Tip-In: Toronto Raptors Post-Game – Rested and Ready

I didn't realize the magic had such an issue at the point.

And no double team on bosh are they crazy?

Magic fans must be so frustrated by this group, though they probably didn't have a lot left after killing detroit.

I loved Delfino playing the point! He could be the answer to the back up PG (till Ford returns). I loved Jose nailing those 3 late in the game - with his FG% he could easily put some time in at the 2. Looking back a couple years ago I recall being a good passer but also hoisting up bricks, what a change. Almost makes you wonder if he had blossomed sooner if BC would have made a different trade than Ford for CV.

One point I would disagree with you on Howland is that the Magic don't need another big man - they have Superman. What they need is exactly what the Raps also need and that is a slasher to penetrate and take the ball to the rim. The obviously don't have the same quality (or quantity) of PG as the Raps but the teams look similar in that they have 1 post presence (Bosh, Howard - mind you with 2 totally different games styles) and a lot of perimeter shooters. This is a team the Raps can beat in the playoffs because of the huge advantage for the Dino's at the point.

At 34-22, yesterday's loss notwithstanding, I'm pretty sure Magic fans feel pretty good about their team.

I don't agree one bit with Howland about his assessment of Dwight Howard's performance last night. He dominated the Raps, and not just their scrubs in garbage time as he suggests. I mean, 37 points on 13-of-16 from the field and 15 boards for chrissakes! What more can you expect him to do? The Raps can't expect to beat the Magic very often if they keep allowing him to dominate inside like that. They cannot count on hitting 60% from the field and getting a combined 22-for-26 (WOW!) from Bosh and Calderon every game.

Really stunned that they didn't double on Bosh. Then again the rest of the raps were hitting their shots and JC was blowing by two guys at a time. 2nd unit struggled, but glad the 1st unit could literally turn it on when they wanted to. See ya JD.

Hey Mike "who" James reunites with MoPete. If they can get Hoffa, they'll have 3/5ths of the 2005 Raps. Wow, there's a goal for any team. Maybe we can give'em Joey too.

Nice write up, H. I doubt BC is going to deal for anything beyond scrubs-for-scrubs today. Although last night's game clinched it for me that something will have to go down this summer involving our favourite 3-point-shooting-contest-winner, Jason Kapono.

Before this season, no one could honestly predict how multicategoralicious both Jose (with his accurate long bombs) and Carlos (with his smooth ball-handling) could be. Delfino also plays adequate defence, and with his drive-and-kick skills he provides decent insurance given TJ's injury history.

Kapono is Dell Curry redux, which is a real asset on a team with excellent perimeter D (such as the Heat last season with Wade, Posey, etc.). But now he is simply a liability, his hot wife notwithstanding.

He's making starting 5 money (or, at least, 6th man money) but putting him in the starting line-up in the swingman-heavy East would have 3s like Pierce, Shard, Wince/Jefferson, Tayshaun, LeBron, Caron and J-Smoove (and those are just the playoff-bound teams) licking their chops.

Kapono was -8 in last night's BLOW OUT. The only Raptor who was worse was Dixon at -15 in 5 less minutes (AND he was playing out of position, AND his mind was legitimately probably elsewhere). Delfino, AP and even Moon can pull people off Bosh as they can hit open 3s too -- and they aren't total jokes on defence.

So, if Jose and Delfino are both resigned this summer, Kapono is toast on the Raps, and I really won't miss him, because he's just a bad fit. Maybe he can be sent to the Lakeshow for a signed-and-traded Turiaf so Kapono and Reggie Miller can hold coffee klatches at UCLA together.

No suprise that Bargs struggled. For the previous couple of games I have been doing an ingame ritual to ensure Bargs plays decent, however do to prior commitments I was unable to conduct my ritual and so Bargs was ultimately going to struggle. Don't worry I'll be ready for the knicks and Bargs will drop 15 or more

Any ideas on what Jose is going to cost us? Teams I could see making a run at him are Miami, Philadelphia, Cleveland and there will probably be a few others.

It was a big win for us and I've been saying all along I'd much rather play the Magic than the Cavs so I was happy we managed to move closer to the Magic and the Cavs won yesterday. I was very disappointed in the Pistons/Magic game

Its games like this that make people yell at moon because you see how amazing the guy can really be if he can just get that consistancy.

I agree with most of the comments.

Hate to admit it, but Kapono might be a goner,(though I doubt it today) it's just hard to fathom how he couldn't have a spot on a good team.

But good points jjdynomite hard to argue with that.

No team has 100% amazing defensive players on the floor for 48 mins....Kapono is not that horrible defensively, although below average.

If he has a hot wife, I say keep him around a bit more until she starts going downhill.

Word around the campfire is BC is trying to acquire Pietrus. Can you imagine if he were able to actually put together the trade?

Totally agree JJ - my concern with Kap-One from day number uno. As I got into yesterday in the trade breakdown situation, the Raps have too many people who do the same thing, or who are one dimensional in scope. I think Kapono might make a useful trade chip but maybe not till this offseason.

On the Pietrus note, not sure if anyone saw him play last night against Boston. Looked like Nelson was showcasing him by putting him in the starting line-up and he responded with a solid game. If you watch Pietrus though you see so many Joey Graham-isms in him. On a couple of sequences he made terrible decisions with the ball or committed bad fouls, but then you also see him jump over everyone to cram home a rebound, and then thieve the ball off of Paul Pierce for a breakaway dunk on the next possession! It's always a mix of good Pietrus/bad Pietrus everytime I watch him play.

Final note - Raps getting some props from this SI article this morning:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/writers/jack_mccallum/02/21/eastern.conference/index.html

My estimation is that Calderon will get in the neighborhood of 8 million. A few weeks ago, it looked like despite his superior play, the lack of teams with cap room was gonna limit his options and keep his salary modest. It was basically Philadelphia and Memphis after the Gasol trade that had a high cap space at the end of the season, but neither was much in the market for a PG. But with all the trades that have happened and are yet to happen, the amount of teams with healthy cap room and a need at the PG position has grown considerably and continues to grow. Look for teams like Miami and Sacramento to drive his asking price up, particularly if Marion doesn't pick uop his option (not too likely though) and Artest gets traded for some expiring deals (much more likely).

Man, that BargsBust guy was right. Bargs is such a waste. He doesn't play in crunch time. And Charles Barkeley said that he's a small forward, which is true, considering where he takes shots. How many dunks do we need to watch Bargs miss? If people spend their entire life trying to become a center, what makes people of this website believe that Bargs can go from being a small forward to a half decent center in a few years? Sounds like ill logic to me.

Nice SI Article Franchise.

okay time for some Trade deadline crazy talk.

Apparantly Miami is shopping around Marion...is there any sort of package we can put together that would interest Miami. ...maybe something along the lines of TJ Ford, Kapono, Dixon or Rasho + 1st rounder.

I salivate at a starting line up of Bargs, Bosh, Marion, Parker, Calderon.

Yes that opens up a huge hole at the backup PG, and C but maybe pick up a D-Leaguer or flip Dixon for a backup PG.

We know BC has a relationship with Marion and his agent.

Off topic, check these stats:

Phoenix is 16-15 vs the West, and 21-2 vs the East!

Miami is 4-27 vs the East! Also most of the rest of their schedule is against the West.

Rahulan, considering Ford and Kapono are locked into long term deals at fairly high numbers, I can't see any way that they would be interested in them. While Ford plays great when he manages to get on the court, he is obviously not going to be very enticing to anyone at his price tag considering his considerable injury issues, and they weren't interested in paying Kapono the kind of money Toronto offered him in the offseason, so why would they change their mind now? It's not like he's driven his value up so far this year.

How about the Toronto Maple Leafs for Marion lol

Good points Costa, but i think TJ would pose an interesting prospect for Pat Riley. And pat Riley has regretted letting Kap One go. Still its an unlikely trade as it is difficult to trade Marion as he can be packaged with another player in a trade.

Quickly on Trade Machine, the only deal I could get to work for Marion was Ford, Hump, Kapono and Dixon. High price for a player that could bolt in the summer, and I don't see anything of value there for Miami.

Marion CAN'T pe packaged with any other Heat player in a trade. (ie BIG BLOCKBUSTER CLEAVLAND is working on, but needs another team to get involved)

A trade to consider (I'm simply posting because I finally got the trade machine to accept one of mine):

TJ Ford and Juan Dixon to Denver for Linus Kleiza, JR Smith, Eduardo Najera and Yakhouba.

Mixed feelings about this. Though doubtful that Denver wants to give up Linus, maybe they'll panic thinking they desperately need that point guard. On the other hand, still think TJ has the potential to be a very good PG in the future. Still, I like Linus.

Other possibility is to take back Chucky Atkins instead of JR, and throw in Darrick Martin.

Yeah...I'm wondering what this "big Cavs deal" is all about. If they get Marion I'd be surprised unless Ferry guts the team.

PS - Here's the problem with "trade checkers." It's allowed every Timmy with access to a computer to throw out crazy trade schemes. Case in point, Bill Simmons. I've been a big fan of The Sports Guy for a while but lately I find he's slipping. Take today's column:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/blog/index?name=simmons&entryDate=20080220&lpos=spotlight&lid=tab5pos2

I'm not convinced that many of these actually make that much sense and the Raptors one in particular. Cuttino Mobley??? Dan Dickau?? Toronto needs a third-string point guard but let's not get crazy! I think I'd rather have DixON than DickAU. And Mobley is a chucker in the same vein as Dixon, how is he going to even get playing time on this club? This isn't the NCAA where you can play a four guard set ala Villanova with Foye, Ray, Lowry etc! More 3-point shooting and undersized guards is exactly what this team does not need.

And on top of everything, I'm pretty sure we're without a second-round pick this year.

Back to the Pietrus talk, our friends at Golden State of Mind have blogged about Pietrus and the Raps rumours:

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/story/2008/2/20/162237/674

A good read for some insight on the situation and seems like both our site and theirs are in agreement in terms of this simply being a latteral move.

My favourite quote from the link? -

"Given Pietrus' struggles this season, dismal hoops IQ, and lack of major improvement from year 1 to year 5 in the NBA..."

Can you say Joey Graham part II?

Ouch!
:) But you're right, I shouldn't be junking up this board with Fan590 nonsense.

""Given Pietrus' struggles this season, dismal hoops IQ, and lack of major improvement from year 1 to year 5 in the NBA..."

Can you say Joey Graham part II?"

I think that's the point of a trade like this though, right? On paper, it's just a cosmetic change for both teams but the hope is that a change of scenery and play style fits for both sides. You give me your problem and I'll give you mine and if they remain problems afterward, we haven't really lost anything, whereas there's the small chance that one of them (or both) will work out better in the new spot. Pietrus is stagnating and going nowhere in GS, Graham and Dixon is stagnating and going nowhere in Toronto, so neither team is losing anything by shipping them out, and maybe the guy you get in return works out. It's the same as the Araujo-for-Humphries trade that the Raps made.

Starting to thing Bargbust and Obserer are same person.
Bargnani shots weren't falling but liked the way he went to basket and held his own defensively.
Didn't read any comments about his performances prior to last nights game. He was avergaing 17 points the week before. Calling him a waste? You haven't watched much of the last two season's have you.

By the way, Chad Ford's doing a chat on ESPN about trade dealings and says the Pietrus-to-Raptors talks are dead, so we can end the speculation.

I've been reading around a few different sites and a lot of proposed trades seem to be trades for the sake of making trades.

Couple points: The raps don't need expiring contracts we will have tonnes after next season...I think it was about 20 million.

If we can make a trade to move ford we should do it. However Chuck said on the fan that it would be impossible to move TJ right now. And this is coming from the ultimate raptors optimist.

However Jose is our starting pg and I would like us to find a decent backup for a little less than the MLE like a Chris Duhon or perhaps Earl Watson to back up Jose.

I would also like to see Kopono moved as I think the two long term wing players should be Delfino and Moon. AP is already 33 and probably won't be back after his contract runs out unless its for minimal money.

Once Kopono is moved out and we have some more cap flexibility especially if we can do the pg thing I mentioned that lines us up for a star player at the 2 or 3 spot.

Ford and Kap in addition to Hump are the only two players on the raps who are not either untradable or close to it, going to be expiring right after the 08/09 season or vastly underpaid like a moon or delfino.

They are the only ones I would want moved. Even if nothing happens in the next....half hour lol I would like to see these guys moved during the off season which should be easier if TJ can stay healthy.

Also these are both players (if TJ is healthy) that other teams would really be interested in. Both are young, can really score the ball. TJ can also run an offence and Kopono is a specialist.

There salaries together total about 14 million. Perhaps we trade it for a backup pg and upgraded wing player???

perhaps Kopono and TJ for Mike Miller, Lowry, cap filler if needed...TJ and Conley could give Memphis the new Jose and TJ and they seem to be trying to move Mike Miller's contract and Kopono is younger and makes less money.

Perhaps we could move Hump, Kopono, TJ for Jarett Jack, Raef Lafrenz (expiring contract) and Travis Outlaw

That seems to work well, they get some muscle to backup oden and aldridge, a pg for the future as they certainly don't have one and a great outside shooter to help spread the floor for oden, roy and aldridge. We get a good young backup pg, an atheltic wing who is a better version of Jamario Moon and an expiring contract.

Although Graham and Pietrus sound like they share many flaws to their games, their strengths on the court are a little different. Pietrus is more of a defensive slasher, which is what the raps need. Joey is a PF in a SF body, which would be better suit Nelson's small ball style. The move won't cost us much but could really help us. Anyone else think that all the Pietrus rumors might be helping to light a fire under Moon (or is a weekend at the all star game blowing up his confidence)?

I write on here occasionally as ObserVer. Not to be confused with Obserer (I don't know who the hell that is). I did think that he made some valid points though, in terms of the general dissapointment in Bargs relative to other #1 picks. People bashed him a little too vigourously.

There are a couple of others on here who seem to perseverate with the mantra: "TJ is our starting PG, TJ is our starting PG... TJ is..." I have a feeling they wouldn't change their tune even if TJ gets run over by a bus, and Calderon develops the ability to fly.

This is a great site. Long live the debate- we're sports fans!

I agree with Howland and disagree with Costa about Howard. While there is no doubt about his ridicolous physical skills, he certainly is not the defensive presence you would expect him to be. Just watching CB4 overmatch him with too much variety last night proves the point. Nonetheless, imagine a frontcourt of him and Bosh? Their power and finesse games would be perfectly suited to one another in my opinion. Anyways, great game, nice to see they didn't come out slow after the break (apart from Bargs) and I really think a 3rd seed is going to be a real good possibility for us as we get on a role headed into the playoffs. Despite our good record, we really haven't had many games where the big five of Bargs, CB4, Jose, TJ and D-Mart on the floor together. All jokes aside, we've had glimpses this year of what the team is capable of when all the first 4 are on stride, it makes our team significantly better. As for trades, sit tight, get a decent first rounder (Bill Walker anyone? ) and use Rasho's deal next year to pick up a piece from a rebuilding team. Their not an elite team yet, and it makes sense to wait until they're closer to the top guns to make a move. Lose in the 1st round last year, probly the 2nd round this year and then who knows in the two years afterward. That's our window, no need to jump the gun at the deadline this year.

wrapped up NHL trade deadline talk and moved right into Nascar. Now they have auto show talk coming up. Am I missing something? Is this not the NBA trade deadline today?

I called them (416-935-0590). Spoke to the general manager. He said nothing was happening with NBA trades so there was nothing to talk about. I mentioned that you could say the same about the NHL yet there is plenty of discussion there. That’s when we got into ratings… Point being, we need every one of you to call and complain! They will only change once they see people are interested in basketball. Don’t assume the next guy will do it, call them!

Sorry, my post was cut off at the begining.

Here it is in full post:

Fan updated. They just wrapped up NHL trade deadline talk and moved right into Nascar. Now they have auto show talk coming up. Am I missing something? Is this not the NBA trade deadline today?

I called them (416-935-0590). Spoke to the general manager. He said nothing was happening with NBA trades so there was nothing to talk about. I mentioned that you could say the same about the NHL yet there is plenty of discussion there. That’s when we got into ratings… Point being, we need every one of you to call and complain! They will only change once they see people are interested in basketball. Don’t assume the next guy will do it, call them!

wow so the deadline just passed and not a lot happened...or not a lot has been reported anyways

Well, we got all the good stuff (Gasol, Shaq, Kidd, Bibby) early. =P

ya good point...but there were so many rumours about other big trades going down...kinda dissapointed

Sounds like Juan Brixon's been traded. But no one knows for what or who. Details to follow, I'm sure.

SonicSuper...where are you hearing that?

I just heard it on the fan 590 20/20 news update. Brixon dealt for a player and cash considerations. But they don't know who the player is at this point.

Dixon trade...Raptor TV...B.C. could not elaborate just yet...

Just to reiterate what Sonic and others have posted - Dixon is gone:

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/305735

But no one knows for who yet although it's not a pg. Some nice trade-deadline drama for Raptors fans although with cash coming TO Toronto, it's probably a fairly low-salaried player. My guess is that it's a project "big."

Looks like Delfino is going to be the second/third stringer for the rest of the season.

Looks like Wallace and Wally are both going to Cleavland. I've never been a Ben Wallace fan, but Wally gives the cavs an interesting aspect.

Curious to see who we got for Brixon...my hope...Jarret Jack.

Who could JD have been traded for? It could be fun to speculate. If it was wrestling, I'd say it could be the Missing Link.

never mind BC said it wasn't for a PG. With BC's ability to find diamonds in the rough....

My guess is we got either a project big man or a seldom used swing man with potential like Shannon Brown or Gerald Green.

Just throwing it out there but Dixon for Diogu works....(although highly unlikely)

Looks like Primoz from Detroit. Minor deal to say the least!

For what it's worth Brezec was actually pretty decent for 2 years on the Bobcats (2004-2006), averaging 13.5 points and 6 rebounds:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/players/3426/career;_ylt=AtCgMiZTe.myuurW.R3Qr8.kvLYF

I highly doubt he will be getting 10 shots a game for the Raps. He may get 6 fouls, though. ;-)

Brezec?! Yech! They managed to find one of the

Oh well. Maybe having a big man on the team that he can outperform will give Andrea some confidence. =P

Heads up!

"According to league sources, the Cavs have completed a three-way deal with the Bulls and Sonics that will send Ben Wallace and Wally Szczerbiak to Cleveland, ESPN's Marc Stein reports."

They nabbed Primoz and not Hermann? This raises a whole gaggle of questions does it not? Like why again did the Raptors sign Maceo Baston to a 2 year deal? And is this an admission that Humphries isn't ever going to be anything more than a back-up's back-up?

Its Dixon for Prezec (he who departed Charlotte recently).

Yippee! We get a junior version of Rasho (3 years younger)... who doesn't play 'D'. But another BIG should suffice, while getting rid of J-Dix who didn't want to be here. He may be able to win a ring from the bench this time around.

Wow, I don't get it.

I don't question BC ever, because his basketball brain is on a muc higher level than most..but I can't figure this one out. Did he trade Dixon just cause he didn't want to be around.

I see this as trading Dixon for someone that Maceo can talk with on the bench.

Yeah, I don't understand this deal either. Dixon's contract expires at the end of the year so trading for an expiring contract doesn't make much sense. I think Prezec makes more than Dixon but trading for a bench warmer big when you need a pg (just in case) makes no sense. If this had happened a couple of days ago I would say it was move towards another move but with the deadline passed already, what is the point? Maybe someone can explain it to me because "Dixon isn't happy here" just doesn't cut it. Its not like Dixon is going to play in Detroit.

I agree McGateway... hopefully it will play a part in the BIG scheme of things for this team down the road.

"I see this as trading Dixon for someone that Maceo can talk with on the bench."

Let's hope it's nothing more than that. Any minutes given to Brezec would be a bad thing. He's one of the worst players in the entire NBA by just about any measure. Take your pick:

* 4.13 Hollinger PER (near the worst in the NBA)
* 2.32 NBA Efficiency Rating (the stat used on nba.com. Brezec is 386th out of 431 ranked players)
* -0.224 WP48 (Dave Berri Wins Produced score, Brezec was 432nd out of 446 ranked players at the midpoint of the season)
* -1.08 Wins Added per 82 games (Bradford Doolitle's metric at basketballprospectus.com. Brezec's rating is really bad)

Many of you may argue that these metrics can have their flaws, but when they *ALL* agree you're one of the worst players in the NBA, there's probably something there. =P My hope is that there's some obscure bureaucratic money-related reason BC did this and that Brezec doesn't take any minutes away from Humphries and does nothing but park his keyster on the bench.

Looks to me like BC realized he couldn't package JDix with anybody for a backup PG and figured he'd simply do the right thing by Dixon and grant him his wish. Wouldn't be the first time a GM's done this. Not like Detroit's now got the pieces to guarantee a championship, so good for Dix and good for BC to build some goodwill, perhaps with Dixon's agent. May come in handy in the future.

Maybe that is all Dixon is worth. It might just be one of those deals to get rid of a guy that wasn't happy on the bench. Maybe Rasho takes him under his wing, doesn't really matter with his contract expiring.

Wasn't Uros Slokar available.

6 more big man fouls in the playoffs, Costa, 6 more fouls in the playoffs. The Raps aren't ready for primetime and we all know it, the big splash is set for next season's trade deadline.

It's annoying to wait but with Cleveland, Boston and Detroit's stars -- except for Lebron -- ALL being over 30 (if you count Wally World and Big Ben as stars any more), then pseudo-standing pat makes sense at this time.

P.S. I like Delfino at the point more than Dixon. I'm sure BC gave Smitch a "suggestion" to try it out last night knowing Dixon would not be here much longer. If he really grew up in the barrios of Argentina playing point now we get to see more of it. Free the Dolphin!

"Looks to me like BC realized he couldn't package JDix with anybody for a backup PG and figured he'd simply do the right thing by Dixon and grant him his wish."

I suppose I can live with that if that's the case, so long as Brezec isn't given any real playing time. Would have been nice for them to at least get a warm body that can play PG though, in case Delfino gets hurt.

"6 more big man fouls in the playoffs, Costa, 6 more fouls in the playoffs."

Fair enough, but Nesterovic, Humphries and Bargnani give you 18. Add in Bosh and do you really need more than that? =P (I suppose maybe you do if we're talking about Dwight Howard)

Smart trade I think, brezec is likely in exactly the same position as delfino was on the pistons, which is just too far down the depth chart, but still skilled. If dixon wanted out, why not.

I really don't think people should consider this part of BC's grand scheme, just a little house cleaning.

Now I'd really like to see bargs moved to small forward for a while and rasho can start just to see what happens.

I LIKE this swap, bring in one of Rasho's buddy, can only improve team chemistry and at 7'1" 255 he is a big body. Is there any Slovanian under 7 foot. Brezec will play much better on the Raps, Raps can go really big, Bosh at 2, Rasho at 5 and Bargnani and Brezec at 3 and 4 all 7 footers...lol..That should help solve the rebounding problems. I am glad that BC did not disrupt the team, this will be a very good squad 2 or 3 years down the road after playing with each other for 4 years....Hurry back TJ we need you..Raps4Life

This deal is pretty meaningless in my books. And at this time in 2009, we'll be laughing at how inconsequential this deal was. Next year, we'll have Rasho, Garbs, AP, and Maceo coming off the books (that's about $19 million). Those expiring contracts will give BC the flexibility required to really make some noise with either a major trade or two or off-season acquisitions. I'm not ashamed to be the first to say this: I am really pumped for the 2009 trade deadline!

When BC came here, his first goal was to change the losing culture and bring respect to the franchise. He achieved that goal with flying colours. Unfortunately the next step forward won't happen until this time next year or next off-season.

Really hope the Raps advance past the first round of the playoffs this year. It can't be underestimated how much that would mean to the franchise going forward.

Hey Costa...Brezec has been in the league for 6 years a lot of players don't even make it pass their rookie contract. Give the guy a break, you and your stats. Stats don't win games. With Sam coaching him he will be as productive or some what productive like Delfino. Detroit has a tendency of burying players on their bench. They pic Darko behind Lebron and he did not see the court for 3 years. So don't play Brezec cheap, BC knows what he is doing.

I dunno, SonicSuper, what with the intimidating front-lines of the Celts, Pistons and now Cavs, the Raps better pray they face Orlando in the first round because if they get those other three, I will be fearing for CB4's life.

Speaking of your nick, what's up with the Sonics? Just expiring players for Delonte and Wally? It appears they are going the BabCOCK route of trading away all their valuable players over 25, then sucking for 3 years straight and, with all their high draft picks, become an impressive unit... when they end up in Oklahoma City. It must really suck to be a Sonics fan these days.

*sigh* =( Why do people get so angry at me just because I pay attention to some statistics. If you're not into that kind of thing, that's fine, but why begrudge their very existence, or the fact that some people are interested in them? I'm sure there are people reading these comments who have no idea who Primoz Brezec is, so I figured I'd throw that stuff in just to give some background. You're free to disagree with it.

Basketball is a competition that puts players head-to-head, so like it or not, for some guys to be good players, others have to be bad. I suppose you think I should just blindly like everyone who's a Raptor and hate everyone else, but I don't work that way. I like to research basketball and sports in general and understand it as best I can. You're free to go about your basketball fandom differently if you so choose.

I dunno jj, i think that getting Wally off the books would be VERY good news, his contract is awful, 12 mil this year, 13 next. Seattle isn't worried about losing games, get more pics and keep building around the rookie of the year. It would suck to be a Sonics fan if you lived in Seattle, but if I'm living in Oklahoma I'm pretty pleased.

In the short term, I think Cleveland have improved themselves a lot without getting rid of much, and Kurt Thomas is a perfect fit with the Spurs.

PS Too bad the raps didn't go after Gerald Green, Houston go him for virtually nothing.

man, the cavs got away like bandits with that trade...

We'll have to see if Brezec gets any PT at all. Pretty insignificant move if you ask me.

As for Clevelands deal. I LOVE that they got Wally and Delonte. But why oh why do people think that Ben Wallace is worth while. He's going to be the same decrepite player he was with Chicago. I'm sure the move will energize him a little, but still...They just took on a massive contract for a couple more boards and a maybe a little more D than Gooden provided. Does the trifecta of Lebron, Wally, and Zydrunas get them past Detroit, Boston or (ahem..Toronto) for the Eastern conference championship? Probably not. Ben Wallace will never again be Big Ben of 2002-2005.

Considering they gave up Larry Hughes albatross of a deal in the process, the "bad contract" side of getting Big Ben is somewhat neutralized. I actually think Wallace, while being only shell of what he used to be, is still a reasonable passable player. Considering they got rid of Hughes, who has been an absolutely awful player, I think the Cavs come out of the whole thing a lot better. Replace an awful player like him with a close-to-league-average player and you get a price nice overall gain.

Well if you only send garbage you can only expect to get garbage in return.

How much more would you want to get back for Juan Dixon? The magic certainly aren't going to give up Howard for him and the Spurs aren't going to give up Duncan.

Its a process....I'm Juan was moved because he wanted to be moved. Perhaps we brought Primo in so Bargs would have somebody to beat on the defensive end so he could get his confidence up....other than that Primo isn't going to do much.

Next year as I've mentioned and a few others have we have a good 19 million dollars in expiring contracts so we'll see what happens. We're not going to build a championship team in 2 years....without a lebron or duncan or kobe it'll take a while.

Everyone sends their Euro garbage to Toronto !!!...Marcia please take up following another sport because you dont know your head from your...

Well, Marcia I think it's time you started following another team, because the Raptors are eurocentric for now and I think 90% of the fans thinks it a damn good experiment considering elite players' general reluctance to come to Canada.

The point is, it's working so far.

Mr. Archibald, there's a reason Houston got Gerald Green for cheap - players are paid to win games, not dunk contests. He ain't that good.

As far as the Dixon trade goes, I think it was basically a case of dumping a guy who didn't want to be here. The only value he had was his expiring contract; otherwise, he's an undersized two guard who's a very streaky shooter. There are a million of those guys around. I doubt Brezec will play all that much and he certainly won't be any kind of difference maker, but his contract comes off the books at the end of the season.

i think it's chi-town got the best of that trade. gooden is a great addition for them and b.wallace is just not the great defender he once was.

We gave up a little used player- for a big man who is off the books at the end of the year. Can see no negatives, only positives.Coming from the Pistons, lets see how he can blend in.

Tinman, you're an idiot. I noticed you you carefully did not answer Obserer question.

No, Obserer does not equal BargsBust.

You also say that Bargs averages 17 points in a week. So what? Most of the time he averages 10 points in 24 minutes, that sucks!

You don't know basketball man.
How about you make your own independent thoughts without bashing other people.

Oh and for all others who still think Bargs is not a waste, an expert in Charles Barkely would agree with me that he's not a center, hence playing out of position and a waste.

And BC, also agrees with me that we need a better defensive center, which is proved by acquiring another center, who will probably grab more rebounds than Bargs, and play at a higher defensive intensity.

I have NBA experts supporting me. Who supports you?

You guys are silly for thinking that Bargs is an untouchable in terms of trades.

And Tinman thinks he knows the NBA, what a joke.

I promised not to post again, but I broke this promise after realizing that I need to set the truth about Bargs on this biased Raptors loving website.

jj: I have no affinity for the Sonics despite my RapsHQ handle. My first post on this site was a slobbery drunken one, and at the time, I thought the name sounded cool. Now I'm stuck with it.

Too bad we couldn't land Joe Smith. But I like what BC was thinking.

Sticks and stones.
While I love SirCharles he is the guy who said Yao would never score twenty points in a game, ever. He's kind of like the Don Cherry of NBA, fun to listen too but after a while you realize he's not the authority you thought he was.
Seems like BC and Sam think he can change. Bargnani was never a small forward, if anything he's a 4.
I bash idiot posters, not the players.

Couple points:

1. According to the comments made by Colo Juan was traded because he did not want to be here anymore. We did not bring in Primo because he in the answer to our problems. He will sit on the bench until his contract expires or will only play an extremely minimal role. He gives you absolutely nothing Rasho and Hump can't give you.

bargsbust you changed your argument from he's a bust to he's a waste. Two different things no? I agree he's playing out of position I'd might even agree that the raps would benefit from a having a true bruising center down low (Aldridge is not one of them) however that doesn't mean bargs is a bust.

Nobody has mentioned the fact that perhaps Bargs would be better served by playing with a bruising big man instead of Bosh.

You said you have an experts opinion supporting you and asked who is supporting that dude you were talking about? Umm what about Brian Colo supporting him or Wayne Embry or Garadini?? Guys who have actually scouted players, developed players as well as teams.

Who would have a more reliable opinion about Bargs three guys that scouted him, watched him play consistantly and have previous experience in developing players or Charles Barkley a guy who has probably never even watched more than 1 or 2 raps games.

I knew all it would take is one bad game for the Bargs bashing to come out. Nobody posted anyting during the good games.

Yes this season has been a disappointing one for Bargs
Yes he has underachieved
No he's not a true 5 nor will he ever be.

However Amare, Okour, Rasheed are all powerforwards who switched over to center and managed.

Bottom line is this....if you can play you can play. He has the size to compete with centers however his talent has not come anywhere close to matching up to his potential.

That doesn't mean it won't in the future. This team is still rebuilding and Andrea is a key piece.

Might not be untradeable like Bosh but he's close to being an untradable players

Just to cherry-pick a small thing from your post and start a different discussion wtf, I always wonder why people say Amare's natural position is PF rather than Center. Is it because he's more of an offensive specialist whereas the general perception is that a center is more of a defensive position than PF? While he can obviously play both, personally, he strikes me as more of a center.

Bargsbust,

Stop acting like ya got no momma and gets some manners.

What is it with today's generation? No patience and the grass is always greener. Their idea of long term is next weekend.

Andrea Bargnani will be fine in the long run. Is he an all star like Roy? A true center like Shaq? No. He's a young man who's in a totally new position in a new country blah blah blah. Relax.

Kapano isn't going anywheres until Sam figures out how to use him and that won't happen until TJ gets back. Sam needs to learn how to use Kapano better to get him some looks.

I agree with Tinman. "We gave up a little used player- for a big man who is off the books at the end of the year."

BC sends the players a message. Don't wanna be here? Bye, Bye. He gets them a half decent deal (Detroit might win a ring this year, beats a trade to Miami) and solidifies his rep as a classy guy who will take that extra step if he can.

Costa: I would say Amare is a powerforward because I have never seen him post up on the block, dribble with his back to the basket and then turn around and drop a shot.

His moves to me consist of catching the ball in the post and facing up and either shooting or driving or catching the ball in transition and shooting it or driving in for a layup or dunk and he has an ok outside shoot but no 3pt shot a lot like guys like bosh, dirk (less 3 pt shooting), kg (less dribbling ability)

Even guys like Jermaine O'neil, Elton Brand and Al Horford seem more comfortable playing with their back to the basket than amare does.

His back to the basket game is extrmely underdeveloped and I don't think that is characteristic of a traditional center (Shaq, duncan, yao, eddy curry, bynum)

Although by my last list you can see that I think true centers are a dying breed. However I think guys like Dwight Howard, Chris Kaman and Greg Oden might be able to keep it alive.

On the defensive end he resembles a center much more than he does on offence. Although he is still a very weak defender both man on man as well as team even if he does block a few shots he can't anchor a team like duncan and kg do.

Just to reiterate.....Charles Barkley is one of my favourite basketball players of all time......and he is definitely a colourful and entertaining analyst.....but his knowledge and awareness about the game is so minimal, especially in regards to areas of the game that he clearly has no interest in...ie. European basketball and the Toronto Raptors. Personally I'm undecided about Bargnani and I think at this point that's the only reasonable stance to take....I mean, the fact that there is even discussion on weather he is a bust or not clearly reflects that he isn't one. The decision was made about Hoffa much sooner...clear bust......but Bargnani does have those moments of brilliance that Hoffa never showed. I know it's hard to be patient on a site that is updated almost daily but lets give Andrea just a little more time. And let's certainly not try to legitimize any Bargs opinions with quotes from Sir Charles.

ttocs - bang on about Sircharles. Hes like WWE, pure entertainment value.

Ttocs, yes, Sir Charles is a color commentator, but at least he's played in the NBA has waaaaay more credentials than you do. Also by posting on this website you are a color commentator yourself. After all people come onto this website for entertainment. You also haven't played in the NBA, so all of your comments are worthless. Let's have everyone stop reading what you write because you're NOBODY