The Greatest Raptor Team of All Time - An HQ Perspective

by RaptorsHQ - Archives on Aug 16, 2006 11:36 AM EDT

Before we hand out the awards, a few notes on how we arrived at our final 12.

First and foremost it was agreed that all 12 players selected to the squad had to have played more than one full season with the Raptors. The result? Players like Billups, B.J. Armstrong, Mike James and Charlie Villanueva were NOT eligible. Although CV Smooth had one of the best rookie seasons in franchise history, when people look back at his career, he will not be remembered as a Raptor and in all likelyhood he will be remembered as a Buck. Although we debated this rule, primarily because of Mike James, the conclusion was that these one-hit wonders wouldn't make the cut.

Second, we also agreed that of the players chosen, although it was not required that they had their best statistical seasons in Toronto per se, it was required that they did have a major impact on the team and were not completely devoid of skill while here. (Yes, we're talking to you "Dream.")

Finally, we established that our picks weren't necessarily the best group of individuals, but rather the 12 players that we thought would make up the best TEAM, considering position, skill set and intangibles.

And here we go...

Starting Five:

PG: Damon Stoudamire - No question here. Mighty Mouse was the heart and soul of the franchise for its first few years and probably the best pg we've had to date. Not necessarily a traditional pass-first point but he was a blur on offense and right from the get go he could score with the best of them. Although undersized, he's the best option here and we feel comfortable with him at the helm of this mighty ship. However a few solid seasons from TJ Ford could of course threaten his starting bid on the team in the future.

SG: Vince Carter - While he's no longer welcome in these parts, this was the easiest selection. Carter was responsible for putting the Raptors on the NBA map and is still the most gifted offensive player to have ever played for the team. He is the primary scoring threat (whether he wants to be or not, don't worry we have Oak on this team to keep a fire under his a**) and someone any opposing team has to be concerned about. A solid start so far now that our backcourt is set.

SF - Morris Peterson - Mr. Glue, Mo Pete would still get lots of burn with this club and providing that Kevin O'Neal is not coaching this team, this seems like a great fit. Peterson gets his shots when they are available and doesn't force the issue and really, what is a Raptors game without a Mo P "girls gone wild" shot? And finally, we all know that Carter is not going to do the dirty work on the defensive end so you need a Peterson-type playing alongside of him.

PF: Chris Bosh - No comment needed.

C: Marcus Camby - We picked Camby to start over Antonio Davis. Camby's shot-blocking dominance gave him the edge in this defensively challenged starting lineup. He is also a little more athletic and this starting five will want to get up the floor quickly. He is also the only player in this team that will alter shots (doesn't say much for the 5's who have played in this town.) Although the starting five is missing some grit and toughness, that's why we have a bench....

Bench (in order of who would come off first):

SG - Doug Christie - Almost an HQ cut casualty due to his wife but in the end, Christie's defence, 3 point shooting and ability to backup three positions got him on our squad. Christie is under appreciated in Raptor land and with his new clothing company this squad would be dressed for success.

PG - Alvin Williams - What could have been? A healthy Williams may have even been good enough to challenge Stoudamire for the starting point guard role but in any event Williams was a solid defender and crunch-time star, exactly what you'd want from your backup point guard spot. He is also the perfect compliment to Mighty Mouse when outmatched by a bigger PG and both could even be used together at times in the backcourt. In the clutch, Damon would likely find himself on the bench allowing Alvin to throw daggers and in any event, is our pick for seventh man.

C - Antonio Davis - Really blossomed offensively in TO, (lone All-Star appearance as a Rap) and metric system jokes aside, was one of Toronto's most consistent players. When he was here in Toronto (the first time) he was a beast on the offensive glass and you can never have too much rebounding. AD could also spend some time at the PF position alongside Camby giving us the option to go big against certain teams. With him, Bosh and Camby, we feel we have addressed many of our front court needs, and we still have not added...

PF - Charles Oakley - While he was more productive statistically with the Bulls and Knicks, the Oak-tree was a huge part of Toronto's playoff experience and gave Toronto the toughness it needed to compete in the East. Oak was one of the first guys that came to mind when putting this team together. Although we still have nightmares about some of the jump shots he took against Philly back in the day and some of his "passes," he is the kind of guy that would keep this team focused and ensure accountability. He is also willing to give the HARD foul and you could be sure no-one would ever go for 81 points with him on the team, unless they did it with one arm.

SF/PF - Donyell Marshall - This is another player who probably had his best all-around seasons in Toronto. Marshall in his early days looked to be a tweener playing his way out of the NBA but in Toronto, used his outside shooting and inside rebounding ability to the max. This is a player who can really stretch the opposing team's defence and again does a good job on the glass. While he probably won't get a ton of time on this squad, he will essentially play a "Matt Bonner" type role, just A LOT BETTER than Bonner...

SG/SF - Tracy McGrady - The most controversial decision. T-Mac on talent alone should have been the starting 3 on the team. However after much discussion we realized that McGrady never really took his game to that next "dominant" level until he left Toronto. In fact he was fairly invisible for his first few seasons here and it was only right before he bolted for Orlando that fans got to see glimpses of the talent he possessed. We couldn't leave him off the team completely however and knowing how he eventually did develop, just imagine a starting five with Stoudamire, VC, T-MAC, Bosh and well.....anyone with two legs. SICK. On this team however he's the player that rides the pine in hopes that he develops.

SG: Dell Curry - This was a tough call. The final spot was between Jalen Rose (for his "all-interview team" skills), Dee Brown (for his ability to play three positions and long-range capabilities), Mugsy Bogues (third point guard), JYD (hustle and intangibles), Keon Clark (more shot-blocking) and Curry. Curry gets our nod as the last guy off the bench. Many fans remember his clutch shooting and this is what puts him on our squad. We've got a load of 3's and 4's right now so Curry could backup the 2 spot and give Toronto another long-range threat. Curry also had a good mid-range game and was one of the quickest at getting his shot off this side of Detlef Schrempf. A lineup of Alvin Williams, Dell Curry, Vince Carter, Donyell Marshall and Chris Bosh would epitomize the "spreading the court" concept...not to mention that you always need a guy that has a patch of white in his hair....just ask the Pistons.

Coach:

Lenny Wilkens - While Tracy McGrady's selection may be our most controversial, this one was the toughest. Toronto had the most playoff success ever under Wilkens and his knowledge of the game is unchallenged. But his coaching ability alone gives us reason to pause. But who else to choose?

-Butch Carter - a taskmaster to the max?
-Kevin O'Neil - all defence and broken lamps?
-Brendan Malone - the original Raptors coach?
-Sam Mitchell - great offense no defense?

Not exactly a lot to choose from.

So in the end, we're splitting the difference and taking Wilkens for head coach, with his staff of assistants consisting of O'Neil for defence, Mitchell for offense and Brendan Malone for...well...history. And for can-con, Jay Triano of course. The hope would be that with Oakley, Antonio Davis and Alvin Williams, the team could get its leadership on-court.

And there you have it. The best team of Raps that we here at the HQ can come up with. Disagree with a selection? Are we missing someone? Let us know what 12 Raps would make up your team. Next week we'll be bringing the flip-side...the 12 WORST Raptors of all time...stay tuned...

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Comments

anyone who is reading this site and its articles... needs to get a life.. including myself...

we need real ball... and soon...

crist

by andy on Aug 16, 2006 11:57 AM EDT reply actions

Excellent post! As much as I like Camby starting at C, I'd rather have a decent rebounder who doesn't require shooting the ball much, and can alter shot and has more athleticism. Who, you ask? I'm thinking Keon Clark in this situation. It may sound weird, but remember those nasty altered shots and blocks against philly? I don't know about getting to the FT line btw the two when they were here, but I felt Clark provided rebounding, athleticism, and altered shots. More like the dirty work. With the run and gun style that the starting lineup possesses, I think Clark should be there (definitely over AD, and even Camby so some sort). Think of a Boris Diaw type player. Yes...we may be pounded in the paint with CB4 and Clark, but I don't see anything else unless you insert Oak.

As for starting PG - I would have put A.will. Stoudamire is a shooter, and we have three of them (Pete, VC, and CB4) starting. All we need is a penetrator and a passer.

I agree with the Mopete idea having him in the starting lineup, but I think TMac starting would create bigger mismatches. Rebounding could possibly help in this department as well. I think Peterson is a great 6th man off the bench instead. Even when TMac was playing with VC, he had double digit points and approx 6-7 rebounds? Don't quote me on that.

Well here's my analogy:

C: Clark
PF: CB4
SF: TMac
SG: VC
PG: A Will.

Both TMac, VC, and CB4 will log minutes, so I don't think their spot in the bench will be deep.

