Scouting the Competition - Boston Celtics

Howland,
Well put. I agree with everything you said. I believe unless they suffer significant injuries, the Celtics will win the Divisions, and have a legit shot at the finals.

3 players who could never consistently elevate their teams may still suffer major leadership problems.

We can hope, anyways. They will always battle hard, but raptors are certain to be exposed or confirmed this year.

I totally disagree with you, I believe the Celtics will do a little better than last year but they will not win the division and be in the finals, no one is going to tell me they will beat out Detroit, New Jersey, and Toronto NO WAY!! I was listening to ESPN and they totally do not believe they will beat out these 3 teams, they way they put it these 3 teams are the top 3 in the eastern conference.

Last time I checked Doc Rivers was still the coach of the Celtics, so I'm really not too worried about the Celtics. At best I think they've vaulted themselves into the same pantheon as New Jersey - three great players and nobody behind them. That means you're essentially one injury away from mediocrity. And New Jersey, at least, has Lawrence Frank at the helm.

Before you annoint Boston as NBA Champs lets see them win some games first, as they have a long way to go from 24 wins, to conference or division winners.

Yes they have 3 very good players, but they are not proven winners, nor is their coach.

I meant to say that they will win the Atlantic Division, and have a legit shot at making the Finals. KG made it to the Western conference finals when he had support. That support was not as good as Allen + Pierce either.

I love the Raptors but expect them to finish third in the Atlantic behind Boston and New Jersey this year. I think that the Raptors will win the Division the following year though, due to development and hopefully bringing in talent with Rasho's then expiring contract.

I've been reading all the stuff people are writing just about everywhere about how they have to do all this work to be good, etc... Here's the thing: Boston now has three players that are used to being doubled, and still play exceptionally well. Imagine when teams fall into a double on KG and he passes out to a wide open Pierce or Allen.

I mean seriously, look at what you have in terms of personality:
- All three are willing to share the ball.
- All three have rarely had any help.
- All three are team oriented players.
- All three are easily top 10 in their positions, two of them probably top 5.

The only real weaknesses on that team are stamina and durability.

That's what will kill them. If they stay healthy (big if) I fully expect them to be a near-instant juggernaut in the east. I would not be surprised if by mid-season you saw Boston and Dallas competing for the longest win streaks.

Not only that, but (again, barring injuries) I expect Boston to be #1 or #2 in the East, and they will definitely be our entry in the NBA Finals next year. All of those guys have good playoff experience, and I don't think it will take much to oust the best of the east.

Personally, I don't think we'll be 10-0 vs KG in our last 10 meetings by the end of the year. It will probably be 7-3 or 6-4.

The advantage we have is that this will be a great test of our depth and will put way more pressure on the starters. We have divisional opponents that are now very tough. I expect us to fail to defend our division championship, but when we do nobody will be looking back and going "well by all rights they should've won" because I think we're going to see NJ and Boston just break away from us provided they stay healthy. This is a good thing on the basis that tougher opponents will push our guys to try harder, and 3-4 years down the line we could become serious battle-hardened and experienced contenders.

I don't think most raps fans are giving the competition their due. The raps made some interesting little moves last season and turned things aropund totally, even tied their best franchise win total. The celts have totally made over their roster with superstars, I think it is fair to say they will be much, much better. And stop saying they just have three all-stars like NJ has three. The all stars in Boston have complimentary skills, where NJ's big 3 are all perimeter guys.

I think too many people are forgetting about CHicago - that team is sick. I would trade the raps roster for that one straight up, and there aren't any other teams I would say that about. Though their cap situation is going to be messy in a couple of years.

Giving credit to other teams doesn't make you any less of a Raps fan. I really like the way the East is shaping up, I can't wait to see how our young raps continue to develop.

I think Deroit is the only team in the east with a lock on playoff spot.

Many teams have upgraded but many teams have not addressed their needs.

Toronto have not addressed defence and rebounding Gaby's ankle He could not be the same player. They have more experience but is that enough.Bosh will have more competition in the east

NJ getting older
Miami getting older
Cleveland no upgrades their
Bucks less injuries could surprise
76'ers not playoff team
NY upgraded down low but questions around that position and how they will gell

The list goes on and I feel that the playoff race will be great and no team can do a start like Toronto did last year and expece success.

Injuries and prolonged slumps will not be easy to overcome.

2-8th spots wide open and any team that is expected to make playoff can miss

Looking forward to the season

PS

I don't think much of Doc's coaching either, but with THOSE guys out there... All he has to do is Cito Gaston these boys, keep them happy and don't get in their way.

Why is Rivers’s coaching skills dismissed to the degree that it is? He’s not considered a great strategy coach but neither is Mitchell and look at his results. I seem to recall a certain Rap coach voted as the worst in the NBA. Rivers is a players’s coach and I have no doubt with a more talented team, he will motivate his team to leave it on the floor just like he did in Orlando.
Although Boston may not make it to the NBA finals, weak coaching will not be the major reason.

HOWLAND said:
"Sure is quiet in Raptorland where the biggest news as of late has been the upcoming construction to the west side of the ACC."

What's not to love about an indepth look at a Toronto-Boston matchup. But I'm not sure it's true there's nothing going on. I myself am kinda stuck in Hinterlandia Raps-wise, no access really. But I found these morsels:

http://www.javno.com/en/sports/clanak.php?id=66867

http://www.javno.com/en/sports/clanak.php?id=68384

What are the implications for Roko's development if he ends up in Moscow? How significant are his and his opponent Bargs contributions to their respective national teams this summer? And what about our Spaniards? Can anyone find video of this stuff or more complete accounts (box scores)?

HQ, help those crazy few of us who are starving for anything dino related. There are more than a few truffles out there if only your intrepid and connected blog-squad bring out the pig and go hunting!

Very good article,

This season is looking like it has the potential to be the most exciting in Raps history. The Raptors could very well take a huge step forward this coming season, or like some have mentioned be exposed.. Not gonna happen.
Toronto can definetly be fighting with Chicago and Cleveland for the top seed in the East. Cleveland had a brutal finals but this arguement LeBron had no support is being blown way out of proportion, they need to make changes with their offense but still a good team with a solid line-up.
The comparisons between raps and celtic reserves was a stretch. Bosh and Andrea will cause Boston huge problems inside and we have enough depth on the wings to limit Allen and Pierce and try and force KG to beat us. I like Rondos game but no way he can deal with Ford who is more talented and still maturing.
Boston and New Jersey will no doubt be solid and it will be tight all year.Then there's Miami, Detriot, Washington looking to stay in the playoff picture as well... its gonna be an intense year watching who falls and who can sneak in!

It seems that some Raps fan has written them off and are showing up Boston, they did the same thing last year, but I look at it this way may the best team take the Atlantic division, I have a lot of faith in Toronto.

True that. I have faith in the roster T.O has. As a fan of this team you can only expect success until this group led by Colangelo shows us something else. All things considered they had a solid year. The Raps are deeep no question; but i really think some poeple underestimate our top players and how good they can be right now. Thats including AP, who can come into the season carrying his momentum and swagger we saw from him in the playoffs

I see how Kap-One and Triano have made the selects, i guess it is nice to have family in high places. The experience can only help, just as it helps Bosh to play on team USA senior nats. Not that they aren't deserving, I think BC pulls th strings everywhere and anywhere he can!

I guess I'm not as enamoured of the new trio in Boston as everyone else, but I found this particularly hard to swallow;

"In this writers opinion this is the best trio in the NBA."

Ok, I know I'm a contrarian sometimes, but seriously. Better than...;

Nash, Marion, Stoudemire?

Duncan, Parker, Ginobli?

Bryant, Odom, someone with a heartbeat?

Kidd, Carter, Jefferson?

Billups, Wallace, Hamilton (or Prince)?

For sure, I think the GAP unit is comparable to many of these, but BETTER? No chance.

Keep in mind too that the Celtics have the worst 4->12, with only Rondo being a legit starter - and he's a weak one at that, and I think you have a team that will be in tough to win 45.

I'm expecting some sort of breakdown around X-mas (probably precipitated by an injury to Allen) that leads to Rivers kissing the Blarney stone good-bye, and Ainge sitting in the ejection seat until the Celtics make the playoffs, and will be summarily fired into the stratosphere if they miss.

BedHead:

Here is why I think it is (of course no way to tell until they play together) the best trio:

Suns: Marion does not want to be in the background anymore and frankly he is not half the player he is if he is anywhere else.

Spurs: Garnett is the one guy who can more or less shut down Duncan (the reason why the Suns tried to get him) and don't tell me the Truth or Allen are not the player Ginobili is.

Lakers: That must be a typo right?

Nets: Hmmm....yeah maybe when Carter gets that heartbeat you are referring to.

Pistons: From a pure talent standpoint there is really no contest. Besides the Pistons are loosing their swagger.

Don't get me wrong, the Celts have proven NOTHING yet, but considering who they have I think you have to give those three the benefit of the doubt at this point.

Open for argument as always.

All the reasons for even stronger and louder: GO RAPTORS GOOOOO!!!! "

No consensus here, which makes the debate interesting. My 3 cents:

1. Of all the Big 3 talk, how about the Wizards? As opposed to the Celts or Nets, Jamison is still in his prime, Butler is in his prime, and Arenas is getting more and more unstoppable each year. A lot of you are discounting how age and injuries can simply kill a team. Kidd will be frickin' 34.5 years old when the season starts -- sure, he's awesome and makes everyone around him better, but expecting him to stay injury free is a stretch.

2. Howland, I'm sorry, but you're being quite selective and uninformed to write: "The depth argument is a strong one [but] if you look at match-ups like Mutombo (if he signs) vs. Rasho, Tony Allen vs. Delfino, Scalabrine vs. Humphries there is no distinct advantage." Uh, beyond the fact that Scalabrine is brutal -- his best years were with Kidd feeding him the ball -- and besides the hypothetical 41-year-old Mutombo staying healthy, how about Garbo vs. ??? How about Dixon vs. ??? How about Baston vs. ??? So you discount Garbo and talk up Tony Allen, who may be promising but is coming off an even worse injury (torn ACL) than Garbo? Well, the Celts just picked up Scott Pollard, NOW they're a force to be reckoned with. I'm sorry, man, but that's weak.

3. One more thing, there may not be much of it currently on the Raptors, but there is the other 1/2 of the game called defence. So to write: "Lebron can take an average team to the Finals" -- well this average team was 2nd in the league (to the Bulls) in rebounds, 5th in the league (2nd in the East behind the Pistons) in points allowed, and 1st in the league in 3PT% allowed, etc., etc. Unfortunately for them, in the Finals they went up against a team that was comparable defensively (which was the real reason the Finals were dreadful to watch) and much more efficient offensively (which is why the Suns/Spurs series was great to watch from an offensive standpoint). So this persistent generalization that "Lebron and Crap" won the East and can't do it again is about as substantive as handing the Celtics' "Big 3 and Crap" the Atlantic before they even play a game together.

[Offtopic]

Now that CBC is picking up some Raps game, I can dream of my ultimate broadcasting team again, and that'd be: Dan Shulman and John Suanders.

The only problem is, none of them are really colour guys. Now I like Jack Armstrong and/or Leo, but maybe we need some new colour with our colour guys (plus Jack's ego and fake cliches are starting to wear thin on me).

What about Charles Oakley as a colour guy? You'd have to be ready with the censor button at all times.

You know who might be alright? Butch Carter. Dead-pan, but brutally honest!

I liked Jay Triano when he was on the analysis team, but obviously he's a little busy.

I wonder what Oliver Miller's up to these days?

Bedhead:
"Ok, I know I'm a contrarian sometimes, but seriously. Better than...;"

Phoenix: Yes.
Nash and Stoudemire are the real powerhouses there IMO. Everyone else looks good because they play off those two.

San Antonio: Maybe.
The only maybe of the group. The Spurs are proven, Boston isn't (yet).

Lakers: Yes.
Are you serious? Their whole problem is that they only have Kobe and Odom and other guys who only have a heartbeat...

New Jersey: Yes.
I don't think I need to explain why Carter/Jefferson are worse than Allen/Pierce. Kidd and KG are both excellent players at their respective positions, and I'd argue can equally impact a game.

Detroit: Yes.
By a lightyear.

Keep in mind, that's only the best three vs best three. San Antonio, Phoenix, New Jersey, and Detroit all have infinitely more depth. LA, they're another story altogether and don't really even belong in the list as you pointed out they haven't got that third person to be part of the "Big 3."

Blake has a good point - just how good can this Raptor Team be this year?If they show the growth and progress that I expect, I'm not worried about either Jersey or Celtics, they cannot match our depth and frankly I would not trade our big three for their big three- even for this one upcoming season.
Are all these people who are questionning Doc' coaching abilities the same who were out for Sams head for the last 18 months?
And Howland, CB4's job got a whole lot tougher this off-season with Atlantic recent additions, but does anyone out there doubt he's ability to handle the task?

Shep said that a Garnett-Pierce-Allen trio was better than the following;

Phoenix: Yes.
Nash and Stoudemire are the real powerhouses there IMO. Everyone else looks good because they play off those two.

Bedhead: Wow - no love for Marion? The guy goes for 20-10 every night, doesn't demand the rock to be effective, and guards every position from 1-5 at an all-star level, and you think Stoudemire makes him look good? I have to disagree on this one. Stoudemire is a pure finisher, and I love his game, but Marion is the all-purpose all-weather warrior that truly compliments Nash. I'll eat my words if the Celtics win 60 games.

Shep said:

San Antonio: Maybe.
The only maybe of the group. The Spurs are proven, Boston isn't (yet).

Bedhead: I guess they are proven. Two playoff MVPs and Ginobli. That seems a tad better than three guys who never make it out of the 2nd rnd to me.

Shep again;

Lakers: Yes.
Are you serious? Their whole problem is that they only have Kobe and Odom and other guys who only have a heartbeat...

Bedhead: No, I wasn't really serious. Lets move along.

New Jersey: Yes.
I don't think I need to explain why Carter/Jefferson are worse than Allen/Pierce.

Bedhead: No you don't. But for comparisons purposes, I don't see how the GAP trio are much better than the Nets trio. I'd personally rather have Carter than Ray-Ray and Kidd (despite his age) over Pierce. However, KG over Jefferson is more than a little lopsided, I grant you. For the record, I predict that the Nets will have more wins than the newly reconstituted Celtics.

Shep again:

Detroit: Yes.
By a lightyear.

Bedhead: Wow. I just don't see it. Sure Wallace is a downgrade to KG (just about everyone at the PF IMO outside of Duncan is), but I'd rather have Billups over Pierce, and either Hamilton or Prince over Allen. Easy.

I also admit, I've been drinking the Raptors cool-aid and that the trio of Bosh-Bargnani-Ford will be better than the GAP trio. Ha! You say, but consider this;

- Bosh vs KG is very nearly a wash as Bosh continues to improve and KG plateaus.

- Ford has a dimension that cannot be coached, or coached against - other-worldly speed.

- Bargnani has all the outside tools that Allen has, plus he's a 7 footer who can rebound and play the pivot, and for bonus points, his ankles and knees are all surgery free.

Tinman.. I agree with you, I had NBA League pass and I have seen every game played with raps and Timberwoolves, and I have seen the way CB4 plays KG and KG is good but he cannot handle CB4, I really do not believe all of a sudden the Celtic is a better team than the Raps aparently the guys on ESPN agrees with the Raps fans that believe this team is better, the ESPN guys think the Celtics will at the bottom not at the top and the Raps will be in the 3rd spot in the east

HMMMMmm.. lest we not forget:

Yao, T-Mac & Francis

Iverson, Melo, Camby...

what about: Oden, Roy, Aldridge?

Oden, Roy, Aldridge?

Oden hasn't even played an NBA game yet but now a big three?????pls just a joke I hope

Frankly, I'm not on the bandwagon with Oden just, in fact I don't think he'll place top 3 in the R.O.Y. C's always take a long time to develop. However, I think if they could keep them all signed, they could be a dominate top 3 bunch in 2010.

As for the fantasy league of games of just 3on3, I'll also throw in the team of Shaq, Mourning, and D. Wade.

Comparing apples to oranges is somewhat pointless but fun none the less.
Anyone who thinks that NJ's big three can compare to Boston's big 3 are just plain fooling themselves. Jefferson has been offered around the league and most teams have passed on him because he is a watered down version of Wince (although a better defender). He is the weak link on that team from a talent standpoint and don't Kidd yourself about it.

At the end of the day the comparison is about top 5 players are their position and all three of Boston's big three fall in that category. Pierce (SF) is better than almost everyone at that position outside of Lebron (http://lockedonsports.blogspot.com/2007/07/ranking-small-forwards-in-nba.html).
KG Number one PF in the league (http://www.nba.com/fantasy/draft_kit/powerforwards1_15.html).
Allen - Ranked 3rd behind kobe and Wince ( I am not sure how Wade isnt ahead of Wince but I didnt rank them, maybe he considered him a PG).
That is what the writer was refering too. Notice that no other team with maybe the exception of Phoenix can compete with that. Parker is not even a top 5 guard (it isnt hard to win a Playoff MVP when you are feeding Ginobolli and Duncan and are being defended by garbage).
Top 5 PGs
1. Nash
2. Wade (assuming you consider him a PG).
3. Kidd (he is 2nd if no Wade).
4. Chris Paul
5. Baron Davis
6. Chris Paul
7. Parker (finally.

This isnt to knock Parker because he is a damn good guard but he is not in the top 5. All the guys above him are simply better overall than Parker is and that is unlikely to change.

uh, is Chris Paul really #4 and #6? Where does Deron Williams fit in here?

If we're talking about winning a NBA Championship, I think measuring your top 3 really doesn't factor in much. It maybe a fun fantasy concept, however I think the formulae is really measuring the Top 1 player on a team + Top 2-8.

I think who your top 1 is makes all the difference in the world.. again back to my champions over the last 25+ years. If you ain't got Shaq, Duncan, Jordan, Hakeem, Zeek, Bird, Magic, Dr. J or are named Detroit. You ain't won nothing.

Ooops I meant to put Williams in the 6 spot. Thanks for pointing that out.

the celts' are trying to lure Reggie Miller out of retirement.

You know a trio I'd look out for this year too (just to throw this out there), J-Rich + G-Wallace + Okafor. If Oak and Wallace can stay healthy, that's a pretty dominant group as well. And with Felton feeding them the rock, this could be a more than decent team this season. Playoff good? Maybe, just maybe.

The best top 3 in basketball would have to be Prince and any two members of the Revolution.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=8wNiQqIfH2k

LA - That's my favourite Chappelle skit ever...thanks for the post, I lose it everytime I see Prince shooting jump shots...

LAs Only Raptor Fan

That was too funny I put it in my favourites to look at again sometime and share

Bedhead:

Don't get me wrong, I believe Marion is a good player, I just think he has things easy because he's playing next to another dominant big. It's easy to be a 20-10 guy when you rarely get the double because everyone else is worried someone else (or sometwo else in this case).

On the Spurs comment, KG has been to the WC Finals when he had ONE other person to help -- in the West no less. Now that he has Pierce and Allen to work with, I don't see him stopping short of the NBA Finals (barring injuries of course).

On Detroit, I said best 3 vs best 3. Detroit is a much deeper team, no doubt. They have two really potent top tier guys (top 5 at their position), and two guys who are arguably top 10. For them, that's good, but they do not have three top 5 players.

The big worry I'd have if I was the Celts would be guys like Bruce Bowen, not other whole teams.

I think the East is going to break down like this this year:
1. Chicago
2. Detroit
3. Toronto
4. Washington
5. Boston
6. Cleveland
7. New Jersey
8. New York/Miami/Orlando (outside chance Charlotte squeaks in).

The reason I think we win the regular season in our division is becausewe're a deep team, and deep teams do well in the regular season.

Damnit, I hit submit too soon. Gotta stop typing in the Captcha before posting :P.

Anyway, my actual list:
1. Chicago
2. Toronto
3. Washington
4. Detroit
5. Boston
6. Cleveland
7. New Jersey
8. New York/Miami/Orlando (outside chance Charlotte squeaks in).

Shep, Washington still has no defence. Their best player is great, but not getting better. How will they surpass last year’s showing when they were fighting for 6/7 before the injuries?

As for Marion, he stepped up in the absence of Amare. It’s hard to support an argument that he has done nothing on his own without the benefit of no defence that was too focused on Amare. He has been key for many seasons now. He is the real thing.

And oh yeah, not sure who you are discounting from the Minnesota team, but there were 3 of them and at the time, all 3 were good.

I will concede that Boston will improve over last year’s showing. But I just don’t see how three guys can beat a solid team.

Washington were in the mix at the top when they were decimated by injuries about two thirds through the season.
Check your facts.

Tinman is very correct. I even picked up Haywood in my fantasy league as a C because he was doing decent with Arenas and Butler feeding him the ball. Of course, when the two of them got injured, the wheels fell off. Nobody can discount the intensity of Agent Zero.

For the record, Butler missed 6 games in March which I’m ignoring because, well, which team didn’t have a key player out for 6 games? Butler then missed the rest of the season starting on April 3rd. He was joined on the sidelines by Gilbert on April 4th.

On April 3rd, the eastern standings were as follows:

1 Detroit 0.649%
2 Cleveland 0.600%
3 Chicago 0.587%
4 Toronto 0.554%
5 Miami 0.541%
6 Washington 0.534%
7 NJ 0.466%
8 Orlando 0.459%

So Tinman, I have checked my facts.

I love Gilbert more than anyone, he is a ‘Zona boy. But Washington was in 6th at the time of injuries and with the improvements to other eastern conference teams, will be fighting for 7/8 spot this year.

You stated the were fighting for 6th or 7th. Based on info you provided thats quite a gap between them and Jersey.
There were just as close to second as seventh. Your first comment was incorrect - deal with it.

Tinman, they were in 6th. That's a far cry from the prediction of 3rd which I was responding to. I thought the point was clear but I’ll go a little slower for you next time.

Erezona, that ranking is wrong anyways. It would be impossible for Detroit, Cleveland, and Chicago to be 1-2-3. Win% is not divisional rankings. Chicago would be 5th, not 3rd, Toronto would be 3rd, and Miami would be 4th.

Either way, arguing 3rd vs fighting for 6/7th when they were actually what, 1 or 2 games out of 3rd/4th is just silly.

I listed them up there because the Heat have gotten worse, and I see Washington taking their division, and probably having a better record than Toronto due to their weaker division. All that is of course barring major long-term injuries.

Oh, and a couple other things:

On the Marion thing, sure, he stepped up when Amare was out. The Raps went on a winning streak when Bosh went out, but how many wins do you see them getting without Bosh? My point being of course that for brief periods decent players can step their game up, but don't necessarily step it up and maintain it at that elite level. I just don't think if you take Marion and put him on say Charlotte or Minnesota that he's going to stay a 20/10 guy who's a decent defender etc... I don't think he could handle being doubled all the time for an entire season.

3 guys beat a solid team in the playoffs all the time. Look at the Heat. The regular season is a different story, and I don't really need to repeat all that I've said about that, because it's all there already.

Shep, I just don’t see where you are going with the Marion thing.

When Stoudemire was out 79 games in 05-06, Marion had career highs in points, rebounds and blocks. This was not for a brief period but for 79 games. Dude can flat out play. The guy was practically a 20-10 guy before Stoudemire came into the league (19.1 – 9.9) in 2001-2002. This is while playing with Marbury, Hardaway, Jake Tsakalidis and Bo Outlaw. He is a legitimate star and deserves that much credit.

I think you are selling the Suns short. They have one of the best 3 man combos in the league and suggesting Marion somehow is not good enough defies all logic. I think their team stacks very nicely against anyone. After all, everyone knows they were the true champs this past season.

As for the Wizards, I guess we can just agree to disagree. Wade will hopefully not miss more games than he did last year. No, I’m not impressed with their roster, but it was always the Wade show and nothing else. So not having anyone good around him this year is no different than last year. Washington has done nothing to improve and I’ll take Wade over Gilbert any day.

Nice little throw down there between Shep and Zona. I think I agree with zona though with respect to Marion. I mean 79 games is a whole season of being double teamed and he still produced. He used to always win the award for the most under-rated guy in the league. He certainly isn't that anymore, but he also isn't over rated. A 20/10 SF that often plays out of position is wicked. He also is that teams best defender.

Out with the old and in with the new...

I don't know why, but I don't really think much of Washington OR the Heat. Washington seems to have a lot of nice parts, but they sure sucked when Butler went down. Might have something to do with him being their only decent defender. Miami is D-Wade and Shaq, and Shaq is looking OLD and declining FAST. I even think that Detroit is dropping off a fair bit. They still haven't replaced Wallace's presence and looks like Webber isn't back either.

the NEW: I agree with whoever said to keep an eye on Charlotte. Okafor and Wallace are both Defensive Player of the Year candidates. Felton is quietly amazing (Baron Jr). Herrman really came on last year and May cleans the glass. All those guys are young and improving too. Plus you got Ammo and J-Rich. They have to break out soon. They should soon be playoff regulars.

Why is Chicago not WAY better than they are? They have so much talent. I know the knock is that they are only jump shooters, but c'mon. I think they will figure it out this year. This is just really random off the top of my head, but would a Bargnani for Thomas and Noah trade work?

The "deal with it" comment was inappropriate. But as Shep said there was maybe a three game difference between 6 and second which IMO is in the mix at the top.
Its a whole new ball game in the east this year and a few contenders from last year(for Eastern conference)will disappoint their fans this year.3 months before tipoff - you're guess is as good as mine. Injuries will surely play a part as well.

I stand corrected on Marion. He is going to be 30 this season (Well, May), and while he's a career 19/10 guy, I honestly see his stats declining over the next couple of years, even playing off Stoudemire/Nash.

I don't think I was selling Phoenix short, just Marion. Either way, the discussion was about the "Big 3" only. If it was Boston vs Phoenix 3v3 my money's on Boston. If they meet in the Finals this year, it will of course be on Phoenix. Next year, Boston. I think they'll need a year to gel, but I also think they're already better than half of the teams in the East by simply having those three guys.