The Garbage Man - Outside the Curve

by RaptorsHQ - Archives on Sep 11, 2006 6:20 AM EDT

We have written a lot about the international players on the 06-07 squad as of late. The focus has been primarily on Calderon and Garbajosa, two key members to the newly crowned world's best team - Spain. Now that both are coming off such a great run, Raps fans, including the HQ, are interested to see how their summer of success will translate into the coming NBA season.

For much of the summer Franchise and I have disagreed. Whether the topic was Salmons or Jones, the CV for TJ swap, or just the general direction of the team, we have had some heated debates. In lieu of this, it is perhaps not surprising that we choose to focus on two different players coming off the World Championships...he likes Calderon, I would rather talk Garbajosa. Now before I proceed, a few points of clarification:

I am sure that a few of the readers are taking the latest post on Calderon a little too seriously. It is probably a case of national pride. Let's set the record straight: Calderon is no Steve Nash, and in no way was it meant to take away from one of the greatest individual sporting accomplishments of all time. The article doesn't say: Calderon is the next Nash. The point was that if history were to repeat itself then the World Championships may be the start of Calderon taking his play to another level. MVP level? - Even the Raptor himsef would not make that argument. It will be interesting to see how Calderon performs this year, and as mentioned here before, it should be a heated battle in camp between him and TJ for the majority of the minutes.

The other topic of conversation of late is Garbs, and how he will perform this year. Ever since I did my initial research on this guy in "Who is Jorge Garbajosa" I have been somewhat skeptical I admit. The World's really did nothing to change my mind. To me when I see his game, I don't think he should be anything more than one of the last guys off the bench. I hope I am wrong. Now there have been some readers that think he is going to be a key component to the Raptors team this season. So, I decided to do a little more research on the Garbage Man and other Euro's who have made the jump as of late. I, unlike Franchise, have had my focus on this Spaniard...and perhaps the reason for this is that there seems to be a feeling, some momentum amongst the Raptors faithful, to annoint him the next fan favorite with the departure of Matt Bonner. I don't share that sentiment...yet.

Let's get one thing out of the way right now. I acknowledge and appreciate the fact that Garbs will bring hustle, a high basketball IQ and some decent glass cleaning skills to the Raps. I am not going to focus on these things. The thing I want to focus on is his offensive game. I have touched on it before and have dished out his stats during the Championship. They are not pretty. In particular inside the arc. Of course it is the arc that makes Garbs an interesting player. He is known for hitting the three. He can stretch the D. He put that ability and skill set on display in the finals against Greece as he stroked 6 long bombs. My initial reaction to watching him play was "Hey, the Raps have a shooter here." Then I thought about it a little more. I thought about the extra distance and I thought about how effective Garbs could be as a player if he doesn't make the NBA three. My gut instinct is "Not Very". Of course gut instinct isn't really worth much, facts are...so I found some.

It is still fairly rare to see guys who have made a career playing ball in Europe, make the NBA transition despite the fact that the international game has quickly been catching up to the NBA in terms of skill. For those individuals who have made the move what can we learn? Or more specifically, what can about them adjusting to the NBA three? So I needed a group of guys who have made the move as of late. Here's a few of the more noteworthy:

Jose Calderon
Sarunas Jasikevicius
Manu Ginobili
Beno Udrih
Andres Nocioni

Jose Calderon: As Raps fans we all know that Calderon was not much of a threat from three during his rookie season. He only took 43 attempts. The reason? He was only hitting at a 16.3% clip. What is interesting to note however, is that Calderon during his time in Europe was actually an above average three point shooter. In his final season with Tau Ceramica, Calderon took 108 three's and hit 45.4% of them. An excellent percentage. You have to think the extra differnce in distance, injuries and everything else considered, had something to do with this drastic decrease.

