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Tip-In, Toronto Raptors' Post-Game Report: Youth and Inexperience


With a 101 to 82 loss in their rematch with the Celtics yesterday, the Raptors dropped to two wins and five losses in pre-season play.  Franchise recaps the game, wondering if it may take more than a season for the club's true potential to begin to emerge...

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Pre-season is a strange beast.

Remember in the classic movie Swingers, when Jon Favreau's character admits that going to bars that are hidden away in LA without any sort of sign is a "speak-easy kind of thing;" that it's like being able to show a girl that you're cool because you can find the place?

That's pre-season.

Yesterday, we attended our first game of the season via media access, as per readers' voting last month, and Howland and I quickly realized that it's sort of the "cool" thing to do amongst players and coaches; to quickly dismiss the importance of pre-season.

Take Doc Rivers for instance.

Prior to the game he joked with the media concerning his "excitement level" for the afternoon's showdown, and remarked that had he still been playing, he probably would have been cut for his performance to date, based on his lack of enthusiasm for the games being played.

And post-game, when some of the Boston media asked him specifically about some of the rotations he failed to utilize for long stretches (namely going big with Marquis Daniels as the starting point guard), Rivers intimated that due to the success some of these schemes had in limited minutes on Sunday afternoon, he quickly went away from them, not willing to tip his hand for the regular season as after all, this was only pre-season.

So here's my question then; starting opening night against the Cavs, do we see a Raptors' team that suddenly looks to be playoff contending team in the East?  Because right now, in my mind you can use all the "it's only pre-season" excuses you want, but this squad still has a long ways to go.

Of course as mentioned, you wouldn't know that by talking to the players.  Take the quick chat I had with Jose Calderon in the locker room post-game:

Franchise:  Give me an idea of how things felt out there today, are you seeing improvement in the team now that you're starting to get a few key pieces healthy and together on the court for long stretches?

Jose Calderon:  Yeah, I think we're doing good, I think we'll be ok.  We were competing like a regular team for almost three quarters, and after they were no more then 10 points ahead going into the last quarter so we were right there, we just need to clean it a little, it's tough.  I think we're going in the right direction, everybody's trying to get focussed and help each other...it's good, we'll be alright.

F:  What do you think about playing Boston twice, it kind of gives you a good sense of the level you need to get to because of course these guys have been playing together now for a couple of years obviously...

JC:  Yeah, that's the big advantage they have, they've been playing together for a while.  But we'll be ok, we're getting better every day and we're competing for most part of the game against these teams and I like what I saw.  All my teammates are working hard and we've got 10 days to clean all that stuff up and be ready for the 28th.

F:  What's the main thing the coaches have had you working on now in practice; is it on the offensive side of things, the defensive end...?

JC:  Everything (laughs), it's pre-season so we're working on everything still.

F:  Do you feel that the team's chemistry though keeps improving from your vantage point?

JC:  Yeah...every night, every guy is getting a little better, I think everybody's trying to know each other and I think we're doing the right thing.

F:  Speaking of teammates, who's the one player who has surprised you the most so far, who's sort of jumped out to you?

JC:  No, I think everyone's playing good, nobody's surprised me more than another...I know the guys and everybody's playing good and everyone's trying to get better.  It's a really good team, Boston, and they've been playing for a while and, that's the only difference right now.

F:  And how about you, yourself, how do you feel about your play so far?

JC:  Good, same thing, like the team.  Every day a little better you know, and getting ready for the 28th.  I think I'm doing ok and everyone's doing a good job.

 

So from that talk, it seems that all's well in Raptorland right, and the team is just waiting for the 28th to hit the switch.

However for those who witnessed yesterday afternoon's match, you know that this isn't the case and there are still a great many things to be worked out.

Defensively, the team is still struggling with rotations.  Yes, the Celtics are a well-oiled machine in terms of their sets, but much like against Houston previously in pre-season play, yesterday revealed far too many examples of wide open shots on the perimeter, and lay-ups in the paint.

As well, while Toronto won the rebounding battle yesterday with a 38 to 37 edge on the boards, this team simply isn't programmed to clean the glass.  If you watch closely you'll see that more times then not, when Toronto takes a shot, immediately after its release, four Raptors are headed back the other direction with only one trying to secure an offensive rebound.  It's sometimes a similar situation at the defensive end, something that just can't happen if this team expects to try for a 50 win plateau eventually.  Andrea is the biggest issue in this respect as while he played some solid man-to-man defense at times, he's still doing too much standing around on the perimeter when his teammates head to the rim.  As an agile 7-footer, he needs to be crashing the glass.

On the other side of the ball, you don't need to go much further than the club's 16 assists to 21 turnovers yesterday.  To say things were sloppy would be an understatement but again, hopefully with time this will get cleaned up as players get to know both each other's on-court styles, and Coach Triano's system.

However there's one thing that stood out more than any statistic or single series of plays during yesterday's game; this is a very young team.

Howland noted this at one point and from then I couldn't help but notice that outside of Hedo, and arguably Reggie Evans, the key players on this team aren't very old.  This is something I think fans tend to forget as Bosh and Calderon are seemingly elder statesmen in Raptorland.  You tend to look past the fact that these two are hardly Karl Malone and John Stockton - they've only really been playing major roles for this team as a duo for the past two seasons with last one being Jose's first full-time starting gig. 

And I think that's a very important point here.  Yes, it's going to take some time for this team to develop on-court chemistry, but it's also going to take some time for the individual players, many of whom figure to be key pieces, to mature.  At times yesterday Triano trotted out a line-up at times of Bargs, DeRozan, Weems, Jack and Amir Johnson, the average age being what, 24?

Constrast that to the Raptors' opponents yesterday, an already veteran team who in the off-season went out to get even more veteran help in the form of Rasheed Wallace, and to a lessor extent, Marquis Daniels.

Think that doesn't make a difference?

Doc Rivers post-game stated that fitting Rasheed into his team's sets was a breeze, mostly because he had played in the league for so long that he knew what pretty much every team ran.

Rivers:  "When we were running through one drill with Rasheed, he'd say "oh yeah, that's the one where Paul pops up here...etc, etc."  Many times Sheed would know the play better then some of our own guys!"

That's an advantage not only on the defensive end of the court in terms of being able to anticipate what the opponent is going to do, but on offense as well as players end up spending less time learning sets in practice, and more time on fine-tuning the execution of said techniques.

For Toronto, I like many of the pieces Bryan Colangelo brought over in the off-season. 

However after watching yesterday's game, I'm fully resigned to the fact that this is a complete work in progress.  When someone like Sonny Weems is the sixth man off your bench, we're not talking about just a month or two to get things down.  No, I think we're talking about a full season here for players to get comfortable not only in their roles, but in the league itself.

Does this mean I've lowered my 42 win expectation level for this club?

No, not at all.

I just think that provided Colangelo can keep the core of this new group together, the real rewards will be reaped not this season, but the next.

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Comments

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I agree with you, moreover if you couple that with the fact that the key core pieces of this team are under contract for several years, it means that greener pastures are ahead of this team.
If you have access to JT could you ask him if Andrea not crashing the boards on the offensive end is a team directive or whether he is not doing it but he would be expected to?
Another question: after the first two games against Philly I have seen no feeding the Ball to Andrea when he posts, was it for a contingent reason( they had to try something else, or they did not want to show a hand on something that is working well) or this is just the norm and those games against Philly were the exception?

by renato on Oct 19, 2009 9:04 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Good idea. We’ll be running another poll in a few weeks about the next game we should request press access to in November. At that game, yes, we’ll be checking up on Bargs’ development and asking Jay about his rebounding etc.

But you’re right, there’s been VERY little feeding the post regarding Andrea and really, nothing’s made me change my opinion regarding Bosh or Andrea being more effective when one of the two is not on the floor together with the other one.

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Oct 19, 2009 10:52 AM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

50-45-42 Wins

Does not seem likely to Me. My best guess (sorry fello Raptor fans is 35-38)We cannot give away 10-20 games in the regular season and come away with 5-8 wins and hope to get 40 or more wins. The east is going to be tough this season.

Cavs
Boston
Orlando
Washington
Chicago
Miami

are all rated higher than the Raps in my estimation. 2 surprises from some other teams leaves Us on the outside. Hope I am wrong but I have not seen much improvement in this team over last year I just don’t see any long winning streaks

Yes better option at pg
Yes HT is upgrade
DD not in my Books
2nd unit of Weems Johnson Belinelli has not really impressed Me so far

like I already said I hope I am wrong hate watching poor basketball and have the Toronto announcers continue making excuses for the poor play like We had to listen to over the last 3 games.

by Davl on Oct 19, 2009 9:18 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

bosh/bargs

renato…it was funny to read your comments during the game bitching that “Andrea has been asking for the ball…ignored in favour of giving to a surrounded Bosh”.
Thats exactly what I was refering to yesterday,there is only one ball on the floor..and when Bosh is on the floor ,he is option 1,weather you like it or not.
Taken out of context, it really doesn’t have anything to do with who starts the game ,it has to do with who is playing together at opportune times…I would like to see Bargs not play with Bosh as much to allow him more touches.
That was my point that you shit on yesterday !!!!!

by d279 on Oct 19, 2009 9:23 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Hi there, it is not so much a matter of “whether I like it or not” not giving the ball to a free competent scorer to feed another one as goof as the first, but surrounded is plain stupid, and I do not advocate stupidity. Doing that was a mistake, whether you recognize it or not. It will be up to the coaches (or to Bargs himself) to be more assertive on the matter.

by renato on Oct 19, 2009 12:46 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

“I just think that provided Colangelo can keep the core of this new group together, the real rewards will be reaped not this season, but the next.”

Couldn’t agree more. I’d like to see us acquire a slashing wing player that can create his own shot and rely less on the bigs to do all the scoring (Hedo is not that guy). Other than that the core looks good for the next few yrs. Ideally DD will replace Hedo eventually and we’ll find a reliable SG hopefully while having Bosh, Bargs and JC around. The future looks bright.

I hope to be entertained this yr but if we don’t win as many as we though I won’t be mad; I just want to see more effort, toughness and entertainment which will be a complete 180 from last yr’s awful product.

by Member29 on Oct 19, 2009 9:38 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I’m also going to remind everyone the first month for the Raps looks UGLY! It’s a crazy stretch and if they get anywhere near 2 games below .500, that’d be a success.

by Ustation on Oct 19, 2009 10:03 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I completely agree that this team seems to be more built for a post Bosh era then a with Bosh era. Drafting Bargnani never made sense if you were intent on keeping Bosh as every predicted his best position to be PF not C. I think things could get ugly this year as the Raps are likely to start poorly (tough schedule, lack of team cohesion) and it could bring pressure to trade Bosh even if they only get 50 cents on the dollar. I hope I am wrong but I have a bad feeling that by mid December this team could be in serious trouble.

by McGateway on Oct 19, 2009 11:28 AM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Realistic Expectations

Find myself sgreeing with just about everything being said.

Was at the game yesterday, a game we were expecting to lose, which we did. The first thing I said to my son was watch Ray Allen. Boy does he work to get open. Constant motion, sweet release.

Lot of talk about Bosh and Bargs. This has got to be the year where our offence moves away from Bosh. For years we have all said he should be, at best, a number two option. Well this year with Bargs expected to come into his own, and Hedo creating his own, Bosh should fall to # 3. Bang the boards Chris. Stop running plays for him, he’ll get his points through hard work.
Not criticizing Bosh, who has deservedly been an allstar for several years. But the decision on whether he stays or goes is not only his to make.

Am also incliened to revise my prediction, think I’ll take a pass for now. Fact is we are an unknown in this horserace and with the very tough first month will be the first to say “I have no idea how we will do”.

by Tinmann on Oct 19, 2009 12:00 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

It’s going to be very interesting to see how this offence develops through November. Like you said, this team CAN’T rely as much on Bosh and it’s imperative that Andrea, and to a lessor extent Hedo, get their chances. If Triano can find the right mix with those 3, and get some steady play from Calderon and Jack, the team should be a-ok. Not Orlando Magic ok, but solid nonetheless.

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Oct 19, 2009 12:15 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If Hedo ends up being the 2nd option on offence, bet the under in Vegas (41.5) for Raptor wins.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 19, 2009 12:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

re the Offense

The preseason has been about a passing, running, fast offense, with lots of passing & turnovers trying to get some familiarity with all the new youngsters.

The Raptors offense to best utilize Bosh, Andrea, Jose and the Turk must be a combination, based on the pick & roll/pop 1/2 court based, and up tempo, based on rebounding, steals, turnovers, fast breaks.
Calderon can run both types of offense and the Turk is best suited in a 1/2 court P&R offense. Both Bosh and the Turk need to be passing out to set up shooters more, as this has also been missin in the preseason.
The 2nd unit with Jack, Belinelli, Johnson, etc may be better suited in a faster pace to utilize their athleticism.

by Johnn19 on Oct 19, 2009 1:55 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

One thing I really liked yesterday for the first time this pre-season was Jose’s play. Was it perfect? No, but he was making a much better attempt at getting out and running and finding the lead man. Toronto missed a number of easy lay-ups off of transition plays Jose started so once they start finishing on these, this should lend itself to a much more effective attack.

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Oct 19, 2009 2:00 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Great post – I think you’ve really nailed what we’re looking for the raptors this season. Though the team is young, it seems like there’s potential to improve. We took a hit bball iq wise losing AP, marion – I will miss these guys – but losing moon, graham, hump, etc – they were just known quantities or too far away from servicable.

Just watching the game today on tape, it seems like the focus was on offense and I liked what I saw.
AB and calderon are getting some good chemistry.
Turkoglu has the right idea though he’s not executing as good as he will.
Weems is like a joey g clone, but one that knows his role.
The new improved Bosh is great, though he could still be a better passer.
Bellinelli, amir, and derozan all seem like they will get better with minutes.

Myself, I’m not all that disapointed with evans out because he’s hit his ceiling I think. He will be nice down the stretch.

Could go on about every player but I don’t want to write a novel here.

by axl t on Oct 19, 2009 12:14 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Another things

Those Celtics know how to treat a rookie who likes to attack the basket. Twice I’ve seen Garnett plant DeRozan on his ass(once yesterday and in first game after DD elbowed him) as he tried to dunk.

by Tinmann on Oct 19, 2009 2:17 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

Oakley

This is why you always hear Raptor fans bringing up the name Charles Oakley. He wasn’t an all-star by any stretch of the imagination, and he threw some of the worst passes you’ll ever see… but the toughness he brought is an intangible that has escaped this team ever since he left town.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 19, 2009 2:52 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Saw your post as I was writing mine – Oakley made people think twice. Latelyt it’s always the raps who are thinking twice. Have to say, Derozan keeps getting back up. I’ve come to think bargs can take a hit as well.

by axl t on Oct 19, 2009 3:01 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

If I remember my favourite Charles Oakley quote correctly, it goes a little something like this: “Pimpin’ ain’t easy, pimpin’ ain’t dead, the hoes are just scared.”

Somebody needs to print that on a t-shirt…

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 19, 2009 3:19 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Lol, yeah that one is classic!

by axl t on Oct 19, 2009 4:38 PM EDT via mobile up reply actions   0 recs

The thing I hate is how the raps never stick up for the guy who just got taken down. They never stuck up for jamario and I’ve always thought that was part of why he grew increasingly timid going to the hoop.

by axl t on Oct 19, 2009 2:58 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Hopefully that changes when Evans gets back and the team starts to bond more. I noticed in the locker room last night there’s still a lot of seperate huddles; Weems and DeRozan, Bargs and Belinelli, etc etc.

by RaptorsHQ - Franchise on Oct 19, 2009 3:44 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

Who didn’t see that Bargs and Belinelli huddle happening? I’m still waiting for them to film an updated version of that L-A-M-E pasta commercial that airs constantly on RaptorsTV. Haha.

by RaptorsHQ - Defensive Stance on Oct 19, 2009 4:05 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

You make excellent points

This team might not win 50 games this season, but the young guys along with the veterans may mesh and turn into a pretty good team in the long run. I actually like that.

Now, let’s just hope that Bosh will resign with the Raps. lol

by Frag on Oct 19, 2009 5:50 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

The "Punk Factor"

It’s no secret that the Boston Celtics intentionally come out and try to punk inferior teams. Hell they try and punk every team. By that I mean they try and win games through sheer intimidation and “swag”. The importance of this cannot be understated. Basketball, more than any sport IMO lends itself to the Punk Factor and the C’s excell at this.
If you doubt this, watch the tape from yesterday and focus on the interaction between Amir Johnson and Rasheed Wallace. Amir – who has looked very solid all pre-season -looked absolutely frightened and on one particular occasion almost left a puddle on the court when Wallace was D’ing him up in the post (he ended up travelling due to indecision). (BTW Rasheed Wallace takes the already high Celtics Punk factor off the meter!!)

While they will be better in this department this year, I just don’t think the Raps have the cojones to NOT get punked by the Celtics of the world… Will be interesting to see if they can break through on this issue this year. Or at least start punking inferior teams.

by MAS11 on Oct 19, 2009 8:49 PM EDT reply actions   0 recs

I agree with what you’re saying but at the same time the C’s execute like mofos and Capital C Competes.

I’m hoping this is the year bosh gets off the schneid when it comes ot players who perenially shut him down.

by axl t on Oct 19, 2009 8:54 PM EDT up reply actions   0 recs

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