3 In the Key – Toronto Raptors Game Day Preview vs. Dallas

In trade senarios, especially with the players you are proposing to trade, the return quality is not likely to be enough to have much of an impact.Occasionally there is a deal like the Lakers got with Gasol but those are few and far between. So I suggest a trade such as Bosh and money for K Durante. If your not willing to trade Bosh or Calderon then your not ready to really shake things up. Take Denver for example, they trade a big name in Iverson and turn their club around. New Jersy traded one of the premere guards in the league in J Kidd and really improved their team big time. You can continue to dream that you will get a game changer in exchange for the players you listed but in realality it's unlikely

I was a little disappointed in some of the posts yesterday as there appears to be too much "Leafism" (you know "They won a game so they are going to the cup" or "They lost a game so they suck"). This team does need help but they do not suck.
My biggest concern is that this team seems to play better on the road then they do at home which doesn't make sense. The fans are supporting their team (unlike, say, NJ) so it cannot be an emotional issue. I think they need figure out why they cannot protect home court and fix that first. Even bad teams win more at home then they do on the road and this team is in full stall mode until they turn that around.

Try this on for size:

I've wasted the last hour bemoaning the terrible Raptors and have come up with an ingenious solution: trade Chris Bosh.
Sounds crazy, but his value will never be higher, you leverage the risk of losing him in 2010 AND you address the real possibility that Toronto may never win a championship with him (too dependent on pick and roll, not a strong defender, not a great passer out of double teams).

Here's how the trades go down:

Toronto sends: Chris Bosh to Chicago
Chicago sends: Derrick Rose, Andres Nocioni, Joakim Noah, 1st round draft pick
Why?: You think Chicago doesn't regret doing the Gasol trade now that their stuck with Deng for 50 years? They finally get a real star out of all their assets.

Toronto sends: Calderon, H. Adams, J. Graham, W. Solomon to Washington
Washington sends: Caron Butler

Why?: Probably the least likely to happen, but they're in last place and they get a top-tier PG with a reasonable contract who gives them more flexibility with Arenas.

Toronto sends: Anthony Parker, Jason Kapono to LA Clippers
LAC sends: Marcus Camby

Why?: They already have Kaman and Randolph, Camby is the oldest of the three. Might as well get some immediate cap relief and the best 3-point shooter in the league for him. And because Dunleavy will do anything.

Toronto sends: Jermaine O'Neal to New Jersey
NJ sends: Vince Carter and Keyon Dooling

Why?: If they're serious about this Lebron in 2010 thing, don't they have to be able to sign someone else PLUS LeBron to sell the possibility of multiple championships? And how do you attract LeBron with VC sitting in his role? And if they lose the LeBron sweepstakes, why keep VC around and pay him when you can turn his max contract into 20 million in cap space after 2010?

I know this is crazy, but you end up with the following Toronto depth chart:

PG: Derrick Rose, Roko Ukic (some Dooling in case of emergency)
SG: Vince Carter, Keyon Dooling (Jamario Moon in case of emergency)
SF: Caron Butler, Andres Nocioni, Jamario Moon
PF: Andrea Bargnani, Kris Humphries
C: Marcus Camby, Jake Voshkul

Who would want to play against that team in the playoffs? They can score, rebound, defend and have some depth too. It also all works under the salary cap according to ESPN's trade machine. And, I think there's a reasonable chance that these trades appeal to all teams involved.

yeah I actually cancelled my rogers service on monday, and bell wants a bunch of money for their box so I'm actually contemplaiting going without cable for a while. no raps. like I said in an earlier comment, I think it'll be good for my health...why do you hurt me so, raptors!

I'll be back here in the morning to find out what happened. hopefully calm and not angry at all.

btw, fizzle: have you not seen rose play?? (minus last night cause he sucked.) the dude is playing out of his mind. and he's a rookie. that's a top 5 point guard for the next 10 years in the making.

they are not trading him. not for bosh anyway.

:) Oh sure, I get yelled at for proposing a Wallace + Okafor trade for Bosh but Fizzle gets nothing?

I'm just kidding, my idea WAS ridiculous. Carry on then...nothing to see here.

Oh, what the heck..

Moon+Graham+Parker to Portland for Diogu+Rodrigues+Outlaw

or just Parker for Diogu+Rodriguez

Or Bargs to GS for Marcus Williams+Belinelli+Azibuike

Or Bargs to Chicago for Ty Thomas+Sefelosha+2nd round pick.

