Scouting the Competition – New York Knicks

by RaptorsHQ - Archives on Sep 17, 2007 12:00 AM EDT in Feature Stories

So all those who picked Russia to win the tournament raise your hand.

Yup, that’s what I thought.

In a stunning upset the Russian squad led my none other than Andrei Kirilenko beat the Spanish powerhouse 60-59 when Pau Gasol couldn’t get the games final shot to drop.

Make no mistake, this is a huge event in European basketball circles and the world is taking note. If you read Chris Sheridan’s piece on ESPN you get a sense of how shocking this upset really is. The Russia team, in a story of David and Goliath, came away with it’s first Euoleague title in 22 years beating the Spanish squad in Spain. The loss for the Spanish squad must feel very similar to what the Mavs felt when they lost to Miami two years back. A huge sense of disappointment and a job left unfinished. Hopefully Calderon and Garbo look to take out their frustration and disappointment on the court this season.

For Raps fans the tournament was a solid one and has to be looked at as a positive experience. Perhaps the best thing was that Garbo managed to lace them up, did not re-injure himself and showed that he is ready to get back to playing. In fact Sam Mitchell has to love the fact that all of the Raps participants in this tournament are already in game shape. Sure some guys played better than others but all the guys should come to camp in top conditioning.

One this is for sure, the Olympics will be very entertaining and should produce one of the best international tournaments of all time.
Now, on to the Knicks.

When we looked at the Celtics, Nets the moral of the story is really that there is no better time than the present. For the 76ers they are building for the future. For the Knicks? This summer Isiah knew he was on the hot seat and as a result has decided to go "All-In".

The thing is Thomas didn’t really have a choice when he decided to bring another problem child into the locker-room (let alone NYC). Why? Randolph produces. The reality of the situation is that the Knicks have been the laughing stock of the league for a number of years now and the "mecca" of basketball has slowly fallen off the map. Dealing with heavy criticism, and even a law-suit, Thomas need to make a bold move and a bold move it is. The money, of course, is really of no issue. Thomas has eagerly spent James Dolan’s cash for years clearly adhering to the principles of the Yankees and Red Sox…."A championship is just another dollar away."

Unfortunately for Mr. Dolan this isn’t baseball.
Unlike "America’s Game", winning basketball depends more on chemistry and character than the number of dollars spent. Undoubtedly money matters (just ask Charlotte Bobcats fans), but team chemistry and an ability to play together means more on the court than on the baseball diamond. Baseball, at its root, is a game of numbers and although basketball has it’s fair share of stat junkies (your truly included) sometimes the numbers just don’t add up.

Let’s throw some stats out there:

PG: 16.4 ppg, 2.9 rpg, 5.4 apg
SG: 17.6 ppg, 3.2 rpg, 4.4 apg
SF: 13 ppg, 7.2 rpg, 2.2 apg
PF: 23.6 ppg, 10.10 rpg, 2.2apg
C: 19.5 ppg, 7.0 rpg, .576fg%

On paper there may be no better looking team in the NBA. A point guard that can score and shares the ball (albeit not a league leader). A shooting guard that can score and does a bit of everything. A SF that contributes both offensively and on the glass. Last but not least, a very strong font-court that features a consistent double-double threat at the PF position and a centre who is more than serviceable on the offensive end, shoots a high percentage and is a decent rebounder (although the rebounding numbers leave a little to be desired). Seems like a solid base….

On top of the numbers one thing the Knicks do have in their favour this year is a nice bench with a variety of skills. Jones and Robinson can bring some offensive spark, Jeffries can help on the defensive end, Lee and Balkman are great energy guys who can really hustle and rebound, Chandler, Nichols, Collins and Morris are nice young players and Jerome James, should the Knicks ever find themselves in a hot-dog eating contest against Joey Chestnut or Takeru Kobayashi will gladly step-up. Perhaps the biggest flaw on this team from a skill standpoint is lack of shooting, but from an overall standpoint the biggest issue will likely be chemistry and finding an identity. The biggest question for NY entering the season is whether the sum total of the above will result in more wins that losses.

Once you add the names Marbury, Crawford, Richardson, Randolph and Curry to the stats above the answer almost automatically becomes "doubtful". This cast of characters is something a Broadway director would love to have in producing the next great drama. Marbury seems more concerned about playing Robin Hood with his new shoe line and planning his "second career" in Europe than figuring out how to win. Nate Robinson despite having a solid summer league needs to kick the small man syndrome and learn to play under control before concerning himself with who he has left to dunk on. David Lee must be planning his exodus after playing his heart out only to see Thomas bring in someone to replace him in the starting line-up and no-one has seen Eddy Curry since Pizza Hut introduced it’s on-line ordering system.

In all seriousness it’s not all bad for the Knicks and there’s no telling what could happen. With Thomas roaming the sidelines with so much at stake he has no option other than to find a way to maximize the talent he has and to create a system where everyone is happy (and no that system cannot involve adding a second ball to the game play). He needs to find something that each player can buy into. The Knicks have to start winning. The heat is on.

Even if the team doesn’t gel Knicks fans have to like what Thomas has recently done in the draft. True to form Thomas has done an above average job on draft night (despite initial reactions) and has started to fill the roster with young and talented, albeit lesser known players, many of them listed above. None of them have "superstar" written on them but they have really helped deepen the bench. Of course it is not like the Knicks roster is all that old either as most of their core players are all under the age of 27.

Is this the man to lead the Knicks?

After the draft we talked about the addition of Zack Randolph and how this works out is anyone’s guess. There’s no denying him the individual success in the Western Conference and it is plausible that Zack has career numbers in the big apple. I have no doubt he will make his presence felt in the Atlantic. His "presence" may be felt more on CB4’s body than anywhere else. Randolph is a bruiser and although the hype as of late has been on the upcoming Garnett-Bosh match-ups, it is this one that interests me the most. Bosh and KG have very similar skills sets but it is against the bigger, tougher players that Bosh needs to prove himself. From a sheer size standpoint the front-court of Curry and Randolph out-bodies and out-weighs Bargs and Bosh by a sizeable amount. No it is not heavyweight boxing, but the Raps front-court is going to have their hands full and will have to show a new and higher level of toughness in order to be successful this season.

The biggest advantage the Raps have over the Knicks is chemistry. Although less dollars are being spent by MLSE than Cablevision it’s a safe bet that things will work out better for the more frugal of the two. Colangelo has taken the time to "construct" a team. Thomas, on the flip side, has generally tried to fit a square peg into a round hole. I for one don’t think that victories against the Knicks this season will be easy. The Raps can’t just bring a knife to a gun fight. The Knicks are going to play tough and throw their weight around. The Raps are going to need to respond in kind.

The Knicks are really a wild card. Talent wise they could and should make the playoffs. Fighting for the eight spot seems a little more realistic. If they can piece it together there could be another team in the Atlantic trying to grab the Raps crown….but as a betting man I’d say they end up in a similar position as the 76ers by the end of the year – on the outside looking in.

HOWLAND

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Comments

1. Long post coming but I haven't written in a while. H&F, your captions alongside the photos (i.e. "Is this the man to lead the Knicks" under Z-Bo) comes out in like 2-pt font. I think you need to tweak your CSS.

2. Speaking of Randolph, the Knicks are a true wild card, kind of like the Raps were last season. Their front court is intimidating size- and offensive skill-wise but everybody has to remember that their defense is matador-worthy. Curry is a poor rebounder and shotblocker; Randolph, while rebounding well, is also a poor shotblocker, and both are turnover machines at over 3 TO/G each. Yuck.

3. It's too bad we North Americans were so far removed from EuroBasket in terms of television -- thank the lord for the Internet. And it's all the more apparent that even with Nash, Team Canada has a snowball's chance in hell of making the Top 2 next summer to qualify for the Olympics. With even teams like France going home, Canada will be up against Slovenia, Germany, Croatia and Greece and will probably get their black jerseys handed to them. Not to mention, way better coaching than Rautins -- Russia smartly hired David Blatt, who has won all over Europe and assistant-managed Parker and Baston to destroy all comers at Maccabi Tel Aviv. Well, we Raptors fans can always root for Spain next summer.

4. About Spain, some nice quotes from scouts on ESPN.com about our Raptor boys prior to the final: http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/olybb/columns/story?columnist=sheridan_chris&page=EuroScoutingReport

Who is your MVP of the tournament thus far?

Ronzone: [Jose] Calderon, because I think they're going to win it, and his confidence level has even gotten better since the last NBA season. The guy's even looking to shoot 3s now; the guys are looking at him to lead; and if they lose him, they're a different team.

Quinter: Anybody on Spain, but [Jorge] Garbajosa, every time he comes in a game, he's tremendous. He's an emotional leader for them as well as a leader on the court scoring and shooting, and inspirational in that he came come back [from injury] in so short of a time. So he's right up there on my list. Maybe he's not the highest scorer, but I think overall that would have to be the guy I'd pick at this point.

5. Finally, interesting news from Jose's aspect; the Mavs just signed Devin Harris for 5 years and $42 million, and he's really not that good. Cuban doesn't care going over the cap, but since Harris is almost getting TJ money, what's Jose worth? Will the Raps pay $16+ million a year for two point guards? Of course, Starbury makes $20 million a year and he hasn't done anything except earn the hatred of Madison Square Garden interns.

by jjdynomite on Sep 17, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

The Knicks truly are a wild card this season. I think they can finish anywhere from first to last and your guess is as good as mine. Major changes to both them and the Celts am curious to see how they work out.
Sorry to here Spain lost but happy for Russia - sounds like they played a solid tournament.
Tell Jorge to get some rest.

by Tinman on Sep 17, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

On the euro final: well, the upset is indeed huge, but i don't think you should read as much into it as Sheridan does. Please remember this is a single-game championship final decided in a split second, so I totally disagree with many things he says. You can't say this spanish team was lacking respect for Russia, if you've been following Spain just barely you must know the spanish players and staff would never do that mistake. It's an easy thing to say that they folded under pressure with the missed free throws and all, but please realize there were huge the day before (27/28 FT) against Greece in a game that was as tough and pressure-filled as the final or more. Also let us not underrate Russia's performance which has been huge and has always looked like one of the favorites alongside Lithuania and Spain.

I also wouldn't compare this to the Dallas-Mavs playoff series, the big difference being that most spanish fans and media are, like i said in a comment in yesterday's post, extremely thankful to the players in spite of the loss. It is a disappointment to lose the finals at home, but none of us feels like the players have let us down or something, it was a very bad loss but we understand in one single game in this sport just about anything can happen, now let's move on and hope for the best next time.

As for the Raptors, I think overall the experience has been very positive both for Jose and Garbo. Jose has had an outstanding shooting performance (21/34 on 2p and specially 19/38 on 3p!!!) and has shown signs of becoming more of a leader type of guy, these two facts alone mean a very significant development for Calderon (although i would have liked for him to shoot more in the final). Garbo has looked his usual self which is the biggest positive thing one can say, his ankle did not give him any trouble and emotionally he must have had a huge confidence boost in spite of the final loss, because he has been given a lot of love by all the fans and media and has become a kind of a symbol and an silent leader. I couldn't agree more with the comments jjdynomite is quoting in 4 regarding Calderon and him.

So anyway, now after the Eurobasket craze we're back to our regular programming where you guys will update me on the games being played and i'll be happy if i can catch one every week :-)

PD: As for the Knicks, this team looks like a total mystery to me. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up as the worst team in the East, neither would amaze me to see them reach the Eastern conference finals. With such a talented but insanely crazy collection of players (and coach), just about anything can happen.

by Sergi P on Sep 17, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Tinman, I saw your post about the knicks right after posting mine thoughts, great minds think alike i guess! :-)

by Sergi P on Sep 17, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Just a quick note... "Jose has had an outstanding shooting performance (21/34 on 2p and specially 19/38 on 3p!!!)" - Sergi P. Jose shot awesome percentages, to be sure, but he still shot more 3s than other FGs. Doesn't that frighten anybody? He may become overconfident in his long range bombing, and let us remember that the NBA 3-pt line is a tad further out than the Euro's.

Did Jose shoot many NBA-distance 3s, Sergi? Or was he just behind the Euro line? If most of those 3s were NBA-range bombs, well, I'll feel better about him favouring the trey.

by Frank on Sep 17, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I don't think the Knicks are that big a question mark. Even though I can't stand Zeek, I can't help but predict better results for this team.

1. Addition by subtraction. Stevie "me" Francis. I think this helps both Marbury and Crawford.

2. The Knicks were pretty much a .500 team with the emergence of Curry half way through the season, until they lost Jamaal Crawford and then David Lee for a stretch.

3. I think the return of Allen Houston will actually help with the leadership of this team.

4. Zach Randolph can only help even with his off court shinanegans.

by ustation on Sep 17, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I for one am not worried about Jose in the least. I expect him to raise his game another notch from last year and look forward to the TJ/ Jose debate to restart. Will be interesting to see BC's move when its time to resign Jose and what Jose plans are. Teams will make a run for him if he is available.

by Tinman on Sep 17, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Frank: Yeah the distance is shorter and he only took a few from the NBA 3p distance. But still, I want to highlight it because normally even in intl' play he has been a quite below 40% 3p shooter, so going from there to 50% shows a huge improvement. Also the way he took them, most of them were not easy open looks, but rather average to difficult shots with one guy guarding him normally (the kind you only take if you really do trust your shooting). Of course this won't translate to close to an 50% shooting from the NBA 3p line, but i am convinced next season we'll see a nice improvement from hist last year percentage.

by Sergi P on Sep 17, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Hey guys,

Long time since I last posted, but I just wanted to give many of you a heads up regarding Raps TV. If you are a Rogers Digital VIP subscriber, you now get Raps and Leafs TV free with your subscription. I just found out about it today. I called to re-up for this coming season and they notified me that it was now free, and it's permanent, not just a promotion.

by Assistant GM on Sep 17, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

AGM -found out about that recently too. Smart move, I bet pushed by BC. Probably going to gain a lot of new raptor fans this year.

Now if only Rogers would let you sign up for NBA League Pass without paying for the entire sports pack.

by axl on Sep 17, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Nice breakdown Howland, especially for a cat like me who doesn't pay attention at this time to the 'OTHER' teams.

This is really going to be an interesting year. The Competion level should be very high.

I am really glad and excited that Rasho got bronze, if I'm not correct. Lituania is in the Olympics and they felt cheated by the Schedule of this tourney and felt they could've beat Russia but the game times allowed 2 days rest for Russia and 1 for Lithu........please fill in the blanks for me fellas.

Let's give this guy (Rasho) some cred, for real! Please somebody, break him down for this tournament with the stats and insites, and speak about how much other centers or centres have been ACTIVE this summer.

This has got to be something positve for our Center guy....no?

peace

by Grounded on Sep 17, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

"The biggest advantage the Raps have over the Knicks is chemistry. Although less dollars are being spent by MLSE than Cablevision it’s a safe bet that things will work out better for the more frugal of the two. Colangelo has taken the time to "construct" a team. Thomas, on the flip side, has generally tried to fit a square peg into a round hole. I for one don’t think that victories against the Knicks this season will be easy. The Raps can’t just bring a knife to a gun fight. The Knicks are going to play tough and throw their weight around. The Raps are going to need to respond in kind."

Of course we could nail open shot after open shot, and our front court could run their out of the building.

In order to run them out of the building, we would need some fast breaks, and as an extension of that, some defensive rebounds. Which may prove to be difficult.

It does not seem that either team is particularly well positioned to match up with he other one.

by TJ Cainp on Sep 17, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Goes to show u what I know about Euroball. I don't know why I thought Rasho was on Lithuania.

None the less, some pretty good feedback from Gherdani about Jose and Rasho. He admitted to a poor showing by Andrea and said it was good to take the harsh criticism in order to strive forward..

peace

by Grounded on Sep 18, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Wouldn't Kirilenko look good at the 3 for the Raps?

Now that he is available, who can we give up to get him? What about Rasho and Joey?

by Erezona on Sep 19, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Erezona, AK47 would look great for all the amazing D he would bring to the Raps (if he stays healthy), but Joey ($1.6 million) and Rasho ($7.84 million) are not even within 30% of Kirilenko's $13 million salary, let alone 15%. So more players would need to be thrown in, probably other 2/3s like Parker or Delfino since that's the Jazz's weak spot.

But beyond that, there have been rumours of Marion for Kirilenko (for the cap room, and he's an excellent replacement player for at least next season until he can opt out). I doubt O'Conner and Sloan are suckers like BabCOCK to take the Raptors detritus when there are more equitable offers on the table.

But I'd like to think BC is working the phones. If it goes through maybe one of The Star columnists can write an article on the "White Raps" like they did for the "White Jays" a little while back.

by jjdynomite on Sep 19, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Re: Kirilenko as Raptor

He'd be a simply awesome fit, but I just can't see it happening. He makes too much money, we don't have enough quality players to offer in return, and there are certainly going to be more enticing offers for his services from other teams than what the Raps can put together.

Which sucks - cuz if Kirilenko were a Raptor we'd be a serious threat to win it all (assuming of course there isn't an equally serious subtraction required to get him, i.e. Bosh a for Kirilenko brings us Kirilenko but at too high a cost).

by Bedhead on Sep 19, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Fun Kirilenko fact;

He's registered at least 5 or more in 5 different categories; pts, rebounds, blocks, steals, and assits - 5 times.

And has a nickname better reflected a players abilities than 'AK-47' does for Kirilenko? The AK is an all purpose weapon that goes everywhere, is effective under just about any condition, is easy to repair, durable, under-rated and of course, lethal.

by Bedhead on Sep 19, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I used the ESPN trade-tracker to try and make a swap with the Raps work.

The only deal that I could make work was;

To the Raptors:
Fesenko
Kirilenko

To the Jazz:
Ford
Rasho
Graham

Would anyone here make that deal? Would you need a 1st as part of it (I probably would).

by Bedhead on Sep 19, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Not gonna happen.

by Tinman on Sep 19, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Bedhead

I think I would make that trade gut don't think Jazz would even think about it.

by Davl on Sep 19, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Yeah, Bedhead, the Jazz are trying to get cap room for 2008 so they can re-up Deron Williams for the rookie max. So they'd probably laugh at taking on Ford, as that would give them two starting-caliber PGs at around $22 million per.

If only we had more competent 2/3's to offer them, but we don't, unless BC hires a nuclear physicist who somehow fuses Joey G's muscle, Parker's court savvy, Kapono's shot and Delfino's rebounding (per minute) together. And then we'd end up with... Shawn Marion, whom the Jazz may well get anyway if the Suns take that risk (given AK's injury history). Sigh.

by jjdynomite on Sep 20, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions