A Play for Monta Ellis?
by Adam Francis on Nov 18, 2009 8:20 AM EST
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As most NBA fans know, the Golden State Warriors are in shambles.
First there was the Stephen Jackson trade demand, then some huge injury blows and now, Monta Ellis wants out too.
A 24 year old who last year averaged about 20 points, 5 assists and 2 steals is hard to come by and in all likelyhood, there will be a lot of interest in the scoring combo guard despite his hefty contract (5 years at approx $11M per year.)
Will there by any interest from the Raptors?
I doubt it.
This team hardly needs more offense and while he's a solid help defender due to his length and quickness, adding him to the back-court would
a) Result in a very small 1-2 guard punch
b) Hinder the development of DeMar DeRozan in all probability
c) Be an early admission that the Jarrett Jack acquisition was a flop.
However there is one way that acquiring Monta could make sense.
If Bryan Colangelo started to think that the Bosh/Bargs 4/5 combo just wasn't effective, and was dead-set on keeping Bosh next year, then a trade of Bargnani and Marcus Banks (cap relief for G State) for Ellis and Anthony Morrow works financially for both clubs. Maybe then Amir Johnson or Rasho Nesterovic is moved into the starting 5 spot and Ellis takes the sixth man role.
As well, perhaps the Raptors expanded on things to take a flyer on someone like Brandan Wright, or Raja Bell, in order to ease next year's cap burden.
Personally I'm still not sure either deal would make a ton of sense but we're asking readers to throw on their GM hats for a minute. Our recap of last night's loss to Denver and preview of tonight's match against the Jazz will be up a bit later this morning so in the meantime, give us your thoughts.
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Any trade ideas...
I’ve been searching the league trying to find possible trades…and the thing that strikes me is, how few teams are out there as potential trading partners. This is either because they are ramping up for the offseason bonanza or are still very much alive – and look to be season long contenders – for playoff spots. And on top of that, it all comes down to Bosh and what he plans to do next season.
None of the teams where Bosh might end up (New York, Miami, Brooklyn/New Jersey, Cleveland) have any assets that we would ever want – don’t even start with Beasley+Haslem…And any other team is going to have to deal with the fact that Bosh is going to leave them at season’s end.
Bottom line is, there are just no real deals to be had out there right now that would make us a better team. The only way we get better this season is when Reggie comes back, Jack starts playing better and Derozan develops…that’s about it.
Bang on
I ended up doing a similar thing the other day and wow, NOTHING out there. Like you said, the teams that make sense in one way or another for Bosh have nothing I’d want if I were BC (Beasley I like, but it would take a lot more than just him), and outside of moving Bosh, with the off-season spending spree, there’s not a lot of cap room to work with in terms of taking on other good players who would help, but have large deals.
by Adam Francis on Nov 18, 2009 9:32 AM EST up reply actions
We got Marco for George. Every team in the league will be low-balling the Warriors for Ellis. No reason to think we need to offer as much as Bargs to get him.
I was thinking that too, but the salary match-ups are tricky. Raps can’t move a few of their off-season acquisitions until December 15th, and the way the Warriors camp is talking, it’s hard to believe Ellis will still be there by then.
by Adam Francis on Nov 18, 2009 9:31 AM EST up reply actions
Excited for no reason
Dude, you got me excited for nothing. When I read the link on RR I thought you might have some crazy inside info.
I’m been wanting Monta Ellis for ages and yes, I can look past the defense. I don’t see any reason why GSW would want Bargnani when they have a stronger/better model in Biedrins.
We need to face the fact that we’re not going to get “equal” value if we trade Bosh, it’s just not going to happen, not if we trade him by the deadline or if we S&T him in the summer. I think the opportunity to do that was the past summer and we let it pass (good or bad, don’t know).
I think if we acquire a guy like Ellis, we’ll have to trade two of our long-term contracts (one of Bargnani, Turkoglu, Calderon, Jack and/or Bosh) just because we can’t afford to pay so many people.
Unless of course, GSW is look for short-term cap relief and MLSE is willing to spend, in that case we can send them the expiring contract of Banks and Evans for Ellis (that works on the ESPN trade checker). We could also substitute either player with Jack (but we can’t trade Jack before a certain date this year) if they’re really looking for some “talent” coming back.
It depends entirely on what GSW wants – cap relief or equal talent. I think we can give them relatively short-term cap relief (but I’m sure so can other teams) and if they’re looking for talent, I think we’ll come up a bit short because none of our players except Bosh fits into their style of play.
Sorry about the fake-out man and I’d love to see him here too.
But like you said, it’s a tricky trade situation because a bunch of the bigger contracts, can’t be moved until the 15th of December.
And who knows what the hell G State wants? I mean, they sign Jackson to a huge deal, then dump him for essentially cap relief. Are they willing to do something along those lines again? Or this time will they, like you alluded to, seek equal value of some sort?
by Adam Francis on Nov 18, 2009 10:02 AM EST up reply actions
Instead of taking on contacts of players Raps don’t really need. Just let Bosh walk, in the end and use the cap space to sign a free agent or two. I hope they do resign Bosh though.
Bargs, I would trade but for a traditional starting center. A guy who can rebound, patrol the paint, provide a physical presence (Oden type). Play 36+ mins a game. Raptors would still have enough scoring.
Cap Space
In the convoluted world of Luxury tax and all, wouldn’t the effect of just letting Bosh walk, create minimal cap space. As we saw this summer, if Orlando doesn’t bite on the Hedo sign and trade (we made it worth their while), we wouldn’t have had room for guys like Jack.
Oh wait …….
.
by RapthoseLeafs on Nov 18, 2009 10:17 AM EST up reply actions
Oh yeah!! Free agents love to sign for a team that just let their best player walk for nothing, great message to send. You could at least hope for us to get some picks for him.
If losing teams like the Raptors need to sign free agents, they’ll invariably end up overpaying to make up for the losing atmosphere.
That’s not necessarily true. They didn’t have to overpay Hedo… errr…. ummm, I’ll just stop commenting now.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 18, 2009 11:41 AM EST up reply actions
Ellis for Bargs
.
Why would we trade a 20 ppg guy (Bargs) for another 20 ppg guy (Ellis) — especially when the position would severely affect DeRozan’s playing time.
A trade like that would lead to the question: “Why’d we draft him?” … him being Demar.
Plus, we’re still relatively weak when it comes to our Bigs, so why weaken that spot, just so we can overload the SG position? Doesn’t even make sense. Fact is, it’s an absolute waste of time discussing it.
Which of course, I’m doing.
.
It is such speculation that makes these kinds of things worthwhile
Keep it up!
P.S. Hell no on the trade
going back to the well
I dunno, I think BC might have already milked the GS cow at this point. I mean seriously, Belli for George? He’s probably still feeling guilty about fleecing them so bad!
If you can get Ellis cheap you HAVE to take him. If for no other reason than improving you trading position. Why wouldnt you? Yes it causes some team chemistry issues, and yes it may not get you any closer to a championship this year, but it improves your assets and that’s NEVER a bad thing. Who knows, maybe with Ellis you could make a package at a sign and trade for Wade come the 2010 FA period….no way that package looks the same with Evans or Jack.
But if the asking price is Turk or Bargs (which realistically I think it would be)…no thanks.
Never underestimate the power of denial
Turk or Bargs
As much as Bargs would be a difficult trade for BC to make, anything that has Turk in the conversation is just a waste of air. No way in hell BC moves him – for at least 2 years.
.
by RapthoseLeafs on Nov 18, 2009 2:34 PM EST up reply actions
Calderon and Evans for Ellis and Turiaf
Have Monta start at PG, DD at SG and when Jack comes in for DD, Ellis slides to SG and Triano can then play his fav small guard backcourt. This doesn’t hinder DD’s development in any way bec the minutes that JC played will simply be played by Ellis.
Look up Ellis’ stats so far this yr and you’ll notice as a pg he’s averaging 1 assist less than Calderon but 7 points more.
Which of the two plays worse defence? They both are average defenders so that’s not a deciding factor.
Who has the better field goal and 3pt ? Calderon slightly higher FG while Ellis copnsiderably higher 3pt%.
Who is the better ball handler? Calderon hands down; one of the best in the league. Monta with 3 turn overs a game isn’t bad tho.
Who is better and creating offence? Ellis hands down.
I’d do the above trade in a heart beat and if we lost Bosh next yr, at least you’ve got another 20ppg player on your squad so all you’ve gotta replace is rebounding. If you keep Bosh, You’ve got a really dangerous team that will score at will while the defence dosen’t get anybetter of worse.
Ok i gotta get back to work; hope everyone will be around for tonight’s game.
since the two players, points aside are comparable, but one is less expensie than the other and given we have no problems at all in scoring, isn’t actually better to keep the cheaper and the less demanding (on offense) of the two?
Good Point but
taking on a higher expense in Ellis compared to Calderon makes sense bec Ellis does something Calderon can’t…. play SG, play SG very very well. A guard who can create offence on the wing is still needed on this team and 31yr old Hedo is only going to become less effective in the next 2 yrs.
now, possibly CP3 may be asking out, that of course would be another story, but not worth it even discussing untill it materialize
If CP3 is available at any point before the trade deadline, the Raptors should offer any combination of players — hopefully outside of Chris Bosh — to make that happen!
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 18, 2009 3:05 PM EST up reply actions
how much moeny does CP3 make? I understand your feelings, but from a pure risk management point of view (lnothing else) unless Bosh is immediately willing to sign an extension (or to commit to one) woldn’t he be the one to be offered? possibly there would other pieces involved too as we would have too many Pgs and They would not have any.
I apreciate there could be more than one legitimate way to look at this, so I would say let’s not open this particular pandora box as there is nothing to discuss as far as we know.
Monta Ellis is a headcase...
BC has always stated he’s only willing to deal with players who want to be in Toronto and want to win (sorry, don’t remember exactly the quote or interview). As seen in the past, the Raptors have ad chances to sign and/or trade for the likes of Marbury, Iverson, etc… however, BC and the organisation has always taken pride on having a team like setting and ridding themselves of what could be considered “cancerous” parts. For example, VC, Eric Williams, Antonio Davis (I know these players were before BC’s time). Point is, the Raptors don’t have any “cancerous” players on their team at the moment and hopefully they can keep it that way
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