Wishful Thinking Episode 2 – Hmm…no more Billy King in Philly…I Wonder if…

by RaptorsHQ - Archives on Feb 14, 2008 12:00 AM EST in Feature Stories

"One AI down, one to go??"

However lately, we’ve been seeing GM’s suddenly perk up as if they had just chased a can of RedBull with a can of RockStar.

With the All-Star break around the corner, there could be even more conversation as the league’s GM’s look to tool up their rosters for the impending stretch drive. The Toronto Raptors right now aren’t exactly the model of consistency and while sporting a solid record, could of course use some of the aforementioned "tooling up."

The big hole on the court is in the rebounding area and a 3 who could both defend other high-scoring 3’s, rebound and get to the rim would be a perfect fit for this club…say someone like Andre Iguodala.

Iggy of course was the "Plan B" for Raptors fans when our three point guard choices in that draft (Shaun Livingston, Ben Gordon and Devin Harris) were all selected before Toronto was on the clock. However an unprepared Rob Babcock took some bad advice, went with Hoffa and as they say, the rest is history.

The interesting thing about this is that last month I caught NBA TV’s Peter Vescey commenting on Iguodala following some 76ers highlights. He remarked that Iggy was not worth the salary he was seeking as he was probably the third, maybe second best player on a good team. He also mentioned that the Raptors and Suns were two teams that have had interest in the former Arizona stand-out since he was drafted.

That of course made me scratch my head as the Raptors of course passed on Iggy in the draft to take Araujo. So unless as soon as Hoffa was selected Babcock realized what he had done, ran screaming out of the war-room yelling "WAAAAAAIT" and tried to get then Philly GM Billy King on the phone, I don’t think Vescey has his facts straight.

Does that mean Toronto hasn’t since shown interest? - I’m not sure.

But never the less it got me thinking; could this be Toronto’s best shot at Iggy? After all, Philly has new management, refused to pay their only current star what he wanted for an extension, and it’s hard to say if they’re in the "rebuilding" or "retooling" mode as Howland so eloquently put it in yesterday’s post.

So for sake of argument, what would it take to get this deal done?

Well financially it’s not going to be easy but here’s one that would work:

Philadelphia sends Kevin Ollie, Andre Iguodala, Herbert Hill and a second round pick to Toronto for Darrick Martin, Juan Dixon, Carlos Delfino and a first round pick.

The thinking here is that if Philly is going to rebuild, like the Dallas-Jersey near trade, they would want some prospect options, cap room and some solid current players. Well Martin and Dixon are obviously filler. Delfino is too perhaps, but could be a nice player in the 76ers system if they wanted to keep him around. The first round pick would be in the middle of this year’s draft, one that should net them another nice prospect. And by ditching Ollie they get a little extra salary breathing room.

For Toronto, Herbert Hill might be a prospect for Toronto to keep an eye on. Ollie would essentially replace Martin for the rest of the season, and I don’t think we need to get into what Iguodala could do to help. Losing Delfino and a top pick (which could be a decent player) might seem steep, but you gotta give to get. And currently with the near guarantee that Toronto will do whatever it needs to keep Jose, there may just not be enough money to go around for him and Carlos.

But here’s the main problem with this deal. While it works financially in the short-term, it doesn’t in the near future.

Right now the Raptors payroll is around $67 million. If you take off the contracts of Hill, Iggy and Ollie, this shaves $6,673,952 million off the cap, so about $7 million. With adjustments next year the Raps’ salary situation looks to be at about $60 million. That only gives the team about $7 or $8 million to work with depending on luxury tax. (In the past three years the luxury tax was $61.7 million, $65.42 million and $67.865 million. Even with a jump towards $70 million it still means Toronto would only have max about $9 million to play with.)

So right there is problem number one. The salary Iguodala is looking for is going to take up the majority of that money, even if somehow the Legomaster convinces him to take less considering he’ll finally be playing on a winning team.

