Tip In, Raptors' Post Game: Lethargic Accomplishment

I just looked up team rebounding differential per game. We're #30!!!!!!!! (LAST!!!!!!!!) This has to become the team's #1 priority, if we want to stop having these close games that we have to struggle to win every night. Deep-round playoff teams REBOUND AS A TEAM!!!!!!! And players who don't get sat down!!!!!!!!

I noticed last night that some of the Raptors wings are waiting around for Bosh and O'Neal to get boards, Jamario in particular. I think the problem is that last year Jamario relied on his athleticism to just out-jump guys and get the ball instead of putting a body on his man to stop him from getting the board. This year the lane is clogged and he can't do that, so he's just kind of standing around. I'm hoping that Toronto will start to adjust because they can't get killed on the boards by the Pistons on Wednesday and win.

I wonder if Jamario is not getting rebounds because Coach has asked him to leak out a little bit? I havn't seen the games, so I can't tell. Maybe someone else has noticed this?

Wow, last in the league at rebound differential! That is sad. If moon doesnt start rebounding (the reason he was so good in the starting lineup last year) he could find him self as the 12th man off the bench. Although if he keeps taking and hitting these jump shots, it might be ok to keep kapono on the bench for firepower

I think franchise and scott are correct and also really moon used to get a lot boards underneath that bosh and o'neal are now getting and moon maybe doesn't have the timing to get the long boards we never seem to get. His role has changed. He may be hurt more than we know still as well, sore achilles can linger forever.

Anyways, would have been a completely acceptable loss, and I think it's a monster win in terms of building character and clutchness because they were all dog-tired and you could tell.

How long b4 the raps starters get burnt out by the former coach of the year?

I love the heart and passion that this Raps squad possesses. They are fighters and no longer pushovers. I am not concerned with Bargs' offense last night. He only shot the ball 4 times and three of those (including the 3-pointer) rimmed out, meaning that his shots were high quality. If even half of those shots drop, he gets comfortable and becomes a factor. Bargs was able to recognize an off-shooting night and did everything else to deserve his PT. I'm so excited and I just can't hide it!!!

Vicious D
No mention of riding the starters all of the second half. No mention of a Bucks team making their run on an exhausted first unit.
No mention of O'Neal fouling out, Sam going small with an exhausted Chris Bosh as the only big man and the Bucks then killing us inside. I'm a big Sam fan but he nearly blew this one for us last night.
Bargnani with the doughnut?
Jose leading the way? Did Hump play? Ukic? How did we do on the boards?

yeah, with the paint clogged opponents are force into outside shots which leads to longer rebounds and a slightly different response from Moon and the guards once a shot is up.

Wow tinman, you're goin at VD pretty hard man.

Either way I liked how Sam rode his starters, they don't have a game till wednesday, ukic is a rookie so he's gonna have nights like yesterday. Raptors won ugly for the first time in awhile.

Mbah a boute is something I'll tell ya. Long, Quick, Fundamentally Sound. Good pick up by the bucks.

Tinman - Riding out the starter in the 2nd had to happen because the 2nd unit was just not getting anything done. I guess the argument could have been made that Sam could have replaced some of them once the Raptors were up by 10, but with everything so shaky, I understand why he might be reluctant. It's also why I mentioned that in the first game of the back to back, he should manage minutes better. In the 2nd game, it doesn't matter as much as the next game ain't until Wednesday. Like I said too, there's just way too much to cover about what wasn't done well, but the problem is, the Bucks were just that inept which let the Raptors win.

Re: Moon - I've not been a supporter of Moon, and last night was no different. Everyone is going to look at his stat line and say that he did fairly well to ignite the offense, which is all and good, but he's still leaking out too much on his own. I don't believe for one second that anyone is telling him to do that because he's only had two fast break points, AND the staff knows how bad the rebounding is right now. He also continues to cheat off his man and try and jump out to recover against jump shooter way too often, and don't even get me started on his lack of free throws or work in dribble penetration. Finally, boxing out is boxing out, even from the outside. And yeah, Bargs and O'Neal are clogging the lanes so he can't get to as many "easy" rebounds. but that's just the point. We saw inflated numbers last year because of that, and it's unacceptable to have him be at this level as our starting SF and not do intangible things that a SF HAS to be able to do

Tinman,
Although I agree with your comments re: VD, I think you have to cut the guy some slack given it was his second attempt.

Anyways, I must say that I was impressed with the way the raps responded in the dying minutes of the game. It's nice to see that Jose has the balls to take the clutch 3 when the team needs it. I think we are going to rely on him on for scoring in clutch situations throughout the year.

Also, I had the opportunity to watch a Raps/Bucks game from last year on Raptors TV yesterday, and the difference in terms of interior D is incredible. Anyone who thinks we should have gone with Gerald Wallace should be convinced by now that we absolutely made the best deal with O'Neal. While a quality slasher would have definitely improved the offense, we still would have been a pack of wimps on defense, and I think we are far better off with the added toughness.

Thanks for the game report guys, top notch as always and a shout out to Vicious D for his new role here at the HQ. I also should have said this a few days ago when all of the "Best Raptors Blog" stuff was going on, but nonetheless here goes: the HQ is the best Raps site not only because of its great articles/content, but because it is the best Raps community on the web, by far. We see it time in and time out, with the numerous regular posters and equally with the less regular posters who nonetheless are part of the ongoing dialogue on this site. We've become the Anti-RealGM, and mad props to Franchise and Howland for all their hard work in making it happen. Now, if we could only just shut up that BargsBust....just kidding.

As for the game, it was ugly. But for the first time in memory, we're actually winning ugly games. I mean, how often did we gut out wins on "off-nights" in the past few years? I can recall a grand total of zero. This leads to my bigger point, which has been mentioned previously: this Raps team has a totally different mentality than any we've seen before. With JO in town to share the leadership role and CB4's seemingly unending drive to continue to improve his game in every way, we just aren't the same team (in a good way). Now, as for individuals:

JO - I ain't hearing all the hater's. Yeah, he's imperfect, but if he continues to give us what we've gotten the last 3 games I'll be over the moon. Speaking of which....

Jamario - I am soooo over this Moon. I don't care what his stats say, he sucked last night and I want him on the bench. Gimme more Joey G!!!!

Bargs - I'm still drinking the Kool-Aid. He may not have scored in 2 of the 3 games, but the mere fact that this was the case and yet he actually helped us win speaks volumes. All the talk about a "new Andrea" are true, and while he's still a work in progress, at least we're seeing progress and it's exciting. He's just scratching the surface. Go Raps!

Good point, RaptorsAddict! I think that the AB haters need to take a look at how this guy is finding ways to contribute, even when he is having an off night offensively. Anyone stop to notice that Bargnani is tied for 5th in the NBA in blocked shots??? He has 7- one more than JO!!! Don't worry, the offense will come and when it does, look out.

All this criticism of Sam playing the starters extended minutes absolutely confounds me. I'm really starting to believe there are those out there that will search high and low just to find some bone to pick with Smitch.

Here's the strategy that just doesn't make sense to me: spare Bosh and Calderone's minutes, loose the game in the hopes that they will be fresh for the next game. WHAT?! That just doesn't make any sense. Sacrificing one game for the chance to win another? Stupid. These guys are professional atheletes, the oldest being O'Niel who is barely 30. WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU PROTECTING THEM FROM!!! If LeBron can ply 42 minutes so can Jose and Bosh every now and then.

Not to mention they don't play until WEDNESDAY!! Oh ya and not to mention: THEY ARE UNDEFEATED!!!! Ya that Sam Mitchelle is a terrible coach.

Hey guys, I agree. This site provides the best recaps out there.
Vicious D - Welcome to the big leagues. Take it as constructive...
Kinnon, I can see that point of view but there was a 5 minute period where both Bosh and Jose were exhausted. Three or four turnovers between them in that stretch. Sam had the opportunity to rest them and chose not too. I am a huge Sam supporter, just last night I disagree'd with some decisions.
Flying J - no not surprised. I believed he led the Italian league in blocks as a 20 year old. Bargs is coming around.

Does anyone know where I can get the "Let's Go Raptors" track by E.O.S?

Well I will have to go with the entirely optimistic perspective on last night, and the early season progress, as a whole. I should add that the tail end of Vicious D's remarks really reflected my thoughts. We are 3-0 here guys. I agree that there have been problems, some on-going (Moon's excessive minutes etc.), some developing (was the Philly game a fluke for Roko, Calderon's obvious exhaustion last night etc.), but we are still 3-0. I have been focusing on Jermaine's incredible influence in the paint, Parker's absolutely outstanding shooting and defence, the shots being created for Kapono, Andrea's improved defence, and even Sam's somewhat sound decision making. I mean, if we can pull out a win against the Pistons on Wednesday, then we should go 6-0 to start the season (ATL and Charlotte up after that). From there it will get pretty tough for a while, lots of important Eastern conference powerhouses (Boston, Philly, Orlando), but also 2 games against Miami (I should say that I am so not drinking to Heat Kool-aid, there is far too little to be a serious contender there). Let's see how we look 10 games in. I say if we are 8-2, without any injuries, all my expectations are met, or even passed. A 'W' is a 'W' gents, enjoy it while it lasts.

MAS
Just read your post. Go through the archives - you will not find a bigger supporter of Sam than the Tinman.
Just last night, two decisions hurt us.
1) riding the starters - early fourth quarter Jose and Bosh were gassed and Milwaukee went on their run.
2)JO fouled out during that early fourth quarter sequence and Sam went small and kept Moon in the game, leaving an exhaustive CB4 as the sole big in the game. Milwaukee killed us inside during previously stated run.

I am not on the "Fire Sam" bandwagon. Just two topics that were worthy of mentioning.

Let me add my own voice of encouragement to the HQ boys - keep it up.

I got a chance to watch last nights game and was pleasantly surprised at how we managed to gut this out.

Bargnani is clearly going to be fine because he is now playing legit defense (block party!) and we all know he can already score, so it is just a matter of time before he is doing both consistently.

Hey Bargsbust, how does my a** taste? ;-)

Calderon is playing at an all-star level, and last nights turnovers were often the result of his being played hard two nights running. He compensated for his TO's by leading the team in scoring - nice!

What else can we say about JO except that he was exactly what the Doctor ordered. He has freed Bosh up to do more damage offensively and take less of a beating by the other bigs.

Moon is clearly struggling with the changes to the teams play calling, but he also managed to contribute a HUGE bucket at crunch time to put the Raptors ahead for good.

Smitch, well I've never liked him, or his offensive sets, but this is definitely a team built for his strengths. If he can't advance far into the playoffs this year he deserves to be turfed for someone who can.

How can you not be jacked about this teams chances when they are playing like this on nights they should be losing?

One more thing about Moon. I understand about his shooting and making a big shot at the end, but I just don't think we can leave that kind of thing to chance. With a guy like Moon, yes, he'll make a big basket every once in a while, but that's just luck of the chance. The key is to get players that produce better more often than not.

And I definitely don't mind the criticism. I've had tons of experience with it over at HoopsAddict last year, and the important thing is to provoke discussion. For me personally, I didn't want to harp way too much on the team because it was coming of a back-to-back. The first game was where Sam had to manage minutes better but didn't, and it almost came back to bite us in the arse, and it's just something Sam has eventually got to get better at, especially with such an inconsistent bench.

Vicious D,

No offense, put your name is not that great. Could you post under your regular name. I get done reading your good post and then I see "Vicious D" and it just ruins it for me. That's my only complaint, otherwise great work

Thanks

uh moon is shooting 58% on twos and 62% on threes - second only to kapono probably - they've mostly been great looks as well. If they're going to leave him wide open and he's going to shoot that percentage, that's not chance, that's "all part of the plan"

Hey guys. You need to get the standing ticker sorted out. Would be nice to see Toronto going by over and over again at the top of the Eastern standings. And on the topic, how are we currently #2 in the Eastern conference when Atlanta is only 2-0 and we have not had any head to head matchups?

Axl - Tell you what, I'll admit I'm wrong about his shooting once we get about a week or two more under our belts and see if it's really all that consistent. Right now, there's just too much of a small sampling, and I still have the preseason lingering in the back of my mind.

"He knows me, I know him," Calderon said of Bosh. "When he is going to get trapped or something, he is going to look for me. I was ready for that jumper like five seconds before I received the pass."

That's just music to our ears. =)

Hey Sid Vicious:
Some love for the Moon Man. Vs the Bucks he had the rebound of the game, a Bucks miss with RAP's up 2 @.11secs & made 2 clutch FT's to go up by 4 and seal the game.
For the game, 15pts 3/6 key 3's & 4/4 FT's. He also held Jefferson to 3/13 & 9pts on defense.
For the 3 game season 10 FT attempts, 6 ast, 5 stls, 4blks & 10.7ppg.
What the "H" else do you guys
expext from our defensive SF.
I realize its only 3 games, but that applies to O'Neil, Bosh, et al.

yeah I'm with vicious on the moon thing. watching him chuck up 3's is not my idea of 'part of the plan'.

the proof for me?? there was one sequence where the ball was down in the post (with o'neal, i think) and it gets kicked out to the corner, swings around once, then again to moon, and jose is the next around the horn and he's yelling and clapping his hands for moon to keep it moving. but he doesn't. he shoots and makes it.

I'd rather jose take that shot 9 times out of 10. especially last night, when he was playing with a hot hand.

so for moon not to swing it means he ain't part of 'the plan' in my mind.

now, I like moon. always have. but he can't be on the bus that takes the raps to the next level. (as the starting SF)

Some great discussion going on here as usual...lots to talk about.

First off, like this quote from RaptorsAddict:

As for the game, it was ugly. But for the first time in memory, we're actually winning ugly games. I mean, how often did we gut out wins on "off-nights" in the past few years? I can recall a grand total of zero.

That paragraph is essentially what I said to Howland post-game. Last year when the team was fading into the playoffs, it was games like last night's against the Bucks that were always losses. Last night Toronto gutted out the win even when I was ready to write them off after Prince Luc's miracle shot that put Milwaukee up by 1 with seconds to play.

That makes two games now that the Raps have fought through to the finish for wins, a great sign going forward.

Not a great sign? - Yep the bench.

I was torn between being mad at Mitchell for not giving the starters a break in the third quarter, and proud of him for sticking to his guns and keeping the most effective guys on the court.

Bosh looked exausted at times in the fourth so perhaps you could have given Hump a few more minutes but outside of that, I'm not sure what his options were. JO got in foul trouble, Roko was ineffective running the show behind Jose, and Parker was still making J's in the final minutes so seemed to have his legs under him. And Kapono and Moon subbed in and out for each other a lot.

This is probably a blog post for tomorrow but Mitchell is going to need to get more from the bench. Maybe right now though the starters have enough to get things done, but Detroit on Wednesday should be a good test to see how far those five + Bargs and Kapono can go.

MAS, I think the point is that if he distributes the minutes around a bit more, the team won’t be so tired to close out the game and the win won’t be so hard fought. Also, there is the full 82 game season to think about. Just ask Pops. He closely monitors Duncan’s minutes for the same reason.

Late comment but the opening intro on Friday sucked! Might have been cool, but was anyone energized by that?

Promising sign: Anthony Parker playing well this early in the season. He usually takes several games to warm up.

Troubling sign: Moon making threes. Now he thinks he’s Dell Curry

Promising sign: Winning tough games and not giving up

Troubling sign: Barely getting by a 500 team, home to a team that will finish near the bottom in the western conference playing without a point guard and a team that will struggle to stay out of the basement in the eastern conference.

Promising sign: Holding Iguodala to 5/17 shooting; Corey Maggette to 4/15 and Richard Jefferson to 3/13 shooting in three straight games is very promising from a defensive standpoint.

Troubling sign: Playing three teams that couldn’t sink wide open buckets from the outside (5/20; 11/29 and 3/13) masks our defensive shortcomings. Most of these were WIDE OPEN. This will be our biggest weakness this year.

The rebounding issue has already been well covered.

First real test coming up on Wednesday. This should be interesting to watch as I think this is a bit of a changing of the guard situation here. Detroit is on the way out as a power house and we are on the way in. Having said that, Guess which team the Raptors have played worse against since they came into the league? Well that would be the Lakers at .208% (5 and 19), but in second place (and first in the eastern conference) is Detroit at .260% (13 and 37).

johnn19, moon may be our defensive SF, but it's not like he's a lock down defender for him to get away with being so crap on the offensive end.

the boy should have been walking around dribbling two balls, both hands, night and day, all summer long.

but I guess status quo was good enough for him.

Blame Mitchell for Moon's performance. The Raptor's have Calderon,Parker, Kopono and Bargs, all of them can outshoot Moon with their eyes closed. Mitchell needs to get this thru to Moon. They need his 3 point shooting like a hole in the head. Rebounding and defense, garbage baskets, that should be his game. He had all summer to muscle up so he could fight it out on the baords,like Barg's did. He could have improved his ball handling so he could take it to the basket,make use of his jumping ability & quickness. Could of and should of. I like Moon but he could be so much better for us.

Vicous D, I still am unable to follow your argument. You said: "The first game was where Sam had to manage minutes better but didn't, and it almost came back to bite us in the arse, and it's just something Sam has eventually got to get better at, especially with such an inconsistent bench."
So Sam has to manage minutes better to get more time for the inconsistent bench? I know I'm beating a dead horse here but please explain this logic. You admit the bench has been inconsistant (we all knew coming into this season that this teams depth was questionable at best) so you're suggesting our good, consistent players should play less?! Look, I understand that this is a marathon of a season, especially considering we hope this team goes deep into the playoffs. I get that. But Sam's objective as head coach is to WIN GAMES. Rounding out the bench with quality player is Colangelo's job.
I'll take a tired Bosh and Calderone down the stretch over Hump and Roko any day of the week.

Franchise your post is spot on: "...I'm not sure what his options were. JO got in foul trouble, Roko was ineffective running the show behind Jose, and Parker was still making J's in the final minutes so seemed to have his legs under him. And Kapono and Moon subbed in and out for each other a lot."
Exactly, Sam's options are limited and as such he has to ride his best horses.
That being said this argument is just irrelevant as THEY WON THE GAME and we are undefeated.

Wow, lots to talk here.

RapsAddict - Totally agree, Franchise and Howland are awesome, they started this puppy, but the commenters are just as good to read. I always go back to catch up on all the comments before I read the next post. I switched over here from Carefoot's blog (I think along with several others), and know that this site is the benchmark.

Vicious D - We are going to be tough on you here, with great power comes great responsibility. I'm jealous you even got the gig! You writing here is like seeing someone else put your kids to bed - it'll take some time to get our trust/respect. And no, the Vicious D handle ain't doing you any favors!

Bargs - He ain't hurting us. Even if he isn't scoring like we all expect (yet), he is still helping us win. If anything, the fact that he is helping us win even without scoring is all the more amazing.

Moon - With the way Joey is playing, I don't know what Moon brings to the table that Joey doesn't. In years past I could understand why Smitch was so hard on the inconsistent one, but this year I still think JG has outplayed Moon AND still has much more upside.

O'Neal - I love him.

CB4 - MVP candidate?

Jose - All Star? Most improved candidate?

Smitch - I hate him, always have. But he is 3-0 and I am a couch potato. Even if he should have played the bench more (which I think he should have), they have plenty of days to rest now and a win is a win is a win!

"First off, like this quote from RaptorsAddict:

As for the game, it was ugly. But for the first time in memory, we're actually winning ugly games. I mean, how often did we gut out wins on "off-nights" in the past few years? I can recall a grand total of zero.

That paragraph is essentially what I said to Howland post-game. Last year when the team was fading into the playoffs, it was games like last night's against the Bucks that were always losses. Last night Toronto gutted out the win even when I was ready to write them off after Prince Luc's miracle shot that put Milwaukee up by 1 with seconds to play."

Franchise and Rapsaddict - I have to say I thought the 06/07 team (the garbo year I call it) had A LOT of these gutsy wins. I remember thinking at that time that I'd never seen the raps pull those out before and that Bosh had suddenly become a clutch player plus ford won us a couple, so did bargs one in portland and parker and caldy stepped up in tight games when the previous (pre-BC) raps would have folded.

That really was a special year.

VD - On moon, definitely going to be holding my breath when moon shoots, but it's different when he's supposed to be shooting not just jacking like last year when he would shoot and there would be better guys open, not the case so far imo.

MAS - Sorry if I wasn't making it clear. I was following up on a train of thought that Sam needed to manage the minutes better in the GS game, when his subs were doing an adequate job. I have no problem with how he handled the Bucks, but I think if he managed things better against GS, they would have had some better energy. Specifically, I'm looking at Bargnani and using Graham more in the GS game. I've never said that he mismanaged minutes in this Bucks game because I too believe that starters had to play, especially with the next game coming on Wed. Sorry if I wasn't being clear. But it's up to the coach to look at the bigger picture, and like I said in my preview of the Warriors game, I was looking to see if he's improved in that area, and I'm not sure yet.

As for the name, it's been a nickname of mine for a while, given to a korean friend. Since Franchise and Howland are all doing their thing under aliases, I'm following suit :p Yep, it'll take time, but like I said, I'm used to this coming from Hoops Addict. In time, I hope my analysis will play itself out.

Johnn19, SFs REBOUND! Moon isn't! O'Neal, Bosh & Bargnani are in there trying. He has to help. Why? Because he's the next best rebounder, & we're last in the NBA! SGs aren't supposed to rebound more than SFs!!

PGs aren't supposed to rebound more than SFs, either!!

Blowin' up the comments section!

Just a quick note to readers. If you're having trouble getting to the site by typing in raptorshq, it's because we're doing some work on the back end. Things will be fixed by morning so for now just type in hooplife dot ca slash raptorshq.

Zona said: Troubling sign: Moon making threes. Now he thinks he’s Dell Curry

Yeah, I always hate it when a guy starts making threes. Seriously, WTF? He saved our bacon with that three with time running down in the fourth, and you want to crap on him for thinking he's Dell Curry. You probably yell at the microwave to hurry up.

Axl said - I have to say I thought the 06/07 team (the garbo year I call it) had A LOT of these gutsy wins.

That's a good point Axl, Garbo did provide a lot of intangibles that helped us win. I remember noticing how much we missed him at times last year. Here's hoping JO continues to be a Garbo-esque upgrade.

I can't believe that no one has brought up the fact that we aren't grabing rebounds because of our "ZONE DEFENSE". The Raptors look totally LOST when they get into their defensive sets. They are always out of position to rebound. In the Zone defense, they switch too quickly and create bad matchups (Calderon guarding Maggette?). And, to top it off Sam is playing our starters like Brendan Malone use to play Mighty Mouse. "FOR GOD SAKES, GO TO A MAN-TO-MAN DEFENSE MITCHELL... THIS AIN'T COLLEGE!

MAS, I have got to agree with Tinman. Sam's decision to not give Calderon and Bosh a break almost cost them the game because Bosh and Calderon were fatigued and started making mental errors (as evidenced by Calderon's turnovers in the 4th quarter). There was ample opportunity to sit Calderon or Bosh for 2-3 minutes at the beginning of the 4th quarter when the Raptors were up by 10.

On the other hand, Mitchell does deserve credit for the technical foul he got which ignited his team's defense in the 3rd quarter.

what is Moon doing to get so open that Kapono is not?

i think when bosh, JO, calderon and parker on the floor every defense in the NBA is goign to look at the possesion as a win if moon is taking a three. kapono, on the other hand, is a little better shooter than moon and therefore teams tend to worry a bit more about kapono shooting threes

Re: Why is Moon so open v. Kapono,

Bang on Money. It's not that Kapono is a little better shooter than Jamario. He's leaps-and-bounds better.

Stats:
Jamario Moon 3pt% (33%) last year
Jason Kapono 3pt% (47%) career with (48%) last year.

Waayyy better. Opposing teams BETTER find him.

Barley got the win. But a win is a win. What I hated to watch was the poor offensive play calls. Enough with the high pick and roll already. Could we run some plays for Kapono - double screen? Very stagnet on offensive. Bucks were feeding on the pick and roll.

you can find the Let's Go raptors track at

www.eosmovement.com