Tip In, Raptors' Post Game: Pocket Full of Posey

by RaptorsHQ - Archives on Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM EST

The Hornets are sure glad to have Posey on their side...

Why does it that these Sunday start times seem like they're all over the place?

I can never figure out if I've gotta eat lunch first, wait for halftime, or delay my dinner. One day, I hope NBA schedule makers figure it out.

However, in a poor shooting performance, it was maybe the Raptors that were in dire need of sustenance.

In what can be categorized as a learning game, the Raptors tested themselves against one of the top teams of the Western Conference and found themselves not entirely outclassed. In fact, if the Raptors could have shot a higher percentage than their fairly terrible 41% from the floor, they probably could have come out with the win. What was most encouraging to me, however, was that the Raptors kept themselves in the game despite the fact that the Hornets threatened to break the game open at several points in time. And defensively, the Raptors remained steadfast in their resolve to protect the paint for most of the afternoon.

They just did it against the wrong team.

With a slow start on the offense, the defense of the Raptors seemed to get energized thanks to some good rebounding from Jamario Moon. Throughout the game, Moon was active on the glass despite having a poor shooting night and losing his man at times on the perimeter. Switches and containment of Chris Paul seemed to be extremely effective for most of the game until the final few minutes. The Raptors started to figure out that going to the inside against the Hornets seemed like the proper course of attack in the first quarter. Jermaine O'Neal got touches in the post and got to the free throw line as a result. Balanced scoring from the Raptors seemed to be the order of the day as well, as all the starters got their hands on the ball and threatened to score, making life extremely difficult for the Hornets. With Calderon picking up two quick fouls, Roko Ukic entered the game with a purpose to push and make the quick smart pass before New Orleans could set their defense. Chris Bosh also brought some much needed hustle by saving a couple out-of-bounds balls.

2nd chance points started to become a factor for the Raptors, but for once, it worked FOR them, rather than against them. Thanks to those hustle plays by Chris Bosh, the Raptors were able to stay with the Hornets despite some awful shooting that saw them lose an eight point lead. As the Raptors continued to struggle from the floor, they began to go away from their inside game, which would prove to be deadly. However, the Raptors continued to make the Hornets take shots deep in the shot clock, and for a while it worked. An 11-0 run sparked by that sharp defense and some aggressive help defense in the post allowed the Raptors to pull the momentum back from the Hornets. By continually pushing the ball up the floor, the Raptors continued to get mismatches for players like Bosh that they could exploit.

However, Parker Posey woke up and started exposing the Raptors from beyond the arc.

One of the concerns with the Raptors bent on clogging the paint is that if they ran into a team that could hoist up 3 pointers and make them consistently, something Howland discussed on Friday, Toronto would need to adjust from protecting the paint to closing out on shooters. Against the Pacers and the Nets, the Raptors didn't truly face a team with multiple outside scoring threats. New Orleans, however, has Posey, Butler, and Stojakovic. All of these players have the ability to punish teams who sag on defense. Against the best 3-point shooting team in the NBA, the Raptors just couldn't adjust their defense properly while continuing to remain sharp on the offensive end.

The droughts on the offensive end started to mount and players like Kapono just could not stick open shots. On the other side, the Hornets continued to make even contested shots and the question would be whether the Raptors could weather the storm in time to win this game, while tweaking their defensive scheme to compensate for the Hornets' ridiculous perimeter shooting. With Posey getting more open looks in the second half, the Raptors found it extremely hard to rally. However, players such as Parker and Kapono started to find Posey out on the perimeter, making the Hornets drive more into the paint.

It was here that we saw Jay go with a smaller lineup that included Graham at the PF position along with Parker and Moon to round out the Raptors lineup. While smaller, this lineup allowed the Raptors to have one of their most athletic lineups on the floor while not giving much up on the glass. With Bargnani unable to score, I thought Triano's usage of this lineup was key to keeping the Raptors within striking distance of pulling off a win against one the best of the West.

With just over seven minutes to go, the Raptors had to figure out how to keep exploiting the absence of Tyson Chandler on the interior but they they just couldn't keep it going. Bosh took his own fair share of perimeter shots and one particular ill-advised 3-pointer. With guys like Parker and Kapono unable to get hot, second chance opportunities thanks to rebounds by Moon and Calderon gave the Raptors a glimmer of hope as the game threatened to run away from them. Triano even tried to substitute out Calderon with Graham at the end of the game, leaving Moon on Chris Paul in attempt to put a better group of athletes on the floor to protect against the New Orleans' dribble-and-kick out offense. However, CP3 found a wide open Rasual Butler to put the final dagger into the Raptors as the clock wound down.

Nevertheless, the Raptors are starting to play more like a team on both ends of the floor, and I'm starting to feel that magic that I haven't felt for two years. That feeling that the Raptors don't have players that necessarily stand out every night, but have a team that is incredibly difficult to play against because it's five players playing as one. For most of the game, the Raptors remained competitive without ever needing to battle back from a completely insurmountable odds. If players like Kapono and even Bosh could have hit from their regular percentage, perhaps I'd be writing a very different recap. Calderon, of course, was on fire, but even with the rest of the team's shooting difficulties, I'd have to say that we saw lots of interesting and encouraging signs from this loss.

The Raptors can be fairly proud of the effort. It just wasn't good enough against one of the best.

However, there's little time to dwell on the past. Or heck, it's better to dwell on happier times of the recent past, as in Friday, as the New Jersey Nets enter the ACC to play against the Raptors tomorrow. In order to pull out a win, we have to look for the Raptors to take care of these three keys:

1) Build on Friday -

Despite the feel-good of the trouncing the Raptors laid out on the Nets, Toronto will have to build on the defense that they've put together in their two recent wins, while starting to compensate for teams that start to use the 3-pointer to attack and break things down. Against the Nets, I just don't think that the Raptors have to worry about hot 3-point shooting from anyone other than Bobby Simmons, but with Lawrence Frank being one of the first coaches to be exposed to the Raptors' new defensive scheme, it'll be interesting to see what adjustments he makes tomorrow. Therefore, it'll be up to Triano to figure out from this Hornets loss what to do in the case that a team DOES start to get hot from the 3-point line.

Oh yeah, keep being physical with Carter and Harris please. It worked too well to not do again.

2) Brook Lopez -

If Hump makes it back, he couldn't have come at a better time. If not, we'll probably see just what Jake Voskhul can bring on the glass. With Brook Lopez undoubtedly becoming a larger factor every time the Raptors play the Nets, it'll be up to team rebounding to give guys like Bosh and O'Neal opportunities to tap loose balls out to friendly Raptor jerseys. Or, the Raptors could attempt to draw fouls on the big man, who has had his issues defensively due to his lack of experience.

3) Consistent Production -

Get to the rim, run, shoot open shots. The Raptors need to get back to that again tomorrow night, especially against a team I feel is inferior regardless of record. Yes, the Raptors have had a tougher schedule and are coming off a back to back night against the Hornets, but the Raptors simply cannot take any steps back at this point. Getting Kapono, Moon, and Graham back to their numbers in the past few games is important because the Raptors need to establish a benchmark and norm for their players to be hitting. Consistent production is the name of the game, which is the hallmark of all top tier NBA teams.

Vicious D

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Comments

As I expected the Raps to lose today, I will be more interested to see how they rebound tomorrow night against a Nets team that will be looking for payback. If this team has truly turned a corner then they will need to come out right away and lay down the law. If they don't, then nothing has truly changed. Too often we have seen the Raps lose to a good team, put up a good fight and show tons of signs of going somewhere (lakers game comes to mind) only to have a massive let down the next game, even against beatable opponents. If they can put the pressure on Jersey early and take them out of the game again, then I will finally agree that this team is going somewehre. But, as it stands now, beating Indiana and NJ and losing a close one to NO does not progress make.

by McGateway on Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Totally agree McGateway, tomorrow night is a big test, especially since VC will be ready to go.

