The SF Dilemma - Fixable for Cheap?

by RaptorsHQ - Archives on May 25, 2007 12:00 AM EDT in Feature Stories

As we enter into the off-season everyone seems to agree on one thing. The Raps need more rebounding and they need to deal with the SF position. Once a position held down by the likes of Tracy Murray, Tracy McGrady and of course Vince Carter, the SF position has almost always been one of strength.

Until now.

Now there may be no bigger question heading into the off-season than what to do with the SF position. As of today, when you look at the Toronto Raptors roster the question really boils down to one thing, Joey Graham. The question that must be answered is simple, is he the guy or is he not the guy? If the latter, who could be?

The Case Against Joey Graham

This is where the majority of Raptor fans sit.

No more Joey. Bad Joey, Good Joey...who cares. Enough is enough.

Sure Graham has shown some things at times but he is infuriating to watch and is not progressing at a suitable pace. The most concerning issue is that more often then not he shows below average basketball IQ. How a guy can go for 19 points one night and then 0 the next is incomprehensible. In some ways Joey’s play is like a game of roulette. If you hit your number you win big (a double-double)...but most of the time you lose (the early yank).

It’s not so much that he hasn’t developed as a player because he has. The problem is that with such athleticism he should be able to have his way on the court, slash to the hoop and be that lock-down defender that this team needs. Shouldn’t he be the player he was supposed to be when we drafted him? Maybe it’s because he is the only real asset that came out of the Vince Carter trade that we, the fans, are so hard on him...but much of the criticism is deserved.

Joey had an opportunity to prove himself when Garbo went down. Sure he played better, but not well enough. It is time to find someone better. Someone who can do the things that this team needs the SF to do.

So who is out there?

With little cap space available (as of now only just over 3 million without re-signing Slokar, Mo Pete, Martin or Sow), if the answer is not Joey Graham then who? Who might be available to help resolve the SF issue? Well the only way to answer that question is by deciding what type of player is needed. The answer is this team needs a bit of a do-it-all. Without Mo Pete returning this team needs someone who can shoot the rock. As seen in the playoffs, when CB4 doesn’t have space, the offense becomes stagnant and ineffective. Second, the player needs to be able to play solid defense. The SF position arguably brings more star power than any other position in the league and the most offensive fire power. Therefore the Raptors need someone who can effectively guard this spot. Third, this player needs to be able to be able to create his own shot. There was too much standing around at times last year and guys were hesitant. We need someone who can be a fearless slasher and get foul calls. And finally, this player should be at least somewhat proficient in the rebounding department.

The problem of course is that if a SF like this was available they would cost way more than $3M per.

So the solution?

You’ve got to get these things, or at least some of them, FOR CHEAP.

It’s going to be difficult for Colangelo to do much on the FA market. Guys like Desmond Mason (who I believe would be a great fit), Mickael Pietrus, Matt Barnes and Gerald Wallace are just going to be too expensive. So addressing the SF dilemma is not going to be as easy as throwing money around. Besides there is no way MLSE ventures into luxury tax land regardless of how many games they decide to put on RapsTV next year.

The task at hand is then one of finding a player who has not proven themselves as of yet, but could bring these things to the table if given the chance. Oh and a little luck wouldn’t hurt either. Are there SF’s out there who given a change of scenery and a chance could have a Kevin Martin-like year? Or better yet a Boris Diaw like year like when Colangelo brought him over from Atlanta? With some research and some luck are there players just looking for a better situation who when given the opportunity, could shine? Are there guys who could play like $8M per year players while getting $2M per year pay cheques?

The HQ has scoured NBA rosters league wide and have come up with a few players who may be available and may be able to help the Raps answer the SF dilemma....and do it for cheap.

1. Martell Webster: When the Trailblazers took Martell Webster with the 6th pick in the 2005 draft people were surprised. Straight out of high-school no-one questioned his shooting and no-one questions his frame. At 6'7 Webster has a prototypical NBA SF body. There were however, questions about his upside. Since the 2005 draft? There are still questions about whether Webster will amount to anything more than a shooter. Webster just this past few weeks participated at the WMG Prospect workouts with players like JJ Redick, Josh McRoberts, Corey Brewer, Joakim Noah and others. The reviews of Martell’s performance were not all positive and questions remain about his game, in particular his ability to create his own shot.

When you look at Webster’s season as a whole nothing really jumps off the page, but this is of course the exercise. If Martell was tearing it up he wouldn’t be an option. For the season he played 21 minutes per game and averaged 7 ppg, 2.9 rebounds and shot just under 40%. What is interesting though is his performance the last three games of the regular season where he started to get some serious burn from Coach McMillan. Against Golden State, Utah and Seattle Webster played an average of 37 minutes. The result? 15 ppg, 5.3 boards, 1.7 three’s and 50% shooting from the floor.

Martell is intriguing and although he still lacks the desired creativity off of the bounce, he has shown some good things in other areas, in particular rebounding. Webster grabbed 8 rebounds in a game 4 times this season and late in the season began to receive some praise for his willingness to contribute on the glass and be active defensively.

2. Ryan Gomes: A second round steal, Gomes is a player. From a statistical standpoint Gomes is the best player on this list. Is he a possibility? The Green Machine have Wally-World and his huge contact in that spot and already have their SF of the future in Gerald Green. On top of that Boston will be picking 5th in the draft and looking at a player like Corey Brewer. So does Gomes have a place on this team?

Gomes was considered a first rounder by some but fell into the second round in the 2005 draft. Coming out of Providence he was viewed, much like Joey Graham, as a bit of a tweener. During his university career he spent most of his time on the blocks with an average mid-range game. He received many accolades for his play at Providence but given where he was drafted, it doesn’t look like anyone expected him to play this well. At least not this early.

This season Gomes was one of the lone bright spots for the Celtics where he was an efficient scorer and an decent rebounder (12.1 ppg and 5.6 rpg). The biggest knocks against him is that he is only an average athlete and is not a threat from deep. The lack of athleticism is a concern on the defensive end where in 31 minutes a game he averages less than one steal.

Gomes has however impressed offensively despite his limited range. He has also shown a willingness to get to the line. The question here is not whether he could contribute but whether he could bring the things that the Raps are going to need. Is his game not somewhat similar to Mr. Graham?

3. Quinton Ross: If defense was the only thing the Raps were looking for, Ross would be at the top of this wish list. The un-drafted Ross plays both the SG and SF position and has proven himself a pesky defender. One of the best LA Clipper blogs (www.clipsnation.com) has called him their best on the ball defender and on many occasions Ross is asked to guard the opposing team’s best wing man.

Although he has established himself as a solid defender, Ross is far from being a offensive weapon. In his three seasons he has averaged 5 ppg, to go along with 2.5 rpg in just over 21 minutes. Much like Gomes he is also no threat from downtown where he has only attempted 21 for his career....hitting three.

His defensive abilities can’t help but make you think about a guy who currently holds down the starting SF spot for the San Antonio Spurs, Mr. Bowen. Bruce Bowen has never been considered an offensive threat and it wasn’t until his seventh season in the L that he averaged more than 7ppg. Bowen has actually never averaged more than 8.2 ppg. Ask the Spurs if that bothers them and inevitably the answer is no. Bowen did however show more of a propensity to hit the long range shot early in his career as compared to Ross.

The question he is really whether a Raps line-up with Ross could score enough points. Initially the answers seems to be yes and Bosh, Ford, AP and Bargs can all score....but Ross would have to be at least average on the offensive end or else the Raps would end up playing 5 on 4 at times.

Ross could not be depended on to create his own shot, but he could make it difficult for his man to score the rock

4. Amir Johnson: Not able to meet the academic credentials to play NCAA ball this kid put his name in the NBA draft last year and was damn lucky to get picked.

In all honesty this kid has barely played and given the depth of the Detroit team perhaps that is to be expected. What is apparent though is that playing against these guys in practice and his stint in the D-League has really helped his game. Although 6'10 and originally viewed as a PF, his body is much like that of Hakim Warrick who plays both the 3 and the 4.

A great athlete, when given an opportunity Johnson has showed that he could really be a solid player. Not only has he shown a great nose for the ball, he is also a great shot blocker. In only 15 minutes a game this season Amir averaged 5.9 ppg, 4.6 rpg and an astonishing 1.63 blocks. It is of course more than likely that Johnson will need another year before he is ready to be a steady contributor but giving such a great athlete a chance who has already started to show the ability to do almost all the things the Raps need out of the position (save for long range shooting), Amir could be that diamond in the rough.

The inability to find a way to meet the academic criteria to get into Louisville is concerning, but Chad Ford in recent chats has given the kid some props. It may be tough to get him out of Detroit but as a RFA the right deal could do it. Having paid Amir just over $600,000 and now faced with paying big dollars to lock-up Billups in the off-season, would $2M per get it done? Is $3M too much?

The Case For Joey Graham

Let’s look at things totally objectively. Let’s let the numbers do the talking. Here is an exceptionally athletic, young, yet mature player who in his second season only logged 16.7 minutes a game. That amounts to just over one quarter of play.

