Tip-In, Toronto Raptors’ Post-Game: Rock Bottom

by RaptorsHQ - Archives on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST

Jermaine O'Neal now knows what many of Durant's college victims felt like...

After losing to a team that had only two wins on the year, Franchise is at a loss for words and finds himself scared to even consider tonight’s match against San Antonio.

Why do I have a feeling that Sam Mitchell is having a good laugh right now?

Is it because he’s sitting around Atlanta with friends and family, catching up on old stories?

Or is it perhaps because the team that recently dismissed him, the Toronto Raptors, got beaten by the worst team in the league last night, a pathetic 91 to 83 loss that not only drops the Dinos to six games under .500, but also starts a six-game Western Conference road trip off on a really bad foot.

Frankly I’m at a loss for words here too in terms of recapping this one. I had to make due again with the 2 AM "Game in an Hour" and even that was about 55 minutes too much of viewing. It was possibly the biggest brickfest I’ve ever witnessed with the winning team shooting 44 per cent.

The Raptors – oh they shot a beautiful 36.4 per cent.

Let’s see, they also got beat on the boards 54 to 48, shot only about 74 per cent from the free-throw line and got there four times less than OK City.

And that’s not even getting into the aerial display that the Thunder put on. About four of Oklahoma’s dunks last night will be up for plays of the week and two of them, most notably Desmond Mason’s complete destruction of Jamario Moon, will probably be up for dunk of the year when all is said and done.

Oh wait – it’s already up on Youtube.

Right before the buzzer the Thunder were celebrating as if they had just won the NBA title and really, it epitomized how bad things have gotten in Raptorland.

So now what?

Is there any way Toronto can get their heads back on straight and at least salvage some dignity on this road trip?

Or are we talking about a situation now where the team starts 2009 at 12 games under .500, which is quite possible all of a sudden. I mean, if you can’t beat Oklahoma, how are you going to even beat teams like the Kings and Warriors?

Right now this team just looks in complete disarray to me and I’m not sure what exactly Jay Triano or anyone can do. They can’t score, they can’t rebound, and even their defense, which was much improved of late, fell apart last night! The energy was just not there to start the game and while the Raptors made a valiant comeback attempt, they had dug themselves in too deep of a hole to start the game and came up short.

So before tonight’s nightmare of a match against San Antonio (this could be the November 23rd loss to the Celtics all over again in terms of types of games), is there anything positive that can be taken from this loss?

I’d say that besides the play of Joey Graham, (9 and 9 with 2 steals in 20 minutes) and perhaps Andrea Bargnani towards the end, no. Even Bosh, who statistically had a solid outing with 22 points and 16 boards, struggled shooting and played a lackadaisical first half. He did show some much needed fire towards the end, ripping into Jamario Moon for falling for an up-fake with the score tied, but really, had he been more active early, this probably would have been a close Toronto win. Taking nonchalant 3-pointers ain’t gonna get it done.

And with no real positives to be found, how about adding on a few more negatives, like the health of Jermaine O’Neal? O’Neal injured his shoulder in the match and did not play in the second half. His status at this point for tomorrow’s game is up in the air and it’s not even clear to what degree the shoulder is hurt.

And unfortunately now, the Raptors have to turn around from losing to the worst team in the NBA and play one of the best, the San Antonio Spurs. The Spurs have lost their last two, but had won six of eight before that now that stars Tony Parker and Manu Ginobili have returned from injury.

This game has "20-point loss" written all over it but if the Raptors want to keep things close, here are our 3 keys:

1) Move on.

The most important thing here is that the Raptors need to forget the Oklahoma nightmare. Easier said than done of course but with the quick turnaround, hopefully the team doesn’t have time to dwell on things. What you don’t want is the team chemistry to start falling apart and this is my biggest concern after watching Bosh’s fourth quarter outburst. These guys need to band together again and quick.

And let’s face it, Toronto has nothing to lose tonight. San Antonio is a top 12 team in almost every major statistical category so the Raptors should just go and play. Triano needs to keep the team loose, allow them to play to their strengths, and most importantly get his guys running. San Antonio plays at the fourth slowest pace in the league in terms of number of possessions so if the Dinos can sprint early, perhaps that gives them the cushion they need to keep things close later on.

2) More Joey and Andrea.

Believe it or not, I’m actually hoping that Jermaine O’Neal can’t play tonight. Yes, with him in the line-up the team would probably have a better chance of winning but perhaps it’s time to get more minutes for the two guys on the team with the most upside, Graham and Bargnani. I thought Graham was Toronto’s best player last night and while he still at times isn’t aggressive enough, or misses assignments defensively, I also think he’s still just starting to understand how good he can be. I’d like to see Graham start instead of Moon in fact and see how that works. The team is hardly cruising along right now so why not shake things up a bit?

This goes for Andrea too. I’m guessing he’ll start at the 5 if JO can’t go and that suits me fine. At some point this year Toronto needs to know at least to some degree of certainty what they can expect from this guy. We’re nearing two and a half years in the league now for Bargs. At this point the team should have a much better idea of whether or not it needs to keep him around or whether they can cut their losses and move on.

3) Make shots.

Toronto’s lack of athleticism was seriously put under the spotlight again last night but things wouldn’t have been so bad if the Raptors had just made some shots. Yep, the old Sam Mitchell line but last night was indeed the case. I can’t count the number of easy looks that Toronto missed from inside and out and without anyone who can consistently get to the rim, the Raptors have no other options but to keep firing them up. Three normally great shooters in Jose Calderon, Anthony Parker and Jason Kapono shot a combined 11 for 31, something I don’t expect them to do again tonight. These guys need to keep shooting when they’re open and move the Spurs around tonight on the perimeter. Bosh has seen clogged lanes the past few games because of Toronto’s terrible outside shooting so if the Raps want to get their star going, and thus open things up offensively, those outside shots need to drop.

FRANCHISE

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Comments

I hesitate to do this, since it's 4:30 in the AM and I had the misfortune of watching tonights matchup, but this team is heading for the lottery...simple and plain. There are alot of problems with this team that I am simply not sober enough to properly explain, but the reality is that BC gambled this offseason on the Jermaine O'neil experiment, and it hasn't worked. Now, we are faced with the reality that this season is a writeoff and possibly next as well. It would take a miracle trade at this point to salvage the season, and frankly, I don't expect that to happen. This team is at the very least, one elite level guard away from competing, and you're just not going to find that midway through a season. It is time to start thinking draft and anything we can do to get us some high calibur draft picks in here would be a step in the right direction. Quite simply, this team is not good enough.

by Jeff on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Does B.C. deal one of the 'Three Bigs'? Too many players have quit on this team for Brian not to make at least two MAJOR changes. Evaluate who MUST-BE-KEPT and flush the rest.

by Richard Spackman on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Not again! Just like last season and the one before it, and pretty much every season in the raptor's existence it's time to start trading off players and rebuilding for next season. I think by now, we've all been conditioned to this bs. are most NBA franchises like this? I mean, it's not like this is a small market team.

The attitude of the team has become increasingly negative since sam's release. One thing I'd like to know is: has a team ever won a playoff series with an 'interim coach' before? It must be a little difficult for the players to buy into a new coach's system when they 'truly' don't know whether or not he'll be around for the next game.

It's a pretty big mess of a team right now. I am all for trading bosh right now because he seems like he is intent on bolting town when he becomes a free agent. The rebuilding is getting to him.

by dkmo on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

trading players???????????Who has much value?????Other GM's are like sharks looking for a quick meal..

Parker maybe can go back to starter. JK doing nothing as starter might as well do nothing from bench. Give JG start He deserves it. Nothing on the raps looks like they will get much in return on a trade. JC and Bosh most tradeable players. You got to give something to get something and I don't see anybody playing at a level to be of great value

by Davl on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

I was joking last night about switching teams and cheering for OKC to make life easier, but damn, I didn't expect it to actually happen.

I'm a little torn with what's happening to Bosh. he didn't play the best game, but did have some choice words apparently for moon and even ukic late in the game. now, both deserved to be given a little hate-on, especially moon. (finally.) biting on every up fake has become comical to us, but I can't imagine having to play with the guy. probably not so funny.

in any case, what I'm getting at is if bosh were playing at the level he started the season off at, then he'd be more than right to tear anyone on the team a new one. but seeing him toss up another 3 in an early shot clock situation, and sort of only show up late in the game...I'm wondering who's going to call him out on the team? but more importantly, what's it doing to the morale of the team?

losing is never good, but losing with a disgruntled 'star' is pure poison. as we know so well. hope that's not the case. because all joking aside, this team is in a world of hurt right now and in a very fragile state; and a few more losses could send the the whole franchise (fans included) back into a mess we thought we had gotten out of just a few short seasons ago.

by papa on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Wow, I just found out this morning. Wow. Who knew? We are really that bad. Wow. I have not chimed into the whole trading Bosh debate, but feel I must now. I certainly feel whomever is in charge at the end of this season (and who knows if it'll be BC at this point), as well as next season, must at least have an open mind to this possibility. As much as it is obviously quite fickle, as many other posters have pointed out, to turn on the guy so quickly, this is human nature (and with Bosh being a human, much the same as us), I would be hard-pressed at this point to believe CB4 has not given up on this team somewhat. I suddenly have no idea what this team will look like, who'll be the coach, and who'll be in charge in 6 months. The Babcock era Part Deux. Boy does BC look bad at the moment. No walking off into the sunset like in Phoenix here. Dude may actually get himself canned. Wow.

