Tip-In: Toronto Raptors Post-Game - Stormed

Ok, I'm a believer. The Celtics are good. Really good. I watched them versus the Raps in preseason and wasn't impressed, I felt they only won because they played their starters a lot longer than the Raps did. i saw them early in the season, and wasn't impressed. I felt they only won because Toronto's offense never showed up and even then it took overtime for them to win. I saw them win a couple weeks ago, and wasn't impressed, I felt they only won because Bosh and Bargnani were out. But today's games was damn impressive. Their defense was suffocating. Ever time the raptors swung the ball, the celtics had the correct defensive rotations, they got their hands into passing lanes, pressured the ball, they can rebound. And on offensive, pierce and garnett are GREAT one on one players, rondo can hit the open jumper, and get into the paint at will. House, Posey, and of course Ray Allen who missed the game can knock the down the three. I thought the celtics record was due to their cake schedule but i was wrong this team is formidable, and can hang with the best from the west. Sam Mitchell said it best, the celtics are just a better team than the raptors right now.

Turning point - I had the luxury of watching the game after knowing the score and seeing the box score so I knew at some point the raps would gain a big defecit and never recover. It happened when cb4 sat. They were only down a couple points, but by the time he was reinserted, we were down 20. Garnett played through the entire time. To me this was a huge coaching mistake that cost us our only chance of winning this game.

I agree with everything else. This is defnitely the kind of team were you have to push back when you're pushed and that was upsetting to me. Hopefully this sharpens us up for the road trip.

That Boston game presents a great opportunity to learn where the weaknesses are and improve - much more than a win over a lesser team would so it's likely the Raps will be better for it.

You got to feel for Bargs right now- Seems to be in such a hurry to shoot that his whole game's off. Looks like he's got to make up his mind to concentrate on some other fundamentals and let the shot come naturally. It may only take a couple of good games to get the confidence back. Let's hope.

If Bargnani is off his game why wouldn't the Raptors bring in a big man coach? What's Vlade Divacs or someone like him doing these days? He's Euro and understands how both the Euro game and the NBA game is played.

The Raps aren't going to send their #1 draft pick to the NBADL to learn so why not invest in him by getting a big man coach like the Lakers did with Andrew Bynum (Kareem) and like Orlando did with Dwight Howard (Ewing)?

I wish there was a way to ignore some posters!

Totally agreed with your assesment Franchise..If you check the stats from yesterday's game, Pierce and Garnett did not have a huge game stats wise. They were held in check for the most part with their scoring. But its the other people around them that was hitting shots. I think they have 4 other players in double digits beside KG and PP. For the Raptors to beat a team like Boston you need TJ. Randou was killing Jose yesterday. He was a bit too quick for Jose and that's were we need, the Little Engine TJ. If TJ was available the game would be a lot closer, if not a win for the dinos. I really thought the Raps would bring it yesterday considering how they have been playing the last few games, but Boston's D was just too much...One more game against them in Boston for retribution even though I doubt it. Lets hope TJ get his health back and can join the team on this road trip. I also believe we can go 5-2 on this road trip. Would love it, if we could payback PHX for that loss at home. raps4life baby.

The comments for RIBBLE should be from RAPS4LIFE

There's something very fake about the Celtics. Instead of building a team (see Spurs) they went out and bought the three best players they could find. Its seems to de-value all the blood sweat and tears teams such as Toronto have to go through to build a winning club.

After the 1st Quarter, I had a difficult time watching the game. I felt I was watching something that was of the inevitable.

I kinda bought into the Celts kool-aid pre season, but having watched a couple of their games, it really is incredible how good their D is! You knew the offence was going to come, but the D was a different story.

Todd - Mentoring as your suggesting for Bargs is a good idea and it's likely that the Raps are doing that - just don't know who their big man coach is.

Thoughts from the game:

- Raps need a full healthy contingent to keep up with the Celts. Hopefully by the time we run into them in the playoffs, we have learned about the team, our core group is in full strength and they are starting to feel the injury bug.

- why is Moon still starting? Why dont we try Bargnani instead for a couple of ganes? Moon is not getting to the rim or to the free throw line, and here Bargs is better long range so could open up the defense.

I think we missed someone else the raps missed yesterday (two people actually).
1. Garbo. He is the white oakley and he does bang around under the hoop. His toughness is sorely missing on this team right now.
2. Ray Allen. I know that sounds ridiculous but he is a defensive hole. Tony Allen actually makes the Celtics a better defensive team and a tougher matchup for Toronto. Sure Allen will get his points but he gives up a lot of points as well.
To OneandDone - no offense but it sounds a little like sour grapes to complain that Boston was willing to live in Salary Cap hell to build a winner. If Toronto was willing to do the same, and added say bryant and J. Oneal, would you compalin?
The Celts are a good team but I am still not worried because Doc Rivers is still there coach. If I recall correctly Allen was logging the most minutes of the three and he is already out. With Pierce and Garnett logging ridiculous minutes, how long until one of them goes down too and what will they look like then?

ONEANDDONE...I totally agree with you. It's not fair the way the team was put together, they have not paid their dues..I know those 3 players have paid there dues in the league, but it just does not seem right..They will have a hard time getting fans outside of Boston...Back to the Raps..I think BC should pick up Ruben Patterson for a downlow banger. ..I don't know who they will waive to get him though...DMart maybe but the Raps seems to like DMart as a 3rd pt guard. What do you think?

Haven't posted for a while, but yesterday's game moved me to do so.

The Celtics did a great job of getting up on the perimeter guys and forcing them to put it on the floor, something the majority of our perimeter players don't like to do. Having KG and Perkins in the paint meant alot of long range, contested 2's which is something that no teams want to end up with. Not surprisingly, we shot a low percentage as a result.

While the numbers may have looked fairly even at the end, Paul Pierce absolutely crushed Jamario Moon in their matchup. Pierce is a guy that likes contact so when he faces a guy that clearly hasn't adjusted to the physicality of the NBA (such as Moon), he eats him up. I thought Delfino did a decent job on him and I would have liked to see Joey Graham get a little time against him as well.

Calderon got killed by Rondo because he wouldn't move off of him. Rondo is way more effective when he can get into the lane, and he's not a very good shooter, so you lay off of him, make him beat you, not one of the other guys.

The last few games have shown something that I think many of us knew already.....that this team is SOFT. I'm not saying that you go out there and swing at somebody, but an "inadvertant" elbow or a hard foul can send the appropriate message. If it means losing a guy for a game, so be it. It will benefit us in the long run because it is becoming apparent that teams perceive us as soft, and are going to start taking more liberties as a result. Did anyone read the article on TrueHoop where Lebron was watching TJ's injury? I suspect his response was the same as most everybody else's in the league. Somebody should have gotten in Al Horford's face when he hit TJ (accident or not), somebody should have gotten in Eddie Jones' face and somebody should have gotten in Paul Pierce's face when he pushed Delfino on Sunday. That was blatent disrespect shown to a Raptor, and his teammates should have taken exception to that. The Celtics pretty much bullied us yesterday, and that should be unacceptable to everyone on that team.

Bargnani looks totally lost out there right now, and it's killing the team. 12 minutes, 1 rebound, no points, and 2 turnovers....not very productive. They need to make him a pet project to get back into rhythm, because in the long run, this franchise will need Andrea Bargnani to be a championship contender.

Jeff, great find!

Couldn't agree more with LJ.

Here is the text:

http://blogs.clevescene.com/cnotes/2007/12/crank_that_coup_with_andy_back.php

Lastly, when TVs showed ESPN’s footage of Atlanta’s Al Horford walloping Toronto’s T.J. Ford in the face, the Cavs in the locker room were indignant. Ford, who missed the 2004-05 season with neck problems, was carted from the court on a stretcher. The players speculated that his career is over. LeBron, God bless him, speculated that somebody shoulda got his ass beat.

"Toronto didn’t fight?" he said, watching the ugly replay. "Nobody on Toronto did nothing? That crazy."

I was torn between watching the Packers and the Raptors. With the Raps being man-handled, I decided to watch every Green Bay possesions instead. Great to see Brett getting the passing mark.
Back to the Raptors, I agree that we need a tough guy to protect our players. As for Bargs, I agree that we should start him instead of Moon, who's really doing nothing. By the way Graham, looked OK during garbage time.

Thanks for the quote props, Franchise. Sorry about your flight delay/cancellation; you weren't the only one in the GTA who got screwed.

Notes:

1. To answer Rt, I read somewhere (I forget where) that Alex English is the Big Man assistant coach, Triano focuses on the Swingmen and Mike Evans (the halftime interview guy) works with the Guards. Obviously, English (both the language and the coach) is not getting through to Bargs, so maybe Maurizio needs to put on some stilts or something.

2. As for the road trip, the Clips, Trailblazers (especially if Aldridge remains out) and Sonics are all pretty weak, but the last four games will be very tough, especially with all the back-to-backs. Given the Raptors' current stage of their development, and with TJ out, I think a 3-out-of-7 is unfortunately more likely and understandable.

3. Until this year, Doc Rivers got the same criticisms as Smitch, that of being a "players coach" who is clueless about X's-and-O's, i.e. plays out of time-outs. And now he's a coaching genius? Let's face it, put veteran, playoff-battle-tested, motivated-on-D players on the floor, and the entire equation changes.

Honestly, OnenandDone and Raps4Life, what Ainge pulled off was genius; you have to respect what he did. It's hardly like the Yankees buying high-salaried players in a cap-less league; Ainge simply played the system (and McFail's BabCOCK-ness) to perfection, so props to the former Blue Jays second baseman. I for one, will be happy if KG, P2 and Jesus win it all, because they are all upstanding guys who suffered on horribly-managed teams for many years, and, most importantly, they don't coast.

Last week I and others posted that someone should have done something (ANYTHING) when TJ got whacked by Horford. Many posters on this site rebuked such comments as being "what’s wrong with sports today". Well, well, what have we seen in the last week since the TJ incident? We’ve seen Dmart get pimp slapped in the face by Eddie Jones (AT HOME!!), and in the Celtics game alone, Delfino get pushed around (literally) by Paul Pierce, Calderone get laid out at the top of the key and the whole Raptors team bullied by a veteran Celtics squad. Standing up for your teammates does not make you a knucklehead. No matter what people say, basketball is a physical sport but you must use physicality properly. Tough defence, hard screens, boxing out, not backing down and standing up for your teammates does not lead to brawls. What it does do is show maturity, solidarity with your teammates and inspires confidence and resolve. I am not surprised that this team is lacking in this department simply because they are young team. I posted yesterday that this will come with time and roster moves are not absolutely necessary. However, after further reflection, it may not be a bad idea to get a vet in here to help lead the way. The problem is, these types of players are few and far between.

Agree with you JJ - sucks that the Celtics go from nothing to something major but it's tough to get mad at Ainge for taking advantage of a) a team's dire straits (Seattle selling off assets) and b) a team's bad management decisions (Minny.)

Just sort of a tough pill to swallow as prior to the summer it looked like Toronto was going to be top of the Atlantic for a while.

Couple articles from the Star addressing the Raptors toughness for those who haven't already seen them:

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/286191

http://www.thestar.com/Sports/article/285225

And on another note - I never TOTALLY trust Real GM but this is now on ESPN as well and worth the read even if it's just for entertainment purposes:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3156390

Yes, it's hard to have a rivalry with another team that continually pounds you into submission.

Sometimes it seems like KG is in Bosh's head with the Mitchell connection, like "Come on Chris you can be as good as Kevin one day if you try really hard and take a million shots every day and blah, blah , blah..."

Damn those Celtic's are street man....wanna reach through my TV and slap Rondo.. Tony "YO" Allen, Perkins, Eddie "screw Toronto" House....WTF ...I hate this team...All their subs strut around like they're badass everywhere they go this year....wavin their towels after every play...ok I'm done.

Call me crazy I want them in the Playoffs. (If we can get some new plays by then....no plays run for Kapono after huge game?)

well, not only am I a true believer now (in the celtics) something else happened to me yesterday after watching the raps get beat down.

but first let me say that even though I think the celts are pretty dang good, like anthony parker said yesterday, I don't think they're invincible.

but what really moved me yesterday was how much I wanted tj out there. I was and still am ALL about calderon, but I'm starting to see what makes tj the bryan colangelo kind of guy.

jose is fantastic, but his biggest strength is becoming his biggest weakness in my opinion: he doesn't take chances. there's no risk to his game. countless times he came running down the court only to slow right down to let everyone catch up and run the half court. which is fine and considered and smart most of the time, but sometimes I wished he would have looked to moon for a back door cut, or dunk. something different.

also, tj is obviously ridiculously faster. rando would not have gotten to the rim so easily so many times on his watch. he also would have destroyed him at the other end. (which he did that first game a while back.)

in short, tj does a lot of stupid stuff but he's taking risks.

now this isn't a tj vs. jose thing. I still think they're both incredibly talented and we as fans should be so lucky to have both of them to watch.

I'm just now starting to see the intangibles tj brings to the table, and why the brain trust is probably counting on him to be the all-star.

I say they win 4 of the next 7. What's the prize if I'm right?

I'd be happy to see Bargs start as the 3, but having said that, A. Moon isn't exactly doing nothing - he had 13 against Celts, and B. Aside from this very frustrating game against an amazing defensive force, Raps have been playing quite well lately with Moon starting, so maybe it's not worth fixing what ain't broken? On the other hand, this team needs to figure out Bargs' role.