Tip-In, Toronto Raptors Post Game Report - Mired in Amare
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Nov 16, 2009 8:12 AM EST
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PrintIn a closely contested match, the Raptors just couldn't find the final two points needed to beat the Suns. Vicious D looks at what was missing.
There's really little that I can see to get mad at after the Raptors loss to the Suns last night.
On road swings against the best teams the NBA has to offer, the goal should often be to merely have a chance to win in the game's final seconds and boy was that ever the case last night.
In what would be their first close contest of the season, the Raptors just could not seem to shake the Suns. Taking it to the Phoenix on the heels of the Suns' second game of a back-to-back, the Raptors ended up fighting tooth and nail right to the game's final shot before losing 101-100.
After a first quarter that felt as though the game would turn into a shoot-em-up slug fest, things seemed to settle down as the Raptors continued to keep a lead for most of the game but could never quite extend the lead for any significant periods of time. Without the services of Antoine Wright, the Raptors were forced to use players such as Sonny Weems and Marco Belinelli to great effect. Both were effective in the minutes given and Weems gave the Raptors a spectacular play with an alley-oop put back dunk off of a Belinelli pass.
However, it's Amir Johnson who really stood out for the Dinos.
Coming in to take over where Andrea Bargnani faltered due to foul trouble, Johnson was admirable in putting his nose in the Suns' business. He went to the basket multiple times and was rewarded for his hard work. Johnson always seems to be under the Suns basket for an offensive put back and was the right combination of athleticism and power that the Raptors had missed. Unfortunately, it was the Suns' own bundle of power and athleticism who simply abused the Raptors and had no equal.
Playing the pick and roll to perfection, Steve Nash and Amare Stoudemire simply beat the living daylights out of the Raptors all night long by making Toronto switch their big man on Nash and throwing Stoudemire under the basket while he was being covered by a smaller player, usually Jose Calderon. The Raptors just simply had no real answer for the Suns' tandem as they kept the Suns in the game whenever the Raptors managed to build a meager lead. Toss in more than few well timed three-pointers by Channing Frye and the Raptors' defense seemed to get sucked into the middle only to get bombed outside by Frye's timely 3's.
However, the Raptors kept making a game of it as Turkoglu and the rest of the starters also never let the Suns get too far ahead. It was here that the Raptors really showed the first signs of the year of being determined to stay with strong team in the final frame of the game. In fact, if it wasn't for some poor decisions by Jarrett Jack, the Raptors may still have pulled off their first win against the Suns in over 5 years. Nevertheless, you have to applaud the effort especially when on the road and the Raptors certainly kept themselves in a game that tested their resolve at times. When the Suns went on their run in the 4th to try and put the game away, the Raptors managed to come back and take the lead for a short while, indicating a mental resolve that hasn't been around for the past couple of years.
The fact that the Raptors were able to run an offensive set in the final seconds of the game with five legitimate scoring threats who each can handle the ball fairly well was a welcome sight. With Belinelli, Bosh, Bargnani, Turkoglu and Calderon on the floor, the Raptors had many options for the entry pass and score. Unfortunately Turkoglu fumbled the ball before getting a shot off in the final seconds that just wouldn't go down. Yet, as a Raptor fan, I couldn't feel disappointed by the effort shown by our boys tonight.
It's games like these that will continue to grow the Raps.
These games will toughen the team so that they can hang with the best in the NBA and continue to have a shot at winning. This team is able to score with the best teams in the NBA so with a little concentrated effort on defense, they should be able to ensure games don't get too far out of hand. As we continue on with the season, it will be the offense that keeps the team in games, but it'll be the defense that wins them.
Here's hoping that the Raptors will continue to build on this effort for the rest of the year.
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Some good comments
Great points in the comments section of last night’s rapid recap. Toronto had a rough go from long range last night, something that was a big factor in the loss.
Again, not a fan of the final play but had Hedo hit the shot…
Yup
Good recap.
I myself would have loved the win but……..that game showed me alot of good stuff that they can rally around.
Would have been a great recap (lol) if you had of dedicated a whole paragraph to the Marco Bellinelli —Weems hook up! I rewinded (rewound?) that play 5 times and how the hell Marco knew he was going all the way to the rim I’ll still never know. That pass left his hands when Sonny still had one foot on the 3 point line at the top of arc. That was sick!
Good game. Not great game but good.
I for one liked the final play other than the mishandle. I just feel more comfortable with Hedo holding the rock more than Bosh with the time ticking down.
Last point. I am Canadian. I like Steve Nash. BUT do they have to kiss his ass all night long?
Agree with being more comfortable with Hedo in late game situations over Bosh. Yesterday’s game was a prime example of why we gave Hedo the big bucks to come play here. In the past, the ball goes to Bosh and we all know how well that went. Now we have a proven clutch player and we should continue to give him the ball in these situations until a) he proves he is no longer capable of being Mr. 4th quarter or b) Bosh proves he can hit the big shots.
I agree! Hedo had a good look and the shot looked like it was going to drop. I would have also liked to see Bosh drive to the basket, but Bosh has a tendency to take his own jumper from long range in this situation and even he were to get fouled, I don’t trust that the officials would send him to the line anyway!
by Assistant GM on Nov 16, 2009 11:06 AM EST up reply actions
I know you were expecting this from me but....
… I do not understand why there isn’t in the Raps playbook an option for an Andrea iso against the opposing center. This should be this team bred and butter as much as the inner pass to Chris.
He has been raping every single C a couple of times in each game plaid so far, why don’t we make those two times, six or seven attempts per night? He has also shown along the years he is a good passer out of his drives…
Now I remember Franchise wanted to have some question to be asked to Triano for the next time they will attend a game
Could this be one pls?
Renato, are you related to Bargani? Look, I’ve been really impressed with Bargs’ growth this season. But you’re taking the term “fanboy” to new levels this season with your posts. No, harm, no foul, I understand that he is your countryman, but sheesh…
attack the post, not the poster, of course, for doing that you need an argument, if you have it, I will not have a problem in discussing it…
Fair enough...
Bargs is averaging 14 shot attempts a game, second highest on the team, 3 less than Bosh (17) and 3 more than the third most (Turk, with 11). I think that is about right for Andrea as a solid second option on the offensive end. Considerig that Bosh is playing at an All World level at this point in time, I think it is hard to argue tha Bargs should be taking shots away from Bosh. Also, while your right, Bargs has provided some good results when driving against his defender, there have also been some occasions of turnovers or missed drives. Furher, this is really match-up dependant, while he may have the advantage against the Chris Kayman’s of the world, there are times when he is matched up against 5’s with enough foot speed to force him into a less effective pull-up.
I am specifically referring to the iso where he is about 6 to 7 M from the bucket. I believe you can agree with me it has been highly proficient. Starting from the pre-season he has had,consistently drove (albeit never more than a couple of times) against each and every C, big and small starting from Dalembert to the most recent Studamair . The argument I remember being made was that he (andrea) would shy away from the contact, but it has been NEVER a case of he having faced anybody who could stay with him. Please let me know what C who could stay with him in such situation (he is not a C but this is the only name I could come up with: LaMarcus Aldridge).
I am not saying this should come in addition to the shots he is taking now, not that shis should be at the beginning or at the end of the game. I am saying this is one of Andreas’s strengths that the team, I believe, is not taking full advantage of.
Definitely
Actually, we’re just talking with the Raps about which game to attend next to finish off November…I’ll stow this query away Renato!
by Adam Francis on Nov 16, 2009 12:07 PM EST up reply actions
I think as a final option, Bargnani is a pretty good one as he’s hit some pretty big final shots. He’s sorta been just an option though, where the Raptors have traditionally allowed their PG to dribble penetrate and pull defenders into the middle so that they can have one person take a final open look…
However, I’m not sure Bargnani could handle a double team well as he hasn’t had much experience with it. The Raptors would need to draw up a play where Bargnani would do a screen and roll, or have his man go through a few screens so he could get set with an open look.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Nov 16, 2009 10:43 AM EST up reply actions
tough lost
Hedo wasn’t even suppose to play for a guy wit a bad hip he made sum amazin shots and the last 2 shots he miss pop in and out. That’s wut they brought him in for was to be mr 4th quarter and he almost delievered good game tough lost
by sherwin316 on Nov 16, 2009 9:09 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Hedo’s shot was a low percentage look. They could’ve spread the floor with shooters like Belinelli, Bargnani, and Turkoglu while letting Bosh take it strong to the basket (I think he’s proven he can finish around the rim or at least draw contact). And as renato mentioned, maybe let Bargs take his man off the dribble.
I appreciate that Hedo made a couple of big shots on TV last year, but the reality of the matter is that he’s not a high percentage shooter. He should be the 3rd option for the Raps.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 16, 2009 9:55 AM EST reply actions
I don’t really agree with that. Bosh’s game this year has really been in the post or taking a 3 (!!) this year. His outside shot hasn’t been as deadly as previous years so far and he still has a tendency to lose the ball when he has to drive the basket against multiple defenders.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Nov 16, 2009 10:46 AM EST up reply actions
Well, I wouldn’t say his game is taking or hitting the 3 — he was 5 of 5 through the first 9 games. The point of spreading the floor with shooters would be so he could take his man one-on-one, and if he gets doubled than he (hopefully) passes it outside to a shooter who is wide open with their feet set.
Instead, we had our SF fumble and almost turn over the ball before launching a low percentage, contested 3 over a 7-foot centre.
And as Franchise was just mentioning, if you go to 82games.com and check clutch stats, I don’t think Hedo showed up amongst the league leaders (despite making a couple of shots on TV).
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 16, 2009 10:50 AM EST up reply actions
I wouldn’t say that it’s his game necessarily to hit a game winning 3, but so far, that’s his high percentage shot this year.
Yeah, we all know about how Hedo stats show up for 4th quarters. I’m not a huge fan of that final play, but it was a bit broken thanks to the fumble.
I still don’t think that Bosh is your guy for an isolation play in that situation though. I’d be more comfortable having Jose or even Marco handle the ball to be honest, because Bosh isn’t a guy that performs well after the defense zeroes in on him. And on final plays, that’s what will happen because Bosh would have to wait for the clock to wind down. He’s just also never really shown an ability to power his way through to the net if need be without losing the ball. Unless he has deep post position, it’s a risky proposition to give it to Bosh.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Nov 16, 2009 11:05 AM EST up reply actions
Actually, if you look at the earlier comments, Assistant GM does make a good point about Bosh possibly settling for the jumper in that situation instead of taking it to the basket. I mean, 2009 Bosh has looked a little different so far — but does he fall back into that old habit in crunch time? Who knows?
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 16, 2009 11:14 AM EST up reply actions
or he fumbles.
I think I would have run a pick and roll with bargs and jose.
by benjibopper on Nov 16, 2009 11:16 AM EST up reply actions
Me too, use Bosh as a decoy if you’re not going to involve him.
by Adam Francis on Nov 16, 2009 12:38 PM EST up reply actions
I’d like to see some stats saying that Bosh is having a rougher year shooting from outside. I hated the 3 he took, but I actually think he’s been a BETTER long-range shooter this year as opposed to last.
I didn’t mind that Hedo had the ball in his hands for the final possession, but I would have preferred something going to the basket.
by Adam Francis on Nov 16, 2009 12:37 PM EST up reply actions
Well, I dunno how they would breakdown the stat. I just know from the games that I’ve watched so far that his far outside jumper (the one he used to do with Calderon on the Pick and Roll from just within the arc) has pretty much disappeared from his game.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Nov 16, 2009 2:43 PM EST up reply actions
And in its place, we have about 14-15 trips to the free throw line and much more aggressive behavior on offence — I’ll take it!
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 16, 2009 2:46 PM EST up reply actions
I would too. Just Franchise said he wanted to see numbers that he was shooting worse from the outside. That’s all that we were talking about.
We all like Beastly Bosh better for sure.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Nov 16, 2009 3:12 PM EST up reply actions
‘Disappeared’ meaning not going in, or ‘disappeared’ meaning not taking it? I think it’s the latter.
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Nov 16, 2009 3:19 PM EST up reply actions
It’s a bit of both isn’t it? I don’t expect Bosh to make the shot much because he’s not taking it as much. The times that he has, I’ve remembered him missing it, although I don’t have a complete stat breakdown on that one shot.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Nov 16, 2009 4:17 PM EST up reply actions
I think the ball in Hedo’s hand was okay, just not exactly what transpired.
Hedo and Jose are the only true triple threat on the team (Shoot, Drive, Pass). I think the play was for Hedo to penetrate and kick/drive against Frye, however the fumble ruined that. All that being said, he still got off a shot — which if it was anyone else any fumble and it would have been over and we probably wouldn’t have even had a FGA. That’s the Hedo advantage.
You could have had the same pick and pop with JC + Barg/Belli, but I think Turk/Frye + spread is better than JC/Nash.
Yeah, I have to think the plan was for Hedo to put the ball on the floor and find an open shooter. After the fumble, he had no time to pass and had to take the shot.
It only takes a minuscule amount of bad luck to lose a one point game…
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Nov 16, 2009 3:21 PM EST up reply actions
Coach Triano
Got to give it up to Coach Triano for the adjustments he has been making recently. Whether in game subsitutions or offensive/defensive schemes, he has been making astute decisions and is not affraid to change it up. Take last night for example. The “switch everything” defense they used to negate the Suns staple of pick-and-roll offence realy seemed to bother the home team last night. Yes, Amare went off for 30 due to dealing with a “mouse in the house” defender in the key, but the Raps did not get thrown into three point arc chasing rotations to often, which is why they were able to slow the Suns and keep it close. Cudos to Triano.
As an aside that Raptors intro, where Triano stands in the key, shrowded in shados, twirling the ball on his finger, in dramatic slow-motion is unintentional comedy gold!
ESPN’s Daily Dime covered this today, and had a great point about Bargnani’s defence on Channing Frye:
Phoenix made eight 3-pointers, five by Channing Frye who was mysteriously left open by a wandering Andrea Bargnani.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 16, 2009 10:21 AM EST up reply actions
Uhm that is a bit of a generalist statement statement which is hard to debate one way or the other. When I was watching the game I did not have the perception of Channing Frye being free because of Andrea being lost nor I remember anybody making such comment in the game thread (although I demand you people cutting some slack with me as games happen between 2-5am for me) so, was he?
Frye had some pretty clean looks.
I think when you’re facing a centre who chucks 3’s, the best move is to play him tight and give up the drive… because he isn’t going to put the ball on the floor unless he wants to get stripped and cause a turnover.
Now, this is where Bargnani is actually versatile offensively because he’s the 7-foot centre who CAN put the ball on the floor and blow by you, if you’re playing him too tight and taking away the 3.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 16, 2009 10:53 AM EST up reply actions
I painfully remember Frye having the clean look, what I do not remember whether it was A guarding him and if he was whether he was just wandering around or there was, like Vicious said, a team choice to collapse to the area. That statement (from the Journalist) implies Andrea was either careless or incompetent and I am saying he did not come across as either one on those threes, nor I remember anybody pointing it out, hence my question. It is not that we have not see before a Journalist throwing around as pointless as ultimative judgments.
The Raptors collapsing on D all the time is a good point to bring up because it’s something I think they need to get away from if they’re going to improve the team defence. Anthony Parker was actually horrible at this last season — always leaving his man to half commit to a double team, and then the guy would nail an open shot.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 16, 2009 11:31 AM EST up reply actions
I didn’t think Bargs was solely responsible for the open looks by Frye, Bosh was actually on him a lot of the time. However he does still have this wandering tendency at times. Last night though I thought his D on switches was exceptional, especially playing Nash on the perimeter.
My consistent issue is that 4 boards ain’t gonna cut it for your center…not unless a wing is grabbing 7 or 8.
That being said, DeRozan has shown that maybe he could be that guy down the road.
by Adam Francis on Nov 16, 2009 12:42 PM EST up reply actions
Like I said, everyone got drawn to the middle. A few points in the game, the Raptors had three people drawn into the post, so there were more than a few people free on the outside.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Nov 16, 2009 10:47 AM EST up reply actions
We shouldn’t forget that a central part of Phoenix’s game plan is to create open perimeter shots. It’s what they do. Nobody stops them from doing it at least a few times each game; it’s just too bad Frye couldn’t have gone 5 for 8…
I've been looking at the sky
by Back In Black on Nov 16, 2009 3:24 PM EST up reply actions
Exactly. I think people hating on Bargnani’s perimeter defense for the game are just doing it because it’s fashionable… At least for this one game. I mean, this is what Phoenix wants and the Raptors did get pulled into their scheme. It’s what good teams do.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Nov 16, 2009 4:19 PM EST up reply actions
Painless loss
I was scared to turn this game on because I’d missed most of the first quarter. Thrilled to see the raps hanging with the suns. Becoming a big triano fan…
Didn’t love that shot, too obvious, they were expecting that and nearly got the steal. thought hedo should have been the decoy for a bosh or bargs play at the rim…
by axl t on Nov 16, 2009 10:22 AM EST via mobile reply actions
Bargs/Frye
So,I guess when Bargs scores on another big its a lucky shot…but when another big launches threes over Bargs…..hes a step slow !!
An analogy I once heard,when a baseball player wasn’t having any luck getting any hits,and the reporter asked him ,all the money you are making and you cant buy a hit…the reply was….see that guy throwing the pitch? he is also making a lot of money so that I dont hit the pitch.
Solid Analogy
Still would like to see Andrea more active in the paint, but I don’t feel like his one-on-one D is as bad as some. It’s more on “help” situations that at times he seems to get lost.
by Adam Francis on Nov 16, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Bargs 2009
I think Andrea Bargnani has become the surprise topic of conversation this year, and as much as I disagree with some folks, I’m happy about it.
One year ago, Andrea was a “Bust” and people were calling for BC’s head for not drafting Roy (to wit 4 other GMs missed as well). You couldn’t find an Il Mago apologist anywhere, and for the first 3 months of last year it was maddening to read about how the Raps should not resign him.
Fast forward 12 short months later, and the Barganani love fest is in full effect. I guess my official stance on AB is this: he’s improved his long range consistency, he’s developed a dribble drive, he’s even had his back to the basket on a few occasions, in other words, his offensive skill set has improved tremendously. Defensively? I don’t think much has improved on this end. When you have more PF than Rs as a C, you’re in trouble. Yes I know, he’s not a traditional C, but I still can’t name many successful (any) Cs who has that stat, and it’s already happened twice for AB this year and one game where he got 5 PF and 5 Rs. The other challenge is he has a difficult time guarding bigger Cs from the post and also quicker undersized Cs/PFs from mid range. His lateral skills are non-existent. However, that’s very much true for JC and Bosh as well.
Anyways, I guess the deal is, I’m glad atleast we’re talking about him vs… well the majority of everyone else in his class that didn’t get resigned.
3PA vs Rebs
Another interesting stat to look at is Bargnani’s 3 point attemps vs rebounds. 6 times this year he has more Rebs than 3PAs, 3 times less, and 1 tie. On the season he is averaging 4.8 3PA/G and 5.7 rebs.
Because I’m too lazy to look — record in those games?
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 16, 2009 11:33 AM EST up reply actions
Thanks for that. Can’t say I’m terribly surprised (I mean, more rebounds equals more wins — who would’ve thought that could happen?). Haha.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 16, 2009 12:04 PM EST up reply actions
In our wins, Bargs made 11 threes with 34 rebounds.
In our losses, 11 threes with 23 rebounds.
yep, more rebounds = more wins!
Really interesting stat there – think that might warrant a whole blog post…
by Adam Francis on Nov 16, 2009 12:46 PM EST up reply actions
Defensive stance is going to be ON FIRE !!!!. You two must be friend, this is an assist haha, I kid, I kid…..
Haha. You know I was smiling when I read that comment the first time.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 16, 2009 2:24 PM EST up reply actions
of course
I can pictures you very well …. (if you haven’t seen it yet) (change outside game for rebounding)
Nice!
That’s totally me (just take away the glasses). Haha.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 16, 2009 3:02 PM EST up reply actions
What Happened To The Patriots?
In the 4th quarter they played like the Clippers only worse. LOL
Unreal eh? Best was I had it on mute while writing for the site and I saw them flash a stat that said “last team that has won each of the last 3 contests has come from behind for the win.”
Sure enough…
by Adam Francis on Nov 16, 2009 12:09 PM EST up reply actions
really?
Taking it to the Phoenix on the heels of the Suns’ second game of a back-to-back,
Didn’t they play LA on Thursday?
Pops?
I read in Michael Grange’s From Deep, the idea of bringing Pops back. He has a non-guaranteed contract, and we just waived Douby. What do you guys think? Amir has been providing us with good high energy minutes off the bench lately, so is there even a need for Pops?
I’d love to see Pops take Patrick O’Bryant’s roster spot, to tell you the truth. I think it was Franchise that mentioned in another post about Douby’s roster spot being used on an undrafted wing player who can defend.
And on that note, I’m starting the FREE SONNY WEEMS movement. Give that kid some more run at the two spot, and inject some athleticism (and hopefully defence) into the lineup.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 16, 2009 2:26 PM EST up reply actions
Can O'Bryant be released with some cash savings?
Pops would help a lot, especially while Evans is out. Less Rasho is good Rasho.
Nope. POB has a guaranteed contract for this year so you might as well keep him. If you release him, his replacement will cost double (because that would put them over the tax threshold). POB is probably no better or worse than any other 13-15th place player on the roster so why not keep him?
Also, if they are going to bring in a body to replace Doubly, it will likely be someone who can play the 3 as a backup.
I stand to be corrected.
I agree the kid has got game but how do you do it? do you want to bury JJ at the end of the Bench? If anything Beli’s play of late should keep him on the bench rather than the opposite, he is way better with the ball in his hands than without, but yet again, what about JJ?
I dunno. Jack is driving me nuts with the kind of turnovers he’s producing and his shot decision making. So until he gets it under control, I’m actually more in favour of giving Belinelli his minutes as long as he works hard on a defensive level.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Nov 16, 2009 4:21 PM EST up reply actions
I was replying to DS cry for freeing Sonny Weems.
In relation to Beli, I was going as far as suggesting to let him bring the ball up for short spurts. The point is JJ is not a shooter, nor he comes across (so far) as a specialist of cutting towards the basket. In other words I can see a (more important) role for Beli, a role for Sonny Weems, but, yet again, what about JJ? how do you recup him? If playing does not help, would sitting do?
Not ready to throw Jarrett Jack under the bus yet, but the guy is starting to have the look of those full mid-level exception signings that almost never work out (hi, Jerome James).
And yeah, if you ultimately bench Jack (or greatly reduce his minutes), at least you have the luxury of a Hedo Turkoglu or even Belinelli who can bring the ball up — although that’s not ideal by any stretch.
by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Nov 16, 2009 4:37 PM EST up reply actions
fair enough, but since you want to free Sonny Weems, how do you do it? unless you mean wave him ;)
In real life you need to be consequent, giving Sonny extended minutes means taking minutes away from someone else. Who is your candidate? How would you make it work?
I believe there are too many players deserving minutes, maybe a 2×1 trade will be put in place before Feb….
It’s too early in the season right now to bench Jack I think. But I also think that having Jack and Calderon on at the same time has run its course.
But Weems needs more time on the court. The Raptors need some wreckless athleticism at times and DeRozan doesn’t quite fit that bill so far.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Nov 16, 2009 4:38 PM EST up reply actions
Yeah, let’s pretend You are told that the Raps have drafted a Young, Super athletic SF who has brilliant hoops, a decent shot and nice defence but you do not know who he is or how he looks like, how many would point at DD and how many a SW?
I’d point at Weems in preseason. Now, tough to say because Weems doesn’t get the minutes to show and prove. But to me he’s farther along then DeRozan and is more aggressive.
by Adam Francis on Nov 16, 2009 5:33 PM EST up reply actions
I’d point the SW. DD has the ability to be a better player, and the Raptors are sorta in a “develop DD” mode right now. So that’s what they’re going long term. But if I had a game to win, Weems gets the nod in a heartbeat.
Kinnon "Vicious D" Yee
Author - RaptorsHQ.com Twitter @RapHQVicious
by Raptors HQ - Vicious D on Nov 16, 2009 5:54 PM EST up reply actions
Rebounding!!!
I have been pulling my hair out being unable to post since you guys joined SB Nation.
Finally!!!
I was all set to post a comment blasting Bargs and his putrid rebounding. Then it dawned on me, we have a 6 foot 10 inch small forward. Between Bargs and Turk, they are averaging the same abount of rebounds as Bosh. Unacceptable. We need more than Bosh and Johnson cleaning the glass all the time. Derozan may be showing flashes of ability on the glass, but he’s inconsistant right now. Reggie Evans may help this when he comes back, but he’s not an option right now. We need guys to step up right now and help pull down a few more boards. As far as I’m concerned, that responsibility falls squarely on Bargs and Turk.
Anyway, if we had lost that game to anybody else, I’d be super pissed. But I’m a closet Phoenix fan. I like Nash as well as Hill. So I guess I’ll live with it. I do think it is kind of funny that we brought in Turk because Bosh wasn’t clutch in late game situations and then Turk fumbles the ball. I thought to myself “Oh no, it’s deja vue all over again.”.
Deja vue and “all over again” mean the same, actually why am I even telling you guys, your French should be light years ahead than mine
Welcome back!
Sorry Renato – “Deja-vu all over again” is an expression. Translated litteraly in French yeah, makes no sense.
POSTERIZED – welcome back! Great to see that you can post at last and apologies for any frustration!
I’m interested to see the Reggie impact too. I actually think it will be minimal because to play him, you need to pull Bargs or Bosh out, thus negating their offence.
by Adam Francis on Nov 16, 2009 5:36 PM EST up reply actions
No worries
Apparently I wasn’t setting up my account properly. But the folks at SB Nation hooked me up and I’m ready to go.
I agree regarding Reggie. Which is why I think it is important for Turk and Bargs to step up and the boards. I think it’s been a pleasant surprise to find Bargs pick up where he left off offensively. He says he wants to make the all-star team, well, it’s time to take that next step and work the glass, because in all honesty, I can’t see the coaches voting for a center who can’t rebound.
Really?
I’m going to have to respectfully disagree.
What really shot the Raps in the foot were those 6 or 7 missed baskets in a row late in the game. If they could have sunk 1 or 2 of those, it probably would have been enough to put them ahead of the Suns. Still, I was impressed with the effort the Raps gave, I never would have figured they would lead for most of the game. I figured it was going to probably be one of those 125-100 blowout losses, but the Raps showed they might actually be able to hang with the big boys. Of course, they’ve gotta stop losing to teams like Memphis (who went on to lose their next 9 games after beating the Raps!) if they want to start being taken seriously.
free mr weems and sign the pops back
agree. sonny has shown me aggresive athletism and willingness to take full advantage of the short spurts of time triano gives him. seriously he’s dynomite. sick player who is still very young and can see him score 12 points a night if he were to take away derozan’s minutes. i understand theyre playing derozan because they signed him and feel he needs to grow into a special player, but man would i love to see weems play much more mintues. he’s wants to stick in this league and he’s playing his butt off. i say give him a chance, he can play. he showed it during preseason and now he’s playing well but needs more minutes. please JAY!
also wasn’t it reported that the raps wanted pops to try and play the 3 during this offseason. his athletic enough and can defend. and thats all we really need in our 3 since bosh, calds, bargs and even turk if switched to another position. all of them are scorers so pops can just bring the tenacity and rebounding and defence. he did bring life to the fans and energy to the team, which i believe is important to get the team going. i say lets sign him…. NOW
Having trouble shaking this loss
We’re not good enough to give away close games. It’s going to cost us down the stretch, either in getting a playoff spot, or in playoff seeding. I think Raps have a legit show at a 4-5 seed, but not if we lose this type of game.
Jose made a dumb play. Either foul Nash so hard that he can’t make the shot, or let him tie the game. I love Jose, but that’s a dumb play, and he’s better than that. I’ll bet he doesn’t make that mistake again.
The only solace I can take is that we didn’t have Antoine. He would have made the difference — he’s ideally suited for the switch-everything D that Jay and Marc installed.
I don’t see us beating Denver — Nene is going to go crazy unless we can get him into foul trouble. And Chauncey will do whatever it takes to win. I’d almost rather see a lineup of POB, Rasho, Weems, Marco and Jack the whole game, so we can save our starters for Utah.
What?!? You can't be serious.
I don’t like the idea of us laying down for any team. Whether it be Denver, Phoenix, The Lakers, whatever. Purposely laying an egg against an “elite” team in the hopes of keeping our starters fresh for a “lesser” opponent could cost just as much as losing a close game.
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