by Branden on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

I should add that I did not read the 3 keys for tonight upon initially reviewing this post. I, like many others I would think, thought to myself, there should only be one key, stop embarassing your fans. However, Franchise and the HQ team, with their seemingly endless patience and optimism mananged to avoid this viewpoint and offered some valid keys for the Raps. Cudos guys, I would be reduced to shameless sweraing and name-calling at this juncture if I were an author for this blog.

by Branden on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

if you are going to blow up the franchise they might as well wait for the end of the year as two things could occur: they might turn it around (based on recent games not likely)or they will really suck and improve their draft position (more chances for the lottery).and then you start to dump players like its going out of style for draft picks or whatever they could get for some of the plugs they put out there,

by runcef on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

this team is only as good as their leader. chris bosh is not a elite player, BC needs to bring in a high profile player to take this team over the top, similar to chauncey billups in denver. either this or just blow it all up and pick up the pieces.

by GG on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

The question has to start now about just how not good this team is, and where you can improve? I mean, they shot 2-17 from three point land. That's 12%! A supposed strength!

But yeah. They lost to the Sonics last year, and I think most of us think that this year's team is just not handling things as well as last year. Be it the coaching change, the philosophy change, or the tougher schedule, but I was preparing myself for this loss cause of last year's loss. And yeah, I'm glad Bosh lit into Moon. It's about time someone did. If he did that at the ACC, I think he would have gotten applause instead of boos actually. But I think that just goes to show you that Bosh is bearing a lot of pressure from everyone including us, which might be contributing to his slide in play as of late. I mean, if he needs it, run some high pick and rolls for him so that he can get into rhythm every once in a while. That's my only suggestion to Triano. If you had Bosh's normal efficient production, you would have won this game.

by Vicious D on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

We would not of lost all of these games if Sam was coaching.
This all falls on BC.

by Tinman on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Has anyone noticed that Bosh is a chnaged player since Mitchell left? For all his faults, Mitchell hada good relationship with Bosh and Bosh is feeling the loss. Looks like a few other might be too. Nothing against Triano and not to say that's the only problem, but it has to be more than coincidence.

by Ian Johnson on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Time to start looking at the Mock Draft sites, havent had to look at them this early in a season for a while.

by TIME2BLOWUPTHEROSTER on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Is this team in a funk? Most definitely. Are we out of the playoffs? By no means. Are we all frustrated? Hell ya! Let's (BC) decide to go in 1 of 2 directions: a) do your best to make a serious trade. Why aren't we after the likes of at least Gerlad Wallace? I heard a trade rumor on RealGM senidng Parker and Graham to OKC for Watson. Are you kidding me? Watson's plays as good as a bag of hair. b) sell off your parts for expiring contracts and draft picks, trade Bosh (I know that sounds crazy, but lets face it, dude's unlikely to resign with us in the future), which should allow us to build around more than one up and coming future star (via the draft and a Bosh trade).

Personally, I'm feeling option "b" right now. With this instability of this franchise right now and not having a stable coach to lead the way, I dount we'll make the playoffs (although it's not impossible). If we do, who wants to be 1 and done in the first round and end up with another crappy, late 1st round pick? The Leaf's and Raps love doing this.

Too be honest, last nights game actually made me feel better in some regards. I've let go of the stress of waiting and hoping for a turn around this season. My mindset has changed and I am ok with the fact that we could be lottery bound. Let's start the building process again and get it right this time.

Still love my Raps though.
N

by Nick on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

To elabourate on my earlier (and surprisingly coherent) post, here is the problem in a nutshell...this is not a team that is built to play up-tempo.

The 4 best players on this team are Bosh, O'neil, Bargnani and Calderon. At least 3 of them are better in the half-court, with only Jose playing better after the style change. Sure Jamario is playing better, and even Kapono, but who cares about them? You build a system around your best players, not your complimentary players; then you find complimentary players to fit around them in that system. This falls on BC. He's the one that wanted to play more up tempo and we're getting killed because of it. If you want to play that way, fine...trade Bosh for Amare, get rid of O'neil for Marion, and move Bargnani for a bench player, then maybe you have a shot playing that style.

by Jeff on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

No Trade !!!!!

Thanks BC...here we go again!

