3 In the Key – Toronto Raptors Game-Day Preview vs. Hawks

no way in hell Smith comes here...he would be the second option behind bosh and no way his ego can handle that.

I agree with Dikweed. Smith is too immature and too selfish a player. He can't get his teammates to follow him in Atlanta how would he do it here? BC would never bring that kind of locker room poison to TO.

Can you imagine Smith pulling that crying about touches crap with Smitch? Sam may not be an x's and o's guru but he's a tough coach. He didn't take it from Vince and he sure as hell wouldn't take it from Josh "I've never even won a playoff series" Smith. I'd love to see the locker room scuffle they'd get into!

Not saying that Josh Smith isn't a great talent. He's one of THE best players one on one in the NBA today. Too bad for him that basketball is a team sport.

The Raps have the rights to a point guard in Europe who may be ready next year as a back up. It would be nice if they could create a trade to get a first round pick. The name that Franchise mentioned that sticks out is Sheldon Williams - he's a rebounding work horse. Too bad the Raps couldn't get him and a pick for a point guard and someone else.

Why trade Jose for a high draft pick with an "upside"? Jose is already great, with room to improve still. Why trade a sure thing?

We have to trade one because we can't have two guys who play the same position taking up that much cap space next year.

I'd prefer to keep both TJ and Jose. Howevwer, if I have to choose, I'd keep Jose. IMHO, point guards are like quarter backs, great athletes (like Michael Vick) are exciting and good but cannot be great.

I'm afraid if this team doesn't make a move this year, the team will take a step back next year.

I'm still on the bandwagon to move AP & Rasho (as much as I love them).

I think Boston has really proven that a few great players are better than a whole bunch of very good ones.

Just to clarify a couple of things:

1. Both Calderon and Delfino are restricted free agents so the Raptors have the right to match any offer that they get.

2. The Raptors do not have to clear cap space in order to keep Calderon and Delfino. The Raptors are already over the cap and can sign both (since they are the team's own free agents) without regard to the cap. But, if the team signs both then it will be close to paying the luxury tax - which may be a concern to the team's management.

In light of the new SF guys' performance(CD, JK, JM), I think the centre issue has become more pressing. Bargs is a pf. We had to have bosh at center for a long time, and it's just as frustrating watching bargs play out of his comfort zone.

Love rasho, but he's done soon, especially as a starter, and if he's already too creaky to come off the bench, it's time for a premeptive strike. Not sure who we could get though.

I never quite liked Josh Smith. Not to say that he isn't a great basketball player, but like others say i don't think he would be a good fit for this Raptors team.

As for trading one of the PGs, I think we should first ask ourselves what would we want in return: do we really need a SF now with Moon playing so well and the many decent options at the wings? If anything, I would like to see something more like Jose+Rasho's contract for a good center: Okafor, Kaman, Chandler... I don't know much about cap rules though, would that trade be even possible?

Axl I just saw your post the second after posting mine... great minds think alike! :-)

Well my first post of the season and I want to question ustation's thought about Boston. It is hard to deny that they are INSANELY better with the big 3, but I also want to point out a few things that stick in my head.

1. Boston - great record, (no injuries so far) just wait cuz if Rondo goes down or one of the big 3, that is going to make for a whole different team. Sure Rondo is managing the point, he doesn't have to touch it very often.

Raps - injuries, plenty of them. Last year we had the same kinda stuff happen and we then hit our stride when everyone was healthy. Give it time.

As for the trade rumours. Personally, I like TJ and Jose equally but I believe that Jose may have a bit more longevity for this league than TJ (injuries and lightweight) so if i had to pick one it would be Jose.

Hey BC can't be perfect. He's damn good at his job though.

Also, for my previous suggestion i'd rather trade TJ than Jose but I don't think the front office would do that

In my fantasy league there is this bonehead dude who is in last place, refuses to log in and improve his team. He screws up the whole league ‘cause he doesn’t respond to trade demands and upkeep his roster. I feel like the Atlanta Hawks are the bonehead team of the NBA due to their ownership status. The power struggle between the ownership partners in A-town has put a freeze on most roster moves as they can’t commit to salaries or approve trades. This coupled with bone-head drafting (If memory serves me they passed on Chris Paul for Marvin Williams) has to really piss off the handful of Hawks fans that are left. Therefore, I don’t think it is possible to make any deals with the Hawks.

I say if the Raps have to pay a luxury tax to keep Jose and TJ as our point guard then so be it...Look at the NYK they don't care aboout salary cap and luxury tax..you do what you have to do to keep your top players are get top players..Moon/Delfino will shut down Smith tonight. Orlando underestimated the Hawks last night..the Raps wont...raps4life baby.

Observer - yep as Bowie and BBall mentioned, it's going to be tough to keep both Jose and Delfino without getting into luxury tax range. Toronto is over the cap now so will have their full mid-level exception to throw at a player next year. But right now that doesn't look to be enough to pay even one of the two unless either decides to take a potential pay cut to stay with Toronto. That's not out of the question, but basically come trade deadline time, BC may need to get creative. That's why if he risks losing Calderon for nothing, he may look to trade for someone else with upside. He's done that before on unproven talent and scored big (Hump, Delfino, Moon etc) so it wouldn't surprise me to see him do it again.

Don't have a great feeling about tonight's game...sort of like the one I got reading your comment MAS about the guy in your fantasy league. That happened to me a few years back and it's unbelievably frustrating...good analogy though on the Hawks.

J-Smoove is so amazing in Fantasy because he excels in the more peripheral stats (blocks, steals and assists for a PF, which is why I'm #1 in my Fantasy league). To claim that he's a scrub for his team not making the post-season is absurd. The fact is, until this season, Atlanta has been rolling out Tyronn Lue as their starting PG and Shelden Williams as their C (who is a HOMELESS man's Antonio Davis; Atlanta totally reached for him in the draft). Give Smoove a solid PG and he would be as good as The Matrix if he isn't already (read: MAX contract, though he'll probably get one anyway).

But my previous paragraph implicitly suggested the MAJOR issue, and why, beyond Josh's immaturity, he's a bad fit for the Raptors. He is an NBA-protoype PURE POWER FORWARD, like Marion and like Kirilenko (not a PF/C, like Bosh and Boozer). Slotting him in SF like Moon (Smoove is a fair bit bigger than Moon at 6'9, 235, and you'll see this tonight) will result in a decline in his defensive stats and his happiness.

Besides, do the Raps want their best three players (Bosh, Bargs, Smoove) to play the same position? I don't think so, so unless we are starting to entertain trading one of the B's, let's scratch him off the list. I totally agree with Axl and Sergi that, unless Bargs changes his game to be a banger like Big Z (and why should he, his model should be Okur or, one can dream, Dirk or Sabonis), than looking for a Rasho-replacement is key. Too bad Hump is so undersized for the C position.

Franchise, interesting points. My take on Josh Smith: great athlete becoming a great player but let someone else throw a contract at him. Probably a better fit somewhere else (U.S and A), physical attributes aside.

I love our three incoming SF this year obviously, and SF situation in general. As mentioned above Delfino can also play different positions, I hope he sticks around.

Great points Fresh1, I agree.
I would like to see us keep both PG, but there will be some enticing deals out there. Calderon has been amazing this year though.

Future Center?
Raps definitely need more toughness. (i.e. Bargnani is not my definition of tough...no diss, I wanna see Il Mago shine here...if we can have toughness coming off the bench, fine.)

Interestingly, we discuss trades for the guy we are about to play. I would like to think that is not a preemptive strike against having to defend our inability to guard him/them. I don't care who plays there, we should have the mindset of beating them, not trading for them. Besides, regardless of the talent, the guy might be that dressing room cancer we do not want.
On to TJ/Jose story, I think that is best left to BC to handle. Personally, I would like them both on my team...

If the raps don't make any moves they will still continue to improve. Their core is built around Bargs, Bosh, Ford, Calderon and now maybe Delfino and Kopono. None of those guys are close to thirty...they'll continue to get better as they mature and as they play together more often.

I agree that Smith is a lockeroom cancer and I wouldn't want him on my team. However what about a package around another versatile swingman on the Hawks named Marvin Williams. In 35 minutes he's putting up 15.5 points, 6 rebounds, 2 assists. He also shoots 48% from the field and is under his rookie contract for this year and next. Plus he's a great team guy and won't cause the problems Smith does. His upside might not be as high (basically because he can't block shots like Smith) however the cost of getting him will be lower and he won't create problems.

Jose is restricted but he will cost about 7 million. Everytime TJ gets hurt its bad news for the Raptors because it just means its going to cost us more to keep him.

I don't we're going to be paying both our pg's 8 million each. Starter should be making more than a backup whomever the starter maybe. Perhaps a trade happens and if we don't get a backup PG we make a run at someone like Duhon for the mid level next year?

Either way this is the best situation in the history of the raptors and I"m loving every minute of it.

TJ and JC CAN and SHOULD be kept.
1st the CAN - the raps have about $7.5 mill comming of their payroll with Dixon, JC and Matrin's contracts terminating, that should be enough to lock up JC.
2nd the SHOULD - Forderon put up what 20+ ppg and 14+ assists. To get that kind of production from a primier PG you'd have to fork over max $s - if you could find one. Plus you get two for the price of one which we know is a bonus in case of injury.
As for Carlos, BC can worry about that in the summer of'09 as the Raps can make a qualifying offer for '08-'09.
Problem solved, Josh can stay a distraction for the Hawks.

I think the raptors can afford to keep both Calderon and TJ. But more importantly I think they can't afford not to. Calderone's play over the last little while with TJ out is evidence of that. And while I agree that TJ being hurt and Calderon filling in admirably does increase Calderon market value, it also makes BC even more aware (assuming he wasn't already) of the need to keep both. And i think its evident that as good as TJ is Calderon is a better actual "PG". Even if they opted for a trade i doubt they would let him go to someone in the east.

Every consistently good team that wins year after year has a few decently paid players coming off the bench. It's only a bad move if those players don't produce as expected. I don't see that as the case for either Calderon or Delfino. Nesterovic's money comes off the books soon, so does Juan's and I expect that Joey will get traded for picks. Also I don't think Baston's money is gauranteed(not sure). Anyhow between those players there should be enough to pay these two some decent coin. We may have over paid Kapono's services though when you consider his contribution to date.

you are really overvaluing smith. look at his shooting %, 3 pt %, ft % and turnovers throughout his career. the blocks are flashy but he is not type of player who makes a team better.

I think Jose and TJ will be back next year, but if you want to trade with the hawks, Calderon for Josh Childress is the type of trade both teams should like.

Yikes, horrible hit on TJ. What scares me most is you didn't see much movement from his hands while on the stretcher. Hope it's nothing kid.

I did not see the foul, (will try to get the replay)but if Horford got hit with a flagrant, and TJ misses the year, Horford GONE. Period.

It reminds me of Bertuzzi on Moore. Same size differential too. Makes me sick. Make an example of this guy, and protect little guys who play ball. Sick. At the end of game, too, the Hawks were going to lose. Just a revenge play on the top scorer for the Raps. Sick.

Oh yeah, and feeling bad for bringing this up, but Charlie Rosen named his "All Loser" team and he included TJ. Also included are Dirk, VC, Chris Webber, Steve Francis, Peja and Isiah.

How TJ gets on that list having only 4 years of play? Bah!

http://msn.foxsports.com/nba/story/7538628

The hit on TJ was just sickening. And looking at Al Horford, I am sure the kid meant no harm but there has to be some punishment for that type of foul. There is no room in the game for that. Hopefully all is well with TJ. Perhaps people stop "trading" him now.

Can't believe I was stupid enough to actually defend this guy couple months ago.

Rosen could not even tie his shoe laces, much less play b-ball.

Dirk a loser? Huh? Chris Webber? TJ? These guys play pretty hard, from what I have seen.

Yeah, Stephen Marbury not on that list, eh? And he doesn't like referees. Yeah, I know this type...

Great breakdown analysis as always!

I was about to weigh in on the whole trade a PG debate but I think I'll take a different track.

Hope TJ's alright. I know as a fan I can get so caught up in a player's style of play that I kinda lose sight of the human aspect.

TJ's a fast guy and up until now he's known no other speed then full throttle.

Are his turnovers frustrating, no question.

But he's making a concerted to pick his spots better and I'm gonna try and give him some more slack until he strikes the right balance.

More then anything, when I see him driving the lane, I see someone with alot of heart.
Given that scary spinal injury he suffered in Milwaukee (and the ones after it), he still plays the game the same way.

We've seen players turn jumpshooter for alot less (see Carter, Vince), regardless of what effect that has on the team.

Scary stuff on TJ...hopefully by the time we recap tomorrow morning we'll have the full story on his health. Encouraging to hear Parker say that he was moving his extremities and was concious.

Rosen is useless...he and Marty York were seperated at birth...

that was a nasty foul but i dont think horford warrants any further punishment...u could tell after the fact that he was upset at what he just did...regardless you gotta feel for tj and hope hes ok

but at the same time, since he is always going "full throttle" and hes so small and fast, hes gonna continue to get hurt in situations like that...and in his tenure in the NBA he has been very injury prone, anotehr factor that should be discussed when talking about the pg trade debate

We had 2 ends of the spectrum tonight, Ford, who cant seem to stay on the court and away from injuries...and calderon who u cant keep off the court, he dislocated his finger and came back 5 minutes later.

In the end tho, you gotta feel for TJ who gives 110% all the time, but is just a fragile and injury prone little guy. Hope hes ok tho

Scary injury. I don't care whether you're a fan of TJ or not, you had to feel for the guy as he lay there motionless on the court. I hope its nothing too serious.

I loved how Sam came running on to the court in support of TJ. If the players aren't going to step up whenever one of there teammates get's pasted, may as well be the coach. Way to step up Sam!

Best TJ update so far from TSN:

http://tsn.ca/nba/news_story/?ID=224975&hubname=

(Starchoice is down due to snowstorm, so no RAPS TV tonight for me, maybe I should call and wait on hold in their 60 minute queue...oh well still better than giving more cash to Bell the worst company ever)

Bigd says "and in his tenure in the NBA he has been very injury prone, anotehr factor that should be discussed when talking about the pg trade debate"

Nice to see somebody else have my concerns!

Hope TJ is alright!

Look at the results of the PG play for the Raptors in the last 2 wins and tell me what idiot would trade either of them or let Calderon go as a FA.
Colangelo is not an idiot !!!

TJ get well soon!!!

Hope TJ is good and well. I wish him a speedy recovery...

on a sidenote:
Matt Bonner: 25 points, 17 boards.

Seriously, when I saw that stat line I thought to myself "Duncan's back already?" Then the red rocket's name came up beside those stats. I had to quadruple check the name to see if my eyes were deceiving me. Bravo Mr. Bonner. Too bad y'all lost though...

I dont think that BC or anyone for that manner would of thought that Jose would of turned out the way he has.(enough with the trade talk already)It's times like these ,that you can apreciate having both ...Just prior to getting hammered,I had texted my son saying...I guess he has all those points...check out his assists,and dont tell me that no one was open...When you see an athlete laying out on the floor ,it sure puts things in perspective.TJ get well soon.In closing, props to Sam for sticking up for his boy...now when are the rest of the dinos going to grow a set...

Ford's injury: To be fair to Horford, TJ fooled him (which is what he is suppose to do) and got whacked as a result of that. The Flagrant Foul type 2 was more to keep everyone from getting upset and potentially starting a fight as my understanding of the type 2 is that intent injure comes into play and I think we can all agree that it wasn't the case. As for Sam coming to stand up for TJ, it isn't that the players didnt want to stand up for him but the NBA has cracked down so much on the players that now it seems only coaches can charge the court in those situations.
If Toronto is looking to deal Calderon to Atlanta, I have a much better suggestion for them. Instead of smith, they should go for Horford. Not sure if he can play centre but he looks like he is going to be good and if you have Atlanta throw in Acie Law for someone else on the Raps they will have a potential backup back in the fold.

Get well real soon TJ.