Tip-In: Toronto Raptors Post Game – Unexpected

by RaptorsHQ - Archives on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST

CB4 Smiling? Feels like it has been a while.

It was just two short weeks ago I was at the ACC and had to witness Vince Carter, in all his glory, absolutely stick it to the Raptors and their fans. Since that time, and much to my dismay, all the sports networks have show the reverse dunk highlight at least ten thousand times…just one shy of number of Rogers adds during a Raps broadcast.

The previous game against the Nets was really a watershed moment for the Raps in this young season. It was the beginning of what turned out to be a brutal streak of games which left one head coach behind and a team looking for a new identity.

I was eager to see how things would turn out this time around and the results were nothing short of shocking. This game was the polar opposite from the last match-up between these two teams. How so? To put last night’s game into context, Roko Ukic had more points and assists than Vince Carter despite having played 10 less minutes. It wasn’t however just Carter’s play that was below par for the Nets. On a whole the team shot a miserable 31% from the field and had a difficult time finding any sort of flow. Maybe their play was simply a reflection of their absolutely non-existent fan base.

I would attribute much of Vince Carter’s play last night to this lack of fan support. As discussed in prior posts, I firmly believe that Carter only gets up for those games where he has something to prove. When he comes to Toronto he wants to quiet the fans. Last night he had nothing to prove and as a result he looked disinterested. This lack of passion showed in his production on the floor. VC stunk it up going 0 for 13 and was a negative 32 during his time on the hardwood. He also showed little desire to attack the rim and perhaps rightfully so. The one time he did get into the paint he met the big body and arms of Jermaine O’Neal.

Carter’s poor shooting percentage was not the only reason the Nets had a bad night at the office on the offensive end. The Raps had a banner game on the defensive end. They were really "getting after it". To hold any team to 31% from the floor means you are doing something right and for the Raps this doing something right means flooding the paint with defenders. For the majority of the evening the Nets were left shooting long jumpers on the offensive end as the Raps were not allowing players like Devin Harris to get to the rim at will.

So bad he should just hide his face.

Harris may be one of the fastest players in the league but on this evening his encountered serious resistance close to the hoop and was either forced to throw-up a wild shot or send the rock back outside to the likes of Bobby Simmons (4-12 FGM-A) and Keyon Dooling (1-10 FGM-A). The Raps defense on the interior was smothering and the Nets go frustrated as a result. Harris was given a technical foul late and the team’s frustration led to 18 turnovers.

Last night was truly a team effort. For the second game in a row Coach Triano’s starting line-up included J-Killa and Jamario Moon and thus it has been a successful formula. I have been preaching to anyone that will listen that with both Bosh and O’Neal up-front, having Kapono in the starting line-up is an absolute no brainer. Kapono’s offensive abilities, which include his craftiness and passing, are just too great to have sitting on the bench. Despite his slow start last night he managed to get on track and was lights out as the Raps put the game out of reach.

Moon’s play has also been refreshing as of late, but the biggest surprise to me is that despite having these two guys who were key bench players in the starting line-up, the bench continues to produce. Graham, Ukic and Bargnani combined for 37 points. Graham was a game high plus twenty eight while on the floor and had an unbelievable dunk which left no-one on the Raps bench sitting. It’s hard to believe he hasn’t had a stinker of a game since getting the minutes.

What’s been great as a fan is to see this team start to have fun again. The five game losing streak really took the wind out of everyone’s sails and this recent taste of winning is buoying spirits. In reality, the past two games have really been the polar opposite of what we have come to expect from this team over the past couple of seasons. Suddenly it’s like the tables have been turned and the Raps are the one’s taking it to the rim while forcing opponents to beat them from the outside.

Now last night was not all good. Despite the concerted effort to clog the paint the team was badly out-rebounded yet again. This continues to surprise me given the length and height the Raps have up front. All in all though it was one of the best played games for this Toronto team all season. This should only help as this team will need to be close to perfect with the New Orleans Hornets coming to the ACC on Sunday. Despite having lost to Boston last night (who doesn’t lose to Boston?) the Hornets are still a premier team in the league having won 7 of their last 9.

To get the latest on the Hornets we turned to Ryan of Hornets247 (www.hornets247.com) in our "Blogging with the Enemy".

RHQ: Talk to us about the team right now. They were viewed as maybe the Lakers toughest comp in the preseason in terms of the West but have stumbled a bit. Will this recent trade help shake things up?

Hornets247: The stumbling has been pretty badly overplayed. They are 12-6 right now, which happens to be the exact same record they had last year after 18 games. The perception that they are struggling comes from two bad games against Houston and the Lakers where they came out flat, their perimeter shots weren't falling, and they fell behind big before barely making it respectable at the end. Peja had a slow start, though he's on fire now, and Tyson had a lot of non-basketball issues he was working through that he's still trying to come back from. The team is fine, though like last year their second unit is pretty ineffectual.

The trade for Antonio Daniels will definitely help. The Hornet's didn't have a backup point, they had two backup shooting guards, and Daniels is a one of my favorite reserve point guards. Never underestimate a calm lead guard.

RHQ: What's up with Mo Pete? Looks like he's getting back into the rotation after injury. He started strong and came into this season in better shape, how key is he to the Hornets playoff run?

Hornets247: I'm not sure if Peterson is going to get his starting spot back. That really depends on whether Rasual Butler can keep his offensive game going. If Rasual keeps it up, his man-to-man defense on wing players is very good, and he'll probably retain the starting spot over Morris. What does that mean for Morris? Either he becomes our primary offensive weapon off the bench, working with Posey and Daniels, or it might make him trade bait. The Hornets have six swingmen, Peja, Butler, Peterson, Julian Wright, James Posey and Devin Brown, and there is only room for 4 of them in the rotation. It wouldn't surprise me to have GM Jeff Bower decide that he needs to move one or two swingmen for a serviceable big man, because our back up big men are beyond atrocious. Peterson would be able to fetch something decent in trade.

RHQ: Sunday's game. What are the keys for New Orleans to getting a W?

Hornets247: The Hornets haven't changed much from last year. Paul always creates open perimeter shots, so last year, the Hornets took a hefty number of threes, and if they weren't falling, relied on Tyson to clean up the misses. If they shot poorly from deep and the rebounding failed, usually the Hornets lost. This year, Tyson is just now rounding into form, so the Hornets are a little more vulnerable if they aren't hitting their outside shots. So watch those percentages from deep and Tyson's activity.

This guy is not Dooling or Simmons.....

Some interesting food for thought there considering how the Raps have been playing defense as of late. This leads us to our three keys.

1. What to do with Peja?– The Raps defensive philosophy of clogging the paint is in for a real test on Saturday. The Hornets feature some great shooters on the outside including Peja who as of late has been lights out (Boston game aside). If the Hornets instantly start making a few shots from the outside what will Triano do? Will he abandon his philosophy and get his guys out guarding the wing or hope the outside shooters have a tough time heating up after being exposed to the Toronto cold. I for one expect Triano to stick to his guns and have his guys defend the interior at whatever the cost. He is still trying to implement a defensive system and principles and I can’t see him abandoning the strategy for one team.

2. West vs. Bosh – I love this match-up. West is vastly underrated as a player and I expect a battle between these guys. Both of these players have solid mid-range games and can put up a double-double in no time. Bosh must outrebound West on Sunday to give the Raps a chance. Blocking West out and keeping him off the glass is an absolute must to stay in this game.

3. Fight Fire With Fire – I for one think whoever shoots better from the outside will win this game. I expect a significant number of threes to be taken in this contest with the likes of Posey, Peja, Butler, Mo P, Kapono, Bargnani etc. Whoever can catch the feeling first will have a solid advantage. What can’t happen however is the Raps falling in love with the three. Establishing the bigs early to open up easy opportunities from the outside is a must. If the Raps start chucking right away the Raps could lose any and all momentum built up from the past two victories.

HOWLAND

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Comments

Boy did we need a game like that.
It looked to me that last night, Jersey quit. Seeing Vince on the bench with that all too familiar expression.

by Tinman on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Despite the losing streak, we saw a lot of things to make us fans think that they just needed time to put things together for longer stretches. Now we're starting to see signs of the team from two years ago, where players were playing to their expectations.

Oh yeah, I'm still not liking Moon's game too much. He's still automatically jumping up for the first attempt, and while he got a few blocks and a lot of steals yesterday, I think we're going to see him rack up fouls and get blown by as a result of biting on pump fakes very soon. Or at least, when we play a team that will challenge him in that way by using pump fakes. So we'll see... I'm not sold on him yet being all the way back into his best form from last year.

by Vicious D on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Am I the only one who notices that there is a certain "air" of confidence brewing amongst the entire team?
Howland you said some really astute points in your post today that really made sense:

1. J-Killa is exactly wher he needs to be in Triano's new offensive sets.

2. The team needed time to adjust to working the "new" system of a new coach.

3. The bench has confidence when they come in the game.

You just can't argue the fact that with change there is a "transition" time to which those who have been used to "high pick and roll" to change your way of thinking takes some getting used to.

I saif this to one of my boys the other day. There was a reason USA basketball hired Jay Triano for the Olympics...Yeah he's that good.

Way to go Jay, keep doin what you're doin. I'm not saying this because he's Canadian, I'm saying this because he's just that good. Period.

I'm out!

Fresh 1

by Fresh 1 on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Am I the only one who notices that there is a certain "air" of confidence brewing amongst the entire team?
Howland you said some really astute points in your post today that really made sense:

1. J-Killa is exactly wher he needs to be in Triano's new offensive sets.

2. The team needed time to adjust to working the "new" system of a new coach.

3. The bench has confidence when they come in the game.

You just can't argue the fact that with change there is a "transition" time to which those who have been used to "high pick and roll" to change your way of thinking takes some getting used to.

I saif this to one of my boys the other day. There was a reason USA basketball hired Jay Triano for the Olympics...Yeah he's that good.

Way to go Jay, keep doin what you're doin. I'm not saying this because he's Canadian, I'm saying this because he's just that good. Period.

I'm out!

Fresh 1

by Fresh 1 on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

-noticed the same thing in regards to confidence, great to see the bench coming in and attacking. Even bargs even though his shot isnt falling

by fromlongrange on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

No mention of Lawrence "the Brain" Frank getting out-coached?

by Raptoronto on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

That was the best team defence I've seen the Raps play since a certain greasy spanish speaking guido was directing traffic....I better head out to the garage and clean out the bandwagon, I'm going to need the room. : )

by Raptoronto on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

1. Good point Raptoronto about Doogie Howser getting outcoached. Of course, there is a little difference in terms of coaching philosophy and preparation since the last time the two teams played ;-)

2. Howland, I know it's your blog but I beg you not to bring over the J-Killa Devlinism. It sounds ridiculous; Kapono is not a gangsta rapper from Brooklyn, he's a surfer dude from SoCal. I don't mind Kap-one as much, even though it has a similar violent subtext, because Jason is seemingly "automatic" from 3. And because Devlin is starting to make me miss Swirsk.

2. Wince's playing-when-he-feels-like-it attitude that the last 2 games reaffirmed is simply nauseating. I was watching the YES broadcast online (partially to get away from Devlin) and Marv and the Czar surmised about the Nets weak 4-6 record at home. In my opinion, this not surprising, as the 2,000 comped "fans" at the Izod Center probably don't make as much of an impact on Wince than 19,800 screaming fans at the ACC giving him the hate on. Which is pretty pathetic since Wince makes $15.2 million yes still can be so affected by his surroundings.

ADVICE TO ALL FANS ATTENDING MONDAY NIGHT'S GAME (I am not): Lay off of Vince, let him suck on his own seeing those Raps jerseys across the court, do not give him any more motivation. Thanks.

by jjdynomite on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

"since a certain greasy spanish speaking guido "

SergiP - care to comment?

by Tinman on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

i don't want to jinx it but i think we.. outcoached our opponent!

by Andre on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Actually, Tinman, I think Renato would be more insulted than Sergi P since "Guido" is "a pejorative slang term for a younger lower class or working class Italian-American or Italian-Canadian male", via http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_(slang)

Of course, Garbo would have likely passed for one, Spaniard notwithstanding.

by jjdynomite on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

people, people, people...

this is why the lows always seem so low. cause we get all crazy on the high!

great win, and it's sure a heck of a lot better watching the raps get on a roll, but they've done it against mediocre teams. and yes the pacers and nets have beat so and so and all that, but consistency is the name of the game.

as I'm sure we as raps fans can attest to.

frank did not get out-coached. and the loss isn't on him. it's on wince who, true to form, didn't show up for a game.

but it is nice to see the guys responding to jay and his schemes, both offensively and defensively.

also, I don't know if anyone else caught but moon post game pretty much said he's having a better time with jay cause he doesn't yell or go crazy when someone makes a mistake! I thought that was funny. and I'm sure as time goes on we're going to hear more stuff like that slowly come out.

especially if they're winning.

by papa on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

VC's own commentary after his last game at the ACC.

http://www.vincecarter15.com/Blog_Inside.aspx?Id=13

by Raptoronto on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

after reading that VC blog and after analyzing all of the other evidence...i think its safe to say that we need to stop booing vince when he comes to town...cause clearly he thrives on that...and it has been made apparent numerous times...so lets not feed the fire k....maybe we should try cheering for him...or better yet...only have a few thousand people attend the game and cheer for the nets...that way it will feel like a home game for the nets, where we have more success...i say we try it out!

by big d on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Tinman, if you are offended by my comments you are welcome to address them with me and the guido's that raised me (we openly welcome Garbo into our clan). Baiting others makes you look more like the Cowardly Lion or the Scarecrow.

by Raptoronto on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

I think what I noticed in the little bit of the game that I watched last night is that the team is getting better at the small things and that is a testimony to Triano's influence. For the past couple of years I've been bothered by watching this team not play "smart" basketball, and often mistakenly attributed to a lack of "basketball IQ" on the team, especially as personified by players like Moon and Graham. Recently, my thinking has shifted. Maybe it's not about basketball IQ necessarily, but about a clear system that allows a player to know what their role is in a game situation and how they can use their skills to perform that role competently. Joey is having success of late because he knows what to do, where to be, and with a tighter rotation now in place, how he fits in the scheme when he's on the floor with certain players. I don't know how all of this will translate long term with respect to wins and losses but we now have a team developing an identity and style that should be fun to watch over the rest of the season.

by Interloper on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Coach JT, is an elephant!!!
Why do i say that?
He remembered how Atlanta played us in the begining of the season, having johnson on Jose.
Jose getting frantic, which led to what..say it with me folks..over 20 turnovers!!
JT is a smart man, why do i say so, well the few times Vince tried to drive, he got smacked..thats right..smack vince..vince settles..easy innit?
I was going to stop watching raptor games if they lost vince again, thats how deep my hate goes, and i cant help myself..i will boo!
-sigh-

by Keon Clark on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Actually, being Italian-Italian at the opposite of American-Italian or Canadian-Italian, "Guido" means nothing to me, it is just an Italian name, kind of anonymous and not very much used anymore and that is about it.
Now on the game, in the previous blog I posted the translation of an interesting interview of Bargnani, on various things, one of them on his view of playing the three and it was like: well they asked me to do it but I always thought it was not the brightest idea.
I know the new system is pretty much a work in progress,on both sides of the court but I believe an effort has to be made to get most out of Andrea offensively. Yes he will shoot better, yes he can get a couple of more taps-ins to get some production, but I believe a system that gets 20 points out of Andrea, Jo and Bosh is far more productive that one that gets 35 points out of Bosh and leaves everybody else a sparring role, . JT said it on an interviews, he takes on himself to involve more Andrea on the offense (it is not just about having plays called for you , it is also about getting the ball, having a ball in isolation, etc) so far I have not seen the results, but, to keep the Italian metaphor alive, Rome was not built in one day, the same can be said about a new offensive system.

by renato on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

mo cheeks was fired today...everyone seems to be getting in on the "fire your coach after a rough start" gig....its interesting.

by big d on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

My biggest disappointment with the Jersey game was the way the Raps let a dangerous type of foul take out their starting center, and did nothing to respond - like bounce Vince off the floor! Seemed like with JO out, the testicle count on the Raps went down to zero immediately.

Anyway, nice to have a victory where we are frustrating the other team for once. We just have to keep the points in the paint down! Let's see how the Hornets do against the new Raps defensive philosophy.

by EaseMyPain on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

If its in Wikepedia must be OK. Guess I'm getting old - losing touch with mainstream. RT - your comments are always well thought out - peace. Was just a quick thought that I think I typed too quick.

Whats going on with these revolving coaches? Mo Cheeks was a genius last year, Sam the year before. All of a sudden, a few experienced coaches are looking for work.

by Tinman on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

I have always said it and jjdynomite I totally agree its time we let VC motivate himself when he comes to Toronto, the guy always have a good game, not once have he stunk it up in Toronto and why because the fans give him something to play for....so lets just lay off the VC sucks chants because he never sucks when he comes back to his old home....Last night was a thing of beauty a coach finally figure out how to stop teams from out scoring us in the paint...Tomorrow is a big test for the Raps with CP3 but with the best fans in the nba the Raps will need every help they can get to pull this one out...but I know they will bring it tomorrow..the team has to win one for the captain (Bosh)for his birthday......Lets go team....Raps4Life

by Raps4Life on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

I might change my mind after sunday, but as of now, I'm hoping no trade happens on monday... after a couple years wondering in mitchell was the problem, I'm totally convinced of it at the moment...

by axl on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Doug Smith is hinting we are signing Jake Voskuhl; to be signed tomorrow...trading chip?

by Raptoronto on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Great game and great win, Excellent game by Jamario Moon and Joey Graham as well.

Regarding the Bosh versus West matchup,

Is West a good rebounder? Bosh is a below average one for his position. As a result, it may be tough for him to win this matchup.

I hate to bring any negativity to the comments, but if Jamario Moon doesn't show up defensively, then does Kapono become a liability. I mean, it's all fine and dandy to start Kapono if other defenders are compensating, but if they are not than that's bad news for a team that needs to play good defense to win.

by Rishi on Dec 13, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

With the Voskuhl signing I see a trade involving Hump, AP and maybe Adams that puts us back under the tax. I'd hate to see AP gone however business is business.

by Daniel on Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

No Chandler for NO and Parker and Hump back, should be a good one today. Love the West/Bosh match-up, always a good test for him.

I'm not even going to discuss Voskuhl - BC had him in Phoenix but I'd rather take a flyer on a number of other guys rather than the former UConn center.

by Franchise on Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Anybody else gets the feeling that a Posey signing for the MLE this summer could have been the missing piece to make the Raps a contending team? He will not always make 6 treys, but his agressiveness and constant activity all over the floor is something the current Raps squad just does not have.

by Sergi P on Dec 14, 2008 12:00 AM EST reply actions

Hi everyone. Ordinarily he was insane, but he had lucid moments when he was merely stupid.
I am from Bangladesh and learning to write in English, please tell me right I wrote the following sentence: "Moisture of duponttm tyvekÂ® organization adhesives."

Best regards :(, Kesia.

by Kesia on Sep 27, 2009 12:00 AM EDT reply actions