Raps win tonight (Note -I'm not been sarcastic...seriously!!!)

by Sshady on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

All of this pessimism is getting me down. Yes, they're been sucking, but no, they can't be this bad. Bad spells come and lift.

by observer on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

They say misery loves company... check out this Warriors blog post:

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2008/12/19/panic-time-in-warriorsland-nelson-and-riley-are-desperately-seeking-a-trade/

sound familiar?

As for the game, I watched it on justin.tv (thanks to Rogers and MLSE). I'm sticking to some of my other comments:

- Bosh is slowly turning into Shareef Abdur-Rahim. Check out the career stats, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

- OKC's bench is ten times better than the Raptors. Damien Wilkins would start on the Raps at either the 2/3, and Chris Wilcox would give JO a run for starting Center.

- Jamario Moon needs to be cut or traded. He has the worst Basketball IQ of any player on the Raps ***INCLUDING Joey***. Shooting 18-20' jumpers early in the shot clock is exactly why the offense sucks so bad, and the guy never gets a rebound by boxing out.

- In retropect, we should have signed Artest.

Some other notes from what was probably the most bizarre night in the NBA this year:

- Mike James played 37 minutes for Washington, and hit 4/5 3PT!
- Stephen Graham started for Indiana! I can see the Joey for Stephen trade rumours heating up.
- Mbah a Moute has taken Charlie V's minutes in Milwaukee.
- Biedrins had another 15-rb game... that's the guy I'd trade for from the Warriors.
- Kobe & his stacked Lakers team lost to Wade's Heat somehow (and Miami only scored 14 in the 4th).
- The Memphis Grizzlies might have actually had a worse boxscore than the Raps! (ok, not quite, but close)

by BC on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

This one was difficult to take, but really, what did we expect. I for one am not trying to put a finger on whats wrong with this team, be it the rebounding, coaching or just lack of effort.
This bodes well for Sam Mitchell (and im not a fan of him) but the personal on this team is just not good enough.
When you break it down... we have Bosh- a very talented PF, then O'niell- a Center that has battled injuries, he is no longer the 26 year old player he was. After that we have a very good BACKUP PG, and after that we have many players that would not get into games on a good team! Parker, Graham, Bargnani, Roko and Hump would not be playing on a good team on a regular basis. Graham and Barney have shown signs... but what the hell does that mean? you have to be consistent at this level, and we DO NOT have the talent.
The only one to blame here should be Brian Colangelo. He has created a monster and there is no easy way out. I think trading Bosh and hopefully O'neill would be the fairest decision right now, give those two a chance at playing on a team with talent and get something for the future.
its safe to say that with Mitchell we would still be underachieving, but we would at least be competing. he is not the most best coach, but he does get the best out of his not so talented players. which is 85% of this team.
a good college team could beat us! No talent and no players to trade talent.
BC should be fired, made too many bad decisions.

by razor on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Something that hasn't been mentioned - when did we get so deep into the refs doghouse, we never get calls, charge/blocks always go against us - I mean look at that mason dunk you linked to, if Joey G had done that, charge for sure, forearm in the face, moon beat him to the spot, come on!!

by axl on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

That was a bitter pill to swallow. Ricky Rubio and Blake Griffin are starting to look good in a Raptors uniform. Knock on wood we pull a chicago and win the lottery.

by Thor on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

States Nick: "Last night's game actually made me feel better in some regards. I've let go of the stress of waiting and hoping for a turn around this season. My mindset has changed and I am ok with the fact that we could be lottery bound."

Second that. After my angry posts of the last couple of days, the result of squinting my eyes to watch the pathetic game on justin.tv, I too have concluded that, notwithstanding the next X number of games I still will attend live this season (already paid), I will find as much if not more entertainment (and definitely healthier eating) by surfing on over to nbadraft.net or draftexpress.com.

That said, any of you got interesting travel plans this holiday? My GF and I scored a relatively good deal to Cayo Coco (since yanks can't get there easily). Will enjoy watching some Cuban league baseball and having no emotional or financial investment in the outcome. I am actually hoping they don't show NBA scores.

by jjdynomite on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

raptors sucks! firing mitchell was a good move by bc but putting jay triano as interim coach not good enough to bring the raps in the 2nd round of the playoffs. Plus pls. raptors start trade players like bargnani and kapono. Bargnani useless we shudve got brandon roy in the 2006 draft. I agree with trading bosh for sum1 whos more experience and a franchise player. He shud drive and dunk more than shoot outside like amare stoudemire. vince carter era pls come back lol.

