3 In the Key – Toronto Raptors Game Day Preview vs. Washington

Not even a comment on the rumor that the Raps are about to trade Bargnani, Parker and likely Kapono for Josh Howard, Desagana Diop, and Antoine Wright?

I love this deal as it would finally rid us of the useless Bargnani, but sadly the source is hoopworld, which makes up most of their rumors. Oh well.

Oh yeah, Moon not playing tonight because his wife's having a baby.

While I agree that Triano has to make better substitutions and Will Solomon should not be allowed to run the offence during crunch time. Bargs has to take some of the blame last game for not taking shots (instead of passing them back to Solomon with time running out). Other than that, Vicious, you're right on.

HOOPSWORLD is not exactly the "best source". That being said acquiring Josh Howard would be a great move in my books. He's the three that this team has been missing for so long. It would also be a great time for BC to sell high on Bargnani given his recent play (unless you believe that the sky is the limit for him).

This trade just would not make sense to me. Howard is only under control for 3 more years tops, and Diop's contract is a noose around the neck of some team until 2013.

Ever the Bargs apologist, I think it's more likely that BC has realized that playing him at the 5 consistently is actually a good idea. He went to big man camps, learned how to handle the inside and bulked up, and then he shows up and we're asking him to defend 3's? WTF? Plus, I think BC has had JO's expiring contract in mind for some time as our only real trade chip; unfortunately, it doesn't become valuable for about 12 months.

Colangelo trading Bargnani, forget it, more likely O'Neal if he can find a taker.
Bargnani is the future for the Raptors, and insurance for Bosh.

I'm all for Howard... but Bargs in this deal doesn't make sense for either team. I will admit I feel like trading Bargs for the right piece is something that has to be considered... but as RaptorsAddict said... his play at C has been the best of his career... and that was against two of the best Cs in the league! I'm willing to change my tune on him and wait him out... to a degree... and I would wait over taking this deal as reported.

Dallas could use Parker... that makes sense. I don't see the Raps having any use for Diop or his ridiculous contract... but if that's the ugly contract that has to come back for Howard so be it... but not for Bargs. Now O'Neal makes more sense for a win now team like Dallas. They could use some mental toughness and some improved interior talent. But again his injuries ruin any trade value. But so should Howard's injury riddled year and his headcase status. I say trade one bargain for another. The primary players in this deal have to be O'Neal and Howard. It makes sense for both teams.

antonio daniels is on new orleans now in case you havent noticed...so he may be shooting 35% from three point range but he wont be for the wiz tonight...

The hell with tonight's game: the big rumour is Dallas trade. I refuse to think Dallas would need Dirk 2.0. I believe JO is much more useful to them as Carlisle knows him well and would integrate him quickly in their offense. Plus he'd provide them with $23 mill in cap space in 2010. If BC can transform CV in JHo then he'd be great again.
We have to get rid of Kapono and bring Delfino back to play the 2. A starting unit of Jose, Delfino, Howard, Bosh and Bargnani would be fantastic for us. The problem would be the bench, especially at the wings and the 3 pt. shooting.
Something must be in the works though based on how fast the rumour is spreading. It may be quite a day for raps fans!

Bottom line: if this trade was proposed a month ago you'd all be on board.

Don't be blinded by 4 straight good games--it just means he's due to disappear for the next four. He will never be a good player in Toronto, just dump him now.

Howland,
if you trade Andrea, what do you do if Bosh leaves at the end of next year?
I would offer Chris an extension, if he declines to commit I would trade him in stead. This is what a sound risk management move would dictate (and it has little to do with who you believe the best player is today, btw I believe there is little doubt today that player is Bosh). Andrea has not proved he can be a franchise man, Chris has proved he is not one. He is a very, very valuable second stinger.

A better trade for the Raps would be to give up O'Neal, Kapono, Moon and Parker and get back from Dallas, Josh Howard, Erik Dampier, Jose Barea and Jerry Stackhouse. Doubt Dallas would go for it, but it would clear a ton of Cap Space right before the 2010 free agency bonanza.

Casey--I'm tired of made up rumors (like the one from hoopworld this morning.)

This team sucks and needs change now. Colangelo needs to grow some, er, brains quick or else this team is going to end up with less than 30 wins.

Oh yeah: Bargnani will NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER be a franchise player.

Aaron

I'm tired of made up rumours too and I'd love to see some action around the Raps. I also really don't think Bargs is a franchise player, however, he's not a scrub either.

I really think that Bargs has a career arc like Mehmet Okur. On the right team, he's a very solid piece, but by no means a franchise player.

I was just offering my two cents on the rumours that are flying today, in that I would rather see us keep Bargs (and that O'neal would be a better fit in Dallas, like others have said in this thread). Therefore, to make a trade that involved O'Neal, it would have to look similar to what I had suggested.

I was not trying to start a rumour though, and as anyone who has seen my work on this site knows, I would make a lousy GM, but I do appreciate any and all feedback. Please let me know if I'm ever approaching the Marcia level of irritating (for those of you who know what I'm talking about).

Oh, and Raps win tonight, its a close one though, but they hold on.

Not to play conspiracy theorist... but does any one else find it odd that O'Neal has been sitting for this long after a knee to knee collision. This isn't hockey... yeah they sting... but I have a feeling BC might be holding him out for fear of doing any real damage...

Aaron: and you can make such a bald statement because....why?

if you put all your eggs on Bosh 's basket (why?) what do you have (nothing) in your hands if he leaves at the end of next season ?

Moreover may I ask, what has actually Toronto won in the (I believe) 6 seasons where Bosh has been the franchise player? Since the enswer, do you believe he is a franchise player?
Have you seen actually Bosh making his team mates look better because of him? (I believe this argument can be made about Andrea)
I do appreciate these arguments are debatable and let' s debate them with a pinch of salt

Renato, saying Bosh isn't a franchise player because this team has done nothing with him is a little overstated. Is Kobe not a franchise player because without Shaq or Gasol he has done nothing? How bout Wade, is he not a franchise player because he has never gone past the 1st round without Shaq? Even Michael Jordan needed Pippen to go all the way. Until the Raptors add a second banana (or first banana) no one can say whether Bosh is a franchise player or not striclty based on the team's performance since he has been here as he has never played with anyone who could be called a superstar (other than the year and a half he played with Carter and that was his first 2 years in the league).
The Dallas talk is just that, TALK. I do not understand why Dallas would trade Howard for Bargnani (forgetting everyone else in the deal) unless Dirk is making noises about not resigning whenever his contract is up. I know they would like to move Howard but I think TO would have to give up more than Kappy and Parker in the deal to make it work (Ukic would make sense as Kidd can't play forever).

big D - Jeeze, sorry, that was a complete brain fart on my end.

Trade - But yeah, I don't agree with the pieces for the Dallas deal in principle. What has to happen is a trade for O'Neal's massive contract as that contract is the one large trading chip that the Raptors have, and it's for a player that while useful, is overvalued. I'm not sure Bargs is overvalued at 6 million right now, especially if he continues to play center. Just look around the league and you'll see tons of overpaid centers, Diop being a prime example. In any case, until a trade happens, I really suggest sitting tight and not jumping on every rumour out there because I'm expecting that Colangelo surprises us by finding some piece that fits into the team that we weren't expecting would.

At this point, we have to look towards spreading out our salary structure better. Less in the PF/C positions, more in the SG/SF positions.

I think we're going to have to settle for some good, hard-fought losses until calderon gets back... I think you're being too hard on solo and giving ukic a lot more credit than he's due, though at least ukic is an unknown quantity, solo I think we've seen all that we can expect from him...

McGateway:

The Lakers and the Bulls fared (far) better than the raptors albeit without winning the title. The raptors have been almost consistently out of the playoffs. Even Bosh major success, the Olympic gold medal, have not seen him as the team cornerstone, he was used mainly as a defender and glue guy, hence my point: he does not need a second stinger, he needs to be the second stinger besides a franchise player.
That said, I still believe he is better than Andrea at this point, mainly because of Andrea inconsistency, although it is not all that simple to find consistency , in the overall averages, from inconsistent minutes, in consistent position and inconsistent involvement in the offense (as it revolves around another player)

But, irrespective of this argument, what about my "risk management" question? how would you guys deal with the risk of loosing both Andrea and Chris between now and the end of next season?

I still think BC has Bargnani eyes, and I think he should.His love is true. Diop has a role, but it he does it pretty well, bang and block. That takes the defensive beating off of Bosh, but lets him have the ball when he wants it. I wonder if there is a way to get Howard without losing Bargs? A Team with Bosh, Diop, and Howard beats a team with Bosh, Bargs, and whoever at the 3, but I still don't feel good about Andrea leaving T.O..

The rumour is all over, ESPN, SI, not just Hoopsworld.

Dallas wouldn't accept O'Neal over Bargnani - Bargs is the key for Dallas.

I, for one, would not do this deal. If they would take O'Neal I would jump at it.

Doug Smith says the rumour is total garbarge. Of course, he also thought that Mitchell wasn't going to get fired, but I would suspect he's right on this.

Vicious D - no worries, just helping out.

Re: the trade rumours. Its only appeared on hoopworld so far, ive searched ESPN and various other sides and have found nothing on it...and Jdbar said, Doug Smith is shooting it down 100%..and he seems pretty confident about this one and states that its way out there and never going to happen.

Now would I like this trade? Yes, apart from the Diop financial burden.

Gotta agree with the sentiment that JO seems a better fit for this trade. Mark Cuban's M.O. more about accumulating washed up big names then actual young talent.

Doug Smith although an informative read, also seems to be the last to know about most things as far as player and coach movements.

Renato, I can see how keeping a player around SOLELY as a backup for the franchise player leaving can become a self-fulfiling prophecy. Since hanging on to that player prevents you from exchanging them for value at a position of need, and thereby making it more likely that the franchise player leaves. In our case, Bargnani has more going for him then just being the Bosh backup.

Addressing your comment in specifics, I don't have a plan for the possibility that Bosh leaves. I think that Bargs ability to cover the PF and C positions is a plus. The only positions I'd worry about having holes at are PG and Centre. At PF, you might not get an All-Star, but the talent pool at that position (via free agency or draft) isn't shallow.

If the rumoured trade was legit, I'd be of two minds on it. From a pure talent standpoint, I'd echo a poster in the last thread in saying J-Ho seems like a prototype wing player for this team. A stat-stuffing buzzsaw in my eyes, while having the advantages of youth and a more well-rounded skilset then Shawn Marion or Gerald Wallace. The issue of above average wing player scarcity also factors in as well.

A question I'd have is exactly what kind of playing form is J-Ho in the first place. He's seemed like the perfect fit for Dallas in the past, what's changed?

A con is the garbage you take back from the other team, without including some of our deadweight. Antoine Wright doesn't seem like he has a definite NBA-level skill. Diop is too much a specialist to deserve the contract he carries.

If JHo really is in top form, I would think Dallas could get more in return then what Toronto's offering.

In regards to the JO trade market, the size of his contract makes it VERY difficult to find a match. The other team has to find a combo totaling close to 20 million to make a deal work. What team has that much salary that they can do without, that the Raptors would be interested in?

The only other potential suitor for JO I read about was Cleveland. And I heard they passed because Indiana wanted a center in the package coming back. Wouldn't we want a center coming back in any package deal with JO involved?

I would look at teams that would be willing to deal a center, and build a trade offer around that. My dream trade would be Caron Butler and Haywood for JO + picks + roster filler. A slightly more realistic one would've had JO and Jason Richardson as centerpieces in a Bobcats - Raptors megatrade, but no chance now that he's gone.

It appears Moon has lost his mind and decided to go home to be with his wife and new child. Now I am all for people being there when their kids are born but is Moon so sure of his position on this team he feels he can do this?
I say let Joey start tonight over Kapono. I would like to see how he plays along Bargnani and Bosh to start the game and having him guard Butler makes more sense then having Kapono try and keep in front of him.

"Bald statement," ha!

No, Bosh is not a franchise player either. Sorry Casey, I didn't mean to attack (you weren't being annoying at all), I'm just sick of those stupid trade-salary-match things. People just plug in names all day even if they make no sense. I only got excited because this trade was posted by a quasi-reputable source.

Crap, I have to watch the Italian Scallion again tonight. Ech. Oh no wait, it's only on TSN2, so I'll just check the boxscore after the 97-91 loss.

I agree that the Howard deal sounds good, but do you think that this deal elevates Toronto to contender status because I don't. The way things are shaking down in the East, it looks like the Raps will be no better than 4th (and that's being very optimistic). I'm not sure I make this trade for that reason.

I really think the Raps need to at least explore some trade scenarios involving Bosh; as much as I hate to admit it. He is their most tradeable asset and I think Bargnani will flourish if he becomes a focal point on offense. Teams would jump at the opportunity to land Bosh, especially Nellie over in Oakland. The Warriors are in disarray and have some very nice pieces that would fit well in Toronto.

To Golden State:
Bosh
Parker
Kapono
Moon
Humphries
Solomon

To Toronto:
Biedrins
Ellis (who is not happy w/ the warriors, and they with him), Maggette (they're trying to get rid of him)
Anthony Randolph (great potential according to just about everyone)
Belinelli
Marcus Williams

This trade works under the cap and is an absolute steal for Toronto even if it doesn't appear so at first glance. we might even be able to squeeze a first rounder out of them also because every player named has fallen out of favor w/ the team/Nellie. Toronto's starting line-up would be very good, and they'd have a deep bench, great young talent and most importantly JO's 21mil coming off the books so they could get back under the cap; which is really the only issue with this trade (and Ellis' knee). Or you could trade JO for contracts that expire this year and that way we would ony pay tax for half of the year.

Toronto's potential line-up:

PG-Calderon, Ukic, Williams
SG-Ellis, Belinelli, Adams
SF-Maggette, Randolph, Graham
PF-Bargnani, O'Neal
C-Biedrins,Voskuhl

This line-up would be competitive this year, while we also have good young talent that will be able to develop and make us into the Portland of the East, especially when we add another first round pick this year. Like I said, you would have to rid yourself of O'Neal to get under the cap, but I think we could still have some flexibility once that is done. Moreover, they could try to move Maggette and have Randolph learn on the fly, and have Graham behind him.

What do you guys think?

Rob

Oh and one more thing, this isn't one of those trades where the other team gets robbed; check out the potential starting line-up for the Warriors if this deal were to be completed.

PG-Watson, Solomon
SG-Crawford, Azubuike, Parker
SF-Jackson,Morrow,Kapono,Moon
PF-Bosh, Wright,
C-Turiaf, Humphries

They still have too many guards/small forwards but Parker's contract is expiring and they would have more flexibility going forward.

spread the word to G-State!

that is the worst trade proposal I have ever seen.

Speaking of Los Angeles...

I think the Lakers could be a good fit for J.Kapono. Plus that's his hometown ...I think...

LOL!
2nd Raptor fan... You have basically suggested trading the Toronto Raptors for the GS Warriors. May I remind you that the GS Warriors are 10 and 26 this year!

yardly :
nice post, one thing is missing thought: a last sentence saying something along the lines of: "Given all of the above I would suggest....."

I've taken that step by saying: Go to Bosh, offer him an extension, if he does not take it, trade him because you will not win with him (at least if you agree with my theory of him being a second stinger and you seem to believe the other pieces we have do not warrant another star) and you will be better off parting with him on your own terms.

A quick heads up
loose = opposite of tight
lose = opposite of win

well there goes our best cheerleader. man, am i gonna miss him. i know adams didnt do much on the court, but just on the bench, he was great to watch. im hoping that second round pick player turns out to be awesome... on the bench, aswell as on the court. lol

GREAT NEWS ABOUT THE HASSAN ADAMS TRADE!

We get a 2nd Rounder from LAC?! Wow! Hopefully he can get some court time too.

This is why I think we must get Delfino back. We ponied up two 2nd Rounders for him. Including this years 2nd rounder - which I'm not sure if we re-acquired.

Either we play Delfino or cash him in for chips.

I could live with both.

Delfino >> Adams

Sending Adams to the Clippers looks like a move to get Delfino... if Delfino will sign for the minimum for the remainder of the season and then re-up with the Raps in the summer when we have more cap room. If not Delfino then a 10 day contract or one of the soon to be or already released players floating around.

Either that or it's a move to get back under the tax since the Voskuhl signing would have put us over.

kind of a weird trade. Why Clips would send a 2nd rounder (which is what they gave up for Camby) for a player the Raps might have packaged with a 2nd rounder just get rid of him, is a steal. I think something would have to be in the works as we now have only 9 players who can currently play thanks to Oneal, Calderon, Moon and Jawai.

Oh and from VICIOUS D's post and Photoshopping - Would 'D' be happy if we traded 'Solo' for a 2nd rounder too?

Oh and a AB for a SG trade thought:

Zaza Pachulia is unrestricted this summer. He could be a good fit the 5 for us.

I beleive it was Mario Van Feebles who played will solomon in 'Solo'?

Hey guys for all my hq fans that have Rogers cable regreattably here is a link that you can watch the Raptors on tonight...This is a very good link they televised every nba game

http://atdhe.net/
Let me know what you think tomorrow.

HQ crew or anyone else, do you know when and where we in Toronto will be able to watch "NBA Journey: Chris Bosh"? (See link below)

Its a special on Chris Bosh and his career as a Raptor. Apparently it's playing tonight on NBA TV at 7:00PM but regretably, it doesn't appear to be airing on Raptors TV???

http://www.nba.com/PremiereNight/

Thanks!

Got news for ya VD- this year's team aint gonna turn things around. I haven't seen a team consistently blown leads like this since the 2005 Raptors squad lead by Mike James. At least that team had Mo Pete to hit clutch shots if things happened to be close in the final minute. However, this team lacks that particular luxury.

Casey,
You brought up old memories ... Marcia.

Renato:

IMHO, Bosh can lead the Raptors to contender status with a strong, deep supporting cast. That means we need multiple upgrades or players with the potential to be upgrades.

"Given all of the above I would suggest....."

That BC be VERY aggressive when the '09 draft arrives, and pursue all avenues available to move up, as far as it takes to get a player worthy of building block status on the wing, sidestepping anyone who might be considered a project. I'm thinking target a player who comes closest to a Thad Young/Rudy Gay type in terms of size and athletic abilty on the wing. That's an investment in your present and future.
Franchise and Howland are the draft experts, let's say one of the 1-4 on their prospect top five.

Take a look at the players from the 2005/2006 draft classes, who haven't signed extensions yet. Target anyone you think can complement the core we already have, who hasn't already signed an extension. Engineer a sign and trade. (ex. Linas Kleiza, Randy Foye, Thabo Seflosha, Marvin Williams, Martell Webster, Ersan Ilyasova)

These moves get us a step in the right direction towards contender status, using youth.

I see Renato's logic of trading Bosh if you know he won't resign. I can't see MLSE trading the "face of the franchise" until they absolutely have to, if they have to. If positive steps haven't been taken by the trading deadline 2010, that would be the time I'd be looking for other options.

oh man...ha ha hassan adams got waved by the clips before he could even put on a headband and wrap a towel around his neck.

hopefully the 700,000 will keep him warm at night.

can we seriously just release solomon right now? cause honestly..he is terrible...why is roko not playing? how can you foul mike james shooting a three with 20 seconds left...and then he argues like it wasnt a foul and he pretty much laid mike james out...you cant tell me roko is not a better option to have playing the point right now...i havent watched the whole game but roko must of done something terrible or pissed off triano cause i think i could do a better job of playing the point at this point...will solomon is garbage and as soon as calderon comes back...solomon should take over hassans role.

wow..... these refs are brutal tonight. Talk about giving the home team every possible chance to get back into the game. These phantom fouls at the end of the game with guys just going up for rebounds.... brutal.

Where is the same home treatment for the Raps?

Good job Raps tonight. BARGS IS THE MAN!!!

It May be a little early but......

BC trade CV for ford, when he had a quality pg in calderon.

BC Trades Ford For O'Neal When he had His own quality centre in Andrea.

That's some bad timing, each time an offseason too early.

Maybe TJ's helped develop Calderon. Maybe JO has influenced AB.

Paul Pearce and Celtic owner are azzholes.Artest fouled out and the clowns showed true Celtic colors but Houston have the last laugh on the clowns!

The Raps are only a half game behind Philly after 36 games. If I told you that in the pre-season we'd all have gladly accepted it.

Which team a bigger disappointment?

Switching gears for a second here. How about this Stephen Curry kid... man can he play.

I saw him 2 years ago at the NCAA tourney and the kid was stellar. Now he's raised his game again.... 29ppg 7apg

Wow.

I know they lost to Duke tonight, but this kid is awesome to watch.

Oops. I guess that was last years tourney I saw Curry at... feels like it was ages ago.

Mint, I think you're the type of guy who speaks before really thinking about things. Firstly, you speak of G-State's record at 10-26 as though it is incomparable to the Raps 13. Moreover, they have been without Ellis the whole season, have misused a great prospect in Randolph and have had a glut of G/SF that cannot all get minutes.

You're telling me that our line-up (post trade) looks worse than it does now? Take a look.........right now, go ahead, take a peek at it. That line-up has more talent than ours does, more depth and better young players; not to mention that if you can get rid of Maggette and let JO's contract expire you can be a player in 2010 with young and talented roster, like the Blazers (but without being afraid of a Darius Miles comeback).

Wake up buddy, if this team keeps going at this clip, we're going to lose Bosh for nothing or in a B.S forced sign and trade where we get nothing of value.

The status quo isn't working. At least the Warriors have excuses like injuries and chemistry issues; what's our excuse for only putting up a couple more victories?

Trading bargs right now would be a terrible mistake. He is only going to get better, we invested the time going through the growing pains, time to reap the rewards. I think we dont need any major trades, just hard work. We should fight for a playoff spot, hope everyone's healthy, and see what we can do. Isnt that what fans are supposed to cheer for?

If U missed the Detroit Portland game U missed a special game! I love the Portland Play by Play team best in the business!

Useless Bargnani? He is killing it the past 5 games and finally playing with some consistency at a very high level.

The Adams trade would look from the outside as a way to bring back Defino, though perhaps BC's public mention of it is a smokescreen so that we can make a 2 for 1, or 3 for 2 trade with Jermaine as the center piece.

I think I've mentioned before, though with the Blazers looking for a veteran big, and with more than enough pieces (which they won't be able to resign all down the line), it would make perfect sense. Probably La Frenz, Frye, Outlaw or Fernandez, etc..

Pull the trigger.