Tip-In, Toronto Raptors Post-Game: The Lowest of Lows

Jose had some blow bys but so did TJ,Moon Dalfino Parker etc and they are suppose to be the quicker more defensive players. SM post game lie is exactly that! The man is hard headed and needs to look at what He is doing to hinder the success of the team.Rashio Graham and Hump received a total of about 12 min pt if I remeber right (without looking at box scores)Team gets killed and Rashio and the Gansta are talkers I am sure the communication would of helped on D. Lookout Toronto 6th place is in sight.Washington moving up 3 1/2 games back....3rd ??forget it!Not consistent enough.

Sorry Washington 4 1/2 games back but its doable

Calderon's defensive weakness is hurting this team. When offensively they are playing well they can overcome this but if, like last night, they aren't playing well, they look horrible. I am starting to think that we need to bench both Ford and Calderon for one game and let Joey G play the point. Ok, maybe not. We all know that players go through stretches like this during the season and this one will end eventually but my patience with Ford and his Starbury ways and Calderon and his being a defensive liabilties, is nearing an end. I can't help but think that this team really could have used a third option last night. Someone to come in and just play their asses off and help the team. Instead we got two knucklehead performances from our points tonight and it just killed us.
I really felt bad for Andrea as he had a great game overall and it was completely wasted because no one else wanted to play with him. Hopefully he can gain some consitency and start looking like the player the team envisioned when they drafted him.
I feel sick to my stomach about this game.

Things were looking to good. TJ Back, bosh playing at his best, ab starting to show a bit of consistency. Now i have no idea how to look at things. Jose Not playing well for a few games. TJ bringing back the ol' tj. Bosh's Knee.

Things are definitely interesting.

Welcome back, TJames.

Anybody else think AB rebound number was wrong? When He scored off the miss shot by JC he already had I think 9 and He got at least another 2.I figured Him for a double double for sure!

What I learned from this game:

If we go up against a glorafied NBDL team Andrea is an allstar...however he still gets into foul trouble.

You have to admire the guys confidence started off shooting terrible but just stuck with it.

No if he could only average a double double against mid level teams.

I think this game makes Bosh a contender for MVP. (Sarcasm.....or was it?)

The Pacers seem to have Jose's number....struggled against them last time as well and he didn't even record an assist.

i understand that help defense and double teams are important defensive strategies but they we're totally not needed tonight! had we played straight up man to man, the raps would have been able to avoid the copious amounts of open shots.

tj ford needs to remember that there are 4 other guys on his team on the court with him....apparently this is one thing John lucas didnt teach him during the rehab...cause its the same ol'tj we all know and hate

he makes it soo obvious that hes gonna shoot the ball before the shot clock even starts, hes already made up his mind. We need Jose to come back to allstar level and then we need to give ford the same minutes that juan dixon was getting.

anybody notice how calderon starting playing like crap the same day ford came in and split minutes with him? just a thought

bigd says

anybody notice how calderon starting playing like crap the same day ford came in and split minutes with him? just a thought

Funny I typed this out 3 times but decided not to post it! Glad it got said!

I'm glad you pointed it out, Franchise. The way that Mitchell doles out his minutes is often ridiculous. This was a pattern since last year. Joey Graham makes a good play for once? Or hits a shot? Pull his ass OUT of there. It's not even random- he seems to purposely punish success.

I don't know why this is. I'm a simple basketball mind. I'm trying to be objective. At best he's trying to get too pretty/sophisticated instead of just using what works. At worst, it seems like its just an I'm-going-to-do-whatever-I-want-cause-I'm-boss-I'll-put-you-in-your-place-no-matter-what-and-shove-rafer-alston attitude.

I used to be a bit of a Sam hater, then I came around. I'm trying to evaluate him independent of just wins and losses.

Also, the way he handles the media is very bad. Colangelo must cringe. Even I cringe, and I don't really care.

I don't know if I'd go so far as bigd, yet... but TJs hollow trash talking is embarassing. 5 for 17! In your face, Indiana!

I hope BC is cringing...and already scheming for the upcoming draft and off-season because this team needs a serious dose of grit and D at the swing position. I'm starting to think that everyone (myself included) got caught up in Moon's feel-good story and high-flying antics. He's a solid help defender (that's why you see those blocks where he comes from behind to get the swat), but he's a terrible one-on-one defender in terms of staying in front of his man. He's not strong enough to body up right now, and he still jumps at EVERYTHING. I don't understand this part of things at all, if you are around the basket, fine, but on the perimter?? Stop trying to block everything and focus on keeping your man in front of you. The league's best defenders aren't crazy shot-blockers, they move their feet. Look at guys like Bowen and Battier.

"notice how calderon starting playing like crap the same day ford came in and split minutes with him?"

This is what I was trying to subtely allude to in the recap. Since TJ's return we just haven't seen the same dominant Jose. When Ford was out, he looked like leader A1 with Bosh being leader A, it was that close. But now Jose is just sorta there...more of a complimentary piece again. Hopefully this changes but sadly to me he looks like hesitant and like he's lost some confidance. It's probably too early as of yet to say for certain one way or another, but if he keeps playing like this, you have to wonder if it adds another level of complexity to Colangelo's off-season decisions.

And speaking of the point guards - great interview with John Hollinger by Chris Black of T.Jose Caldeford:

http://caldeford.blogspot.com/2008/02/espn-guru-checks-in.html

Vince Quitter is such a conceded loser. Thanks for the video link Howland, it truly shows his character, or lack thereof. Wow.

Disappointing, frustrating. Efforts like this are baffling. Bosh down or not how can we lose these games? Admit my expectations were high coming in to season(picked 53 wins). Hope we're on a roll come playoffs(which is all that matters).
Hot - loved Bargnani's agressiveness. Thought he played tough D. Got some boards. The potential was there for a monster game but shot was off early. Game was already decided when he fouled out.
Ice Cold - Mitchell's rotation. Nice gift to the Graham's, both boys in the same game - but we're here to win. Primoz has shown me potential the few times his gotten in, with Bosh down Primoz should of played.
Cold - point guard play. TJ's 1 on 5 disrupts our rythym. Jose has been out of sync lately.
Believe we went 8-5 for Feb -should of one 11.

I completely agree, and was shouting it at the TV last night, that the compelete inability of Jose to stick with Diener on D was the root of the problems. I have raised his defensive liabilities at least once before as a consideration in evaluating him as a complete player. His rather amazing improvements in shooting percentage over the last couple years, and responsible ball distribution have masked this enormous deficiency. I think that a number of people have alluded to my next point, much like my first I suppose, but just to get my 2 cents out there, I will say it a different way. Why did Sam not consider dictating the style of game and just go all bigs to counter O'Brien's strategy? I think he is far to often the reactor in coacher strategy, rather than the proactive one. I completely agree with Franchise's assessment of the fans getting to caught up in Moon's background story and jumping ability (myself included). On a side note, the footage of him in New Orleans was amazing ("They said I could have what I want, I want that"). Back to the point, he really has not brought anything substantial and sustained in a seemingly very long time. Moving on, I don't know how many times I have talked about it in my group of friends. Good things seem to happen when Parker is given a chance to excel. He makes good decisions, and when the refs have their eyes open, does a decent job of drawing fouls (I swear he has beeen black-balled by the refs on some nights). If Delfino comes in and starts jacking threes one more time, I may drive to the ACC myself and explain to him that this is not what we need from him. We gave $5 mil to someone else to do this for us (although that man does go into ghost mode out there quite often). Did anyone else notice some of Delfino's lazy box-outs too? My patience with him is certainly falling at a much faster rate than Sams. How is it that on the night the guy who was supposedly re-shaping TJ's play unofficially joins the coaching staff, he completely reverts to TJames? Finally, I don't care one bit if Bargs misses a few shots, picks up early fouls, makes a few defensive responsibility mistakes etc etc. He looks passionate out there, and a number of the guys on the team could really learn from that.

Bargs failures come from effort we need more!

Sorry to re-post this but... We HAVE to win games like this if we are going to take the next step. This loss, along with New York and Washington still leave a really bad taste in my mouth. The only possible bright side is that perhaps the Raps are just a team that will lose every few games. If that is the case, it won't hurt us in the playoffs. Otherwise, we are just a team that usually wins, but is generally beatable.

I don't mind Kobe lighting us up, but Dunleavy?! Isn't the reason Moon is in the lineup his defense? Delfino is well settled into his role in the second unit, so keep him there - but Smitch has to sit Moon if only to teach him. Put in Joey, he hasn't really had a chance all year and was solid at the end of last year.

On the topic of Smitch, I am luke warm. Sure he won COY, but really wasn't that a gift from BC by upgrading the talent on the roster so much. The Raps have a lot of talent that is being under-used. His backers point to Garnett and Bosh, but are those two really stars because of Smitch? Wouldn't they be stars anyways? He hasn't done much with Bargs, Joey, Kapono, even Jose seemed to only get his chance at the last opportunity.
Smitch did a great job of turning the Raps culture around in the post VC era. But with the current personnel do we really have to worry about team character? How bad will the raps have to be this year to justify getting rid of Smitch? I know he isn't the worst, and I don't mean to complain too much - but I do think there is better out there...

Howard, the Pacers are not a D league squad. They play for the NBA. Get your facts straight. Howland, you also need to learn how to read. Hollinger wasn't only talking about the recent streak, he mentioned that we have a top 5 offensive efficiency team in the league for this season so far. Hollinger wasn't only referring to the recent hot streak. He was talking about since the beginning of the season.Creditability is built over a long consistent basis.

This team has a long way to go, but the Raptors are doing much better job now than they were in years past. Be positive. The Raptors are a good young team that needs time to grow. Look at the Phoenix Suns of Dallas Mavericks they've been playing at a much higher levels than the Raptors have for years now and yet, Suns still lost to Timberwolves - twice.
As long at the Raptors play entertaining ball that's all that matters.

Franchise, Ford was not ignoring his teammates. TJ was just trying to take the ball to the hoop and get easy baskets. He did pass out to his teammates, but his teammates missed shots.
I agree and think Parker is one of the best role players this Franchise has ever had.
You have to remember that we've only had one winning year last year with our core group of players. Our team still needs to gel together so that we can have a plan B. Once we can establish a plan B our team will be awesome!

Franchise, that video is a joke. How you can be so gullible in believing him. I guess you'll take any anecdote to dismiss VC.

Show me! Enough with saying all the right things whenever a mike is shoved into your face.
Where is the pride of defending your home court? Where is the pride of being defending Atlantic division champs? I could not believe my eyes after hearing the team leaders expressed how important these games were in preparation for the next set of road games.

If the Raptors do not develop a strong team character which is prerequisite for taking the next step, some one has to be held accountable. That game was an embarrassment.

*shudder*
In my mind, the worst and most disappointing game of the season. I think this game proves that Mitchell should NOT be coaching at the NBA level. Any fool could of noticed the line he had on just wasn't working. The entire second half was Indiana driving and driving and our guards playing defense too tight and just getting blown by. "YOU GOTTA GET UP ON EM". No, not when they're holding the rock. And Mitchel keeps screaming at the player creeping in for help who can't manage to contest their man's shot. We know our help defense is weak, we know we're slow to shift, so number one priority on defense should be making sure nobody gets beat when they're guarding the ball. An exception to this would be a player like Vince who starts nailing threes if you're not playing tight enough. But this was not the case against the pacers, and the pacers don't have a player who can actually consistently do this. At least not last night. When the small rotation isn't working, why not go big? Is that not why we have different bench players? If the guards are getting beat, at least put both Slovenian towers in there to contest shots. You've heard Brezec, he wants to play. His numbers from two years ago really are something we need and what I've seen from him shows me that he has a chance at playing like that again. Not playing him after Bosh goes down is just stupid. He has said that the problem was not playing consistently. In his position, I would have expected to be put in this game and I would have wanted to have an impact. His play in the two other games should have earned him a right to some minutes in this game. I'm sure hes a little pissed. Players who are pissed don't play well. BOOT MITCHELL

I love how some of you doorknobs are once again engaging in the TJ vs. Jose debates when they both stunk last night. But the fact is, the Raps scored 111 points so maybe, just maybe, the worse of the two was Jose with his matador defense.

But far worse were Moon, Delfino AND Parker (his O notwithstanding), who made Dunleavy and Rush look like perennial All-Stars. I miss Garbo, he would not let all these SG/SFs lick their chops at the sight of the Raptors perimeter non-D.

For those of you in yesterday's comments saying that Cleveland should be scared of the Raps, hah! If Dunleavy can go for 36 in a regular season game, what's the over-under for LeBron in the playoffs vs. the Raps? 60?

Nick says

An exception to this would be a player like Vince who starts nailing threes if you're not playing tight enough. But this was not the case against the pacers, and the pacers don't have a player who can actually consistently do this. At least not last night.

Did U watch the game ? Pacers had 12 threes and
Mike Dunleavy had 6

All but one of dunleavy's threes were uncontested shots after a drive and dish or an open shot in transition. These were not face-up shots with a man in front of him.

My argument was that they shouldn't have been playing such tight defense on the ball. If a player goes off shooting face up threes, then we have a problem, especially the raps. Until then though, relax a bit and let them take jumpers. It was pretty obvious yesterday that the drive and dish was the main problem and that we could have given them more room on the perimeter.

Um...Raptorsfan...by Howard do you mean HowLAND? Funny that you're saying that Howland needs to learn how to read when Franchise was the one who commented on Hollinger and Howland the one who talked about Ford going 1 on 5. Hi pot, meet kettle!

No excuses for this loss last night - if you want to compete with the Detroits and Bsotons of the league, gotta prove it each and every night. Last night Bargs looked like the only one who had any grit...I miss Garbs.

An interesting point Nick, something I'll be talking about further tomorrow in the preview for Charlotte. Seeing that Jose was getting beat time and time again off the dribble, should Sam have instructed Jose to have played off Diener and risk him firing away? He's a good shooter, but the result might have been better than playing up close to prevent the 3, getting beat, and then Jose's teammates getting torched on rotations as their men were wide open.

The main thing though, is that this team needs a healthy CB4. I'll gladly take the sixth seed (providing Cleveland doesn't catch Orlando) so long as he's 100 percent for the playoffs.

My observations.
Both our guards sucked on defence...
Sorry our entire defence sucked.
J.C. 'S game has suffered since T.J'S return ?
Bargs came to play.
Moon and even f...Hump
was launching shots from the dressing room.
Who was wearing Delfinos jersey?
Why did we sign Kapono again?...to let Moon and Hump shoot ?
Parker did ok .
The matching of other teams playing small is not working...let them match our bigs.
The "real T.J." is back.....buzzing around the key.
No other intent but to find his own shot....oh!! but find someone to pass to with 2 left on the clock.
Maybe Lucas can pound something into Smitch!!!!
A perfect game to give Bargs and Beeker a shot at playing together.
Indy was blowing by our smalls anyway....
Hey, I'm not the C.O.Y. ...and the only reason he got it was because B.C. was the Exec. of the year...
Sorry rambling,but I'm still steaming,and my tv set almost wore a Coors light last night.
I dont even want to watch the next game.....buy I know WE all will be in our arm chairs screaming at the tv.

Sorry not done...
People are bitching that Bargs took 25 shots,in 40 minutes
Yet T.J. took 17 shots in 27 minutes.but thats ok !!!!
I'm wondering if Sam is showing Beaker the same tough love that he showed Bargs awhile back.
Remember when Sam said" yup I havent spoken to Bargs in three weeks"
How did that work for you Sam?
Sams clothing style a 10
Sams coaching style a 5
Done

d279 - I agree with almost all of your comments.

I think that TJ could excel, and become an elite PG. He needs someone to coach him (aka. yell at him, and tell him not to be so selfish). I wonder who's job description that fits under.

I love the Raps. We need a system.

Boy, I've been posting a lot.

Last thing: Does anyone else here miss Mo Pete? Whatever you want to say about Mo and the supposed conditioning he came to camp with, he was a hard-working, versatile, emotional Raptor.

We've replaced him with blandness.

d279 says:
March 1st, 2008
Sorry not done...
People are bitching that Bargs took 25 shots,in 40 minutes
Yet T.J. took 17 shots in 27 minutes.but thats ok !!!!

i completely agree..and even with bargs shots...most of them were shots he should be taking anyways, ya some were forced...but how many shots of TJ's came within the flow of the offence...im pretty sure that would be close to zero. We've seen this movie before too...TJ has a real issue with trying to one up the the opposing guard...hes always got to be better...but he thinks better is beating his man (and the other 4 guys) off the dribble only to take a pull up fadeaway from the top of the key. TJ is amazing and penetrating, but he is only gonna take that next time as an elite point guard if he penetrates and kicks and picks his shots properly...not just firing away...we've seen games when tj has been penetrating and kicking..and our perimeter shooters tear up the court on those days cause of all the open looks...the problem is, is we see this TJ once a month and the other tj the rest of the season.

I said it before: only Colangelo and partially Mitchell are responsible for our successes and failures. You know what you get from the players (we have only one 27 yrs old rookie) therefore I'm looking beyond them to understand and evaluate our team.
When I look at the last summer I became accustomed to call it "The Black Summer":
1. BC allowed Garbo to play for Spain in a meaningless competition. BC is the GM of Toronto Raptors therefore he should have followed only Raps' goals. I don't care if now Garbo regrets what he did: doing the right thing is the difference between a leader and a follower.
2. he re-signed Mitchell to a new contract when great coaches were available: Adelman, Messina, Blatt. A developing team with a developing coach is a recipe for mediocrity.
3. he re-signed Hump to a new contract and picked up the option for Graham, killing our cap space and flexibility for this summer.
4. he signed Kapono to approx. MLE contract ignoring this team's needs. Kapono is not a bad player however our needs and our system are not suited for him.
5. he signed Baston to a contract worth 2 mill/year - seriously, who pays their scrubs so much?

Delfino pick was very good (I wonder who initiated it - BC or Dumars) and Moon was and is Mitchell's pet player (I seriously cannot watch this guy play - to be a shadow of what we need is worse than actually not having anything at all; point in case: without Moon BC would have looked hard after an SF before the trade deadline).
This summer and through trade BC has a chance to correct everything and make us contenders. My confidence in his abilities though declined significantly since 2 years ago (I loved him for signing AP, Garbo, Rasho and AB and hated him for signing TJ). He seems to favor a system that did not win anything in the history of the basketball. I hope he has actually much more substance to him however I started to have thoughts of him being more of a decorum person than real leader.
I hope for the sake of my Raptors that everything will turn out to be fine and BC is what we thought he would be.

daniel, seriously - BC has said and continues to say that all his moves have been to create space and money for the summer of 2009 and beyond. relax. go over the facts. his intentions were never to put together a 'contender' for the 07/08 season.

patience.

Daniel: I'm not sure exactly what BC needs to "correct"? The Raps are 7 games over .500 with plenty of cap flexibility on the horizon. Do you forget that 2 years ago we were the laughing stock of the league? Temper your expectations just a tad. What more can the guy do? Did you think the Raps were gonna win a NBA championship in his 2nd year as GM?

Boy, does Doug Smith get on my nerves or what?
Bosh will sit out for a week,but not to worry,we have enough of a cushion.
Sam saying that Bargs will have to be more selective now with his shot selection....no mention of tj,moon hump,or anybody else launching bricks.
Who would of thought that Bargs drives to the hole more than moon.
In regards to mellowing out and to temper our expectations....I dont think anyone on this site had expectations of winning it all....but beating Indy was up there.
With Bosh out do we play small all weak?
Any advance scouting on the Raps would indicate play them small,because they have way too many big guys !!!!
I guess when we play small,Sam could play tj...I wonder if they had their little talk, regarding shot selection?

umm
i was at a party, following the game, a few folks were having a discussion about the game ....u know me, rap talk! and i was like, iam going to add my 2 cents.
Come to find out that these folks know the Raps, personally..so i asked questions...

well well well....

End of the month
pay day
young guys
dollar signs doin the cha cha

Nuff said.

Peas&Luv

Yeah I'll admit when a comment I make gets exposed jjdynomite....I have a habit of making grand boastful pro-Raptor comments (Cavs scared)....right before they get bombed by a team like the Pacers playing the most hilarious d any of us have seen this year. I think my love affair with our three wings is wishful thinking that they'd morph into one player.

But if Bosh played and we snuck out a win then I'd be like "boo-yah! see? told ya."

But if Bosh is out a week and we lose three straight, it'll be "to the curb with Mitchell" from everybody I'm sure.

I don't see there being a time when Colangelo will remove Mitchell, so we'll have to learn to accept his faults, and hope the organization continues to surround him with good people, as they seem to be doing. John Lucas signing is a great move.

Raptors play POORLY and LOSE.

The SKY is falling, fire Mitchell, replace Colangelo, find 2 new PG's to replace TJ and Jose, who were not perfect as in prior wins.

Take a drink of Koolaid and relax. This is a young, very inexperienced team still learning to play defense together. They play ok, or very well and win. They play poorly and lose, no game is a supposed to win, without consistent effort.

Let's give some credit to Indy who played their game at a higher level than Rap's played theirs, after losing their best player Bosh who is the key to their offense. Raptors played poor TEAM defense, and were inconsistent on TEAM offense.
Raptors win on TEAM effort not individuals, no SUPERSTARS on this TEAM.

"I think my love affair with our three wings is wishful thinking that they'd morph into one player"

That sums up my thoughts on that part of the team very well. It seems at times as if the Raptors have accumulated depth at the expense of having a group of well-rounded core players.

This is about the time when I take a deep breath, remember this is a team in transition, and exhale.

It's not in Bryan Co's long term plan to feature Parker, Delfino, Moon and Kapono at the swing positions of a playoff contender. He sees the same games, sees the same flaws.

In a recent post, jjdynomite speculated that perhaps B-Co was showcasing Delfino, ie lots of minutes and plays run. I'm inclined to agree with him. Esp. considering his upcoming restricted free agent status, now is the time to learn as much as possible about Delfino and build up his value for a possible sign and trade.

Kapono, thanks to his 4 year deal, isn't going anywhere. I think he'll have a bigger part to play once we acquire the eagerly anticipated "next piece" with all those expiring contracts.