by teesh on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

axl - I was going to mention that, but... When you're not aggressive, you're not going to change the minds of refs in my opinion. It was after the coaching change that the Raptors got aggressive and voila, started getting some calls to even things out. That being said, Bosh really isn't getting the benefit of the doubt. It's kinda crazy.

by Vicious D on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Two posts I want to comment on:
"Tinman says:
December 20th, 2008
We would not of lost all of these games if Sam was coaching.
This all falls on BC."
Totally agree and I hope more will be converted after this most recent complete embarrassment. As Barkley and the crew on TNT would say "Sam Mitchell is rolling over in his grave right now!" Yah rolling over in laughter... I might even suggest that Mitchell may have been holding this piece of crap roster together through sheer strength of personality. Especially with how mentally weak this team has looked over the last few games. Well Raptors fans, I guess be careful what you ask for.
And
"Jeff says:
December 20th, 2008
To elabourate on my earlier (and surprisingly coherent) post, here is the problem in a nutshell...this is not a team that is built to play up-tempo. "

How stupid does BC look now with all that "this team needs to play up tempo" crap!

1: This team can’t rebound and is suspect on D and doesn’t force turnovers so how do we get the ball to run the break?
2: As has already been pointed out by another poster, this team is NOT BUILT TO RUN! JO is not that quick anymore, Jose is a half court point guard, Parker has looked really old this season and is not a transition guy, Kapono, don’t get me started and Moon is absolutely terrified of taking the ball to the rim... etc. Etc.
3: Why would you suggest that this team needs to run when you’ve built a team of jump shooters? Oh and BTW this team of jump shooters can’t even shoot anymore.

Right now BC has absolutely zero credibility in my eyes. These are definitely dark days in Raptor nation.

by MAS on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Time to start talking the draft. Who's coming out this year.

by Chris on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

vd - you're right about needing to be aggressive on drives from the opening tip to get calls. those are hard to call fouls, so the refs maybe just balance them out and of course 'stars' get the benefit of the doubt more often.

It's really noticable when you switch from a raptors (or timberwolves, hawks, charlotte...) game to a high profile game like even miami-lakers last night were they were just allowed play rougher. That the way it seems to me far too often.

by axl on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Random side note, I noticed the front page of this site where it shows the score from last night. Way to keep the Sonics logo. Don't ever change it to the Thunder.

by Thor on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

The Warriors have told Anthony Randolph to seek a trade. If BC is a smart man he should go for this guy. Hes going to be a solid player.

by Thor on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

The Warriors have told Anthony Randolph to seek a trade. If BC is a smart man he should go for this guy. Hes going to be a solid player.

by Thor on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

I may have to seek professional help, since the idea of Earl Watson for Parker and Graham excites me... but seriously, I started paying closer attention to college ball today and anyone else who follows the Raps should as well.

by Geoff on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

New Game Plan:

Trade JO for Marion then sign Lamar Odom this summer on a discount.

Draft Stephen Curry a friend of Lebron's.
http://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/story/399075.html

On the down low get Canadian businesses to come up with a gigantic endorsement package for Lebron if he was to come to Canada. (I would think Royal Bank of Canada, BCE, Rogers, Research In Motion, Bell could come up with a 9 figure offer)

Use that with Stephen Curry and Chris Bosh to bring over Lebron. If only we had fired Sam last year and picked up Mike D before he went to New York.

by RS on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Franchise, Howland, VD and the rest of the congregation..Can I ask you guys a huge favour? I recently started my own blog for the Raptors as a way to make a bit of extra cash. Groceries are expensive and well thats what the money is going towards. All you really have to do is make an account (i think, im still new at it) and then post comments and click on the advertisements (thats where the money comes in)...If not then thats cool, I'm just looking for the help as a poor student..heres the link....www.nbabasketballonline.com/fullpressure

by Thor on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Spurs announcers really slamming Moon. Bad shots doesn't follow His shots runs insto screens and more

by Davl on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

They like JG' and TO getting the calls tonight so far

by Davl on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

AB getting killed my Mason

by Davl on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

This game came down to taking and making 3s.

San Antonio 16-35
Toronto 4-12

San Antonio took 35 three pointers in this one... are you kidding me? The raps finally put together a solid game with consistency in every quarter and they run into one of the most impressive 3 point displays I can remember.

I guess this speaks to having the speed to recover on D.

Better effort all around though.

by mcclarky on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

btw...was anyone counting the Oneal walks tonight. He got away with at least 3 that I saw. The refs must be starting to pity us....nice. We'll take it!!

by mcclarky on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Yeah, we sure miss Sam's lack of coaching knowledge and juvenile play calling. Let's not forget how well he was motivating this team all season and the latter half of last season.

by Assistant GM on Dec 20, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions