Tough Enough

Could you also include Humps in that tough guy mode? He is not afraid to mix it up, and with a little more consistent minutes could provide a toughness edge too.

I hope to see a little more of him this year.

It's true that Vince was a lot more fearless when he had Tonio and Oakley upfront. But the same argument could be said in his first year with Kevin Willis as the centre. I think that Vince slowly lost interest in the future of the Raptors. Whether it be personal problems or not, Carter's game has deteriorated considerably.
The unfortunate fact is Tracy McGrady, Chauncy Billups, and Lindsey Hunter are the only former Raptors that have played better after they have been traded. While the likes of Vince Carter, Damon Stoudamire, Keon Clark, and Doug Christie games have all depleted after being traded from the Raptors.
I am confident that we will see a more physical team this coming season. Jermaine O'Neal and Bosh will be a formidable tandem in the middle. Jamario and Parker should have a considerable amount of open lanes to operate with the the two big screeners. I would have still looked at a player like Ryan Gomes instead of Hassan Adams to start at the SF spot instead of Moon. Jamario services are better suited for a spark of the bench.

All-Time Raptor Wimps...

Starters
PG: There haven't been many, so I'll go for BJ Armstrong (who refused to come to T.O. after the expansion draft)
SG: Vince
SF: Chris Jeffries
PF: Bargnani
C: Loren Woods

That lineup would get 0 charges, 2 rebounds, and 4 FTs per game combined.

Bench:
Marcus Camby
Hubert Davis
Robert Archibald
Michael Bradley
Nate Huffman
Zan Tabak
Walt Williams
Tracy Murray
Charlie V

woah. charlie V a wimp. are you kidding. he had a lot of nastiness in him with his glaring eyes at the ref and players after his furocious dunks. we just didnt have enough time to actually see Charlie, but believe me he is no wimp.

Yeah...CV Smooth wouldn't be on my all-time wimp list either.

Something I didn't put in the article but would be interesting to see, if you could chart things like VC's free-throw attempts per game with Oak, AD and co., and after. Correlation isn't causation but it might be revealing.

interesting read. bosh to orlando. scary actually.

http://magic.realgm.com/articles/66/20080803/bosh_to_orlando_in_2012/

All time whimps are Vince hands down with Loren Woods in the running.

I like this year's overall toughness.

I saw a vintage game last week too and know exactly what you mean with Davis and Oak.

I guess I should add something semi original.

I think O'Neal will bring out more toughness in Bosh, and we'll be quite tough up front.

Hopefully we won't see so many opposing players consistently climbing our guys' backs to get rebounds, I'm not sure I could go through another season of that.

Lindsay Hunter, I though he was washed up when we traded him, but he bounced back decently.

Can't see Bosh in Orlando and there are a few reasons why.

One because Hedo has a player option for the 08-09 season he will likely opt out because it will only pay him 7 million a year which is not enough for an allstar player.

Orlando will not let him walk away despite the tempting free agent class because without Hedo they will not be in the playoff hunt. He will likely resign for about 10 million a season.

So between Hedo, Rashard and Dwight the Magic will be paying 45 million dollars.

Combined with the other contacts of role players like Nelson and Pietrius, draft picks and players to meet the league minimum they won't be able to afford bosh because they will be absolutely slammed by the luxury tax.

They can try and do a sign and trade but there is nobody other than Howard that Bosh would be dealt for on the Magic.

THe only they chance they have of landing Bosh is if they can move Rashard's contract for expiring contacts and some spare parts...however I don't see that happening.

It all comes down to a major major risk and history as shown that teams won't take that big a risk.

They'd basically have to lose Hedo for nothing (nobody just lets an allstar caliber player walk away especially when he's continued to improve) and then they have to hope that Bosh opts out and then they have to hope that Bosh would be willing to take less money since the Raps would be able to offer him more than anyone.

Thats a bit too much too hope for and I don't think they'll take that chance.

All time raptor wimps/chumps = Kenny Anderson & Alonzo Mourning.

Hi Franchise,
Just thought i'd give you props from the west coast (Victoria, B.C.). Your blog rocks, it's always insightful. Keep it up.

I see to recall seeing more of a difference in Tracy McGrady once we got Oak. (It didn't hurt that he had probably grown a few inches from his rookie season and put on some muscles for the first time.)

I can recall him in the first game of the season with Oak getting a blocking call, pumping his fist and glaring down at whoever it was. He definitely developed an overnight swagger that he hadn't before, and other teams definitley seemed way more apprehensive playing against the toughened-up raps!

Charlie V may have "the stare", but his rebounding numbers always seemed pretty low for his size and skillset. For some reason he always had the soft/finesse label on him.

Actually - he was/is kinda similar to John Wallace from back in the day... great mid-post game, decent overall skills, but sometimes doesn't look 100% interested in the game.

Anyway - I agree that he's probably not in the top 12. Woods/Bargnani/Camby/Bradley are all much worse on the "toughness" scale.

And - I had totally forgotten about Kenny Anderson! (thanks 1)

I certainly hope I'm wrong here, but I have to disagree. I think this team is as weak minded now as it has every been. O'Neal had Artest and several others on his team and as you so eloquently put it, those types of guys tend to make weak individuals tougher. They may be better from a talent perspective but that might it. I will say this though - Calderone has at time amazed me with his mental toughness. Not consistently, but its happened.

The Orlando Magic have been smoking some tainted weed if they think they'll have chance in hell to get Bosh. Unlike all the allstar players that have ever worn the white/red/black/(purple), Bosh have made a commitment to the team. In addition, Bosh like most players on the team, doesn't have an ego.
Bryan C. has solidified Bosh staying a Raptor by trading for O'Neal.
Hey Gerry, great job with the wimp list... I remember that Chris Jeffries looked afraid of his own shadow sometimes.

Shadow?! Where's my shadow? Ahhh!!!!

Interesting thing they're doing over at Hoops Addict (http://hoopsaddict.com/2008/08/04/hoops-addict-floor-burn-tournament-round-1/).

Looks like Hump is our entrant into the competition, here's how his grit has been described:
"Toughness and hustle is a premium in Toronto, so when Kris Humphries is nominated for the "Floor Burn Tournament" understand that it comes with a bucket load of salt, but let that not be a knock on Humphries. He’s made it a habit of going after rebounds he has no business getting (and often never does) and has shown that he’s willing to work to earn his minutes (however inconsistent, sporadic and unpredictable they are). Although consistent playing time has eluded him, whatever burn he does get he makes the most of it by playing hard, playing with intensity although not always playing smart. Diving for loose balls is the norm which every fan loves, on the flip side of the coin launching 13-footers might not be the greatest idea. It’s this love-hate relationship that makes me want to nominate Hump Jordan as my pick for the Floor Burn Tournament."

He's up against Reggie Evans, and when you read some of the other things written about the "gritty" players in the league...well...we don't even come close to measuring up with the type of irritating, do-the-little-things, hussle, gritty, insert cliche here, type teams that are consistantly near the top of the standings. And in that sense, we truly lack an identity - especially now as we move away from a more Eurocentric system.

Now we've gone in a different direction, with two outstanding post players in Bosh and O'Neal and some gunners around them. We still don't have many veterans on the roster. Give me a Udonis Haslem, a Reggie Evans, a Matt Harpring or an Anthony Carter, or even a Mark Madsen..yes crazy legs Madsen.

Outside of Hump, who is going to the floor to get a ball on this team?

Hmmmm. I realise that Mourning and Kenny Anderson are not the most popular players but the discussion was about Wimpy players not Jerks. Mourning played ball with one kidney, like to see other people do that. A lot of the names mentioned in the comments are hardly wimps even if they weren't popular. Some of them just sucked it doesnt mean they were wimps. The problem with this whole exercise is that it is difficult to judge something like a level of wimpiness. Tracy Murray shot some daggers in his days, just because he didn't punch someone in the face and call them a ho doesn't mean he is a wimp.
I also disagree with the statement that McGrady and Billups and Hunter were the only players who played better after they were traded by the Raptors. Camby is a much more complete player now then he was when he was a Raptor. What about Antwain Jamison? Doug Christie had some good years in Sac town. I am sure there are others but I don't remember everyone who has ever played or were Raptors at one point or other. In fact I think going into the season I would like to see a discussion on the best and worst player movements made by the Raptors over the years. It would make for intersting reading.

Just read on raptors.com that Moon thinks Toronto is now the #2 team in the Eastern conference, because of the addition of JO.

Also, the bloggers on that site see the 2nd and 3rd string PGs competing with each other for minutes on the roster (Ukic vs Solomon). You know, having Solomon as our third-string is a HUGE upgrade over Martin. Martin was competing with anyone, or forcing anyone to play better.

With a smaller bench (13 players), our usual bench warmers will get more playing time. I think that is a good thing, actually.

Also, the bloggers mentioned an interesting point: that JC is more likely than Ford was to find the hot-handed shooter and feed him shots that Ford was (who often seemed to force the issue, drive and then pass out when the lane closed, take ill-advised long jumpers esp. at the buzzer). That means possibly more open shots for Kapono.

Really, if teams double-team JO or Bosh, that could leave some open looks on the perimeter. The blogs mentioned that TO had the 2nd best 3-pt pct, but was down near the bottom in attempts. Wondering if this shakeup on offence will actually help create more shots for our 3-pt killers (Kapono, AP and Bargs)? Hoping so!

Hassan Adams

Back to the topic of this post, I think you need to include Adams to the toughness list. I think when Humps is going to the floor, and he'll meet Adams diving along with him.

Take a look at the media day interview available on that raptors.com site. I like this guy - he knows he is coming off the bench, he knows he needs to provide energy and that defensive edge; he knows he has to play within himself and not over-reach.

Maybe, just maybe, he can rub off on Joey a bit?