Tip-In: Toronto Raptors Post Game – Margin of Error

all the chat yesterday about Dalfino I would rather have Him than J (rapator) Killer. Really what has JK done since He became a Raptor?

I agree with your assessment of solomon, but triano should've had roko in for the last couple minutes just so we could have someone willing to go to the hoop other than cb. As it was, solo was forced to take some big shots on a already bad shooting night.

Dissapointed in bargs late as well, turning down big shots - though it looked like the plan was to go to cb, but solo never swung the ball when he got that second touch.

I have to disagree with this article vis-a-vis Roko and Solomon.

I think this game is a clear indication that when Calderon returns, Solomon should be nailed to the bench permanently and Roko should get those 10-18 minutes of time.

Will IS Mike James. 2 for 11, he takes the two biggest shots of the game rather than even attempting to run the offense. Roko would have given it to Bosh and he would have been fouled at least one of the two possessions--we still would have lost, but at least our offense would have made some sense.

Also, Solomon's defense is terrible as he gambles and reaches on seemingly every play. Roko's is bad too, but at least that can be blamed on lack of experience rather than stupidity.

(I'm tired of these Raptors me-first guards: Stoudamire, Alston, James, Alston again and now Solomon--get them off my team!!!)

Kapono, Graham and Moon truly are pathetic. How long will it take for Colangelo to wake from his season-long slumber?

I had a horrible day on Monday and just wanted a Raptors win to brighten my day; what a bunch of losers.

OK that Elson play where he TRAVELED and THEN lost it off his own foot (only to get the ball back

courtesy of egregious reffing) was gruesome!

It's nights like last night that I truly feel for poor CB4. He was 12 for 14 from the field for 31 pts,

grabbed 11 boards, dished out 5 dimes, played inspirationally on the defensive end... and the Raptors loose.

Seriously, this kid needs some legitimate help!

Sometimes I think we forget how fortunate we are to have him. He's not even 25 yrs old yet and has been

carrying a franchise on his slender shoulders for the better part of 5 years now and for most of those years

he's carried the offense with little else for teams to key in on defensively outside of him. It's a borderline criminal waste of talent

and the Kevin Garnet career parallels are becoming unavoidable. Sad. I hate to go back to this, but if you were

at the Dallas game and you booed Bosh you should be ashamed of yourself. OK rant over.
Raptors still loose.

loose = not tight
lose = opposite of win

Hope that helps! :D

Bargs played well but gave up a couple of shots late in the 4th to Solomon (maybe due to a lack of touches). Kapono was atrocious; and I agree that Roko should be there at the end.

Where's all the dialogue re: CV for Ford? We clearly got the short end of the stick here, because ultimately we ended up with JO for CV Smooth. Which means we are spending way more money for a guy that is on the sidelines half the time who has half the offense of CV. I think the problem started when we fired Glen Grunwald.

The Grammar Police...

You beat me too it.

sorry....my post should have read "you beat me to it"

Oh, the irony!

idiots!

When you correct another writer, be sure to proofread! ;) haha

I pray that JASON KAPONO GETs TRADED asap im tired seeing him loosse his man and get beat so easily and so obvoius and make stupid fouls and shots he's "suppose" to make he dont make its ridiculous

Flying J: HALF the offense? JO gets more points and more boards than CV in similar minutes. And is defensively far superior.

Solomon, is like a 2 guard isn't he. It's in his DNA, why bring in a TJ clone, he's just not that good. And it worries me that Colangelo thought this guy would be an addition, trust me Delfino isn't any better. What we need is that young talented prospect that does his own thing off the dribble and makes plays. We don't need dumb pg play, who shoots those huge shots when 1) There not falling all game 2) Bosh is looking right at you.
What's BC trying to prove with this guy. Why couldn't we have a guy with upside, this guy is a veteran and jacks it up from 22 feet likes he's MJ.
But on a positive note, I thought the team is playing better and does look more focused, but they still have brainfarts in the last 3 minutes of games and through some more Triano coaching I think that will correct itself.
I think my spelling is all good?!

Solomon, is like a 2 guard isn't he. It's in his DNA, why bring in a TJ clone, he's just not that good. And it worries me that Colangelo thought this guy would be an addition, trust me Delfino isn't any better. What we need is that young talented prospect that does his own thing off the dribble and makes plays. We don't need dumb pg play, who shoots those huge shots when 1) There not falling all game 2) Bosh is looking right at you.
What's BC trying to prove with this guy. Why couldn't we have a guy with upside, this guy is a veteran and jacks it up from 22 feet likes he's MJ.
But on a positive note, I thought the team is playing better and does look more focused, but they still have brainfarts in the last 3 minutes of games and through some more Triano coaching I think that will correct itself.
I think my spelling is all good?!

I am disappointed in the loss, but not in the effort. If Redd doesn't consistently hit ridiculous 3 after ridiculous 3 with AP in his face, the Raps win by double digits. They controlled the tempo even when Milwaukee made their runs. I just hate how players like Redd tend to go off only against the Raps with noone able to stop them (horseshoes...mother@#&*en horseshoes). I bet he scores 15 points in his next game. Then you have Ridnour taking two 3 pointers with the clock running out from weeell outside the 3 point line and making both of them. I chalk it up to one of those games where a team is on fire from all over the floor, making shots, contested or not. The Raps never gave up and matched the Bucks basket for basket down the stretch never letting up even after these tough shots kept dropping. It wasn't until the Refs blew that call on Elson that the Raps seemed to deflate...just my thoughts!

Agree with franchise here, useless to blame will. Thats like blaming kapono for not dunking, players are what they are.

I think the realtiy here is that this team is going to have to scratch, claw and fight just to get into the playoffs - bc just didnt get bosh enough help in the offseason and his moves (jawai, oneal, no wing support and no real backup pgs) have blown up his face.

And for the record...if bogut was playing last night, and jo and jose were there, im still not sure toronto could have won. This bucks team is pretty solid.

Looking at CV3, he's a mixed bag of strengths and weaknesses. More importantly, he hasn't refined his game as much as I though he would. His strengths as a smooth offensive player are still there. Along with a streaky perimeter shot. And to paraphrase a description of Jalen Rose, "The kind of guy that keeps both teams in the game"

I may be alone on this, but I expected more from CV3 at this point in his career. And this is said as a fan of the player, if not his game as a whole.

And looking at their development over the last three years, BC's decision keep Bargnani and trade CV3 remains a good decision. The way Bargnani bulked up, and his effort defending the post seals the deal as best fit.

In regards to Solomon, you can't come up a winner every time you shop in the bargain bin. BC was strapped for cash, and didn't want to throw Ukic to the wolves as the only pg backing up Calderon. Solomon's shot selection and game management are highly questionable, no doubt. But at that price point, the only things you get to choose are which flaws you can live with, and which you can't. Instead of arguing over pennies, why not support Ukic if his game is more to your liking?

Playing with 2 back-up PG's with 22 & 23 games NBA experience, on a team that has no one who can get to the basket but Bosh, and is PG dependent, is a recipe for disaster.

The offense, AP-CB-AB won vs Orlando, and the defense against Houston.

Neither was good enough vs the Bucks, as CV is always motivated to excel vs TO, & BC, who dumped him.

HOLD UP - Those who think that Villanueva is a better option than Andrea or Jermaine haven't watched enough bball.

CV has talent, but oh my lord he's frustrating. I used to live in Chicago for a while so got Bucks games all the time. Both O'Neal and Andrea give max effort each night whereas Villanueva usually does if he's scoring...otherwise...

That doesn't mean the Ford trade was necessarily a good one, but I think it was more of a draw then anything else.

And like the guys at the HQ and other commentators have been saying for a while now, this team needs more talent, especially at the wings.

And earth to Colangelo - Carlos Delfino aint the solution here. Team needs to wait this year out, do what they can, and then this offseason, take a long and HARD LOOK at what the club needs to surround Bosh with REAL talent.

As MAS mentioned, the KG paralells are getting scary.

is it only me or you guys are okay with okay wtith Kapono messing up all the time and gives up some soft and stupid fouls

That was just a horrible collapse once again. We cant get stops in close games

Never got a chance to see this game – Raptor TV, no thanks – but I wasn’t upset with the loss. Nor with Solomon playing the end out, if that was one problem. All that is minor to what the game was really about – AB.

And even though Sir Fess-Chucker of Star declared that Bargs is best not suited to guarding Villanueva (so switch him ... and get over it), what AB showed against Milk-a-Walkie, is that he may be that puzzle piece that generates wins at a very efficient price tag.

For all the frustration Solomon (and others) might have brought in this game, Solomon will most likely not be there for any big run. Maybe as a part timer. So why get stressed by a bad game of his? And it doesn’t matter that Moon, Kap, and Solomon had only enough points to fill an egg carton. Kap will eventually leave us. And Moon ... he might be out there hawking mouth-guards. The Spanish matador kind.

What mattered with this game, is that the Raps may – for the first time – have the 4 & 5 spots truly covered. And not at an overbearing price (we hope). More as part of that tandem that counts amongst it, a good valued Center. And a reasonable JC sticker price – someone we need for games like tonight. Especially teams that are 7 & 1 at home (since December).

Resolving this opportunity we have – JO is key here – allows us cash room to make more flexible choices at the 2 & 3, and whatever the Bench needs. One where Ukic would be a nice wild card to have. And where a benefit to this reasonably priced threesome – BCB – is how free agents may see an opportunity here. 2 starting positions available, decent money, and a great chance to make it the top of the heap. And even if we overpay for some of those spots, good players will make that difference, no matter how much hype they bring. Sort of like JO ...... but winging it.

Of course that probably means luxury tax.
But that’s for another time. Gotta go .... I’m calling some of my teacher friends.

Jomar,

You're preaching to the choire my friend. I gave up complaining about Kapono two thirds of the way into last season. Will never understand that signing... Not even worth discussing anymore. That horse has long been dead and beaten.

In with AGM on this game…there is always blame to go around in a loss but the truth is that was a freakish win by the Bucks and I'm sure they feel very fortunate to have won the game (they were out-played for 3/4 of the game). They hit a fair number of long, very low percentage shots in the 4th quarter and had numerous momentum calls go their way, which is huge in basketball (the biggest for me was the terrible foul call on Roko that would have resulted in an easy lay-up for the Raps but instead turned into two free-throws for the Bucks). Tough loss but the Raps played well, overall, considering JO and JC were out (our bench is thin as it is).

I whipped out my calculator and came up with the following numbers:

1. Dollar Value of all players on floor against Milwaukee: $33.5 Million;

2. I didnt add JKap's moolah - he gets a 'no-show';

3. Team Total Salary including Garbo Baggins: $73 Million;

4. That means JO+Jose+Garbo+JKap+Jawai+Hassan equals about: 40 million

Makes you think!

Hopefully my prediction of Kapono getting dealt will mercifully come to fruition soon.

Attended the wins over the weekend, Solomon and Ukic played well...but...we suck now without two good PGs realy; that was last year's advantage and now we don't have shit for an advantage.

Well I posted just to brag that I actually went to some games....I didn't boo T-Mac, but he was very passive and that could have been any of us playing out there for him, he was that pathetic. (well I'm pretty good, but I'm sure most of you actually suck in real life...just kidding.)

Quiet night here .. so what the hell. Tried out a swap on the GM trade ticker, and it worked. But being as I’m more a laymen then some serviceable GM, I was wondering how far fetched a trade with Denver might be.

To Denver – JO and Moon
To Toronto – Kenyon Martin, Chucky Atkins & Steven Hunter

JO allows Denver to move Nene to PF. Anthony is on the 3 (when he`s back), Smith (and/or Kleiza) at the 2, and Chauncey at PG. Denver seems to have an abundance of guard / forward types, and not enough quality big men. Moon adds a little zip to the Bench (at a cheap price).

Raptors get a 3 in Kenyon – even if he’s done the knee thing too – as well as take on some contracts like Atkins & Hunter (who’s hurt). The latter 2 have this year and next left on their contracts – respectively. Mostly though, they make the numbers work better. And no stiff contracts on the books.

Chauncey will be 33 in 2009, so time is running on him. Denver has a decent team, but in the West, good isn’t good enough. And if it doesn’t work this year for Denver, JO’s contract will be worth something next season ... kinda like Cap Gold. Or they could wait for the 2010 sweepstakes themselves, and use that "saved" cash elsewhere – 23 million goes a long way. Billups will be 34 when that year begins – still time for him and Denver. Overall, a 3 year window of championship opportunities, with Chauncey in his prime.

For Toronto, we free up AB to start (our achilles heel right now), and patch the 3 spot with more consistency. In effect, transferring JO’s numbers to the forward spot. We might be taking an extra year with Martin (at 16.5 million), but I’m sure an expiring contract will be easier to move in the year Bosh returns. Which we all hope will happen. CB will let this year go if he sees the rainbow at the end. Next year has to be positive for that to happen.

I guess it's so quiet here because the Bosh vs. Bargnani camps are at peace as both of them are putting up numbers while on the floor at the same time. JO's contract being moved for wing help would really balance out this team nicely, but I think the primary motivator behind making such a move this year would be to free up playing time for Bargnani. I think it's time for an extended run at the 5. As I've brought up before, give him his minutes, let him work out the kinks in his game and gain a clear picture of the team's key pieces moving forward. This year's team is so depleted at the wing that the strength in the front court is really going to waste. I honestly didn't expect such a drop-off in Anthony Parker's play and I think this is contributing more to the lack of success than anything. In 06/07 he was good in a lot of games, even when not scoring, because he defended adequately. In 07/08 he was good maybe every other game. In 08/09, we see good Parker, once every three games or so. The drop off has been substantial.

Question though on trying to acquire that wing via trade -- does BC aim for an established wing piece with very few unknowns to his game ala Marion, a poor value (meaning he's probably being paid too much for what he brings to his team) wing who has shown serious promise in previous years ala Deng, or a young up and coming prospect on a team overloaded at his position that might appreciate cap room to re-up some of its own key pieces in the future. It would be interesting to figure out what type of wing he's looking for, whether he's thinking short term or long term.

Wow,
3 good games and Bargnani has gone from bust to cornerstone! Truth is, I agree. I don't agree that we move JO for anything other than a solution at the wing. An upgrade is not enough. Bargs is doing well, but he and Bosh still need a big talent to take some of the weight. Hopefully JO plays some solid minutes consistently. Between the PF and C positons, you have 96 minutes. You can get each guy 30+ a night if you want. Even dropping one's minutes a bit gives a bit of a rest and keeps them all playing significant minutes.
Maybe we need to learn to do more with 3 capable bigs than to just seize the offence by throwing it inside all the time.

Regarding Wing Players:

OPTION A - DRAFTING
1. Tyler Smith at the SF;

2. That Aminu kid at SG, Franchise and the HQ folk are big on him (scouts look at him more favourably than Luol Deng)

OPTION B - TRADING FOR YOUTH ON THE WING

1. Players like Sefolosha, Tyrus Thomas, Azubuike, Bellinelli, A.Randolph are good targets - to name a few;

OPTION C - TRADE FOR TOP TIER SF

1. Gerald Wallace - You break him, you bought him;

2. Corey Magette - Selfish, and a little injury prone.

Any others?! Salmons to start at SG - if they take Kapono - highly unlikely....

Apparently the Raptors are close to TRADING:

Andrea Bargnani and Anhtony Parker to Dalls for . . .

Josh Howard, Desagna Diop and Antoine Wright!!!!

Wow, the report (http://www.hoopsworld.com/Story.asp?story_id=11144)

Yeah I read that rumour about the trade with Dallas well. I got excited for a minute then stopped and thought about it. How does this trade make sense for Dallas? Yes they get rid of a guy having a down year and whom the fans have turned on a bit (plus he is an injury concern) but Andrea does them no good unless they are hedging their bets with Dirk. I like this trade for Toronto as Howard and Diop would be nice additions. Wright would be a nice bonus as well but it seems like Toronto is getting all the players in this deal so I cannot imagine it actually happening.

mavs win long term on that trade...

I am not sure the Mavs do. If Bargnani ends up being as good (or near as good as Dirk) then maybe they do but if what we see is what we get from Bargs then Toronto wins. I think Bargnani will be a good player in this league but I don't think he will ever be an elite player. Howard is an improvement for the Raps on the wing but he is hardly the franchise saviour this team seems to need so I can see why you would think that. The real keys for me are Diop and Wright as Diops body can have a huge impact spelling Oneal and Bosh and Wright could be a very nice 6th or 7th player if he gets more playing time(of course he could be a complete waste of time too). We all saw how Devin Harris improved massively when he got away from Dirk and Howard could benefit from that as well. I think it is a moot point as the trade will never happen.
Mannix made an interesting trade suggestion between Boston and Toronto. Scalabrine and House (plus a pick) for Kapono. It doesn't make much sense for either team as House is currently the only guy Boston can count on to score from the bench so trading him away for a weak and slow defender doesn't make much sense. I like this trade more if they sub Tony Allen for House. Allen's defense and ball handling would be a welcome addition to Toronto and Boston would then have 2 options offensively off the bench.

I read the article and the salaries don’t match. Kapono would have to be included as Diop and Howard’s salaries combined equal close to 16 mil. However,
I do that deal even with Kapono involved. In fact, I would prefer to get Kapono’s contract out of here. Raptors win this deal now, and later. Howard is the prototypical small forward and Diop is the rebounding, shot-blocking centre that would fit nicely with CB4. However, I don’t see this deal getting done as I don’t see the value for Dallas.

I could see a deal where Kapono is sent to Miami for Halsem. Salaries work, and Kapono is still beloved in Miami. Plus, Haslem is somewhat redundant with Beasley and Marion there.

I think that Hoopsworld tease is a load of crap. For all we know "BIG BLOCKBUSTER BREWING" is a Hoopsworld hack trying to stir up traffic for the site.

But does JO to Dallas for Howard and say Dampier's large 3-year contract make sense for both teams? If I was GM and that deal was on the table, I might even throw in our 2009 1st rounder.