on his deal….

Just the though of having Hedo around 5 years from now is enough to ruin the holiday season.

Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Dec 10, 2009 10:14 AM EST up reply actions  

If I told my kids that Santa Claus wasn’t real and they weren’t getting any presents this year, I think they’d still be less disappointed than I am with the Hedo signing.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 10, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Otis Smith on Hedo

I was talking to a colleague in the mainstream media over the summer and he mentioned speaking with Otis Smith, Orlando’s GM, about Turk’s departure.

Let’s just say he wasn’t shedding any tears.

Not that Hedo wasn’t a valuable player to their team, but Smith pointed out defensive and conditioning issues and it seemed pretty clear that it wasn’t the end of the world that Turk was going somewhere else…

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Dec 10, 2009 10:22 AM EST reply actions  

Hedo’s conditioning doesn’t bother me as much as his inconsistency. I expected more from him.

by Member29 on Dec 10, 2009 11:20 AM EST up reply actions  

Belinelli

Looks physically out of shape. Anyone else notice that?

by Member29 on Dec 10, 2009 11:17 AM EST reply actions  

utes

what were the attendance figures last night?? … place looked empty.

by utes on Dec 10, 2009 11:18 AM EST reply actions  

Let's see.....

about 13 guys a side….about 4 coaches a side, score keeper, time keeper, 3 refs, Matt and Leo, presumably some Bucks broadcasters….

about 50.

Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Dec 10, 2009 12:15 PM EST up reply actions  

12600

is what was quoted on Yahoo and basketball reference. I doubt it was that high. The upper level was almost completely empty and you could see bunches of empty seats in the lower bowl as well.

by Rhinos on Dec 10, 2009 12:28 PM EST up reply actions  

No real surprise that Forbes listed the Bucks among the 12 teams that lost money last season.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Dec 10, 2009 1:17 PM EST up reply actions  

Let me first say I wasn’t a fan of the Hedo signing and I think he’s been kinda crap this year, and that definitely includes last night… Cool?

Alright. I have to defend him a little bit. Luc Richard Mbah a Moute is probably the best defender in the NBA not named Chuck Hayes. If I was to pick one guy to shut down Hedo Turkoglu, it’d be him. So, Hedo was crap, but he had a fantastic player helping him be crap. Secondly, I wouldn’t read too much into his body language. That’s his personality. Doesn’t mean that he doesn’t care. Some guys wear their emotions on their sleeves and he is not one of them. Doesn’t matter if his team is up 20 or down 20, you get the same Hedo. This isn’t a bad thing or a good thing.

by Vic De Zen on Dec 10, 2009 1:20 PM EST reply actions  

Man, that description sounded too much like Bargs from year one. lol. But I think Turk has flashed enough “angry eyes” at people (especially Bargnani) so far, but a lot of times, he is also at fault and shrugs that part off. Not sure what to make of that, but I think that kind of personality can cause friction with people.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Dec 10, 2009 3:58 PM EST up reply actions  

Raptors need help

Without Jose and Andrea playing the team is missing 30pts, 9rbs, and 7asts per game from the starting line-up..

Somebody needs to pick up those numbers if the team is to win.

The Bucks Jennings, Ukic, and Ridnour wiped the court with Jack, Banks and whoever, in particular Jennings dominated Jack who is supposed to be this great defender and so much better than Calderon. Seeing is believing.

Jack is a 2 guard playing PG, and a capable back-up, and Banks is useless, just filling up space, Calderon needed back quickly, as the offensive floor leader, as Rap’s had 68 FGA’s to the Bucks 80, and struggled on offense.

Nesterovic had his worst game as a Raptor, 2pts & 0 rbs filling for Andrea. Bargnani is needed back quickly for his impact on offense and defense.

Turkoglu and Jack, after having a combined 23 FT’s vs Minny had zero FT’s, unbelievable. Turkoglu was a negative factor on the game, unbelievable.

by Johnn19 on Dec 10, 2009 1:34 PM EST reply actions  

Even without Jose and Bargs though, shouldn’t this have been a much closer game though?

If it had been a low-scoring-grind-it-out affair that TO lost, fine. But to allow Milwaukee to put up that many points minus Redd and with one of the least effecient offenses in the league speaks volumes in my books.

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Dec 10, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions  

Absolutely

I remember before the season even started, fans were going on about how suddenly deep the Raptors bench is. These guys have disappeared on us and I’m not just talking about the last two games. It’s been a while since we’ve seen decent production from our bench.

by Posterized on Dec 10, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions  

Ok, now can the "Start Amir" crowd keep it quiet for a while?

Reality is, Andrea, as average as he is playing (in terms of what could be expected from him, his averages are not bad at all) does indeed change the spacing on O and affect the D both by guarding his own man and by being able to stay in front of opposing guards. To be honest after the “team meeting” also his help D was way better, so maybe it was not entirely his fault.

by renato on Dec 10, 2009 2:02 PM EST reply actions  

I’m not ready to jump to that conclusion unfortunately Renato – not that I think it’s incorrect, just that Amir didn’t even play much last night for some strange reason.

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Dec 10, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions  

Uhmm

I did not manage to see the whole game (fell asleep) but it came across as a good start by Chris faded away as the opponents could crowded the paint. If this worked with Rasho (who can usually hit the mid range J) it would have worked with Amir as well as he is not a threat unless he is 2 meters from the bucket. That means he and his defender would be stationary around the paint too.
Moreover I have to start questioning one of widespread (among certain people) idea that this team would be better paring Chris with a big bulky C in place of Andrea. To me it seems as A could use playing besides such player where instead Chris best possible buddy is a player of Drea’s characteristics; we actually saw a bit of this last year and while JO was not the worst case scenario for Chris (as he still had a mid-range game) he was using the same space Chris needs to have at his disposal to be effective. Jo + Andrea were working well; Jo + Chris not as much.

I know this may turn my fellow friend DS blue but (as one poster pointed out on realgm) whatever pairing has to work on O as well as on D and without an offensive player with the characteristics of Andrea the O (with Chris) becomes stagnant. On O an upgrade could be Dirk, (for the sake of the reasoning, then one has to restrict the options to include just realistic ones) but he would not help on D (he is worse than Andrea there) and he would need the ball much more limiting Chris effectiveness.

I do not think BC is surrounding Chris with perimeter oriented players just because of his personal beliefs, I think he believe this is the best kind of supporting cast he can surround Chris with to make him effective. This is why I believe Alex English is right when he says this team will go as far as the big man (Andrea) will carry them.

The point is we need the “normal” Andrea (the sharp shooter), not his sorry twin. The real Andrea would bring 5 to 7 points on average more and with better % and he gets his O from the flow of the game, enough for changing this team to a 50 win one at least.

Those one who want to keep Chris around should have to hope Andrea wakes up quickly, the alternative is to see next year a big C, with Andrea playing PF (and possibly flourish in that position)

by renato on Dec 10, 2009 3:37 PM EST up reply actions  

As one of those people who wanted Andrea to come off the bench

I have to say, they definitely seemed to miss Bargs last night. As it stands, I still think CB4 could benefit from playing next to Amir more often, but I may have to re-think that. As much as I think Andrea could provide some much needed offensive punch from the bench, if sitting him means the opponenent can fill up the paint and focus on Chris, it kind of seems like we would be tying one hand and one foot behind our back.

by Posterized on Dec 10, 2009 4:49 PM EST up reply actions  

I would say that Bargnani is quite possibly one of the top one on one defenders, especially against smaller players. Terrible and the help D, but has proven that he will keep moving his feet and stay in front of quick guards.

I was interested to see how the Raps would fare without him, and well, while I don’t think he would have led the Raptors to a win necessarily, he would have changed the game more than a little.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Dec 10, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

Help D is also about communication

and his help D became suddenly much better since the game in DC. What I would want to point out instead is that A seems still to be a follower rather than being a leader (He has somewhat confirmed this too) and the fact he should play the same role as the team star does not help.

by renato on Dec 10, 2009 5:52 PM EST up reply actions  

neat. my first ever post from a plane.

by Ustation on Dec 10, 2009 3:37 PM EST reply actions  

yahwnnnn

weak me up when you will post from a Submarine….

by renato on Dec 10, 2009 3:38 PM EST up reply actions  

lol. Did you crash the plane? CELL PHONES OFF!

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Dec 10, 2009 3:51 PM EST up reply actions  

RHQ Challenge:

First person to post from the moon.

Dave "Howland" Randell
Co-Creator of RaptorsHQ.com

by RaptorsHQ - Howland on Dec 10, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions  

Not anymore

In Europe we have seen (by no frills airlines) an in plane system for allowing the use of cell phones

by renato on Dec 10, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions  

Lol. wow. Over in JAL, they don’t even allow you to use Nintendo DS or PSPs at times.

Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious

by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Dec 10, 2009 6:27 PM EST up reply actions  

sorry I should have qualified.. first WIFI post from a plane. It was off my netbook. Though the turbulence was making me a bit sick! :P

by Ustation on Dec 10, 2009 11:23 PM EST up reply actions  

Forget about this one

Down Jose and Andrea, on the road, back to back, the beat goes on.
Only thing we can do is hope to get healthy and come out with a chip on our shoulder at home against the Hawks.

I tend to agree with Renato about Andrea’s defence. Think he gets way too much of the blame.

I’ll excuse the loss, when I put TV on and heard Bargnani and Jose were out, you knew are chances were not the best. Milwaukee got a good home record, and from last night look like a possible playoff contender. I llove what Bogut does. Devlin said he buys 100 tickets for each home home with the catch is that they have got to make noise. Placr still looked empty though.

Turkoglu has not performed to expectations, to put kindly. Last night we needed him to step up, and he was invisible. So far he has got to be our biggest disappointment.
While I crdeit Jay for giving Banks an opportunity, after 2 games,I think he belongs in street clothes.If a PG goes down, work it out between Turk and Belinelli.
Speaking of Belinelli, he is not producing at all lately.You can see how he can frustrate a coach like Nellie.

by Tinmann on Dec 10, 2009 5:05 PM EST reply actions  

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