I love trade season!!!

Howland,
I do not understand the rationale for starting with Maxiell, for sure he cannot play the 3.

I plaid yesterday with the idea of trading Bosh and I believe it should be seriously considerate (even for discarding it). The question is: IS Bosh a franchise player?

He is n the sense he is the face of the Raptors, I believe he isn't because he is not a player making a contender out of an average team (like Lebron or Wade). If he isn't he needs a franchise player besides him. They tried with Bargnani and it did not work. They tried with Oneal and it did not work either.
The chances of luring such a player out of free agency are, in my opinion, slim and the chances to get such a player out of the draft are just as big.
I believe trading Bosh for a very good three + filler can make this team much better in the short and in the long term, also keeping in mind you could still loose him for nothing soon enough.

I love all the biters who stole my idea (posted last season) to flip Bosh. I have since abandoned this idea as right now we will get 50 cents on the dollar for him(that seems to be the going rate for superstars).
RT - Although you have a point about trading big names to get better you are wrong about what you will get back for Bosh. The Iverson trade was a straight salary dump. They got rid of Billups who is signed for a few years and McDyess (who resigned with them for a lot less money I think) for a 20 million dollar bid to get better next year or the year after through free agency. The Kidd trade was a desperate team trading away assests in the hope that a broken down and disinterested PG would turn their fortunes around. Dallas would not make that trade if they had waited until this year and kept Harris and fired Avery etc.
As for the trade scenarios you proposed - Why would OKC trade for a guy who has absolutely 0% chance of staying with them in 2010 for a player they will have for at least another 3 or 4 years? They are trying to build something and making that trade does not help their team in the long run. It might fill the seats a little but they are going nowhere and I imagine that should such a trade go down, I could see Bosh refusing to report.
Fizzle - although your ideas are good on paper, the reality is that you could make an argument to trade anyone for anyone in this league. Not only (as someone else pointed out) is Chicago unlikely to trade their lucky (they got very lucky to get the 1st overall pick last year) pick in Rose but they will not "sweeten" the deal with a 1st round pick. I mean who will play point for them? Hinrich? Washington will not trade for another 9 mill a year to play a position they have already commited a Billion dollars to over the next 200 years. Unless Arenas is coming back in that deal it aint going to happen. The clippers are a possibility but it is my understanding that they are shopping Kaptain Kaveman around not Camby as I believe Camby will be coming off the books at just the right time (correct me anyone if I am wrong). NJ will not trade VC back to Toronto unless he is retired and especially not for JO who although is a decent player (although seriously overpaid) will not fit with the 60 other big men they already have. Its not like Lopez hasn't outplayed him every time they meet. In fact almost every trade scenario is ridiculous (you even forgot to include Noah onto your final team as you traded for him but didn't trade him out). Trades in the NBA do not work like they do in Hockey where you could make these kind of deals. I mean seriously, if you had the assests you were trading to the Raptors would you really take the garbage you included back?
The most likely trade scenario involves one of the following situations.
1. A salary dump. Team A trades away a player who is signed for too many years and is killing their cap. See Richardson.
2. Player asks for a trade. See VC or Gasolm, Kidd.
3. Minor players who nobody else cares about. See Fred Jones for Juan Dixon.

Howland, you should hit the bar tonight. That's what me and a couple friends did on Monday night and are going back again tonight (and possibly Friday, depending on how much snow we get and how much we want to see Durant). In fact, the whole HQ should organize nights at the bar when there are games on TSN2, it could be like the Draft night in June.

Sorry Fizzle, but those trades are awful!

Chicago will NEVER trade rose. The only way he will wear another uniform is if he walks. Plus, you're throwing in a first round pick?? Ridiculous.

What's washington going to do with 2 point guards? They just signed Gilbert to a long term deal worth 111 mil. You think they're going to take on another long term point guard contract in Jose's?

If the clips didnt pull the trigger in aquiring Jrich or Wallace from Charlotte, why would they want parker and kapono? PS. Camby is playing out of his mind right now!

VC back in TO? yah right...

Yesterday's discussion led me to think, just how bad are the Raps? Obviously the real variable is time (over what period). Of course we can state they're not the worst franchise right now, but it did lead to me wonder thanks to Aaron, how bad are they compared to other expansion teams?

Hotforwords decided to investigate...oh wait, wrong show.

Here we go, I took stats & awards over the first 10 years of a teams existence and focused on the modern era (post 1980 + the Jazz):

Toronto Raptors 321-529 .39
3 Playoffs (pofs)
2 Roys
1 Exec of Year

Miami Heat 396-474 .45
6 POFs
1 COY (coach)
1 MIP

Orlando Magic 481-471 0.5
5 POFs
1 Finals
2 MIPs
1 ROY (one big a&& ROY!)

Hornets 403-467 .46
4 POFS
1 ROY
1 6th Man (Dell Curry)

Grizzlies 314-638 .32
3 POFS
No Awards

Timberwolves 431-875 .33
4 POFs
No Awards

Dallas Mavs 455-529 .46
6 POFs
1 6th Man

Utah Jazz 376-608 .38
2 POFs
1 COY

Bobcats 117-237 .33
No Awards

The key to success is obviously the draft, and the Raps and Grizz got majorly screwed when they were prevented from picking #1, which the Raps would have. And drafting 7th!?!?! in the first year. Could you imagine what we could have been like if we had Kevin Garnett in 1995 and then potentially Allen Iverson the next year?!?! Whoa, that would have been a complete different history to this franchise.

Fixed your list - man I can't stand kapono's game

0. Kapono
1. Moon
2. Parker
3. Humphries
4. Solomon
5. Adams

I was looking at the Per on ESPN and noticed something interesting (not that I put huge stock in PER). Chris Humphries is 50th in the league in PER. That is right 50th, ahead of Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Durant just to name 2. Maybe the Raps miss him more than some people think that they do.

This goes out to Papa and anyone else raging against the rogers/mlse/ctv/tsn/bell machine.

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http://www.justin.tv/directory?category=sports

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go raps.

Francise: I guess my point is that the trades that will make a difference for Toronto must involve Calderon, Bosh or perhaps Oneal. I suggested Durante because he is the type of scorer that we need from a team that is young and could see Bosh as an asset up front. I also assume that a trade of that nature would come from a team that is not in contention for the playoffs but would like to be sooner rather than latter.

i like maxiell too.

my fear with a guy like marion is that we are, yet again, trading for a guy on the downslide, rather than someone whose game is actually getting better.

""www.justin.tv/directory?category=sports""

I had a look at it last night poor quality but better than nothing. Hint try to watch it on a smaller screen quality is alot better. I will be using it when I have to work nights.

Bosh....I have had thought about trading Him too...What has He done in any of the playoff games? or any big games? Garnet ownes Him, Lakers own Him, Denver owns Him etc...You get My drift

Wow, I'm sure I could find more lively fervour and atmosphere at the local morgue! Am I the only one who likes dark clouds?

Some thoughts:

1. We knew bringing in a piece like J.O. would require a period of time of serious assessment, and then concrete action - once we (or BC) knew how he affected this team, and how Bosh plays. However, one wants to charecterize his offensive game - we know he brings alot; especially cohones.

2. The whole Sam Mitchell situation had to be resolved. Consider that done.

3. Kapono had to be given the chance to start producing on offense like a 'poor man's Rip Hamilton'. That's why he's here. Not only does it define and bolster our 'only defined SG is AP' ridiculousness. I mean really? How can we only have a backcourt of one SG? I know that Bosh was fuming about this, and this was one of the first things that Triano set about tweaking. I personally am liking how JK has been played by him. I think he really is an asset. Trade him if you want, but make damn sure you get value.

4. BC still has in season free agency choices and some small trade chips to play. Little as they may seem.

5. AP's contract is up but I would certainly trade him for a Sefolosha type, or others who have been mentioned and still have mileage on their rookie contracts.

6. I think that Bellinelli wants to be moved here. I'm not saying we can get him for nothing - but I think you can get a dud like Marcus Williams for zilch - and I'm not buying. If anything Bellinelli is incentive to trade with GSW in some capacity. With JK, Sefolosha and Bellinelli we would have a young and versatile SG core.

7. I'm thinking about where we will be in a year. It's kind of like waiting for a train in the rain. But hey, these are my favourite times. I think it takes some serious adversity to forge teams into steel. Especially when they think they should be creaming everybody else.

Cheers to RAPTORS HQ trio. You guys are the rock of ages indeed.

I was watchin some of the highlights of other teams and I got to thinking.

Orlando beat the suns even though Dwight only played in half the game, they then beat the Jazz without Dwight and the Warriors without Dwight.

Are the Magic a rebounding machine without Dwight? Nope...without Dwight they really don't have a starting powerforward or center in the league.

The Raps start JO and Bosh. No reason why they shouldn't be rebounding a lot better. This team has the talent but unfortunately they are not playing as a team.

BC has done a good job of putting together the talent. However BC better hope he put together a group of guys that can play like a team, Jay Triano better hope he can get them playing like a team...and most guys on this team better hope they can start playing like a team or they will be taking paycuts...because winning brings in the dollars (unless your a star player).

Fizzle, those are ambitious moves. A team can wonder around a long time in the NBA wilderness before they stumble upon a talent like VC or Bosh. I think you play every card in the deck to maximize your chance at making a long run with Bosh. Who knows how long before we get a player of his calibre and work ethic again?

Renato, I think its easier to "lift" a team when the superstar is on the wing (and even centre) rather then their PF. As a wing your less reliant on others to set you up, you have a greater "attack" area on the court, and you have the ball more, so you can make opportunities for others. I'm not disagreeing with you as much as saying that your beef should be more the position he plays rather then what he is or isn't doing.

Mixed bag of thoughts

1)Following the end of a rookie contract, almost every rookie signs their first big money deal with the team their currently with. Getting a player in that kind of position would be a great way to add a building block for the semi-long term. A situation along the lines of Kleiza, where the home team doesn't have space or inclination to resign him. If we wanted a player with good upside in this type of deal, it would cost us Bargani.

2) Our competitive window, as I see it, has two phases. One is one extra year of Chris Bosh. The other is four more years of Calderon. There is no way we can add pieces to the team, have them gel, and have the unit running at its best before Bosh's contract ends. Best case is getting key piece (s)before Bosh's contract ends,then getting them to gel with some movement on the bottom of the rotation. With that timeline the Raps should be playing their best bball in the last two years of Jose's contract.

3) What Scares Me: The sequence of signing Free Agents in the summer of 2010. You have all that capspace, but you have to sign the new free agent(s) first, thus taking you close to the soft cap. Then, you sign your own free agent (Bosh), since we can only exceed the soft cap to re-sign our own free agents. This is how things went with the Clippers. Baron had to sign first, under the assumption that Brand would follow. Brand has a change of heart = Philly bound. Don't get me wrong its a risk that Miami, and Cleveland will have as well. The key will be having Bosh committed to resigning. I think that's why Bryan Colangelo was willing to sacrifice so much for JO's expiring deal. He's got till summer 2010 to upgrade the rest of the roster to Bosh's liking, then hit a home run with Bosh's sidekick. Plan B would resemble (IMHO) what Detroit did when they traded G.Hill. Use the capspace to get a bunch of above average starters undervalued starters in, and build from there. And I mean legit starters for the long term, not 3 year placeholder ones like Parker and Garbajosa were.

wtf - I think you're on to something there - their defense is way better last 3 games, jose's a great distributer and shooter, we've seen these guys perform, they've just got to get it together and they've got a chance against anybody...

Seriously you guys are crazy and I now losing hurts and to see this team below .500 doesn’t make things any better…

But trading Bosh….Friggin WOW why would you trade a 24 years old All-Star not Super-Star there is a big difference but why o why would you trade a 24 years old All- Star for a bunch of unproven players. A guy with great work ethnic, and who is one of the best offensively big man in the game.

Chris Bosh has is issues

- average defender (below average at times but good other times)
- not the greatest rebounder ( Good but not great)
- lack passion and intensity at times (especially on the defensive end)
- lacks toughness and killer instinct ( this might be is worst flaw)

I won’t comment on his good because every one who watches a Raptors game knows all of CB4 positive which covers all is negative if he is on cue.

Toronto Media (consist of those two play by play morons who annoy the shit out of me) and Bosh set himself up for this bashing. There promote him as been such a great leader with toughness with his new reform defense intensity and leadership but truth of the matter is it was the same CB4.

Yes he did gain valuable experience from the Olympics and better is offensive skills but that was about it.

Than Chris came out with is running for MVP. We all now what happen to that!!!

So yes CB4 is still the Man. We don’t need to trade him, is PASSION and TOUGHNESS is questionable and is lack of INTENSITY on defense needs to improve but that about it.

The Guy is 24 give him a friggin break. Shit I so tired of the whole trading Bosh non-sense.

Trade Kobe!

...umm....

anyone notice that juwai has been cleared for physical activity? does that mean he'll dress to play tonight?

While I feel for all the city dwellers and the TSN2 fiasco, I have to chuckle to myself.

Growing up in the country, I didn't even have cable and had to listen to the damn games on the radio, staring at the friggin ceiling....once in a while you got the priviledge of watching Rod Black on CTV.

Now that I have Starchoice, I just kick back and watch every game....except lately I have to admit I haven't exactly been glued to the TV.

Dare I say I miss TJ Ford?

Howland, I would trade those D-leaguers you mentioned too, but who will take them?

Chris Bosh has is issues

- average defender (below average at times but good other times)
- not the greatest rebounder ( Good but not great)
- lack passion and intensity at times (especially on the defensive end)
- lacks toughness and killer instinct ( this might be is worst flaw)

Don't forget He is not reliable to score the big basket at end of game for a win

Quite a few flaws I think

I've been thinking that we should look at trading Bosh for a while now. He's a very good player but I constantly ask myself, do I really see Bosh leading us to a championship? Championship teams have a star that can *create* shots for themselves in the playoffs. Pierce, Parker, Wade, Billups, Kobe, MJ, etc etc. I don't see Bosh being that kind of player... or anyone on our roster but Bargnani (he's shown flashes).

I think now's the time to sell while Bosh's stock is high. Do you think we could do something like Bosh for Marion and Beasley?

Also, I think Barg's game would improve a hell of a lot if he was playing his natural position at PF with Bosh out of the picture.

People talking about trading Bosh to build to a championship are insane. YOU WILL NOT GET BACK ANYTHING OF VALUE IN A TRADE INVOLVING BOSH. All you will get is possibilities (a couple of young players, some picks and some cap relief to look forward to). Do you think Memphis is going to win a championship based on the team they assembled? How bout NJ?
Bosh's problem is that he is playing by himself on most nights and getting pounded as a result. Calderon is a good starting PG but he is still not at a level where teams fear him. If he gets to that level, it will remove some of the pressure on Bosh. That is why our suspect wing play is what is really killing this team. Not Bosh. Not ONeal. Not Calderon. Not even Bargnani. Because Calderon isn't at the level he needs to be (and I believe he will get there eventually but he is only in his 4th year) the wings need to pick it up but there is no one there who can hit a shot consitently or create their own offence at all. That is what the Raptors need to address by either a trade, FA or someone who is there already stepping up. I don't think it is a suprise that the Raps wins last week came as a result of their Wings (Kapono and Moon) both having better games. All this panic about trading away Bosh and Calderon and everyone else is just crazy. The only reason you do that is to blow up the team and start from scratch and that won't happen in the middle of a season.

Trade Bosh!
Well, he will be back, but that does not matter much. The fact is that he is starting to sour and get a little of Lebronitis (the condition where, no matter how incredible you are, you can never get enough recognition to fill your ego). New York will soon be too small for James as Toronto will be for Bosh. Hate to say it, but he's been a tall Vince lately.

why in a million years would we trade bosh? he's our best player... one of the best in the L

Hey fellas, justin tv sucks the choad. Use this site.. http://www.atdhe.net/ its great quality too. If ya have an LCD tv and the cable hook ups, put it on your tv. Thats what I have done.

Thats it!! I've found the secret to the raps coming alive!! All it takes is the fans to give them some heartfelt BOOing!! As soon as they did, the entire team sparked!

wow...booing fans might have just saved the raps season.

nevermind.

beautiful picture of the sky. wondering if you guys took that?

Raps suck. Bosh sucks. That is the summary from tonite's game.

Next.

Another assumed loss, another 3 hours of my life not wasted. Getting on a role here. Any suggestions for sites with solid info on developing trade scenarios?

where art thou BC!!!

I menitoned a dozen games or so ago I did not like Bosh's body language on the bench Having a VC on the bench now to Me it looks like He has quit on the team.

^^^^^^LMFAO....LMFAO.....LMFAO

Bosh my Man I tried to defend you and this is what do....my o my....my sadness has turn into laughter. I can not watch this team any more.

Thanks for nothing....I still have F**kIng Fate I still do please God help this Team

Viewers discretion is advised. The following is rated R for strong language and sujestive themes....Blow this piece of shit team up. They had that god damn lead and of course they blew it. I'm sick of this. The Raps may be one of my fav teams due to being Canadian but enough is enough. The Jazz now have my full attention. Trade Bosh. Trade O'Neal. Trade Bargnani..Hell I don't care if they get less then what they got for VC. 12 points on 6-20 shooting? WHAT?? Get somebody who knows how to play against all teams not just someone who can be a bottom feeder. Only one who is showing some sack out there is Jose. I hope JO pulls a melee at the Palace and punches Bosh in the face for acting like a sissy. Get a spine already. Ugh, time to pound back some bourbon. Sorry for the swears.

Oh man, these reactions are great! Hey Howland, Franchise, Vicious D, I have a hypothetical question. I am not sure how long you guys have been running the site, and I am aware there have been some hard times in the past, but is there a threshold for terribleness this year at which you would consider putting the site on hold (i.e. not posting for a while)? Not that I want that or anything, just wondering.

Woah - just got home from work and not looking forward to watching the recorded game...yikes.

One thing though on the venom, I don't want to go all "Doug Smith" here but easy on the F bombs ha ha. We don't mind airing frustrations but any comments that are just one big mess of swearing and incoherency needs to go to real GM not here. Those comments will be deleted.

That being said, I'm guessing I'm going to be doing quite a bit of ranting of my own in a few hours here...

PS - Nope, HQ has been around since early 05 so we're not abandoning ship yet. We've been through rougher days (hell we started the site during the Rafer Alston era) so we'll keep plugging away...even if it means starting to talk Draft 2009 in December...

Surprise, Surprise... Smitch gets canned and for some reason the Raptors aren't undefeated?!?
Haven't posted in a while on this site as the level of discourse this year has hit an all time low. Since the beginning of the year I've been saying that too many basketball geniuses on this site had scapegoated this team’s failures on Sam Mitchell. Now, we want to blame and trade the only legitimate blue chip talent on this team, that last month was playing at an MVP level. Pathetic.
Well wake-up and smell the losses! It has to obvious now... THE TALENT ON THIS TEAM IS JUST NOT GOOD! We have the absolute worst 3’s and 2’s in the league. It's that simple. The Kapono, Parker, Moon, Graham, Adams poo-poo platter is an embarrassment! And low and behold, Bargnani has retreated back into his sulky, crappy shell. Brian Colangelo, you wear this mess all over your fancy-boy suits. Get ready for a loooonnnnnggg season boys and girls.

its past dec 15th.... where the hell are our new players

Ha, if you thought what I said contained a few too many swears, I would love to hear a recording of your reaction once the game is done. I am willing to bet you will swear more then a French trucker lol. Maybe you should add a religious section to this site to maybe bring some luck to our side.

Couple points:

Don't trade Bosh. Have you guys ever heard of the saying you don't know what you got until its gone? There is a reason Donnie Walsh mentioned Bosh as a great player, there is a reason Phil Jackson was fined 250 000 for commenting on Bosh, there is a reason he was chosen to team USA and there is a reason he has made three allstar teams at the age of 24.

Is Bosh Lebron? Nope....is he KG or Duncan? Nope...is he Kobe? Nope. However he is an allstar and the best player we got. Some people have been saying trade him....trade him for who? Who do you expect to get back....and if we did trade him for other players do you think those players wouldn't be critiqued? Then we'd have a bunch of people screaming about how we were stupid to trade Bosh.

You cannot trade Bosh because you will not get even value. THe only other players who would get you back equal value are players who other teams have already classified as untouchables.

I think the biggest problem with this team is the is the chemistry. They are not playing together and they do not have a real leader. Bosh has not shown he is a great leader yet....JO was never able to lead the Pacers although he was their best player. Sam Mitchell at one point in time was a real leader for these guys but since then the players started tuning him out and we all know what happened after that.

This team needs to get their head out of their asses. THey've shown they have the talent as evident of their play during spurts of a game. However when the going gets tough these guys fold. They need some individuals to step up and lead this team when they struggle to help them get back on track. Bosh seems to get frustrated when things get tough and so he can't put the guys on his back and they fold.

That is what the difference between an allstar and a franchise talent is. There aren't too many franchise talents around and there is noway anybody will trade one of those types of talents so we better hope Bosh can emerge into one or as a team we can develop some toughness and start to lead each other on.

Okay guys, I know I'm going to get slammed for defending Bosh but I have to say this. I just watched Bosh's press con and I can guarantee you that he is hurting right now. He's under the weather (cold) and worn down.

I hate to give him an out, but he needs a vacation. Too much ball over the summer hurt him big time. Instead of hitting his stride as the season wore on, he hit his peak at the beginning of the season thanks to the Olympics. Then he gassed. And now it's going to be up and down all season until he takes some time off.

Shitty.

Just say the Dallas game. Can anyone say lottery? Scary, I know. How long can we keep saying, "it's early in the season, let's not jump the gun." 2 months are in the books....sorry, early is a thing of the past.

Okay okay... back to the trade ideas...(someone save me from myself..PLEASE)

3 Way trade with Phoenix and Sacramento

To Toronto:
Nash + Barnes + Hawes + K.Martin

To Phoenix:
Calderon + Kapono + Hump

To Sacramento:
Bargs + Graham + L.Admunson + Toronto Draft Pick

This helps Phoenix since they want to run slower half court sets now.

This helps Sacramento get rid of a larger contract when they have an overload of SG/SF players and gives them a Draft Pick.

This helps Toronto by giving them more of a running playmaker and a slashing scorer (locked up for 5 years) and some good bench players.

The reality.... Phoenix and Sacramento would have to be OUT OF THIER MINDS to make these deals.... but a guy can dream.

Nash/Ukic/Solomon
Martin/Parker
Barnes/Martin/Adams
Bosh/Moon/Jawai
Oneal/Hawes/Vos

Interesting press release sent to us by the Raps tonight...

NATHAN JAWAI MEDICAL UPDATE

The Toronto Raptors announced Wednesday that forward-centre Nathan Jawai (pronounced JA-why) has been cleared to begin physical
activity. Jawai has been sidelined since training camp.

Jawai, 22, had been held out for precautionary reasons after an abnormality was detected during normal procedural pre-season cardiac
screening.

The club acquired the draft rights to Jawai from the Indiana Pacers on July 9. He was the 41st overall selection in the 2008 NBA Draft. He is the first indigenous player from Australia to be drafted by an NBA team.

tv broadcast crew expecially JA getting a little sick when discussing AB. I can't even listen to the game anymore sound is turned off. I don't care for MD either. Boy do I have the blas!

don't ya love the first line in cbs sports recap

"Down by 12 points after one quarter, the Dallas Mavericks knew better than to panic. Instead, they waited for the struggling Toronto Raptors to crack. It didn't take long. "

This is what happens when your heart and soul, team captain and leader, is your coach and there is no one to fill his shoes when he's canned.

We're better tactically but someone on the court needs to step up and crack a whip. This team is more talented than they are showing us right now, I'm certain, but there is no spark to light the fire. They relied on Sam for this for too long...who's going to step up?

wtf,
Okay, we all know that you are right, but we are seeing the light in Bosh fade fast and we are feeling like we have a Vince situation on our hands. We'll see if he is the star in how he responds.
I agree that he does not look like he is together right now. Maybe he is injured. Sam rode him pretty hard at the start.
Problem is, things are not getting better. Joey Graham will soon be one of our best players.

Problem is this team is imbalanced. Too much of their potential and realized talent exists at the PF spot. So it's time to turn that talent into talent at the other spots to balance the team.

It's strange because on paper you put two 20p 10reb guys together with a solid point guard, you should be getting some results. You back the up the bigs with an offensively multi-faceted, solid defending big and you should be ok. Add the best three point shooter in the league, a veteran Euro League MVP in Parker and you should have a solid team.

Here's the problem, we have stunted Bargnani's growth to the point where he isn't a reliable contributor to a competitive team. The problem with his drafting wasn't his talent, it was that his natural position was the same as the most accomplished talent already on the team. He doesn't get shot opportunities in spots where he would be comfortable taking them and is a forgotten option most times by a point guard who is most comfortable feeding the established PF to pad his numbers. This problem is compounded by the fact that the established PF has some serious conditioning issues that prop up each season, and does not have the physical frame to hold up at a high level for an entire season at his position, so to maintain himself he is becoming more reliant on the easy jump shot.

The time has come to make the choice -- Bosh or Bargnani. We can't get the most out of both of them simultaneously, and waiting for the latter to develop into a strong centre is wasting the prime play of the former on a team lacking in so many other areas. Something has to give.