In those 17 minutes? 6.4 ppg, 3.1 rpg and he shoots a very high percentage from the floor and from the line. He also has shown some ability from behind the arc.

Looking at those stats and his pure athletic ability, if you were a GM on another team wouldn’t you think maybe Graham is a bit of a sleeper? Hell Colangelo may be selling him like that as you read this. On the flip side don’t those stats say give him one more year to prove he can take the next step? The thing with Graham is that he has the ability. He just has a difficult time staying on the court to display that ability. There are a number of reasons for this, including poor rotations on defense, and his propensity to foul on both ends of the court.

But write him off? Isn’t that a little hasty? Graham was asked to come into the NBA and play a position he had never played in college and he has improved. Sometimes it looks like the light has come one. Sometimes he makes an incredible play, and those few times he gets on a roll, if you are at all like me, you start to wonder, "What if?"

It’s the "What if?" question that makes deciding what to do with Graham so difficult. Maybe the more important questions to ask though are "Can he do it?" and " If so, when?"

Graham is scheduled to make $1.6M this coming season. As of today that makes him the lowest paid Toronto Raptor on the roster. There is also an option on his contract. At such a low salary and given the cap restrictions facing the Raps this year is there a better option? Is there someone out there who at a similar price has similar upside and could provide the possibility of more than what Graham can offer?

Graham played much better defense this year than last. He did not leave his feet nearly as much as his did as a rook and at times his defense was pretty commendable. Graham has also shown a willingness to get to the hoop. Sure he has been called for more offensive fouls than Milt Palacio but he has at least shown a willingness to get there and sometimes the finish is pretty. More often than not it is still uncontrolled aggression....but aggression none the less. He has range and if he could get the respect of the refs could be a great asset in terms of getting to the line and making free-throws.

Third year is really the make or break year. He should be given that chance. At only $1.6M and still with "upside", what’s the risk?

Conclusion:

It is not possible to gauge what interest Boston, LA, Portland or Detroit would have in dealing or re-signing the above players listed. Each would provide something different but yet they all have a few things in common....they are cheap targets with good potential. The one concerning characteristic they all share is their inability to create off the bounce, and slash to the hoop. This is one thing Graham has shown an ability to do.

As mentioned above there is a strong case for Graham having a breakout season on the numbers alone. On the flip side Joey is inconsistent and sometimes even seems to regress. Will a summer of development help? Will he commit to working on his dribbling and watch tape? If the team gives Graham another year to put it together will it be rewarded with consistent play or is now the time to start looking for another diamond in the rough with limited cash?

This is indeed the small forward dilemma.

HOWLAND

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Comments

Here is my thing about the Salary Cap. Didn't the Raps have like one of the lowest payrolls in the league last year? If so, then how can they only be 3mil under the cap when the Cap is decided by the average salary structure for the league? Maybe I am missing something here.
As for Joey G. The Raps now find themselves in a precarious position. They should have won that series against NJ but didnt. They dont have a pick in the draft (at least currently) and they need to make decisions as to what to do with Jose (trade him for some assests or sign him to a long term deal and maybe deal ford). They need to dump Rasho as he is simply too expensive to back up Il Maggo, but other than humphries they don't have a lot of depth behind bosh and bargnani. On top of all that they have to decide whether Joey G is the answer or not. To be fair to Graham it was obvious that he was very ill during the playoffs (no one could be that lackadasical) and he should be commended for even trying to play. I have to agree that the Raps need to ride him for one more year. Give him the starting job and let him sink or swim. He is cheap, he has the upside, and they cannot afford another option (unless they find a sucker... I mean taker for Nasho). At this stage they have nothing to lose. The Raps no matter what are not going to win the championship next year (nor will they truly contend for it) and will have an extremely tough time just contending for the division title as I expect NJ, Philly and NY to all be at least a little bit better next year. As that is the case, maybe you take a step back, start graham and play him 40 minutes a night regardless of his performance and just let him get better. If he fails, then at least you know and he won't have any excuses ("they never played me" "the coach pulled me after every little error" blah blah blah). Next year you will have a pick and you might be able to get another one in a deal for one of your other assests during the season. There really doesn't seem to be a lot of other options.

by McGateway on May 25, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Hi, given all of the above and given what's out there can anybody state for sure we can actually come back with something better than Mo Pete and Joey? Changing for the sake of it rarely brings benefits at all...

by renato on May 25, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I'm all for keeping jg until the trade deadline at least because as you say, he's cheap, and he's a role-player anyway.

This looks like a great list of guys though and if I'm BC, I get Quinton Ross as a defensive stopper. If our big three plus calderon continue to improve, the need for a scoring sf will diminish.

Long term, it doesn't seem like jg has the "fire" to really win. Watching guys like varejao and maxiel last night, couldn't help but wonder why JG can't do those same things, just follow every shot, leap for every rebound and be the first down the court every chance you get.

by axl on May 25, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Has anyone noticed the players slated to go at #22?

According to nbadraft.net (http://www.nbadraft.net/index.asp )The Raps former first-round pick (now with Charlotte via Cleveland in the Lamond Murray for Michael Stewart trade) could be used on Marc Gasol...

In my mind, having Gasol would then make Rasho 100% available for trades, and opens up a lot better SF scenarios because he represents $8M+ in trade value.

So, while I applaud Glen Grunwald for finding anyone who would take Michael Stewart in a trade, that #1 pick would definitely have come in handy this year.

by BC on May 25, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I don't have a problem in theory with trading Rasho (though I thought he was underused most of the year and in the playoffs, though NJ with Jason Collins playing zero part in the offence isn't really a good matchup for Rasho), but I don't think we'd get close to $8 million in player-value for him.

We'd probably be able to get about what we gave up for him - a decent lesser player (Bonner) and a relatively low-priced bad contract (Williams; as opposed to a Knick-esque high-priced bad contract).

by MattK on May 25, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Good point Howland, re: Raps fans caring more because Joey's the last vestige of the Wince trade.

Fact is, he was a #16 pick. For every Randolph, Redd or Rashard, there are just as many *Top 10* picks who crap out (see: Griffin, Eddie).

Going back through the years of #16 picks prior to KiloGraham: 2004-Kirk Snyder, 2003-Troy (not Charlie) Bell, 2002-Jiri Welsch, 2001-Kirk Haston (passing over the stud that was Michael Bradley), 2000-Hedo Turkoglu.

So we have to go 6 years prior to find a pick who has actually performed better consistently than Joey. Some players are NBA-ready, others aren't. Here's hoping that BC can (sign-and-) trade all non-Jose assets to get a G-Force or SideShow, because just relying on the cap room to provide a suitable starting SF is asking for trouble.

by jjdynomite on May 25, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

great article! love the research that was put into finding some different names for sf spot.

my first impressions are:

webster: intriguing if our high character team can get him to focus more on his game.

gomes: good choice not athletic enough for bc's liking (in comparsion to garbo)

ross: no offensive potential kinda rules him out

amir johnston: not quite ready but very intruiging. agree he might be had if we give him an
offer in the $2 to 3 range.

i believe in joey but it's best for him to go to a more structured system of play.

remember what he was told to work on last summer? playing. sam just wanted him to play more. sam recognizes that joey does not have the best feel for the game and can't really do much to help him there.

i like doug's suggestion today to trade him and cash for a draft pick.

my pick right now would be dominic mcguire. and he might be even had in the 2nd round.

by dileroscoe on May 25, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Of the players Howland has mentioned, I like Ross and Gomes the best. Gomes isn't super athletic, but can get you close to a triple double every night with enough minutes meaning he contributes in so many ways. He's also a great rebounder for his size and a crafty scorer. If AP gets more indoctrinated into the offense and Bargs keeps adding to his scoring game however, Q Ross might be the perfect fit at the 2.

On Monday we'll be throwing around some draft ideas as well in terms of various teams BC may want to touch base with. The problem, as Howland mentioned, is that yes, we did have one of the league's lowest payrolls McGateway, but when the extensions to Bosh and TJ's new deal kick in, that's not going to be the case anymore. Therefore some draft-day creativity and "diamond in the rough" work will be a must for BC to keep improving the club.

by Franchise on May 25, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I already put my vote in for Ross in another post, so I'll stick with him. He's not a three point shooter, but his mid-range game is decent. I understand the reluctance to play 5 on 4 at the offensive end (see Ben Wallace) but Ross isn't that bad. If Bruce Bowen can carve out a career as a starter on a championship team, this guy can surely help the Raptors out.

by Skywalker on May 25, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Am I dreaming this or did Ross get in trouble with the SPCA for allegedly torturing his dog?

In either case, Ross has no business on a winning team. If you can’t score more than 5ppg, you are in the wrong league. The only reason he’s getting burn in LA is because of Dunleavy’s personal issues with Maggette. There is no way BC brings him in.

The problem with Webster is that he has no confidence and as a results, he doesn’t score much for stretches at a time which is really the only thing he’s on the court to do. Gomes isn’t the slasher we need and Johnson is not really anyone we can evaluate based on the limited minutes he’s played.

The best option is the player we have. Graham is a better option than any of the one’s mentioned and I think he’ll be fine. Just need a little more patience. He did find his game at the end of the season and them suffered from the flu. I’m sure he comes out smoking next season.

If anything, I bring in Warrick or even Johnson just to keep some competition going with Graham. Warrick has huge potential in our system and is out of style in Memphis. He could be had!

by Erezona on May 25, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Wow - great analysis guys - top drawer.

Alright I'm convinced...we give Kilo-Graham another shot.

Strangely, I'm somewhat comfortable with this despite what I think are his obvious (and well documented) problems. His performance over the last quarter was infinitely better than the first three, and he was definitely suffering seriously from the flu that ravaged the team.

Could he really be the double-double rim-rocking threat we need? Maybe.

But even if his odds are low, at his price-tag it's worth a shot.

I liked the Quintin Ross suggestion, because defense is certainly something that the team needs in spades, but he's the kind of head-case we should avoid. I mean, dog fighting? C'mon.

I guess there is no way Andres Nocioni will get an offer - which is too bad - IMO he'd be a dynamite fit.

I think ultimately, BC did his job last year blowing things up and rebuilding with the players he did.

Barring a trade (probably point guard related) the team looks to advance next years record by improving what is already here - and given the ample youth on this team, that improvement seems likely.

Damn I wish we had a draft pick though.

by Bedhead on May 25, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Is no one even willing to talk about Ron Artest.

Worst case, his contract is up in 1 year.

And think of all the blog banter.

by raptorville on May 25, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Nice analysis of the SF situation in Raptorland and I agree that Graham should get more time to develop.
Khryapa is another player that might be worth a look and may be had for a future 2nd rnder if BC can stay below the cap. Of course this would mean casting Peterson adrift, which I'm not convinced is a good idea. Perhaps Dixon for Viktor might tempt the Bulls.

by ZoneD on May 25, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I searched the archives for anything regarding Quinton Ross and the SPCA, but I couldn't find anything. But let's say for the sake of argument that there's something to it.

I think teams can get by with one head case. There may even be a benefit in having a guy who brings a killer instinct to a roster chock full of nice guys, particularly when the team needs a collective kick in the ass. Where you get into trouble is if you have more than one head case, because all sorts of crazy crap starts to happen (e.g. Artest and Jackson in Indiana, Rasheed Wallace and...well, pretty much the entire roster in Portland).

Having said that, I wouldn't mind knowing more about what Ross was alleged to have done. Obviously, you want to make sure he's not TOO crazy.

by Skywalker on May 26, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Great article and interesting thought put into who MIGHT be able to help us for cheap. It frustrates me a little that going a little over the cap is such a non starter. This team is deep and set at every position, except a quality SF. If we could sign a perfect fit (G. Wallace), that wouldn't be a gamble yet only put us a little over the cap, it would have to be worth it.

That said, if there is no way MLSE will pay luxury tax, there is a low risk solution to any of the players you have listed. There is a player that we could sign without having to pay luxury tax that can play solid D, Shoot the 3, drive the net and be a solid fit with this team. He is none other than Mo Pete.

I must admit that living in Scotland, i have had to listen to games rather than watch. However, it seems to me that Mo got a bit of a bum rap this year. As a team leader and solid vet, he should have had a little more leeway before being pulled out of the starting line up. Look how much patience Smitch had with Fred Jones!? Mo Pete has shown time and again, that if you put him in, and let him play his 35 mins he will produce. I have no idea why he fell so out of favor this year. My conspiracy theory is that Smitch thinks it was MoPete that spoke to Marty York in that stupid article at the beginning of the season.

We will have the Bird rights to Mo and after this season he probably won't command too much money. Ideally we could offer a little more money for a shorter term deal. We know what type of a player we would be getting, and he would be a very capable back up if Kilo Graham can ever put it together.

PS - I do think we have to keep JG for another year, he is so cheap to keep around it would be silly to throw away his potential.

by Robert Archibald on May 26, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I think people are confusing Quentin Ross with Qyntel Woods...I've never heard anything about Ross being involved with dog fighting OR being a head case. In fact he's been a stand-up guy through all the Clips drama. On top of this, I'm not even convinced he's a terrible offensive player...anyone remember last year's Clippers/Suns series? If not, here's an excerpt:

Mike Dunleavy went back to his original starting lineup, with Quentin Ross at small forward and Corey Maggette coming off the bench. Earlier in the series, Phoenix had guarded Ross with Nash, allowing Marion to cover Sam Cassell. This time, the Clippers were prepared, and Ross went right at Nash in the post. Using his size advantage over the Suns' point guard, Ross attacked Nash in the paint area, posted him up and scored repeatedly. Ross made eight of his first 10 shots, eventually scoring a career-high 18 points, and he also played his usual steady defense.

by Franchise on May 26, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Franchise, that makes a lot more sense. I know Woods was wrapped up in that dogfighting turmoil and I never heard anything connecting Ross to such behaviour. It would seem atypical for a guy who played his college ball at Southern Methodist University.

For what it's worth, Bill Simmons continues to rave about Ross, and claims his production drop is due to him falling into Dunleavy's doghouse for some reason.

by Skywalker on May 26, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Very interesting discussion, most ideas suggested are reasonable and agreeable, the only exception for me is JoeyG which i would not give (yet) another chance.

It seems everyone would like an SF that can both defend and be am outside threat. If the salary constraints are such as s you explain, i don't think we can get that kind of player, so we should probably try to find someone who's either a 3pt shooter or a notable defender. I'm fine with that, Garbo and Bargnani are not SFs but i think they could split time with this hypotetical signing.

Another option is trading both Rasho and Graham for a notable SF, that would also work for me provided we can find a decent cheap defensive-oriented center who would probably be enough to fill that position with the help of Garbo and Bargs when we need more offense.

Just my two cents...

by Sergi P on May 26, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

quentin ross -aka- qyntel woods...hahahaha...mcgateway...lets make a bet..if the raps take the east(3) again, and the divison title...you never doubt the raps again!

by keon Clark on May 26, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Well guys I live in the US and I was watching an interview on ESPN today they were interviewing Kevin Durant, and they ask him what is his faverite team growing up he said the Toronto Raptors he just love the way they play and he would love to play for them, it would be nice if BC could get him

by Marcia on May 26, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

My mistake, it was Woods I was thinking of, not Ross.

Marcia, interesting but there is more chance that I play for the Raptors next year than Durant.

by Erezona on May 26, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

2 names that might work based on your article..

Dorrell Wright
Travis Outlaw

Personally I want Wright. I have said it for years and I think he has a great chance to be good.

BC will get a pick.. SIgn n Trade Mo, Trading Rasho..

Dont forget the Mid Level Exception (5 mil.) and the Bi annual (2.5 mil) I think Pietrus could be had...

by CoachRaps on May 26, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Let's consider these Raptors numbers.
'06/07 Salaries $50.5mil with Cap $53.1mil & Lux Tax $67mil with current players.

'07/08 Salaries will be $56mil excluding DMart,MoPete,Slokar,Sow - expect Cap @ $55/56mil & Lux tax $70mil including Bosh & Ford @ new rates $20.5mil combined plus 9 others @$35.5mil leaving 4 to sign to fill out the 15 roster spots.

Available to sign new bodies is mid level exception of $6/7mil & biannual exception of $2/3mil.MoPete has Bird rights if BC wants to resign.
BC will look to aquire a 1st rnd pick for cash or cash/trade prob in 20/25 range.

Some FA's of interest in the $1/2mil current range may be:
Varejao/CLE, Carroll/CHA,Walton/LAL, Pietrus/GSW,Johnson/DET,Williams/MIL.

Raptors will have to go over the Cap probably or move a large contract, ie. Rasho, the only one that would help.

by Johnn19 on May 27, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Johnn19:

I don't think any of those guys are 1-2M range except maybe Amir. Sideshow Bob will get at least 6 per. Pietrus is a midlevel guy, so is Walton and Mo Williams has played himself into a contract of at least equal value to what Mike james signed.

Carrol is interesting but not really a slasher or a rebounder.

I don't think we are going to see many moves, but of course I also thought that Hoffa was virtually untradeable. BC could pull a rabbit out of his hat....but I stand by the four guys listed above.

by HOWLAND on May 27, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

As long as BC doesn't sign Darko to be our small forward. For that matter, let us never speak of his name again. Just the very thought of him putting on a Raptor uniform gives me the shivers.

by Skywalker on May 27, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

My biggest concern with Joey G: When the ball touches his hands, he takes an extra fraction of time to figure out what to do with it. Watch the tape. When the rock swings to Graham, things slow down, in an obvious way. Does decision making improve with experience?

by Observer on May 27, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

lebron holds on the ball too long..so does Bosh...the Mailman as well, back in the day..its all about what you do about it that matters..the only anyone ever speaks of this is when the player sucks at it..Joey G. is th eonly raptors other than Bosh who tries to dunk the ball when he's near the rim..rest of the raptors are shot happy, incld CB4!!...as 4 the sf position..i say keep joey, have luke go at it..doesn't work out..well thats why there's a tradedeadline..but i dont like any of the picks Howland..i mean seriously..amir???....who??

by Keon Clark on May 27, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I keep flip flopping on who we can get to fill the SF spot. SF is so much easier to fill than PG or C, there are just so many more options available.

I've said Wallace would be perfect, Mo Pete as a dark horse, but another name makes a lot of sense to me, and no one has mentioned him yet. Grant Hill is an unrestricted free agent.

We would probably land him for the mid-level exception. His outside shot and defence aren't anything to write home about, but he has a great hoops IQ, shares the ball well and can rebound for his size. He is also a model citizen and a great fit for this team.

Anyone else have a take on him?

by Robert Archibald on May 28, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Joey G is the default SF next year unless BC can land another diamond in the rough. Joey has flashes of brilliance but seems destined to be another failed product of the Babcock era.

Grant Hill would have been a great option except for all his health issues. You can't build a team with him on it and expect them to peak in two three years like the Raptors cuz Hill's ankles and knees probably won't last that long.

Jerry Stakchouse would be a good addition but I think he's out of our price range and I think he loves being in Dallas. Same goes for Gerald Wallace who if they're smart will get paid well and stay in Charlotte next year.

None of the players mentioned above do it for me so here's hoping BC can find a Many Ginobli in the making type player overseas.

by Todd on May 28, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I think I've actually moved into overkill with the SF spot for the raps. I have no idea anymore. joey g, though I've loved and hated him, then mostly just hated him, the argument about his price and potential for next year just makes complete sense.

the fA market looks terrible for the raps. the guys they would want - too expensive. the guys they could pick up with the money they have - all projects. could be good, could be bad.

atlanta could be good for trading into the lottery. phoenix even with their high first rounders.

a lot of teams could be blowing things up and starting over. (luke walton.)

I have no idea. july is going to be one interesting month, no doubt!

by papa on May 28, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

TARENCE KINSEY!!!!

one player you guys, and BC should definitely take a look at is Tarence Kinsey on Memphis. Although the rook didnt get much PT until near the end of the season, he was still getting slept on when he did get minutes. Kinsey recorded double digit pts in his last 13 games, on 17.2ppg in 40min. Not bad, for a rookie, who has trememdous athleticism, and a lanky frame. During those 13 games he shot a remarkable .533 from the field. He just needs to add some weight. But i think defensively, we have our perimeter stopper in AP, so I believe Kinsey would be a great pick up. Loads of potential being slept on, on this guy.

by Bimbo Coles on May 29, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

This is a great article and a great discussion. I've been pondering this question minus the insight and research you all have provided. I don't believe in the Joey G experiment. Perhaps it's not as important to upgrade here as it is to just get a fresh and motivated face in this spot. My favourite BC move last season was cutting losses with Fred Jones and giving Dixon a shot. Not saying it was a pivotal transaction, but I like this way of thinking. Of the names mentioned, I would vote for Ross (a proven starter), Gomes (slow but so smart and skilled), and D-train Wright (improving shot and great rebounding at the 3). Whatever happens, I think there is absolutely no doubt that Colangelo will bring in at least one SF to compete for the starting role.

by Commentatador on May 29, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Ever wonder what kinda party it'd be if Keon Clark and Loren Woods got together and threw a bash?

by ustation on May 29, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Another thing about the Raps. The more I think about it the more I believe the Raps should deal Ford now. His value will probably never be higher and you can get a something valuable for him. I know some love this idea (for the wrong reasons) because of his hoarding the ball so much but that will disappear with time I believe.
The reason I say this is because he simply isnt a good fit with what the raps are trying to do. Anyone who watches the games can see that the team flows better offensively with Calderon on the floor and even with his defensive defiencies, he is the better option long term (unless Ford really picks up everything in the offseason). Yes down the road Ford will probably be the better point guard but in the now you have money issues and a glaring hole on your starting squad. If you aren't going to take a step back (by letting Joey start and taking the hit) then you need to move ford and get a pick in this years draft and body back. His contract would free some space and you might even be able to package him somewhere (Memphis, Atlanta) to get what you need in the now (Atlanta makes the most sense, as you could probably get smith back and maybe even Atlanta's 11).
Think about that for a second. You are freeing up the cap room you need, solving the starting PG spot for next year, and bringing in the wing player you need to boot. As for a back up for Jose, you could draft Law (or Conley if they fall that far) or sign someone just to fill the minutes (maybe even bring Uric or whateva his name is over for that). Its a huge risk but if it were to pay off isnt it worth it?
One more thought. I wonder if Phoenix would take Calderon for Diaw? Even though Diaw screwed up this year by coming to camp out of shape, wouldn't he fit perfectly into what the Raps are doing? He is a triple double threat every night and he can play just about every position on the floor. Just a thought.

by McGateway on May 29, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

I like that idea. I have been saying it for awhile that we should trade Ford. We are a better team, more offensive fluidity with Calderon running the show. Josh Smith would be great, although Im not sure TJ would be enough. I am all for that trade, it is a great bargaining chip.. I trust BC though.

by CoachRaps on May 29, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

1. BC has said the core stays intact
2. No way you are getting Josh Smith from Atlanta unless you throw in Bosh and Bargnani as well
3. Why would you give up our best point guard and be left with a great backup as a starter and no support behind him? The idea is to improve the team, not destroy it. You don’t see the Suns improving my trading Nash for Gasol, you don’t see the Spurs improving by trading Parker for anyone else. The point is, you build around your core, not replace your core. You only get rid of your core if it’s just not working (see Baron Davis) or it’s poisonous (see Marbury). The point is to build around the stars that we have. I’m just as bored as the rest of you during this already excruciatingly long off-season, but why start this debate again? Ford is our future until BC says otherwise. Calderon is someone we could trade, but not until he signs an extension. Right now you won’t get his value worth with the low contract he has.

My preference would be not to trade Ford or Calderon. Give them another year to mature and then we can figure out where our future lies. Or more accurately, BC can figure out and we can agree.

P.S. Love TARENCE KINSEY, but unless he’s a free agent, no chance we are getting him from Memphis. They love him just as much as we do.

Luke is overrated. And considering his not rated that highly, that says a lot. The only thing worse then watching Luke getting nothing done on the floor is listening to his dad call the game through his LSD induced flashbacks.

by Erezona on May 29, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Josh Smith for Bosh AND Bargnani? You are kidding right?

by Assistant GM on May 29, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

Ok, yall need to get real about Josh Smith. Yes he is a good player but no way Raps would have to give up Bosh to get him. Bosh is a TWO TIME ALL STAR. Josh Smith just is not in that league yet. The reason I brought this scenario up was to point out there are a lot of teams who have issues that the Raps can exploit if they are willing to do what is necessary. I like Ford and think he will be a very good point guard for someone I am just not convinced he is the right guard for Toronto. His game actually tends to hinder their Offensive flow and I am not sure he can change enough to make me think differently.
The thing you have to remember is that Calderon is going to be a free agent at the end of this year. I highly doubt, given how much his game has improved, that he will willingly take backup money and a backup role on the Raps just to stay with his buddy Garbo. Some team is going to throw 8 or 9 mil at what they see as a potential spanish Steve Nash. So the problem for the Raps is they need to decide now what they are going to do in the future. Keep Ford or keep Calderon. If you decide to do the latter then doesn't it make sense to trade Ford now while his value is still high. He could always regress this season especially if Calderon takes the starting job from him. It is simply the law of diminishing returns. The longer you wait the lower your return. All you have to do is look at the VC situation for proof of that.
As for Atlanta, they have like 7 guys on their roster who all play the same position and same style. They can draft Conley but he is unlikely to come and make them a contender right away (could be wrong but a year coming off the bench would probably be good for him). The Raps could probably give them Ford and another piece for Smith and maybe Speedy Claxton or one of Atlanta's draft picks. Atlanta is not going anywhere until they get a quality starting Point Guard and that is simply a fact.
Besides I said it was a risky move but one that could pay huge dividends to the Raps. Their starting lineup would look something like this:
Bargnani
Bosh
Smith
Parker
Calderon
with Lue/Claxton/Conley/Law(one of them), Humphries, Dixon, and (insert name here) coming off the bench. That is not a bad team.
If you dont like that scenario how about this one. Calderon and a future pick to Boston for Gomes and Boston's #5. You could even take back the one head case for them in telfair as part of the deal. Tell me Boston wouldn't do that deal in a heart beat.

by McGateway on May 30, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions

i think that joey graham has a potential i think the raptors should keeep him for next year i think he is gonna become a star joey just needs someone big to play around him for a example like gerlad wallace or rashard lewis to learn from. remember tracy mcgrady they traded him and he became a star same with chauncy billups and marcus camby so i think he should stay

by chris james on Jul 1, 2007 12:00 AM EDT reply actions