PS - Here's the press release from the Raps on the Voskuhl signing:

RAPTORS SIGN FREE AGENT JAKE VOSKUHL

The Toronto Raptors announced Sunday they have signed free-agent centre Jake Voskuhl. Per team policy, financial details were not disclosed.

Voskuhl, 31, is an eight-year NBA veteran. He has played for Chicago,
Phoenix, Charlotte and Milwaukee, averaging 4.3 points, 3.6 rebounds and
15.1 minutes in 412 regular season games. He has also made 92 career starts. He has recorded career bests of 20 points (April 6, 2002 at
Minnesota) and 16 rebounds (January 20, 2004 versus San Antonio).

The 6-foot-11, 255 pounder was selected 33rd overall in the 2000 NBA Draft by the Chicago Bulls. He was acquired by Phoenix in October 2001 and spent four seasons with the Suns. He posted career highs of 6.6
points, 5.2 rebounds, 24.3 minutes and 43 starts in the 2003-04 campaign.

Voskuhl participated in his lone postseason action in 2002-03 as a member of the Suns, where he averaged 6.0 points, 3.7 rebounds and 16.3
minutes in six games. He shot .706 (12-17) from the field and .923 (12-13) from the free throw line.

The native of Katy, Texas averaged 6.3 points, 6.4 rebounds and 1.4 blocks in 138 career games at the University of Connecticut. He helped the Huskies capture the 1999 NCAA Championship.

by Franchise on Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

i feel the need for a list of all-time top 10 raptor-killers. anybody selling?

by benjibopper on Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

I was at the game: good atmosphere and people were patient and understanding with our struggles. We lost because our shooters were ice cold. The Hornets didn't allow us to run and closed out on our shooters. We have to keep in mind though that they have had for 2 seasons pretty much the same coach and the same roster whereas we just changed the coach and changed almost half the roster.
I'm not sure what to make of our offense - the defensive system looks OK and we just have to work out the kinks. Our offense looks like a motion type with ball movement from one side to another, then ball in the post, then attacking the rim or dishing it out for the shooters.
Tonight we were one step to slow in getting into position and took a lot of contested shots. In a motion offense though we need a slasher to exploit the seams created by the ball movement, especially when the shots are not falling.
Defensively we gave up the middle thus creating multiple opportunities for CP3 to find the open man. In addition the rotations were inexistent or late, I hope because the instincts are not there yet in terms of defining and covering the second, third and fourth option.
You can see how players were thinking too much instead of reacting. However the team chemistry looked very good and the effort was there too. The Hornets are at this point a much better oiled machine with strengths and weaknesses pretty similar to ours.
The problem is we don't have almost any real practice time to implement and adjust the defensive and offensive systems. It is hard to learn in games, especially against the top-tier teams. Let's hope the West Coast trip will be a cathartic event, the same as the one in the beginning of season 2006-2007 when we found out who we are and what can we do.

by Daniel on Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Did anyone else notice Bargnani shrug-off Triano in the first half when he got the quick hook for his putrid play and then barely play in the 2nd?

I hope this guy gets his butt nailed to the bench and demands a trade so we can get his attitude out of here. He seems to be the only one not buying into the "new" team-concept.

I'd trade him right now for ANY wing player in the NBA and a 2nd round pick. Let's just cut our losses and go with guys who actually care about the team and winning.

by Rappies on Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Unfortunately I missed this game and forgot to set the PVR before hitting the road. So I had to rely on the "Game in an Hour" and Franchise's great wrap ups of course.

This loss boiled down to one missing ingredient. Toughness. Plain and simple.

The raps guards got outmuscled on the offensive end and it got into the heads of the great shooters. The refs kept a lock on their whistles and it favoured the Hornets guards that were consistently pushing around the Raps guards.

Couple that with the "soft" double teams (Bosh and Calderon were almost comical) and it was a recipe for a loss.

Don't get me wrong. Good game. Tough team to beat. I understand that. But the Hornets have holes and if the Raps want to be a top tier team, there are toughness issues to address.

That said, it's Dec. 15. Let the games begin!

by mcclarky on Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Alright, let's give it a shot re: the top 10 Raptor killers: (in order)

1. Kobe Bryant (if for no other reason than his 81 against us).

2. Vince Carter (regular season and playoffs).

3. Allen Iverson (always puts up big numbers against us, and killed us in the 2001 playoffs)

4. Larry Johnson (killing us in the playoffs)

5. Mike Bibby

6. Lebron James (he's an everybody killer though)

7. Tracy McGrady (the more boos he heard, the more points he dropped on us)

8. Paul Pierce (that recent game sticks out)

9. Jason Kidd

10. Chris Childs, he killed us because he didn't know how to keep score.LOL

That's my list.....

by 2nd Raps Fan in LA on Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

1. Kobe Bryant 81 pts. Nuff said.

2. Vincent Carter: too many memories. Playoffs still fresh in mind.

3. Lebron James: Don't give him a reason to drop 20 in the 4th like Bosh's gf's friend did.

4. Ray Allen: From days of Milwaukee to Seattle to Boston he has spanked the Raptors.

5. Tracy McGrady: He made blood boil when he was in Orlando.

6. Allen Iverson: He always finds a way to beat the Raptors.

7. Dwight Howard. Averaging 20 and 20 in a playoff series smarts and factor in his regular season play is just as disheartening, you can't help but have him there.

8. Any broadcasting station that the Raptors are on. They always find a way to ruin our lone team.

9. Leo Rautins: Embarassment to Canadian national team and a terrible announcer. My ears bleed each time he speaks.

.................................................................................and
10. Rob Babcock: If the NBA were a prison, Rob Babcock turned the Raptors into everybody elses pretty little girl.

by Thor on Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

I do not know why everyone hates on Babcock so much. Sure he blew it with the Carter deal but not a lot of teams have gotten much for their all-stars who want off their team. He made some nice finds with Calderon and Ukic so it is not like he was a total disaster (in fact his draft record is actually better than BCs when you add Charlie V and the Good Joey Graham). He made mistakes but everyone knows that Rafael was McCusky's (not sure if I spelt that right) pick and he probably should have drafted Granger instead of Joey. On the other hand, BC has drafted Bargs and not much else (tucker should have been Milsap, Bargnani should have been just about anyone of Foye, Aldridge, Gay, or of course Roy and Jawai may have been the biggest waste of a draft pick in Raptor history).

by McGateway on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

I have Sam Cassell on my all time Rap Killer list. I think Chauncey isn't that far behind.

Poking around basketballreference.com as I sometimes tend to do. Looking a KapOne's career stats, and he really really needs to shoot more.

He leads the league in 3P% over the last 5 years in shooting percentage (for anyone with more than 200 games and avg more than 3 shots a game). Not that that's much of a surprise we all know he needs to shoot, but really by how much!

JK averages 5 3pa per 48 minutes with an insane .464.

The next closest is Peja: 7.6 3pa/48 @ .413

Kyle Korver gets 8.6/.406

and surprisingly, Matt Bonner comes in next @ 3.7/.399

I know JK likes to only take good shots, but I think he can afford to take 2 more attempts per game, even if it maybe mediocre.

by ustation on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Tuff loss in the sense that it was a winnable one, but great to see the team sticking in the game. As vd said in the recap, the pre-triano team would have folded once new orleans made their run and would have been down 20 instead of 7 or 8.

Cant believe a big chunk of the best nation of sports fans cant even watch their team tonight.

by fromlongrange on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

I assume that Voskuhl was signed because we're about to hear that Jawai's career is over, not because of a trade.

Colangelo has his hands tied with this short, untalented roster, unless he's ready to unload Bargs (which I pray he will be soon.)

by Aaron on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Okay... this is totally just for fun, but I was looking at the Dallas Mavs payroll and saw a trade possibility (FOR FUN! Not saying this is what BC should look for!!)

If you try to match salaries you could deal Bosh and Oneal with a small contract throw in for:

Nowitz, Terry and Howard

LOL!

So then the raps starting lineup would be....

Calderon
Terry
Howard
Nowitz
Bargs

Hmmmmmmmmmm.

Naaaaah, I love the Bosh man too much.

by mcclarky on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

mcclarkey: i hate dirk too much.

i agree that babcock gets a bad rap, but still, thor's prison metaphor was dee-liteful.

despite kobe's 81 i gotta put vc as the #1 raptor killer. he killed us as a raptor and he kills us as a net. hopefully not tonight tho.

by benjibopper on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

I was willing to understand that Sam Mitchell’s tough love approach did not suit everyone especially Bargnani however if Triano can’t get Bargnani’s game going in the next 20 games or so, my patience will have run out. It would be interesting to know how he interacts with his teammates. Having a guy that talented disappearing in games can’t be easy for them to take either.

by OldSchool on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

December 15th is here! Anything going down??

by paul on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Can't believe Theus is out too now!

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3770825

6 coaches before Christmas, that's gotta be a record.

Pretty big game tonight if you think about it. With Dallas and the West swing up next, Toronto can't fall too far under .500 here, and needs these inter-divisional matches for later in the year.

PS - Loving the fact that almost all the players are available now on ESPN's trade machine. How about this idea:

Philly is struggling in the half-court and needs a solid shooter to put with Brand and co. They'd also love to trim Reggie Evans' contract so:

Anthony Parker and Jamario Moon for Thad Young and Evans.

Gives the Raps the athletic 3 they need to start games next to Kapono, and gives them some rugged rebounding and D off the bench. You could probably even alter it a bit if the Raptors thought that put them low at the wing position.

by Franchise on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

5 coaches before christmas was a record. 6 is just ridiculous.

and there may be a west coast swing coming, but it shouldn't be a terribly scary one. (hopefully)

they're at OKC, Dallas, the clippers, the kings, portland, and GWS.

would be nice for the raps to start pulling out some wins against teams with records better than .500 and these are the kinds of teams they should try and get them against.

by papa on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Is it just me or is this NBA season totally lacking excitement? It's not just the Raps, it's the whole league. 27 out of 30 teams were basically out of the running within a few weeks of the season opener. I can't recall a more boring first third of a season in recent memory...

Some thoughts:

Raps killers: come on, guys, have a little creativity. Guys like Lebron, Dwight Howard and co. aren't Raps killers, they're everybody-killers. I would go with a more obscure player: Roger Mason Jr. Every single time we played the Wizards the past few years, he would be absolutely lights-out for some reason.

Bargnani: I've been as big a Bargnani apologist as anyone, but I'm starting to get fed up, not just with him specifically, but with the team as well. Really, in three years you haven't figured out what position to play your former number 1 pick at? Well, maybe that's because his natural position is the 4 and I hear we already have someone there. The Raps main problem is that Colangelo was supposed to solve the team's talent deficiency, and he has been at best a mediocre GM thus far, and you could even argue below-average, during his time here. His good moves have been the marginal moves. Trading Hoffa for Humps is certainly a good deal, but it's not a deal that will turn your team into a contender. Ditto Jamario. The big moves, the ones that DO make or break contenders, he's botched. Bargnani over Brandon Roy and Rudy Gay when we already had a starting 4 and needed athleticism and scoring desperately from the wing positions, that's the kind of move that sets a franchise back a few years. Considering the money he's making, Colangelo hasn't been what we needed from our GM. The Raps main problem is overall lack of talent and there's only one person to blame for that. I was as big a BC supporter as anyone for a long time, but I'm starting to get fed up.

by dissapointed on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

All these firings reminds me of a time when this really geeky guy came up to me looking for help and asked me "How can I become cool?"

I looked him in the eye then kicked over the garbage bin, spat on the trash and lit a cigarette without saying another word.

He looked at me for a sec, then went over and picked up the bin. Then he kicked it over, spat on the trash and took a cigarette from my pack and lit it up.

Then he asked "Am I cool now?"

I replied "No now you're just following a trend".

by ustation on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

^I couldn't agree more regarding Colangelo. The drafting of Bargnani should be regarded as a poor decision for two reasons; the Raps didn't pick the best talent available, nor did they pick for position. I acknowledge that hindsight is 20/20, but looking back now, I have no idea what BC was thinking unless he was looking to dump Bosh. If either of Roy or Gay had been picked, this team would be a serious contender instead of the mediocre squad that it is today.

The worst part is that if you trade Bargs now, you will be getting back pennies on the dollar because it's going to be hard to sell teams on even his potential; he looks like a career 12 and 4 guy who will play great for stretches and disappear for longer stretches. Not exactly Kwame Brown or Olowokandi, but not worthy of a top 10 pick let alone the first overall selection.

If the Raps can get a guy like G.Wallace for Bargnani and another player (Kapono, Hump, Graham) then BC needs to swallow his pride and pull the trigger. He needs to start scouting countries other than Italy for players, coaches and executives; and I would start with the good old United States, at least for the talent portion.

by 2nd Raps Fan in LA on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Disappointed (and everyone else), a little time please. Give the man some time to show you what he’s got. The master plan is still intact. BC has been great at sharing his vision and now we are all forgetting the vision that he outlined for us.

For all you BC criticizers, you have to take the best talent in the draft, not try to fill a position. Although there is some debate, you can’t yet conclude on who the best talent was in AB’s class. Roy or Guy were never considered as number 1s and do you really want Morrison instead of AB? He was the other one mentioned at the time as a possible 1 overall.

Also, the first round is hard enough, trying to find gems in the second round is pure luck. I can’t criticize a GM for missing a Millsap in the second round. For every Millsap there is CDR and other nobodies that are "sure bets" but never make it.

He has yet to "Botch" any big moves. In fact, he has shown he’s not afraid of them. It doesn’t get any bigger than the O’Neal trade. And here is where the path has been well laid out for us which we are all forgetting. O’Neal was brought in to shake things up and ALSO to give us the $23M of cap relief in 2010. So for everyone speculating on what we might get for O’Neal next summer in a salary dump, smarten up! O’Neal is going to get us a great free agent in 2010 not filler in 2009.

It took time for the Marbury trade to pan out in Phoenix, did it not? Just some patience please. Here is how I’m dreaming of it:
BC resigns Bosh in 2010 and uses the O’Neal cap relief to sign O’Neal to a veteran minimum, Stoudemire and Nash. Ukic becomes our primary point guard and BC deals Jose in his prime for a quality SF.

PG Ukic, Nash
SG Stud from the 2009 draft (James Harden?), Kapono
SF Stud we get for Jose, Graham
PF Bosh, Bargnani
C Stoudemire, O’Neal

This line up at a time when Cleveland is back to its former LeBron less glory days and Boston’s big three are fitted for walkers and I think we are right at the top with the Knicks fighting for the Eastern title.

Yes it’s a dream that BC sold me, but I bought in and willing to sit tight and watch the ride.

For all of you worried that Bosh will leave because we are losing, when it comes down to it he is going to care about 2 things: Money (no one can match what we can offer) and possibility of winning (with the BC tone at the top that everything will be done in the pursuit of winning and some key free agent signings in 2010, I say he stays.)

by zona on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Prediction for tonight's game vs. the Nets at the ACC:

Someone throws their shoes at Carter and yells "this your farewell, dog!".

LOL

by 2nd Raps Fan in LA on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

I like that 6ers trade Franchise... I think it would be tough to pry Young away from Philly but worth a try.

As far as Bargs goes, I had an epiphany watching the Indiana game. If you are Colangelo, and your ultimate goal is to keep Bosh in 2010, then you have to trade Bargs... regardless of whether or not you think he will turn in to a start for someone down the line, and here's why. We essentially need to win now... to keep Bosh. And trading Bargs will help in that area, even if he's traded below what Colangelo feels he's worth. In the end, come July 1st 2010, athe Raps management will be holding their collective breath for Bosh to decide whether or not to resign. If he doesn't we are staring at a huge amount of cap space to build around Bargs. And if I had a choice, I would build around Bosh anyday. If Bargs is traded now for a piece that helps us win with Bosh then I'm all for it... because even if Bosh leaves in 2010, we'll have a huge pile of cash to spend on a new team anyway... to build something completely new... and I for one would rather build a team from scratch knowing everything that could be done to make the Bosh led Raptors a winner was done, rather than handicap this superstar's potential by waiting out a talented, but ultimately ineffective prospect.

And up until this realization, I felt that trading Bargs was just not a smart move. But really, when your options are Bosh or rebuilding, if you're going to rebuild start with a fresh foundation, which I just don't believe Bargs can be if he's still here in 2010.

by lessthanzero on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

oh and I love you perfect vision hindsight folks. I remember there was as much buzz to draft the most NBA ready guy - Adam Morrison as anyone else. I remember following that college year more than any and I don't remember many of you calling for Roy!

Can someone from RapHQ bring up the old discussions?

Let's just face it, that was a poor drafting year. Was Bargs my #1? Heck no.. I wanted to trade down and get Ronnie Brewer (check the tape).

by ustation on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Zona, you are truly a dreamer buddy. I think even the most delusional Raps fans would have to say that what you laid out there is more than a bit presumptuous, maybe even preposterous. This is real life not NBA 2K9 where you can just make up a fantasy squad.

The reality is that BC picked a long term project in Bargnani with the 1st pick in the draft, who happens to play the same position as the teams best player, Bosh. When Babcock did essentially the same thing with Villanueva he got panned by fans and the media as an inexperienced buffoon; and the worst part is that Villanueva is, and will be, a better/more versatile player than Bargnani.

BC might end up making lemon aid out of these lemons, but what I'm saying is that the reason he has lemons is because he planted a lemon tree in the first place.

by 2nd Raps Fan in LA on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

2 in LA, I did say it was a dream and although a lot would have to fall in place, it’s not unreasonable. I think the money would work and BC has the connection to those players.

BCs lemon tree may make very good lemonade yet. It sucks that Stern screwed us once again and changed the high school rules so that Oden couldn’t come out, but get over it!

We got what our GM thought was the best available and I don’t think anyone can credibly criticize his pick just yet.

by zona on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Does anybody happen to have a link to a site where i can watch the game seeing that the POS that is Rogers does not have TSN2. I hate rogers.

by Thor on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

thor, it's not the greatest quality, but it does the trick.

http://www.justin.tv/bisktv

by papa on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Rob Babcock is a total moron for the pathetic VC trade.

That's why he sucks. That's why he will never GM again.

I wasn't even gonna mention the often defended Araujo pick. ("It was McCloskey's Fault")

Sorry, gotta blast that guy anytime I see him defended.

by DayOner on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

The raptors need to box the f@#k out and stop settling for jump shots...honestly its terrible...it happened to moon twice in the same possession where he got caught jumping instead of boxing out...if this team wannts to make any noise in the east, they need to learn to box out.

by big d on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

ouch, anneurysm. deja vu. what the hell was that? can we trade this whole team for rodman? worst rebounding team ever. disgraceful game.

by benjibopper on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

31-17 fourth quarter...ewwwwwwwwww

by paul on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Well, they had to work for this one, but they finally managed to get the loss they were trying for. It was close though. They were trying everything to give it to NJ without being obvious, but in the end had to resort to shooting with their eyes closed. It's old school, but it paid off as they narrowly were able to walk away with that L.

You have to hand it to them, there's not too many teams that would resort to shooting with their eyes closed and be able to look themselves in the mirror the next day, but if anyone can do it, our Raps sure can.

Good job guys.

by mcclarky on Dec 15, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions