Tip In, Toronto Raptors Post Game: One Man Gang

Right on the money !!!! I dont think anyone is dogging T.J....just do your job.Why does he continue to hand off the ball to Rasho,when you know dammed well he will bobble the ball nine times out of ten.In all fairness Hump,Moon and Harper were the only guys that came out....Bargs and Calderon was up? Another night for Garbo on the pine.I hope that turns around soon,because ,I think the only chance we have of resigning Jose is if Jorge is still in the picture .Great comment ,introduce T.J. to his teammates.Terrible outings from our All Star and want to be All Star ...Jose's nose was out of joint...not even on the all star voting ballot,what up with that ?...there is hope,but we were out coached from the get go.Hey here is a thought,T.J lets run that play that you do whatever you want to do...if that's the case then Kap is the most expensive decoy in the league...Indiana ..lets hope the boys come out to play.

it's hard not to hate on the 'little engine' after games like these. at least now I know it's coming. you could see it building, especially after jose got the quick hook for messing up the 3 on 1, you could tell tj had it in his mind that he was going to save the day.

bargs looked terrible. he's killing me in my fantasy league.

I like to think that Garbo could have come in and got that ball moving with the second unit. But you need humps rebounding at the 4 and moon has been so great altering shots under the hoop, it'd be hard not to play him.

But really the raps could have had this game if cb4 would've gone to the hoop early and often. The problem was really they left him often and it must be hard to pass up an open jumper. You'd think after he missed the first seven or so he'd realize he couldn't risk it. Beside when defenses collapse on one player, other guys get open.
It's almost like blowout games just get ford and bosh thinking they can do no wrong.

How about bargnani? His move to the bench may have destroyed his confidence although they defended him well so hard to say at this point.

I was at the game last night as well and was stunned at how crappy our offence was, especially coming from Bosh and Bargnani. I think they had a combined 6 points going into the fourth quarter! Bargnani, 1-11? Against Utah's second unit? What's going on with this kid? Axl, you thought they were playing great defence on him? I thought he couldn't hit the side of a barn with laser pointer - could have sworn I was seeing the second coming of Darko Milicic.

That being said, I thought our defence was terrific through the first three quarters. Utah's the highest scoring team in the league and we kept them way under their average of 111 points. But, at the end of the game (i.e. the fourth quarter) we had a lot of miscues and Utah got a lot of second chance points off the offensive glass.

Horrible decision making by someone who wants to be considered an AllStar. And as you pointed out Howland, we all knew it was coming.
This was a game we let get away.I think our defence delivered and if there is any positive I see from our disappointing start to season it seems definsively, we are working much better as a unit. We kept the highest scoring team well below there average.
Missed open shots killed us. Although Bosh shied away from inside game in the first half, you can't criticize his shot selection. They were open looks - he just missed. Same with Bargnani - missed open looks.
The positives so far this season, improved defense, Delfino's play, Humphries rebounding presence and the emergence of Jamario Moon are being offset by the play off our key guys. Its time for CB4 to start earning his big time coin and for Bargnani to be more consistant.
Bosh, TJ, Bargnani and Calderon all stunk last night. Extremely disappointed by their performances.

As always, when selfish Ford decides to play by himself, Raptors lose!!!

Either of these 2 scenarios will have to occur for the Raptors to move into the elite of the NBA;

1) Ford matures or
2) Ford gets traded and Calderon takes over.

And another thing, what's up with Mitchell's substitution strategy? Most coaches substitute one or two players at a time, letting their starters rest while keeping other starters on the floor and rotate new guys in. THAT'S WHY IT'S CALLED A ROTATION. Mitchell seems fond of putting five new guys (who are all cold) into the game en masse and hoping for the best.

I was also not impressed with the play (or lack thereof) that Mitchell drew up at the end of the game when we were down by four with about 40 seconds left. Coming out of the time out, everyone was disorganized, no one got free of their man and we wasted about half the shot-clock until TJ jacked up a three which luckily went in - I couldn't help compare that to the play Boston drew up for Ray Allen when we were playing them in overtime.

I was extremely disappointed at TJ's immaturity in trying to one-up Williams. I also agree that Bargs' confidence is shot after being moved into the second unit. A terrible game that we should have won.

What really baffles me most with this game was the lack of leadership and execution on the floor particularly near the end of the game. One thing I noticed with the final possession was the 20 sec timeout which Toronto could of burned. What I didn't get was why Mitchell didn't call a t/o to draft up a play. He put his sharpshooters on the court but neither of them even touched the rock. I understand that they were trying to push the ball up quickly so that the defense doesn't set but c'mon this team needs to start executing better or else this will be a long frustrating season for Raptors fan.

Sam is a master motivator but a bad X's and O's coach. Either he drew up a real crappy play or TJ decided to be the hero instead of passing it to a hotter 3pt shooter than himself. In which case he needs to get a good chewing out.

Poor play calling, poor substitution patterns, after 3/4 years as a head coach? Sam needs help if this team is to take it to another level. If I can figure that out I am sure BC is on the case to find a qualified assistant coach.

It will take this team another month to start clicking with the new players and Sam needs to settle on a real rotation. I predict that they are 8-8 heading into December.

I like Moon's game. Starting SF found! Now can the team find someone who has a decent post game? No offense to Rasho's defense but if he misses another shot within 6 foot range I'm gonna shoot the TV.

Here's proof that selfish Ford does not get it. A quote on today's Star "I probably could have gone and got a two, but I'll live with the decision that I decided to shoot a three," Ford said. "Just came up short".

The guy is a selfish moron!!!

Once again my focus is going to be on Bosh. As I've stated before, as Bosh goes, so do the Raps. I'm not sure if it's because of a physical injury to Chris that's preventing him from being the aggressive drive first PF, or he's getting lazy. I'm more inclind to believe to prior. I think he's plantars is probably worse than it is. No real evidence other than speculations, but his stats just don't make sense.

Anyways, my man Parker (whom I still love) is getting off scott free yet again. How many times did he lose his man on the backdoor cutters, or plays after a time-out. I only saw the 2nd half, and caught my self yelling at the screen at Parker to find his man.

Yes it's always easy to blame the driver (in this case TJ - the little engine - or any other car reference you care to insert here), and he had a terrible game. But at the end, it was the car, not the driver. Last night he was driving a Russian Lada at the Talledega.

I have a few questions- not sarcastic - would really like to know.
Why do the raptors need to carry 15 players?
Why would you pay millions for players that don't dress.
Wouldn't it be smart to trade Garbo, Graham and Basten for future draft picks and go with 12?
Just would like to understand the bussiness side
Anybody?

To be fair to Sam if you listen to his post game comments, Sam took the blame for TJ's last second play. Sam said you would think that you would run a play and try and get a quick 2. But we decided that a 3 would be better at that point. U can clearly see that he was upset with TJ's decision but understand that is point gaurd is a young player and trashing him in public is not the right thing to do...which is very classy...I hope Rasho is OK..I would move Bosh to Centre and start Garbo at PF for our next game against the Pacers...we need Garbo in the line up, he is a very good passer and there will be no let up on the defensive end either...Why Bosh wasn't taking the rock to Carlos early in the game is beyond me...There is no PF in the league that can consistently stop Bosh but I don't think he realizes that as yet, I forget Bosh also is a young player, What is he 24...Don't worry Raps fans we are still 4th in the East...Raps4life...NO Fear.

To be fair, in the post-game interview, Sam said he expected his team to go for a 2, foul, and then call a timeout, since there was still 17 seconds left. That seems reasonable to me, since they only had 1 left.

You could also tell he was far from impressed with TJ's little performance at the end of the game. I've been watching basketball a long time, and that was one of the more ridiculous things I've ever seen a player attempt. The only player he even looked at was Humphries, and that was only because he had to get rid of the ball.

Why aren't more plays drawn up to free Kap to shoot! Of course the last play should have been one of them, but through the entire game as well, the guy could light it up! It just seems that he's stuck in the offense, usually in the corner, and never gets the ball in free situations.
TJ was embarassing at the end. You think Jose would have gotten away as lightly with doing that !?

Great breakdown - I couldn't agree more with your analysis. It seems like the Raps have major issues with spacing. TJ always seems to be running into one of his bigs or passing into traffic. The floor just looks so crowded when the Raps are on offense. On the defensive side, there seem to be these huge gaps and lanes for the opposition. Why is that? Is it a coaching thing? Is TJ moving too much with the ball? One other thing - I believe that Parker is the x-factor on this team. If he's not getting his touches (quality ones, not forced passes in traffic) then the Raps' offense and scoring breaks down. I think we saw that in the playoffs last year.

Lots of great comments as usual...

I like the starting rotation now, but I agree that the second unit "hockey line change" isn't necessary. Last night it still looked to me like Sam was trying to get minutes for players, rather than use them in the right situations.

I think it's going to take a while to figure out the rotations this year just because Sam's got so many players who are essentially the same skill level.

The tough thing is Kapono...I don't even think he should have played last night but every so often he'll hit a sweet shot (that one he hit off the two-man game with Humphries) that makes you realize why we paid him what we did and it's a giant tease. But like some of you had said, where's Garbo in all of this? And now with Moon's play it just means that Jorge, along with Dixon, may never see the court again.

This gets to what you were asking about RT - the Raptors don't have to carry 15 players, in fact many teams in the league carry only 14 on purpose. So yes, a trade to clear some room might make sense...but who would you trade for? I took a look around the NBA prior to last night's game and who would you even want if you were the Raptors? Artest? Some of the teams who were supposed to be terrible this year and perhaps therefore looking to deal haven't (Clippers, Blazers, Pacers.) So not sure they'd be willing to part with anyone on their roster at this point.

Finally, TJ. As I expected, Sam took the high road which is the right thing to do, and hopefully TJ learns from this. The whole team kept making bad decisions with the ball last night except perhaps Moon so it was certainly contagious. But in that definitive play, you just gotta get more from your floor general in crunch time...

Raps4Life
"There is no PF in the league that can consistently stop Bosh but I don't think he realizes that as yet"

Not true, as I posted previously, Bosh is shooting a horrible 35% from in the paint and getting blocked 23% of the time. Which leads me to think something is physically wrong with him.

Your summarization of the game was top notch as usual.
Howland, I had to laugh when your friend accurately predicted what would happen when TJ Ford was shown up by Devon Williams. The TJ show was quite exasperating.

Why does it take so long for that light to switch on for Bosh? Unfortunately, he’s our only inside presence yet he continues to take jump shots over higher percentage drives to the bucket when team offence is sputtering.

How long did it take for Dirk Nowitzki’s game to round into shape? Wanted some idea as to how long I’m going have to wait for Bargnani.

I can’t believe that not playing Garbojosa will have a direct impact on whether Calderon signs with Raps at the end of season. Just like I don’t believe that management holds a grudge against him. They are not the Knicks.

too add..

Bosh was taking 30% of his shots in the paint last year, at 55% and only getting blocked 14% of the time.
And the year before he was still making 50% of his shots from inside the paint.

Take away the 8 or so points Utah got out of in-bound plays well implemented by Sloan, and perfectly executed by the Jazz, Raps win. You could say this about so many small attributes of this game that made Mitchell look like a high-school basketball coach out there. Seriously, do the Raps have a play book? I am by no means a basketball expert, I just follow the NBA very closely. But to argue that we are not out-coached on a regular basis seems ludacris to me. The thought of 3 years of this is unbearable, Bosh's prime will be wasted, and Bargs will never reach his potential. The play of many players, including the aforementioned Bosh and Ford, had plenty to do with this loss, but Sam and his staff are ultimately responsible for, in this case, riding Bosh to stop settling for jumpers which he is not hitting, and dealing with Ford's personal grudge against Williams.

I love Chris Bosh, but he has yet to really show that he has that warrior mentality. Case and point, last year's playoffs (save for a few glimpses in the last couple of games), last night's game against Utah (and Boozer) and the game against the Celts. Garnett on the other hand, commands the ball and does his work in the paint (pure warrior). I also disagree with this whole "he is still young" argument. He has been in this league for quite a few years now, and IS considered a veteran and leader. He shows signs at times of what he is capable of, but not on a consistent basis. You signed the big contract; now play up to the big contract.

TJ TJ TJ, what can I say? His selfishness last night was very difficult to swallow. In the preseason, the offence had incredible flow, which was a direct result of TJ releasing the rock and getting EVERYONE involved. I believe, that he is the reason that Kapono's game has been non-existent. He only passes him the rock when Kapono comes back to help out, and usually Kapono is being covered by his man at that point and pretty much has to dish it right back to TJ, eliminating any long-range threat that Jason could pose. He is being used ineffectively; therefore we are seeing insufficient results. I noticed this last year with TJ and Bargs as well (which many here have also commented on).

I also don’t fault Sam for TJ’s attempt at last-second heroics. I was positive that they would go for an easy two and try to extend the game. If there was no open lane, then we dish it off to Parker or Kapono and hope for the best...this was not the case last night.

Sloan is one of the best coaches alltime, better than Sam and probably better than all but one or two still coaching.I admit that. Comparing Sam to Sloan is unfair. Blaming this loss on coaching is ridiculous. By that logic Utah should finish with 75 + wins. Right? Because good coaching wins? Right?
We missed open looks. TJ screwed up at the end. If he would of sunk that shot what would we now be discussing.
I'm curious to see how Sam deals with TJ. He doesn't want to discourage him and have him afraid to take that big shot. Next close game should TJ be on the bench for final minutes? Me I don't know? Taking the blame is the coaches reponsibility and I give Sam credit for that.
Four of our key players stunk the joint out last night. Blaming this loss on Sam(or any loss)has always been the norm for some and unfortunately, will always be the norm.

Good coaching may not always win, but bad coaching sure can lose.

calderon didn't exactly sizzle either. between the two of them they shot 8 for 23, got 8 assists and 6 turnovers. not the output you expect from these two.

a twelve man rotation would be too risky, the guys would get exhausted and injured.

Tough loss against a better team. Here's a few thoughts:

On T.J.: Horrendous last possession. It was obvious he had a mano-a-mano thing going on with Williams, like the Coach said. T.J. is still immature, thats obvious, but I put most of the blame on Mitchell. Has he ever reprimanded T.J. for doing this one-on-one crap?

On Garbajosa: No way Moon should be in the starting line up; Garbo should. How come no one seems to think inserting Moon over Garbajosa is very disrespectful Jorge. There is no question in my mind that Jorge has deserved the spot, by his play last year. How exactly did Moon deserved the spot? He had couple of good games? Please, thats not good enough. Jorge had a fantastic rookie season, but then he got injured. He deserved an opportunity to reclaim his spot after working so hard on an incredible comeback. But Mitchell saw fit to insert first Kapono and now Moon. Jorge has played well in limited time and I think we would be back to his old self with a few games under his belt. Remember, Garbo is an excellent rebounder, he moves the ball well and he can hit the outside shot even more consistently than Moon. Moon would be an excellent off-the-bench guy, but in current situatuion, we're wasting the great talent of Jorge Garbajosa.

T.J.'s performance at the end was embarrasing, no question about it. Charley Rosen commented on the game this morning on FoxSports.com. He flat out said in reference to T.J., "This guy is not a winner." That worries me. Though, I do recall occasions when he's won us a game or two (Clippers game last year). I'm starting to wonder about his mental game. Being young is fine, but young guards like Deron Williams, C-Paul, Heinrich, they don't play like that. I'm afraid that T.J. is headed down the career path of a Nate Robinson or even a Jason White Chocolate Williams (who was not the reason why Miami won a ring). $10 game, 10 cent minds. Anyway, long story short, I see calderon being a better option long term for this team.

Another thing, I haven't seen much of his game, but I do pay attention to the stats, does anyone see similarities between Jamario Moon and Danny Granger. And if so, could this have been Colangelo's way of making up for Babcock's mistake in drafting Joey ahead of Granger. I mean, I'm sure that's not on Colangelo's mind, but it looks to me like Moon is going to take all of Joey's minutes from here on out, and with Moon's ability to alter shots, elevate at the rim and shoot from long distance, haven't we basically picked up a Danny Granger kind of player (albeit one who is several years older than Granger) to replace Joey?

Anyway, Utah is a great team with one of the best coaches in the history of the sport. We played poorly and still had a chance to win that game. All is not lost with that performance. Also, aside from Boston, no one is running away with the East at this point.

I could not get past what selfish Ford did last night; this guy does not only disrespect the paying fans with his play but moreso his teammates. How in the heck in his little mind does he think that only himself is capable of winning ballgames? There were 2 better shooters on the floor with him and he decides to attempt a 3 despite being closely guarded. And his reactions and responses after the game just threw any kind of mulligan I have for the guy. Definitely not a winner!!!

I urge all Raptor fans who are going to Friday's game to show their displeasure of TJ Ford's play by booing him during the intro. This might be the only way to let him understand that he is just part of the Raptors and that he is not "THE" Raptors.

Am encouraged by what I see on the defensive end throughout this young season. We provided Boston with their only real challenge this year and last night kept a good offensive team in check. The positives are there. This team will be OK.
All the critics out there. How about a shout out for our noticeable improvement on defence. If Sam gets blame for our offence, lets give some love for our defence. Surely some things have gone good? Anything nice to say?

Adam says, "I urge all Raptor fans who are going to Friday's game to show their displeasure of TJ Ford's play by booing him during the intro."

You, sir, are an imbecile. You boo players when they are not giving any effort or slumming, not when they have lapses of judgment. I doubt Marbury is getting booed in NY, but you would boo your starting PG when he is putting up career high assists (8.1), career high shooting % (47%) and the team is .500?

Agreed. The last thing that any fan should be doing is booing TJ Ford. Despite the critique in the post (I'm a little more calm now) I still have faith in Ford. He is a good option at the end of games, his decision making just needs a little more, shall we say, "refinement".

I didn't touch on the D in the re-cap but the Raps D has been much better. Despite Bosh's trouble on the offensive end he is starting to become more of a defensive force.

Rubik the Raptors would not be a .500 team if Ford plays the point the way it is meant to be played.

You are the imbecile, boy!!!

If Sam wanted to go for a 2 or wanted to run a certain play, why didn't he tell this to TJ while the Jazz were at the line. They shouldn't have to call a timeout to run a play, surely Sam could have went deep into his playbook to pull out a second play (1 being the pick and pop/roll). As others have already said Sam was severly outcoached last night. Jazz scored out of timeouts and off inbounds plays, the Raps never do. yes Sloan is a great coach but we all said the same about Lawrence Frank last playoffs.
What's the raptors no longer moving the ball? I could count on one hand the amount of times they swung the ball around the perimeter last night.

If Sam wanted to go for a 2 or wanted to run a certain play, why didn't he tell this to TJ while the Jazz were at the line. They shouldn't have to call a timeout to run a play, surely Sam could have went deep into his playbook to pull out a second play (1 being the pick and pop/roll). As others have already said Sam was severly outcoached last night. Jazz scored out of timeouts and off inbounds plays, the Raps never do. yes Sloan is a great coach but we all said the same about Lawrence Frank last playoffs.
What's the raptors no longer moving the ball? I could count on one hand the amount of times they swung the ball around the perimeter last night.

Wow !!! I thought we were only in game 8 of the season.
Get off T.J's back I'm sure its hurting him right about now. He played a pretty good game 13pt 5rpd 8ast 2stl 3to . Every player in a game is going to make 2 0r 3 bad decisions during the game .He jacked up a bad shot so what !! He certianly isn't Mike James.. As my Mom says "If you can't say anything nice don't saying anything at all"

CG
I see no reference of Sam being "severely outcoached". The usual blame, yes, but not your reference.

How many open shots did we miss. Once again, thats why we lost!
Bet your a Leaf "fan" as well.
Sure sound like one.

Tinman, I'm not hating on the raptors, just Sam. Sounds like you're buying Sam's favorite line of "we just missed shots". The opponent wants Bosh shooting 18 footers, instead of driving. Jack said it last night, when the shots aren't falling you gotta go inside or drive. Once in a while you gotta get easy hoops off set-plays or smart cuts.

CG = Last night game was as simple as that. We just missed shots. No other way to see it, except for the Sam bashers.
An open CB4 at the top of the key - he's gotta take that shot. Surely you've seen the team play often enough to know thats usually money. Bargs wide open at the arc - gotta take that shot.
Jerry Sloan and the Utah Jazz have been masters of coming out of timeouts with quick baskets. They have done that against MJ's Bullss, Hakeem's Rockets and a slew of other teams since then. Is that how Mitchell got outcoached? If thats the case Sloan has outcoached a lot of the masters as well.
Say something positive about Sam. How do you feel our defence looks?iS Is it progressing? By accident or might coaching have a little to with it? Was Moon a good or bad call? Do you like his suits?

I like his proffessionalism in taking the heat off his pointguard. Pretty sure both he and TJ know it wasn't the right call to jack those threes. I see two possibilities:

1. Mitchell didn't have anything set up after the timeout. Just give the ball to TJ. (cuz by the way it turned out, they didn't even consider the other shooters on the floor)

2. Mitchel's command of his players is not as great as we all thought. In this scenario, Smitch actually drew up a play but TJ just decided to run his own play anyway. In this case, he can't control his point guard.

I don't think Smitch is a complete idiot and that his only option in mind was TJ jacking up threes ...so I'd like to think it's the latter. The truth is I'd rather have neither scenarios.

Bottom line is, TJ only had one thing in mind, to go for the three (seeing he attempted to do so 3 times in the span of 17 seconds). Whether that was Smitch's plan or whether it was just TJ being TJ, I'm not sure. I just don't know which of the scenarios I mentioned above to believe.

Aaron - just saw the lasr five minutes on gameinanhour, no doubt about it on the last possession it was the only thing on TJ's mind. The shot he got off actually wasn't that bad but the 10 seconds juggling the ball back and forth with Humphries was ugly.
Fact is, from what I've seen since TJ arrived, he seems to be one of our options on final plays. He might not be the first but its not unusual for a PG to create his own shot at the end of games.

Adam...this post is for intelligent Raptor fans. Please do not post any more ludicris comment such as the statement you made to boo TJ at Fridays game....your type of comment is best suited for the "your call post" on TSN where the Raps fans have no basketball IQ..rediculous. I seen every point gaurd in the league do things out of character in games...even JKidd and SNash so calm down and learn how to be a real Fan...I really feel for the Leafs....lol

Tinman:

"Fact is, from what I've seen since TJ arrived, he seems to be one of our options on final plays. He might not be the first but its not unusual for a PG to create his own shot at the end of games"

You are right. TJ has been one of our options during the dying seconds. But, I could live with that IF we were down by two and TJ attempted a higher percentage shot. At least that way, we know he was doing one of the things point guards are meant to do, breaking down the defense.

Or if we were down by three and he attempted a higher percentage two pointer for a quick basket then foul to stop the clock and plan on getting something done next possession.

If one of those was the plan, they sure, TJ was the option.

BUT, they were down by three and they didn't consider other better shooters if the plan was to tie the game right there and then.

If the plan was to stop the clock with a quick basket then stopping the clock through TJ, THOSE THREE POINTERS WEREN'T the options.

I have nothing against TJ being one of our options with dying seconds if he stays with his repertoire. But he is not exactly known to be a great three point shooter.

Tinman, to respond to your thoughts on my comments. How exactly does questioning the coaching abilities of Sam suggest that I think the Jazz should win 75 games because they have Sloan as their coach? I said he was out-coached last night. He was, plain and simple. We can all remember Lawrence Frank doing the same thing not so long ago. We did miss some open looks, you are correct. This is not Sam's fault, nor did I imply it was. However, the stagnance in the Raptor's offensive sets last night was not an uncommon sight. The lack of adjustments to the pick & rolls, backdoor cuts, set in bound plays etc, etc is also not new. These things are attributable to Sam. These things are his responsibility. I think he is a great motivator, and would be an excellent assistant coach, but he has not displayed the ability to out-maneuver other NBA coaches. Please also take a moment to think about some recent NBA championship teams. I'll wait. Hopefully names like Popovich, Riley, Brown, and Jackson went through your head. If you are admitting Sam is not of this calibre, why are we not finding someone who is? Why is mediocrity accepted in our coach? Are we looking to get knocked out in the first round every year, or do we want a real shot? Quality coaching does not guarantee any amount of wins, but it sure does improve the chances of winning close games.

Brandon- Are you comparing the talent on our Raptors to that of Reilly's Knicks or Lakers? Jackson's Bulls? Browns Piston's? Popovitch Spurs?
These coaches had no more respect than Sam does prior to them winning their championships - and I'll repeat a lot more talent and experience.
How many titles have the above one without an incredible roster?
Hope you get my point when you say Sam is not of their calibre - neither were they UNTIL they won, with much more talent and experience.
Jackson team is not in contention this year, Reilly Miami is a mess and Browns last coaching gig didn't go so hot. Did they forget how to coach? Or does having two or three superstars in their prime make a coach look good? Doc Rivers is looking like the ghost of Red Auerbach now.

Sam Bowie - I didn't say they played "great" defence on Bargnani, they just played him "well" by taking away the drive and closing out on his shots very quickly (that was the key). They even got a block on him. As a seven footer with a quick release, I can't recall another block on bargs.

Rubik - boo tj?? that's absurd. the game was lost before that last shot, which, incidently we all know he can make. Raps had a chance to tie it, but they never had control of this game the entire night.

at 38% shooting how can anyone argue with smitch explanation that they just missed some shots. sure, a bunch things contributed to that and maybe something could have been done, but raps missed a bunch of makeable shots.

btw, can anybody take away the pick and roll better than utah?

Ok, some well made and valid points. However, if we are going to go back and look at those coaches, lets do it from both perspectives. The success of the Lakers is constantly being attributed to Jackson being capable of incorporating Kobe and Shaq in the traingle offence. Great coach. Have the Piston's gone all the way since Brown left? Great coach. Did Brown make an incredibly poor decision to move to the Knicks with their insane GM and roster of duds? Great coach, big ego. And you mentioned the Heat and their early struggles this year. All I have to say on this issue is Wade. I will not waste anymore time with that one. But let's take a closer look at Riley's championship. Wade was obviously reason #1 for this. Which draft did he come into the league? Yes right, same one as Bosh. In the same amount of time, despite numerous injury bouts, he has blossomed into what almost anyone would describe as one of the top 5 players in the league under Riley. Great coach. And finally Popovich (this spelling is correct, just so you know). I am going to have to speculate a bit on this one, but are Parker and Ginobli the players they are without his system? Would Bowen get enough time on the floor with any other team to be the defensive machine he is? And finally, and most importantly (in terms of Bosh as a parallel), does Duncan ever become the fundamentals master he is without Popovich? Great coach. I realize none of these guys were great coaches until they had a chance to win. However the question you need to ask yourself is whether you really, truly believe Sam is ever going to accomplish anything similar to the quick list I have compiled above.

sorry rubik, meant 2 say adam in my last post

Bad aspects of the game:
TJ FORD
bargnani's horrible shooting performance with mostly wide open looks
Bosh's first 3 and half quarters

Bright spots:
Humphries all over the glass.
the raps only lost by 4 despite are two bigs playin like crap for most of the game. think about the game if bargs hit even half of those open looks he usually hits.
Parker had a solid game when he touched the ball.
two words: Super JaMario
another solid performance by the old rook....looking forward to more games like the last 2 from him...and a dunk comp!

So... what currenrt coach, do you think, is capable of joining your compiled list? And then list the differences between them and Sam.

Regarding Wade and Maimi - didn't Reilly fire someone to get on that coaching seat the year they one?I could of coached that team to the finals. And your omitting a motivated Shaquille O'Neal. Without Shaq no chance they would of won it.Do not underestimated how he elevated that team. I don't think he's capable of that kind of play anymore, so coumnt Miami out, Wade back or not, as a serious contender.
Tim Duncan is a better player than Bosh - no discussion. Always will be. No knock against CB4 but we are witnessing the greatest power forward ever. 4 years in college, consensus # 1 pick. No comparison.

You know, if I wasn't a working student, and was being paid by the Raptors to know names of guys who could combine the motivation and player relation skills of Sam with the b-ball IQ of a Stan Van Gundy type, I can assure you I would. That really is for BC to figure out. However, off the top of my head, guys I would have been pleased to see come in this past off-season: Rick Carlisle, Rick Adelman, or maybe even Byron Scott if it was possible.

You know, I should admit that I have really enjoyed this mental sparring match. I have been impressed by your replies, and it is nice to have an informed b-ball discussion. Ultimately, I guess we will just have to wait and see how it un-folds. I will always be a Rap fan, and respect Sam Mitchell the man. He has great integrity and defends his players. I may be wrong about him and to a certain extent, hope I am, because my team is contractually obligated to him for a while into the future.

So have I, Branden.
My 7 year old son was sick this morning so I took the day off work to stay home and probably have spent too much time on the internet today.
I get defensive when it comes to Mitchell because I really don't see anything wrong here. I don't consider him a fourth year coach because this team started over last season. I respect that BC gave him a chance to proove himself and in his first year with anything resembling a roster we won 47 games and the Atlantic Division. The improvements I see on the defensive side this early in the season reinforces my opinion.

You know, Tinman, I wish you could defend Sam without having to get personal, and issuing directives.

FYI, you seem to be in the minority as a Sam fan here. I actually have some support (about 4 or 5 other posters)when I criticized the coaching decisions last night. Please do not tell me to stop posting until I have something different to say. Marcia says the same thing, BTW, when she goes on about white guys not being able to play in the NBA. And as I recall, you defend her.

In fact, if you could get past the hate, you would see that I have "different" things to contribute.

First, I referred to the maturity of the players. That is a theme that is running throughout these posts. Case in point, "Bosh needs to start believing in himself." "TJ needs to mature"; I said both of these yesterday.

Second, I referred to Sam being a great motivator, and what that might mean to a team that has enough talent, just a crisis of confidence. Case in point, the comment where Bargs shooting 1-11 was probably more about what is going on his head than anything else.

Tinman, consistently, you have nothing good to say about my posts. Why should I listen to you when say I have nothing good to say about Sam? Read the above paragraph again, please: "Sam is a GOOD motivator".

As an aside, as boneheaded a move as TJ pulled, I can't bring myself to blame him, either. Don't know why. I think he IS a winner. Coming back from that injury took guts and a stubborn will to perservere. I think it is maturity, and that takes time. And coaching.

Gerry
Throughout last year you kept saying he wouldn't be back - YOU WERE WRONG. After every loss this year(just like last year; yawn) you blame him, reiterating that last year you said he was the wrong guy(which you were wrong about)! Too easy to call a game after its played.
Missing open jumpers was the reason we lost last night, not coaching.
How many wins do we have to get this year for you to change your mind? We've already lost 4 so does that make your answer 78? What do you think of our defensive play so far this year? Our rebounding? Moving in the right direction? Who gets credit for that?
And I do not agree that you are in the majority regarding our differing opinions on Sam.
You stated you live in Japan - how do you see the games? How do you base your opinion?

benjo says:, this is a game we are trying to win, this has nothing to do with respect it has to do with winning, Garbo has slowed since his accident he needs time to heal, are yhou telling me that garbo could do what Moon does, this is sport emotions does not come first winning comes first. We love Garbo but he needs time to heal.

Rubik I would not waste my time with this guy, because he does not understand that when you boo your team even if it is one guy it affects all the players, this is one of the reason a lot of players don't stay with the Raptors for long, relax if the ball had gone in everyone would have been happy

I just want to make one point:
Last year, the raps started 2-8. This year, 2 of the losses have been very tight games against deep playoff teams. With Indiana and Golden State up next, it's reasonable that the Raps will be at 5-5 or 6-4 at the 10 game mark. If that happens, they will be 3 or 4 games ahead of last year. Don't Panic!

I am tired of discussing this with you Tinman. You are always right. I am wrong. Yawn. Guess I have get a thicker skin and just ignore your personalization and the crits.

I watch / listen to the games as much as I can, but I also often work during the hours the games are played. Guess that means I am not entitled to an opinion, right?

Sam Bowie, diesel, Todd, dsl, Esteban, Franchise (minutes more than plays), Branden, benjo (on Garbo) - I said I can see some support with regards to comments which reflect a criticism of coaching. There you go. BTW, did you notice that you are basically the only one picking arguments with people? Why do you do that?

I did not say I was in the majority, I said you were in the minority. I also could be in a minority. Canadian politics, you know?

That is it. Not going to respond to anymore personal stuff, Tinman. You are entitled to your opinion, but that means I am entitled to mine, too. Wish you could see the logic and fairness of that.

So next time you post, start off by saying I did not see the game but............

actually, I listened to the game. Had to imagine what it looked like it in my head, and also had the gamecast on at the same time, as I was trying to get some work done in the office.

Pretty long preface. Can't I just say my opinion, pleeeeaaase?

raps4life: You are a dingbat. You should stick with the Leafs, as your pretentiousness should go along well with the Leafs.

Marcia, your postings reveal 3 things;

1) you are a newbie to basketball.
2) you have awkward social skills.
3) you have the intelligence of a pre-nursery kid.