Sarunas Jasikevicius: I think it's a fair assumption to say that Sarunas has been a disappointment thus far for the Pacers. One of the primary reasons? Shooting percentage. Prior to being signed as a free-agent Sarunas was a sharp shooter for Maccabi Tel Aviv and ever since leaving Maryland shot over 50% from the floor. For seven seasons a PG shot over 50%. That's impressive. Perhaps even more impressive were his three point numbers. In the 2003/04 season Sarunas shot 58% from the outside and in the 2004/05 season hit 52.5%. So, how did this sharp shooting translate into the NBA? A 39.6% shooting percentage and a 36.4% three point percentage. Yikes.

Manu Ginobili: I will be the first to admit that Manu's game is more getting to the hoop rather than stroking the outside jumper. None the less I had to look to see how his stats have changed since becoming one of the NBA's true international stars. Manu played two seasons for Kinder Bologna in the Euroleague. In the 2000-2001 season he shot a great 56% from the floor but only 29% from the land beyond. In the 2001-2002 season, the year before making his NBA debut he still shot over 50% from the floor and managed to gain some consistency with the three pointer improving the shooting percentage to 34%. Since then? Unlike Calderon and Sarunas, Manu has managed to avoid the huge drop in shooting percentage and during his time with the Spurs he has shot above 45% from the floor and has actually been more deadly from the NBA three point range shooting 36% from outside. Maybe this is why he's one of the best players on one of the league's best teams.

Beno Udrih: So what about Manu's teammate? Beno has not exactly gotten a ton of minutes in his two NBA seasons, averaging just shy of 13 per contest. During the regular season one can only assume that it has not been his shooting that has kept him tied to the bench (the playoffs are a different story) as Beno has shot well (Career .448 shooting percentage, .387 from three). So was Beno a shooter before entering into Popovic's world? Yes. In particular from inside the arc where in both the 2001-02 and 2002-03 seasons he shot above 50% from the floor. The three point story? Somewhat different and Udrih was only hitting at a clip of 30% or so. Looks like he has made an ok transition, except other parts of his game continually get him in the dog house.

Andres Nocioni: So how about the next NBA international star? Nocioni became a force late this season and is a key component to the Bulls squad. Much like Sarunas, Andres was signed as a FA, and obviously is not shy to shoot the rock, in particular from the outside. Last season Andres took 238 three point attempts, and hit just shy of 40%. That high percentage however is far different then when he was first introduced to the L. In his rookie season Andres shot an ugly 25.8 percent from three. Another Tau Ceramica alum, Andres was a shooter when playing in the Euroleague and was a consistent threat from outside, shooting 44% and just shy of 40% in his last two seasons. One has to think the Bulls were questioning the signing when Andres was first making the transition.

So then what trends are there here if any? Nothing is written in stone and each player is different, but if I were a betting man, and looking at how some of the most recent imports to the NBA game performed, in particular from outside the arc in their first season in the L, I would say Garbs is in for a rough ride. The concern here is that Garbs is not that great of a shooter now, as witnessed by his percentages in the World's and this past season with Tau where he shot just over 40% from both inside and outside the international arc. That leaves me thinking if he does struggle like a number of his compatriots did in their rookie seasons, it may be a long year for the Garbage Man. Of course this is what I expected with this signing. I don't expect Jorge to come in and play a lot of minutes and unlike some of the readers, this is why I believe he and Humphries will be battling it out for PT off the bench. Both can rebound and get in the passing lanes, and if Garbs struggles shooting, then where's the difference between these two guys? Age is one, upside is another, and all of those things point to Humphries. All this being said, a team player who hustles and plays D is a great asset off the bench. I just don't think we will be singing his long range praises this season.

Any finally here's some quick hits this Sunday, something we have not done in a while here:

- With all of the focus on the international players as of late I think the one person that gets lost in the shuffle may be the best signing of the off-season, Fred Jones.

- Why is it the Raptors, supposedly Canada's team, are not playing an exhibition game somewhere in Canada other than Toronto? Doesn't the Raptors organization almost have to bring a game to Newfoundland after the fiasco the last time around? What about Montreal? Vancouver? Somewhere other than New York?!

- Training camp please start. It's one thing to make educated guesses at how things will go, it's another thing to watch them play out.

- When are the Raps going to introduce and start selling those new uni's?

- How do you think Cuban would have reacted had it not be Pau Gasol breaking his foot but Dirk? Can you say tirade and NBA's largest fine?

- Love the Don Nelson hiring in Golden State.

- Just a hunch but I say Shaq comes into the Heat camp at least 25 pounds overweight.

- The team I can't figure out at this point is the Hornets. If they mesh they could be very good, but I think it will take another season or two.

- I don't have LeafsTV but are there commercials for the Raps on there? Is it not strange that when I watch Raps TV I am forced to sit through Marlie and Leafs commercials? I thought it was all ball, all day? False advertising.

HOWLAND

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Comments

It's obvious that many of the questions about the Raps cannot be answered until probably January. What seems to emerge with winning teams is a willingness to share the ball on offence and play as one on defence. In Pheonex, Stoudemire went down with an injury, and yet they adjusted and did very well with players like Diaw and Barbosa. That team seems to have the ability to develop players and play unselfish which translates into wins. So wheather Garba does well is not as important as how the team meshes and shares the ball. If that"meshing" doesn't happen, the question is ;"Who's responsibility is it?"

by Rt on Sep 11, 2006 7:57 AM EDT reply actions

I havnt posted a comment in a while, but I feel that I agree with Howlands assesment. To me, Garbs is a smaller, better defender, worse shooter than Matt Bonner was. His offence game is completly from outside. One thing that I like about him is his attitude, and his winning nature. Plus, I think he will make it more comfortable for jose as they should know each other. Joses speed, with Garbs shooting (from 3 feet inside the arc) hopefully the pick and roll will work quite nicely with these 2 on the second unit.

by Scott on Sep 11, 2006 10:06 AM EDT reply actions

I think of Garbajosa's skill set similar to that of Donyell Marshall's but at a far cheaper price. Another way to look at it is as more athletic, skilled Matt Bonner. Either way, the Raps did alright.

by Rubik Kube on Sep 11, 2006 10:10 AM EDT reply actions

meh... so the 3 point line goes a bit farther back... those 3's he was hitting just become 2's... no biggie, so long as he hits them.

by Travis on Sep 11, 2006 12:30 PM EDT reply actions

Great post...bang on. And why the hell is the volume twice as loud during those Leafs commercials?

by Caribou on Sep 11, 2006 12:36 PM EDT reply actions

i think jorge is a great addition to this already talented roster & i believe this team can go far in the playoffs, even to winning a championship (im a raps freak) this squad looks confident. as for jorge, the first time i herd his name i thought of garbageman as being a good nickname & it turns out a lot of people call him that. That name suits him well sincde he does all the dirty work/claning on the court & if i were to choose who i would take to a championship (all previous raptors), he would be on my squad.

by chris on Sep 11, 2006 3:46 PM EDT reply actions

I'm sure it is not lost on Mitchell that the Raptors were last in the league in locks and 2nd last in rebounds. Garba has more skill at these two categories than Bonner, who dove for balls, shot threes and occasionally got ejected but aside from that was a *huge* liability (having an aneurysm remembering his attempts to put the ball on the floor time after time).

Garbs better be the inverse of Bargs, and not just because of a convenient spelling coincidence. Let Andreas stroke the three from outside. It's got to be Jorge's priority to get the Raptors out of the basement in these two categories so crucial to winning ball games, or it's got to be Mitchell's priority to not repeat his minute-rich "I'm in love with a hustler" fetish. Or to put it another way, Mitchell may be on the rebound post-Bonner, but it better be with a rebounder.

by Rappy on Sep 11, 2006 4:08 PM EDT reply actions

howland and franchise,

im loving your blog...i stumbled onto it early this summer trying to find some good bball reading, as tsn.ca has one good editorial every month, and everything on espn.com is tagged as "insider only".

i think you're right about JG though...with all the signings made by BC this summer, someone is gonna have to be at the end of the bench, and i think it will be garbs and tucker...it's great to have colangelo put his mark on the team, but not every player he signs will automatically become a star...let's just hope they develop their own niche within the team, and that at the end of the day, BC didnt overpay for their services.

with regards to your quick hit about the raps playing a preseason game somewhere other than toronto (namely newfoundland where i reside), i couldnt agree more. i was sitting in the stadium during that fiasco, and watched extatically as i believed i would be one of the first people to witness the original vince-lebron duel. sadly, i doubt that day will ever come as MLSE has pulled the baby leafs out of st. john's...so if MLSE has no representation here, the raps won't be back, i fear.

on an upside, i will finally get to see my first live nba game as instead of waiting for the raps to come back, im making the trek to toronto in early november to check out the revamped squad, and needless to say, and i cant wait to see bosh, ford and the others run the court!!

keep up the good work!

by Mark on Sep 11, 2006 6:15 PM EDT reply actions

I don't think we need to worry too much about what the garbage man brings to our offence, I doubt that will be his role. When he does play he will be the third or fourth option and should be able to do well enough for that. He is a smart player and should work well within the offence, even if that means not taking too many shots. What I am curious about is whether or not he can play the SF spot. I imagine him there with Bosh at C and Humphries rounding out the frontcourt, with Peterson and Calderon in the back court, to give the raps a tough defensive look. From what I read, he isn't the most athletic guy so there might be matchup problems, but he is smart and should make up for it a little in that way.

by Robert Archibald on Sep 12, 2006 7:57 AM EDT reply actions

Definitely add a new dimension/dynamic to the team, but in all honesty, I have no clue how he's going to adapt. Only seeing him in the WC doesn't really give a fair assesment.

Getting off track a bit, anyone know if there'll be a way to download Raptors games soon after they're finished next season? I'm in Asia and getting any coverage is a major bitch.

by Acie on Sep 12, 2006 8:28 AM EDT reply actions

if Garbajosa helps bring defensive unity and offensive balance then he'll find more than enough minutes. i hope he can become a, albeit less athletic, robert horry type.

Acie, i need to do the same. i had seen dead links on the pirate bay so hopefully once the season starts they'll resume posting/seeding them. anyone know of other options?

by ghosty guest on Sep 12, 2006 1:16 PM EDT reply actions

What's this ? Basketball peeps mad at hockey . I know that some hockey folks are anathema at the mention of b'ball but it will be foolish to dish the Maple Leafs for that Let's co exists . It's more fun that way !

by nike on Sep 12, 2006 3:02 PM EDT reply actions

Am I missing something about the Humph? i'll be surprised if he gets more than 10 minutes a game with the raps. those types haven't really fit in with us - think hoffa and aaron williams (yes, he's no better than them). i say humph and tucker (along with the #3 PG) will be the odd men out.

by anj on Sep 12, 2006 8:12 PM EDT reply actions

I would also tend to agree with Howland's comment. However, along with veins of RT's comments(1st poster). I also beleive that the key to this teams success lies in it's ability to gel as new teammates and the ability for the players to trust and depend on each other.. If this happens quickly, look to see something like what Phoenix accomplished last year to happen this year to Toronto, with guys stepping in wherever the need exists. If this doesn't happen, then it could be a long road. As far as Garbo is concerned, I would be all too happy if he developed into a Charles Oakley type of player - which I beleive he is - basically going for boards and any points we get from him would be bonus... I really don't see anyone else on this new roster being able to do something like that...

by Sanaman on Sep 12, 2006 10:22 PM EDT reply actions

Can/do the players have contact during the offseason and will they work out together? If Bosh could rally the troops and have the players show up 1 week early, but just for un official workouts ie. no coaches, this could help solve the gel factor that will be a major contributor in the beginning of the season

by Scott on Sep 13, 2006 1:41 AM EDT reply actions

I hope the Raps do real well this year. Now that it appears as though most of the trades are complete, the coaching becomes the key. I like Sam because he has shown balls when dealing with tough situations,ie the benching of Rose. Developing team unity is an art form which involves an extreme amount of communication with players in an effort to have them understand and accept their roles on the team. Part of it is just pure luck in having a group of individuals that "click". Last year they had some players that were not happy (Eric Williams for one). They obviously were not happy with their roles on the team. That was allowed to exist all season. Don't dismiss that by saying "They're high paid and can suck it up". That poisoned attmosphere can only be corrected by resolution with the player or movement of the player. Letting it linger kills.

by Rt on Sep 13, 2006 9:57 AM EDT reply actions

So, after not thinking Raptors for quite a long time (it was summer, you know), I have lapsed back into basketball for a bit now that the Jays are completely dead . . . although they have been for some time, I guess I was in denial.

So . . . I looked at the roster for the first time in a couple of months--it looks a lot better now than it did back in July!

Therefore, I had a question for you guys: could you perhaps rank the all-time best Raptors opening-day rosters from year one until the current bunch? I think it would be interesting to see where these guys, on paper, sit.

Thanks.

by Aaron on Sep 13, 2006 2:12 PM EDT reply actions

TV: Try MiniNova.com

Unprecidented, 12 of the Raps are already in town working out together, san coaches.

Best lineup: Vince, AD, Oakley, Dell Curry, Marc Jackson

Get ready for GARBO!

by Ustation on Sep 13, 2006 3:01 PM EDT reply actions

Scott,

The Raps are already together and raising my expectations:

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20060913.RAPTORS13/TPStory/TPSports/Basketball/

by anj on Sep 13, 2006 4:16 PM EDT reply actions

RE: anj - I couldn't agree more! Humphries was GARBAGE when he played in Utah. Seriously. Garbage. Look at his stats. Remember everyone - we got this kid AND Whaley for Araujo! This guy has never done anything at the NBA level to show that he's anything more than a 12th man (if that). About all he has going for himself is that he's still young enough he could develop a bit more. Hey, if Kwame Brown can develop (like he did last year with LA), maybe humphries can. But seriously, there's no reason to expect that he will, or to expect that he'll get any significant burn. I expect him to play about as often as Loren Woods did.

On that note, my expectations up front - Bargs will get Bonner minutes, Rasho will get Arajuo minutes, Jorge will get E-Will minutes, Humphries will get Woods minutes, Tucker will get Pape Sow minutes (i.e. D-League).

by raptorman on Sep 13, 2006 4:16 PM EDT reply actions

I think that Jorge could play about 20-25 minutes in the league, he is a great player, so much better than Matt Bonner, Kris Humphries and PJ Tucker for example

by Jay on Sep 14, 2006 11:05 AM EDT reply actions

I don't know any more about Parker, Bargnani or Jorge then all the stuff I could see on draftexpress.com, but I like how we're acquiring skilled and versatile players. It's nice to have someone who can just nail treys like Steve Kerr or just protect the middle like Ben Wallace, but one dimensional players are also liabilities.

Jorge stepped up to grab 10 boards and anchor Spain's interior defence when Gasol went down. I'm sure he can act like a younger Donyell Marshall when he gets here. I just wish I knew his actual height and wingspan.

I see Calderon as an energy PG coming off the bench to play 15 minutes a game behind TJ. He'll anchor a second unit with Bargnani, Garbajosa, Fred Jones and Joey Graham that should be exciting to watch. I think the raps will be looking for Joey Graham to emerge as a dependable stopper and three point shooter this year as MoPete doesn't have the consistency.

by Eddie on Sep 18, 2006 9:21 AM EDT reply actions