And that bring us to problem number two; even if you do have room for Iguodala, that means no money for Jose without going into the luxury tax zone. Jose will probably command a salary similar to Devin Harris and a bit more than Jameer Nelson so close to $8 million. That means the Raps need to clear at least that much to be able to keep other teams at bay. And that friends, brings us to Rasho Nesterovic. Getting his salary off the books would enable Toronto to have substantial room to sign Jose but including him in any Iggy deal creates two problems:

1) The numbers financially don’t work. If Philly takes on an extra $8 million in the deal, they need to give that up somehow…and players with matching salaries like Andre Miller don’t make sense for Toronto and I doubt Sammy D is going anywhere. So that means Philly would need to send three or four guys together to make up Rasho’s salary bringing us to the next problem…

2) Roster numbers don’t work. The Raptors don’t have many "we don’t need him" guys on their squad. Maybe Martin, Baston and Dixon. However if Dixon and Martin go in the deal, that leaves Baston as the only possible "waiver" victim. So a six for three type deal to cover Rasho’s ginormous salary doesn’t work from a roster space perspective. To give you an idea of what it would take to match salaries in a deal involving Rasho, Philly would have to trade Iggy, Ollie, Reggie Evans, Louis Amundson, Calvin Booth and Shavlik Randolph to the Raptors for Rasho, Delfino, Martin and Dixon. That’s a lot of possible buy-outs and not something a team like Toronto, already pressed up against the luxury tax, would want to do.

There is one other option though. If the Raptors want to take on a bad contract like that of Willie Green or the aforementioned Evans, it might work.

Would acquiring Iggy mean taking on Ollie? Gilbert Arenas would LOVE that!

Evans has four years left on his deal but would be a rugged 4 off the bench for the Raps and give them the rebounding they need. Toronto would probably have to give up Humphries in this case but then a deal of Iggy, Evans, Ollie and Gordan Giricek for Hump, Rasho, Martin, Dixon and the Raps #1 works. That gives Philly a lot more financial flexibility, especially a year from now, another first-round pick, and a solid player in Hump.

But we’re not in the clear yet.

Sure we’ve addressed the present in that the salaries match, the near future in terms of clearing room for Jose AND Iguodala, but what about the long-term future?

The final hurdle is Andrea Bargnani. His deal expires in 2009-10 and Toronto will need to have cash on hand to re-sign him. Yep, being an NBA GM is no easy matter. It’s a constant evaluation process and as we’ve seen in the past few weeks, teams have to decide whether or not to sacrifice the long-term for potential short-term success. Both Phoenix and Dallas look like they’re willing to do this right now and only time will tell in terms of how this works out.

For the Raptors, if such a deal for Iguodala was available, would they risk future luxury tax implications by making this deal? I don’t know but a starting five of TJ, AP, Iggy, Bosh and Bargs, with Jose, Moon, Kapono, Evans and Delfino off the bench sounds pretty damn good, especially in the East.

But considering all of the stumbling blocks I’ve just thrown up on the board, I’m going to say that trading for Iguodala without giving up a major piece such as Bargs or Jose is a long-shot. Who knows if Philadelphia’s new management decides to keep Iggy come season’s end or if Iguodala will even want to re-sign with the Raptors if he was dealt to Toronto? There would have to be some assurances on that side of things for BC before he made any kind of deal.

No, there are just too many variables at play right now and therefore I think this is one player Raptors’ fans will have to leave on the "wishful thinking" side of the ledger.

FRANCHISE

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Comments

Absolutely serious when i say that Iggy could be the missing piece for a championship.

That being said, i can't believe you keep putting TJ in the starting mix.
You sound like the Suns 10 years ago when they said that they couldn't get rid of KJ for an up and comer in Kidd or an unproven in Nash.
The team that could win the whole thing in my humble opinion would be:
Starting 5:
Bosh...Bargnani...Calderon...Parker..Iguadola
Off the bench:
Garbo...Evans...Kapono...Joey...Ollie.

Then throw in anything. Hopefully still Moon.

If you can get through the Eastern Conf., anyone that is hot has a shot in the finals.

Get er' done.

Yes that means TJ and Hump who are very good players would have to go but...........

And no I haven't looked at the salary implications. Prove me wrong.

by sharpy on Feb 14, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

The problem with Iggy is, although he'd make a perfect 2nd/3rd banana he thinks he's a star, as evidenced by the 60 million dollar deal he turned down last summer. I don't think we'd be able to afford to pay him what he wants even if we did trade for him. But he would look nice in red and black

by Chris on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Iggy would be perfect. Hard worker, can get to the rim, seems rarely to be injured.

Also the deal doesn't ouch the core of bosh, tj, calderon and bargs.

You're right about the money though, and I also wonder if we can afford to lose rasho quite yet. We need him, and if we threw hump in the deal, I'm not sure we have enough at center.

The biggest problem though, he's an american and you can assume he won't want to come to Canada.

Since you mentioned him, I have to say, I'd love Ben Gordon on this team. I don't know what kind of deals might work, but he seem like a raptor style player and he defends.

by axl on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Why isn't Calderon included among starters at this point? I agree with sharpy, not that it's that important to the above post.

Also, is he really going to command a similar salary to Jameer Nelson or Devin Harris? Hopefully. But we shall see.

by observer on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

One thing the Raptors must be careful about in making any trades is Bosh is the leader, Franchise player on the team. and any player Raptors trade for must be ok with not being the leading player in dressing room and on the floor

How fragile a player can be when it comes to being NO 1 guy on the team! It could turn into a power struggle.

by Davl on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

you know, the raps aren't poised to go past the 2nd round of the playoffs this year, even with an Igoudala. Rather than do a trade now that costs draft picks and cap space problems, they should just get more playoff experience, then dip into the free agent pool this summer. there is a ton of solid free agents this year, and there will likely be some bargains...Igoudala probably won't get his 60 mil...so how much cap space do the raps have this summer? can someone convince rasho to waive his player option on his contract?!?!?

by juka on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Franchise, that would be an awesome starting 5. I'd love to keep Calderon, but if we can give him up to get AI, you have to make that deal. We still have our starting PG.

Also, I think it would have to be next year's 1st round pick. I believe that there is a rule that you can't give up your picks in two successive years.

by Erezona on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Erezona

I like TJ but feel it would be a hugh mistake to build a team around a PG who can go down so easy. JC should be resigned. If a trade must be made involving PG it should be TJ if U can trade Him. All imho!!!!

by Davl on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

it seems to me kapono should be offered...sam just isnt the kind of coach to use him correctly. He has been a huge let down. Include him in any deal for iggy, and it will make the deal easier...even though its a crappy deal in the first place for philly IMO.

by dikweed on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Why is does everyone automatically assume that Iggy turned down the contract because of the money. Maybe he turned down the contract because he didn't like Philly's management at the time or the direction the team was going. He did have to listen to Iverson dis King for a few years so maybe he just wants an opportunity to see what he can get elsewhere.
As for him not deserving the money, since when in the NBA did that matter? A prime example of that is Rashard Lewis who got a max contract even though he isn't worth that kind of money. Someone will pay that. That is why even the first trade for Iggy (ollie, hill et al) makes more sense then you think (although Dixon and Martin don't make much sense). The Raps don't have to keep Iggy to get something out of this deal in the Offseason. He is a Restricted Free Agent, meaning if another team signs him the Raps can match and that means the Raps have leverage. They also could do a sign and trade and get a young player that could help back (see Grant Hill for Ben Wallace, anyone doubt who got the best of that deal?). All this means is that the Raps could become instant East contenders by adding Iggy and regardless of whether he signs or not they still can get something out of it.
One more possiblity for a trade. How about Moon and Parker for Iggy and Calvin Booth plus some pick swapping. True, Philly doesn't get immediate Cap relief but, Parker's contract expires in the FA heavy 2009 year, and Moon would get a chance to really grow in Philly. Of course as a Raptor Fan I would do this in a minute but depending on the situation for Philly, not sure if they would do this.

by McGateway on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Why would Philadelphia want to get rid of Ollie? His contract is expiring this year. He's *exactly* the kind of guy they would want if cost cutting was what they were looking for.

On another note, it's nice to dream and all, but I think the trades being suggested in these columns are criminally one-sided in the Raptors favor. =P

by Costa on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

why would philly be so eager to get rid of iggy? they already had their fire sale and might manage to make the playoffs anyway. they seem to have a pretty good young team.

having said that, if we can get iggy it would be amazing. but i think the price is higher than what you've suggested here.

by benjibopper on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

After watching BC's mid-season interview on RAPS TV, it seems the RAPS may be reluctant on making any sort of deal. This offensive juggernaut version of the Dino’s may be given the chance to ride out the season. Although we desperately need to get better rebounding wise, I think if our players collectively make an honest effort, we can improve within this category. Expectations have been high, but it’s still the halfway point in to the season, and I do see the Raptors as a better team then they were last year. This being said, I think BC will leave his ‘wishful thinking’ aside this time around. Unless a deal is too good to be true, I don’t expect a deal to get done. Happy to see J-Kidd out of our division… he killed us in that first round last year. I have come to enjoy the play of Brandon Bass of late; dude is a ‘specimen’ to say the least, with incredible glass cleaning skills… and I wonder what it would take to pry him away from the Mav’s. Here’s to JAMario having a good Rookie Game tonight, and winning the DUNK-OFF tomorrow… need I say KAP-ONE’s a lock to repeat as a downtown specialist. JC will be an ASG starter… what what.

by Faiz on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

One final thought about the trade mentioned by Franchise. Martin has the same provision in his contract as George does (due to signing two or more one year contracts with the same team). What if he says no? It's not like George who has something to lose by saying no. Martin is probably going to retire soon (if not at the end of the season). So shouldn't he cash in by exercising his rights?

by McGateway on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Couple of things:

1. My bad on Jose. I actually penned most of this weeks ago prior to Jose scoring at the rate he is and looking like the dominant point guard. On a larger note, whether it be a healthy (hopefully) TJ or Jose starting, the point was simply to show the kind of starting and bench depth we would still have with such a trade.

Second - agree with McGateway and something I should have added. As a restricted free agent, even if Iggy didn't automatically re-sign with Toronto, BC would have some leverage with the ability to match any deal offered his way. And who knows why AI wanted out? It's tough for a lot of these kids who have won their entire careers up until the NBA (and mostly in dominant fashion) to stagnate on a bad team with no fans (as is the case right now with the 76ers.)

Next - Juka. As I layed out in this article, even without a trade Toronto will only have enough cap room this summer to go after Jose and MAYBE Delfino depending on salary demands. So the big free agent splash barring a trade will have to be in the following off-season when Rasho and others come off the books.

Finally, yes on paper you might argue that these trade options for Iggy look one-sided but I disagree. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder so it really comes down to what one team is looking to do. Pau Gasol to the Lakers for Kwame Brown and other garbage looks 100 times worse! In these two suggestions, Toronto gives up much more useful current players and better draft options. But the difference is that Memphis decided it wanted the cap relief and a chance to clear the slate. Who knows what Philly wants to do at this point. These articles are really just conversation starters and some, as I mentioned, are indeed less realistic than others. But this way us Raptor fans can get an idea of just what it would take to acquire some of these much discussed players. Next episode - Ron Artest.

by Franchise on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

PS - We posted the second part of our chat with Frankie Anetzberger yesterday over at Jamario-MoonHQ as well as some classic dunk competition jams. Last night on TNT when discussing the competition and showing Moon's video, all agreed that if his "2 feet behind the free throw line" take-off was real, the competition would be his. Reggie Miller was Moon's biggest backer of the TNT crew with Barkley choosing Dwight Howard and Kenny Smith going Gay...um...moving on...

by Franchise on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Bad move announcing who your next trade subject article will be about... All the commenters here are going to try to steal your thunder. =P

by Costa on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Playing with the trade machine is so much fun.
The first think you notice is how difficult it is to do deals. Finding the right playrer who can help your team and finding players that make sense to send back is extremely difficult.
This one makes almost too much sense (so in the NBA you know it won't happen).
Delonte West and Mickael Gelabale for Juan Dixon. The numbers match and on Paper both teams get something out of it. I have no idea whether or not Seattle cares about Gelabale but he would only be included to balance the trade. Toronto gets the 3rd string PG they need and Seattle gets another scorer so they can shut Durant down for the year and try for a good lottery spot. Plus all of the players contracts are up at the end of the year so you don't have to keep anyone. If Toronto threw in a 2nd round pick (non-guarenteed contract) to sweeten the pot this would actually be a win-win.

by McGateway on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Cuban told Wilbon in the Post. "That's why I didn't get ahead of myself. That's why I never got all excited. Don Nelson always said that 99.9 percent of the deals that are discussed never happen. Everybody thought this was a done deal and it wasn't." Asked if he thinks that the deal can be salvaged, Cuban said: "It depends on money and players. I don't know."

Is it me, or shouldn't I find it hilarious that Cuban is quoting Nellie?!?!

by ustation on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

The way to alleviate the Raptors total salary pushing up against the luxury tax would be to deal 1 of the PGs. With TJ's injury issues, it would make sense to deal him to get cap space.

In any event, its unlikely that Colangelo will pull off a major trade before the trade deadline unless its a trade he can't refuse. More likely, look for the Raptors to make a big trade prior to next year's trade deadline when they will have the expiring contracts for Nesterovic, Parker and Garbajosa (up to $17 million) available to trade to a team looking for cap space). Those expiring contracts will be worth a lot on the trade market and could secure the team a bona fide star player at the SG or SF position.

by Bball on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Not just hillarious, ridiculous. It's interesting how GM's can say one thing one minute, and something else the next in regards to trades.

PS - Like these featurs HQ, interesting to look at posibilities and to break each down. Not a fan of Ron Artest but still curious to see the ins and outz.

by fromlongrange on Feb 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions