RaptorsHQ Final Grades - 2007-08

Bargsbust:

Chris Bosh is a very good role player? How many role players make 2nd all nba team? How many role players have make an allstar team numerous times before they hit 25.

Did you happen to notice that Bosh is 24 and David West is 27 years old? And exactly what has he accomplished that Bosh hasn't?

Once again if Bosh is just a good role player please explain why he made 2nd all nba team, took a team without much help to the playoffs when all the experts wrote them off, why he has made 3 allstar teams at the age of 24 and why he was selected to team USA.

Also until Bosh has the help that Amare does (plays with 2 time mvp, allstar in marion/shaq and other guys who could easily start on the raps) or the help that Boozer has (AK 47 was an allstar so was Okor, and Deron Williams is one of the top pgs in the league) you can't compare the two. Those two guys don't have to be the best guy on their team and they have more help around them.

No Bosh is not as good as KG, Duncan, CP3, Lebron or Kobe but he still qualifies as a superstar. That is if you consider a superstar a guy who makes the allstar team year after year, carries a team that has no second option to the playoffs and has made 2nd all nba team....which i'm sure most people do.

The grass is always greener on the other side I guess. If we had Amare or Boozer instead of Bosh you'd probably bash them as well. You are a pessimist....which is fine and some people are optomists which is also fine.

But you have to understand how annoying you sound when you come out and state the same facts other people say in a more negative manner. We know Bargs played terrible, we know the raps played bad, we know we need rebounding, we know we need toughness (see yousuck's post).

Great assessments. Couple comments I wanted to make.

Deflino
D - 6 of 7 one night, then 1 of 7 the next. PG-like decision making one night then ill-advised chucking the next. And I thought his defense sucked for that position. I would have liked to see Graham get some minutes and play worse many nights, just to feel better about delfino.

Bargnani
D - Someone could put all of Bargs scores in the paint for the year on one film and that's what I expect from him offensively every game next year. The (one) put back jam, he had lots of dunks especially early in the year, drop-offs to CB, even a post up or two. He can do it. Then do a tape of all the times he had his man pinned and Ford, Calderon or Delfino looked him off. He and the team just don't seem to understand that's where his game should be. He is strong, tall, good hands, seems smart. If he develops some hustle, he's going to be fine. That's a big if from what I saw this year.

BC
B - It's such a crapshoot, picking players, I thought the only outright mistake was letting MoPete go and at that point Garbo was still around so it kinda made sense.

Bosh is by far the team's best player and he played well during the playoffs. But, if you are grading him based on your expectations for this year, he deserves a B not an A since his rebounding numbers were down and his defense could still be better. Still a great player though.

Bball - It's not just a stats thing, I thought he was a much better leader and contributor in a variety of ways than expected. The dip in rebounding was far overshadowed by these other contributions.

I give the Raptors Team an overall C. The reason for finishing with a 500 record. Overall expectations was not met, factor in injuries and players not meeting their individual expectations or personal goal,the Team did OK which is a C. I agree with Howland that Sam should be given a B. He did a moderate job with the talent pool that he had, if Bargs would have had a better season then Sam would be a A grade and the team would have a much better record. Bargnani is a overall #1 pick and because of his bad sophmore year he drop BC to a D, factoring the Delphino and Brezic trades, the situation with TJ, BC is not looking pretty good right now. If he can keep JOSE for 6mil a season then he will start the year off with an A............Raps4Life.

Apparently D'Antoni has been given permission to talk to other teams. Specifically the Knicks and Bulls. But the espn article also says this:

"It's not inconceivable that Toronto could still emerge as an option for D'Antoni, although Raptors president Bryan Colangelo -- who imported D'Antoni from Italy in 2003 to coach in Phoenix -- has insisted that he has no plans to fire Sam Mitchell. If the Raptors were to change that stance so they can enter the D'Antoni sweepstakes, they would have to be considered a serious threat to land him given the Colangelo connection and personnel -- specifically an array of 3-point shooters around mobile big man Chris Bosh -- that would appear to be ideal for D'Antoni."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3381686

"Hell I even had him as a keeper in my fantasy league!"

Anyone who has been in a fantasy hoops league with Howland knows that the reason he kept Bargs is twofold:

1) He traded away LeBron
2) His next-best keeper option was Ha-Seung Jin

http://www.checkoutmycards.com/CardImages/Cards/000/215/01F.jpg

I agree with bball, I love Bosh , he is the face of the franchise and you can't blame anything on him, but still this season I can only give him a B. To deserve an A with such high expectations, he would have needed to lead the Raps past the first round, have a significant increase in his numbers or contend for league MVP... None of these happened so it's a B for me, and of course if these grades where based on performance or effort alone surely he'd get an A.

HQ Associate -

Harsh. True and fair. But still Harsh!!!

If there is an ounce of truth to this rumor, please make it happen -

http://www.nj.com/columns/ledger/dalessandro/index.ssf?/base/columns-0/1209875831185770.xml&coll=1&thispage=4

From the G&M.

Thanks for commenting on my last post Franchise. I know others that ran into BC and had similar experiences. He opens himself up to the paying fans (TJ should take pointers). It also seems that he was pretty high on Joey taking the next step last season, but not being given the opportunity. Interestingly enough, in stretches last season, Joey played pretty well when given the minutes. Then this year he is back in the dog house even after his option was picked up by the team (I am not suggesting that Joey is capable of taking that next step). I am not blaming Sam here for his inability to develop players (although I am still not sure if he can), but you can definitely see how BC and Sam are not necessarily on the same page and have differing perspectives on player development.

Now regarding your grades for Smitch. I would have to agree with Franchise. Howland, what has Sam actually done to warrant such a grade? If when Bosh was out he showed us something different (other than Plan A) or attempted to utilize his lineup in a different manner, I could understand that. If you try to alter your strategy to suit your present lineup and then fail, I believe you deserve some credit for trying. But, not making any changes at all even when you are starting to nosedive in the standings tells me that you truly are incapable as a coach. I am not trying to be harsh, just realistic!

I'm sorry but I'm not buying this "Chris Bosh is an isolated superstar that will leave us if we don't help him out" sentiment. It seems to have originated from Doug Smith, in attempt to deflect any and all criticism of the coaching staff (surprise, surprise). But really, this season's roster was more talented and deeper than last year's. Yet, not once did we get the impression last year that Bosh was leading a one-man show. So, where was this argument last season?

I'd argue that the talent on this year's roster was monumentally misused and underdeveloped. When you really take a look at it, how many players had a consistent role all season long? Chris Bosh and Anthony Parker? I mean, we were in the midst of a playoff series, and players were still being put in new situations and being asked to do new things.

And on top of that, almost our entire roster seemed to underachieve this year. I know you gave Bosh a high grade, but for a player of his caliber, his growth has stagnated a bit this year. He still hasn't improved his defense (he's surprisingly lax when it comes to rotating and boxing out his man), and most disappointingly, his offensive game has become a bit predictable (he might've been shut down in individual games more times this season than I can ever remember, and the way Trenton Hassell stifled him seems to epitomize how limited his game has become). Aside from Bosh, TJ's selfish streak went out of control, Bargnani was expected to develop into a 5 while being positioned at the 3 pt. line, Jamario never learned to take advantage of his biggest strength, Kapono was all but neglected until the end of the year, etc, etc. Really, Jose and Rasho were the only players, IMO, that didn't disappoint me.

Agree with Axl...I had higher expectations for Delfino, in the end, not so sure he's that much greater than Joey G.

Bosh is damn good, a potentially great leader, but never a superstar.....perennial All-star and hopefully NBA champion.....it's about the rings.

I was diehard for the Jays growing up....when they won those World Series that was friggin something else. I want to feel that here.

Another glaring omission for this year's excuses is Mo Pete's absence. Guess we still don't know what we had when its gone....Dude lightened the mood, played well and deserved just as much excuse discussion as Garbo and TJ injury.....

Oh yeah, Raps HQ you are amazing bloggers, but little too forgiving on these grades.

The DayOner'S annual grades:

TJ = C (au revoir)
AP = C (comfy much?)
Moon = A (drive dammit)
Bargnani = D (start caring)
Bosh = B+(more drives)
JC = A (saviour)
Rasho = A (rock solid)
Kapono = C (shoot maybe?)
Delfino = C (suck less)
Graham = C (scared much?)
Hump = C (delusional)
Mitchell = C (delusional)
Colangelo = C (nervous)

wtf, hold your ammo for next season man. If you keep on trumpeting out your shots you're not going to have anything for next season when Bosh only plays 60 games. LOL.

Chris Bosh is not a superstar. Speak to any sports expert and they will tell you straight. Chris Bosh did not carry his team to the playoffs. He was injured for 15 games, that's almost 20%.

How many 2nd all NBA teams did he make - once. What does that tell you that there are 5 players better than him, or maybe 9 better because he may have been the worst on the 2nd team. Vince Carter made the 2nd NBA all team and so did Stephan Marbury, 3rd team, are these Superstars - Hell no!

David West has gotten to the 2nd round of the playoffs. And David West has OUTPLAYED Tim Duncan. CB4, couldn't even outplay Miki Moore!!

Amare was still great even before Nash was on the Suns, or maybe you don't remember that.

CB4 does have help in Jose, AP, Moon, or what are we calling these players now, Wtf, you think we should get rid of the entire team because we only have one solid player?

I'm just stating the facts. Bargs is a bust, and CB4 is not a superstar.

CB4 may be a superstar one day, I'm not ruling that out, but he isn't one today.

And wtf, please just take a step back from the team and tell me what you see.

You're probably one of those people back oh about 3 years ago when the Suns were doing well winning 50 plus games on top of the Western Conference saying the suns will win it this year or a couple of year to come. Did it happen. Nope!

Why because the Spurs played them and they didn't draft Bargnani. They drafted Tim Duncan. HAHA

i think delfino's inconsistency can be explained by the fact that this season was an adjustment period for him, from having little to no minutes in detroit to being a rotation guy in toronto... my guess/hope is that he had a type of season similar to jose's first with the raps, and so i expect him to play better and with more consistency next year.... that is, if the raps do manage to re-sign him...

as for AP, i don't expect his numbers to improve next year... if anything, they will just keep going down from here on in... after all, he ain't getting any younger... the dude's *almost* in his "mid-30s"...

Bargsbust,
Let's see if your dislike of Bargnani makes sense in terms of the high picks on the teams still competing.

Duncan - first pick
Paul - fourth pick
Kobe and Gasol - Kobe was a little lower as he was out of high school,
Williams, picked before Paul

Billups was a high pick, though it took him awhile - Pistons don't have a high pick of their own playing a big role.
Superman howard number one.
Lebron.
Celtics? I dunno.

But overall, the top picks have become major players. Bargs won't. I said last year that we hope he can become an Okur and I got flamed. I think we'd all be happy with Bargs only being a solid piece at this point.

I still think that if he gets a consistent shot again, he will be a good piece of the puzzle. He did improve around the basket and on Defence at a better than Hoffa rate.

New Orleans bashing of San Antonio is another good example that you build up a team around drafting well. NO drafted both Chris Paul and David West. They're turning out to be great. We drafted Bargs and CB4.

Couple points

1) Injuries are part of the game…..remember when Boozer missed more than half a season because of a strained hamstring. Remember when Amare missed the entire season because of a knee injury…..same thing with Greg Oden.

2) Obviously Chris Bosh did not carry his team past the 1st round. Before this year Kobe was unable to do that without Shaq….did that mean he was not a superstar? No it meant there was not enough talent around him. The first couple years KG was unable to carry Sota out of the first round did that mean he was not a superstar? No it meant there was not enough talent around him. Do you see what happens when they got talent around Kobe and KG? And before you start I am not comparing Bosh to Kobe or KG what I am saying is you have a guy who had made 3 allstar teams at the age of 24….get some talent around him. If next year we put Chris Paul on the raptors and CB4 plays equally well and they move past the first round because they got a top 5 player in the league that somehow makes bosh a superstar even though he didn’t improve?

3) The Spurs win because they drafted Duncan instead of Bargs. Very intelligent post……if I recall I don’t think the greatest power forward of all time comes around very often. As soon as the spurs won the lottery everyone knew who they were drafting…..the year Bargs went no.1 was a very weak draft.

4) I said Bosh doesn’t have enough support and you responded by saying he has Jamario, Ap and Jose. LOL are you serious? That’s his support? A guy who wasn’t good enough to play in the NBA so he went to Europe, a guy who wasn’t good enough to even get drafted so he went to the NBDL until he was 28? Are you joking…..how many guys have made an allstar team besides Bosh on the raptors? Orlando has 3, New Orleans has 3, Utah has 3 plus Deron Williams, the Suns have 2 (we will exclude Shaq), Spurs have 3, Celtics have 3 and I could go on. Lets see how the Raptors do when Bosh does not have to carry the whole team.

I agree with a lot of posters the overall grade for the raptor team is a C. The team as a whole underarchieved and fall below realistic expectation just a bit. I think this team's offence actully is better than last year, but what sets the team back, both regular season and playoff is defence. I have to point out not only other teams' SF give us fits, this year other teams' PG also couses trouble. Defence has a lot to do with coaching, maybe it is the lack of regular rotation, or maybe it is the lack of emphesis on defence. This is the reason I don't think we should go after D'antoni.

wtc, excellent insight, but Bosh is still not a Superstar. And in your all star count you are counting players that have been all stars this year and in the past.
so what are you saying about the supporting cast? They are not good enough to get us to the finals?
This means that the Raptors are hopeless without CB4 which was showed by our 40 pt lost to Denver.

I guess we're really not the team of the future since we have so many player and not enough support. Thanks for pointing that out wtf. :)

Dayoner - nice list ha ha, like the "nervous" comment.

Ted C - Good point about Delfino. People forget that Jose was on the "to go" list of many people just two seasons ago. Keeping him or letting him go will be an interesting situation for BC because via the free agents list I drew up in the last "10 Questions" article, there aren't a lot of other realistic options out there.

Chutney - Not buying the "support the coach" movement by Smith either. He talks about it again this morning in saying that D'Antoni's teams don't play D. I think some clarification is in order though. Maybe D'Antoni's NBA TEAMS weren't great defensive clubs...D'Antoni's PRE-NBA teams DID play D. But when you have guys like Nash, Barbosa and Diaw who just aren't defensive stalwarts, what do you do? It's like Mo Cheeks did with Philly, you let the team play to its strengths. And as Hollinger has pointed out time and time again, Phoenix is not a TERRIBLE defensive team...statistically they are middle of the pack. It's just that their offensive style leads to a faster paced game (with the exception of this past year) so to a casual viewer (ahem Doug Smith), it constantly looks like they are chasing people around instead of employing set defensive schemes. I especially found it laughable that Amare basically inferred that he wanted a more defense-minded coach. The guy is the biggest defensive hole in the league! I can't tell you the number of times I burst out laughing at his "help" defence attempts against San Antonio. At times he'd rotate with HIS BACK to the cutter. Yep, that's D'Antoni's fault right?

how do you trade Lebron in a keeper league??

if there is any truth to that bargnani, graham and garbo for jefferson rumour then i am all for it...but on top of that i would like to see us move ford to the clippers (who need a point guard) for kaman..im not sure if it works salary wise but both are injury prone and could use a change of scenary..just think about that starting lineup then

Kaman
Bosh
Jefferson
Parker
Calderon

we would still have a hole at the point guard spot but we could alwauys draft a backup

BargsBust: I guess we're on the same page now....or at least more so than previously.

I would disagree and say Bosh is a superstar however he's not an all nba caliber player. Perhaps the term "superstar" is a bit vague....

I think the raptors are hopeless without Bosh. When Bosh is in the lineup they don't have a second option. So when he's not in the lineup we have nobody to go to. Andrea and Ford were supposed to be those guys and made up the "core" that everyone was so excited about and they flopped completely.

Jose I think would be the 4th best player on a championship team and the 3rd best player on a good team. The raps were an ok team and thats because Jose was the second best player by far.

The raps need major help...don't think that help is TJ and we're not going to get much for him. Could it be Andrea? He'll certainly improve but not enough to take us to the finals....at least in the near future.

Right now you would need to put a franchise talent to turn this team into a contender. However to get us past the first round we'll need Andrea to improve and a allstar caliber second option.

In regards to the other posts:

Yes the Clippers need a pg. However they have one who has a major injury...I don't think they would take a chance on a guy who suffers a potentially career ending injury every other year in TJ.

Getting Kama would be a dream. At this point I'd give Andrea and TJ for Kaman.

Kaman and Bosh would give us a starting front court that when combined could average around 35 points 20 rebounds and 3 blocks a game.

That is a major improvement that from the 30 points 13 rebounds and 1 block we get from Andrea and Chris.

Please hurry and get better Andrea.....

I haven't seen this commented on here yet, but I have to say I feel great for Mo Pete. Classy, Quality guy and now he is a starter on a team going late in the playoffs and a legitimate championship contender. He deserves this.

I'd do the Bargs for RJ too, but I really don't think that's a possible deal unless it was purely for saving money on NJ's end.
So, as it looks like Bargs is here next year, I'd like to think about ways he can improve.
Right now, his shot is off, and judging by Grange's comments from a "team insider" today, it doesn't look he's been putting in the effort to correct that (by the way, did Grange run an article on this earlier, it seems like it's worthy of an article).
After seeing Bargs' passing in his rookie season, I often wondered why they couldn't set him up with his back to the basket on the right or left edge of the key. Granted, he doesn't have the post up moves to score from there, but maybe the wing players could slash to the basket or along the baseline and AB could feed them the ball from there. Problem of course is that our off the ball movement on offense is horrible. Other problem,perhaps, is that by setting him up there, he's getting in the way of Bosh. Maybe use this as second type of offense when Bosh is off the floor? No, it doesn't get Bargnani points but it gets him involved in the offense when his shot isn't falling. Often seems, he needs to be involved to be engaged.
I know the point center's been done before, but I think Bargs has the height and passing ability to do it well. And it gets our wing players into the mindset that moving without the ball actually helps.

Overall C grade for the team looks good to me.

As far as our swingmen, I think it was an interesting commentary on all the different skills it takes to be an NBA player. Some things I took from it:

1) Athleticism kills.

Jamario Moon's run/jump ability allowed him to make a contribution when both his bball skills and general bball iq lagged behind. However, he wasn't able to maximize his athletic contributions, since his handle wasn't good enough to attack the paint consistently.

2) Skill CAN kill

Kapono is this year's anti-moon, pure shooting skill and general bball iq, but just doesn't have the athleticism to affect the game in multiple areas. I think the area he couldn't maximize is his bball iq, since even if he thinks the game a few moves ahead, he couldn't get there in time to make a difference.

3) BIGGER, faster, stronger.

When looking at Carlos Delfino, I think he's a tweener betw the sg and sf.
In a league where your SF can approach the size of your PF (see Rashard Lewis, Lamar Odom, Turkuglu)I think anyone below an athletic, strong 6-8 is gonna have big problems at one time or another on D. And if you lack the ability to be a consistent threat on offense, then there are games where you run the risk of being a significant net loss in terms of your one on one matchups.

4) Average don't pay the rent

Anthony Parker is the well rounded fourth starter on a good team, and the problems start when you look upon the times he contributes more as a necessity, rather then a bonus.

I'm not saying that none of these players have a place on a successful bball team, but having necessary skills and abilities spread out over so many is a roster recipe for musical chairs.

Yardley...totally agree with your points, especially about the average stuff. Raps are average right now and need some above-average help this ofseason. Come on BC!

I'm not sure about your trade suggestions, BigD. I think that we can improve things even further. How about Carlos Delfino, Kris Humphries and a 2nd round draft pick to the Cavs for Lebron? Imagine this starting lineup:

Jose Calderon
Anthony Parker
Lebron James
Chris Bosh
Chris Kaman

We'd be even better!

wtf and bargsbust, about the term "superstar", my definition would be that a player is really a superstar when you don't even have to consider wether he is one or not (think kobe, lebron, duncan...)

You're arguing about Bosh being a superstar, so he is not :-)

Great point about MoPe I am totally happy with the success that MP3 has gotten with the signing in NO. I really respect BC for how he handle players..He sent the Red Rocket (a fan favourite) to the Spurs..result championship...and now MoPe to the Hornets will be the same result a Championship, I have NO has the dark horse in the playoffs and I expect them to upset everyone and win 08 NBA Championship. They are a great team to watch, sort of what I envisioned the Raps to be...So BIGUP MoPete, Raptors fans still love you. You are a class act...we never should have let MP3 go and that's another reason I can only give BC a C grade for the 07/08 season....Raps4Life

Chutney- Great post and an excellent follow up by Franchise. There are many debatable points about this team, but I am surprised we have to debate about Sam's ability as a coach. I think my fellow haters have pointed out several reasons why he is Not a good coach; odd rotations all season, no set plays out of TO's, negative player development. Even his strengths (motivator) seem to have dropped off this year.

The Smitch apologists still haven't convinced me why he is a good coach. They just tell us why we can't say he is bad. Coming into this year, I thought we had better players than last year, most of us did? What happened? Smitch happened. He has been around for ages, it isn't a revolving door if we let him go. What will we be losing if we let Smitch go?

The whole Bosh superstar debate? I don't think he is a superstar, but you don't get a superstar just by wanting one. He is the best we have and he is the type of player you want to build around, he has skills and character. Was Karl Malone a superstar? Looking at what CB4 has accomplished this early in his career, could he be a skinny mailman? This is really a silly denate, because Bosh is all we have. Wait a second, this isn't even a debate, it is only Bargsbust the halfwit (I thought I would change it up from 'one trick pony') stirring the pot.

I am a big MoPete fan, but I still think letting him go was the right move for the team at the time. Kappono if used properly is a younger, better player.

Unfortunatley Mike James is also on NO...

You guys are so comical. HAHA

I'm on the run right now, more later, but excellent post and awesome follow up comments on the board.

Definitely agree with the posters re: Mo Pete. Happy to see him in a great situation with NO.

Secondly - people need to stop with the trade scenario re: Bargs. He ain't going nowhere. BC is committed to this guy and the team and any trades/acquistions are going to be tailored towards this ideal of Bargs being a viable scoring threat on the Raps. So what does that mean? It means that Bargs has literally set this team back YEARS - and not only b/c he's in an extended sophmore slump and completely useless/coddled. It's because he is part of a vision of the team that BC is going to stick to. And when BC comes to his senses and realizes Bargs is useless, I wonder how many other teams are going to offer viable trades for a then 4th, 5th year bust?! Keep that in mind and temper your trade expectations and hopefully, as Raptor fans, we won't all be too dissapointed when the Raps barely contend for the playoffs next year.

Bargsbust - always agree with your assessment of Bargs/not so much your thoughts on Bosh though. I used to get flamed for daring to suggest that Bargs wasn't a worthy #1 pick.

Further - I disagree when people say that was a weak draft. It already produced an All-Star (Roy), a potential All-Star (Gay) and an up and coming big man (Aldridge) and surprises like Brewer and Rondo. It wasn't lebron's class, but it wasn't like those bad days in the late 90s or the 2000 draft that had K-Mart as the first overall pick. People need to stop hiding behind the weak draft excuse to justify drafting Il Punani. We just drafted badly over the last few years and we're stuck with him for a long, long time.

bfett, about Bargs, couldn't be better said! Nice Job. Common lets get more people to hop onto the BargsBust bandwagon. LOL.
Sorry, CB4 is not a superstar, not yet at least. If you were to start a team, how many players would you pick before you chose CB4?
All star yes. Great leader yes. Superstar No.

Although I wouldn't call him a bust yet I'd say he'd be the second biggest disappointment in Raptors history behind Vince (Yes it has been worse than Hoffa).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/steve_aschburner/05/06/johnson.first.round/index.html

Interesting article from Sports Illustrated in regards to upgrading the raptors roster.

Guy I'd take over for Bosh:

Chris Paul
Dwight Howard
Kobe Bryant
Lebron James
Duncan (Age)
Kevin Garnett (Age)

So that is 4 guys I'd take over Bosh or 6 if you want to include Duncan and KG.

Guys who are probably on the same level either because of talent or age:

Deron Williams
Carlos Boozer
Amare Stoudamire
Tracy McGrady (Age)
Dirk Nowitzki (Age)
Carmelo
AI (Age)

So in terms of the best nba player Bosh comes in anywhere between 6 and 13. In terms of where I would pick him if I had to start a team I wouldn't pick any of the guys with the (Age) next to their names because they're on the downhill side. So that would put Bosh somewhere between 6-8 in guys to start a team with.

Let me know what you guys think....and I think those numbers do put him in superstar category.

However it is important to remember that just as we excluded some guys because they were to old there are some young guys who could knock Bosh a bit down because they'll be very good down the road (Durant, Rose and so on) However we don't really know how good those guys will be yet.

On a side note: Do you guys think what Oden and Durant did has overshadowed Rose and Beasley....they don't seem to be getting nowhere near the hype although they've been equally impressive.

Just remember Derrick Rose was just as good as Deron Williams was as a junior and Paul was as a sophmore....while he was a freshman. Plus he's got much more size than Paul and more athletisism than Deron Williams.

P.S I ignored Wade because of all the massive injuries he's had....I think he'll have to alter his game to stay healthy and if he alters his game it'll probably affect his effectivness.

WTF, I agree with you on Rose, but I'm still not sold on Beasley. There's no questioning the ability, but he may have some of the Derrick Coleman syndrome. Maybe he needs to play at a higher level of competition to really demonstrate the goods. Right now, though, if I had the first overall pick, I'd take Rose.

Robert Archibald - I'm with you on all of those points. I think the root problem with Sam Mitchell is that he's never instituted a consistent system or gameplan with this team. Think about it. Aside from his overuse of the pick-and-roll, can you really identify Smitch's coaching philosophy? If you were to start off this offseason, could you pick out players that "Sam Mitchell" players? There's been an utter lack of consistency in his approach to coaching this team over the 4 years that he's been our head coach. It's affected our playing style: we've gone from that dreadful "100 shots" phase to a steady diet of Bosh/TJ Ford iso's, from attempting to be up-tempo to being one of the slowest paced teams in the league. Its affected our player development: players of all types have been alienated or regressed. And its certainly affected our rotations: you only have to look at how we suddenly trotted out a completely new lineup in the playoffs, to no avail. Ultimately, he's a reactive coach that has been unable to impose any sort of structure or consistency in this team. That's the type of coach that ends up getting far too much credit when the players mesh together and play well, but should be the first one looked at when they can't make it work themselves.