Bench:
C/PF - Oak
C - Camby
PF - JYD
PF/SF - Marshall
SG - Christie
PG - Stoudamire
PG/SG/SF - Rose

Curry would be nice, but we have Rose, Christie, Stoudamire, and Marshall off the bench for 3's. That's all he COULD do. If the starting lineup has mismatches at C, we could enter Oak of Camby if the C is a pounder (i.e. Shaq). Even though no one can really guard Shaq, I think we should be quicker against his speed with more athleticism, hence not having AD (he's a decent rebounder, slow footwork, but can score).

by DJ JMJ on Aug 16, 2006 12:26 PM EDT reply actions

Andy, you got better suggestions for what to write in the offseason? Please give ideas! This site has ideas most wouldn't think of. If it's about raps ball, I'm in. I'd be glad to read what ideas you have for the offseason. As a true raps fan in the summer, I'd rather read anything than golf or tennis. Something is better than nothing.

by DJ JMJ on Aug 16, 2006 12:31 PM EDT reply actions

you got that right

nice lineup

by Rawhw on Aug 16, 2006 12:57 PM EDT reply actions

Too bad we didn't have a great gm for all those years. Though each of your starting 5 is still in the NBA, just one of those horses still runs for the Raptors.

by raptorman on Aug 16, 2006 2:45 PM EDT reply actions

Good post, I"ve always been a reader of your site..

Quick thought -- I don't agree with having Camby as the starting C.. my reason is because he didn't really blossom with his time here in Toronto. He was frequenly injured. It wasn't until recently in Denver that he started to establish himself, and post great numbers.
I felt that the reasonings that you gave for leaving T-Mac out could be applied the same way for Camby (ie this quote: "however after much discussion we realized that McGrady never really took his game to that next â€œdominantâ€ level until he left Toronto. In fact he was fairly invisible for his first few seasons here and it was only right before he bolted for Orlando that fans got to see glimpses of the talent he possessed.")

by SW on Aug 16, 2006 2:59 PM EDT reply actions

Couldn't agree more SW ... AD is my starter by a mile at the 5 ... Camby was never a solid player in a Raptor uniform ... He put up decent shot blocking numbers, but he didn't learn how to rebound and defend until New York, or maybe he never bothered to. Whatever. The point is, this list needs to be judged by what a player did in a raptor uniform. In his brief time here, and in particular that first post-trade deadline performance, Keon was way better than Camby in Toronto. Doesn't make my starting lineup anyway though.

My other big complaint is that Damon put up those numbers playing for a losing squad, when there is no one else to score but him. He basically proved he wasn't as good as those numbers when he went to Portland. Add to that the fact that Alvin put up over 15 ppg, decent assists, actually played defence, and played it well, and was always(!) money when we needed him. Alvin by a mile for me, us Damon as a change of pace.

Other beefs: Don't see how you can take Dell over Jalen. No way, no how. If Dell wasn't open, Dell wasn't scoring. And he sure wasn't playing any defence. Probably sweetest jump shot ever though. I'm keepin Mo P in my starting lineup, but I think the panel (of one) underrates T-Mac. His last season was a pretty phenomenal all around season. I would certainly take that T-Mac over the Jalen that appeared in a Rap's uniform.

My Team:

1 - Alvin Williams - see above
2 - VC - hate it but it can't be helped
3 - Mo P - It's all about the D. Jalen and T-Mac were superior offensively
4 - Bosh - too bad he couldn't have played next to AD in his prime
5 - AD - only thing camby did better was block shots, and not by much.

Bench:

6 - T-Mac
7 - Damon
8 - Jalen
9 - Oakley
10 - Keon Clark
11 - D. Marshall
12 - D. Christie - but JYD would get the job cause team is short on bigs.

LETS HOPE BARGIANI AND FORD MAKE THIS LIST!

by Simon on Aug 16, 2006 8:06 PM EDT reply actions

Horrible list. You forgot Oliver Miller and Walt "The Wizard" Williams.

by D on Aug 17, 2006 2:49 PM EDT reply actions

c-Kevin Willis (not the best center in the world, but he got the job done.)
pf-CB4
sf-Wince Carter (hate him, but cant deny he was good)
sg-Tmac (he was a terrific defender in his last season with the raptors)
pg- Damon Stoudamire (before the wince-era, he WAS the raptors)

Bench
6-Morris Peterson
7-AD
8-Mugsy Bogues (This guy was like a lightning, a true pg, and he NEVER misses an open shot. He rarely turns the ball over too. If he was a few inches taller, he would be a hall of famer!!)
9- Doug Christie
10- Keon Clark (he was a blocking machine, it was so great watching him reject everyone in the paint)
11- Dell Curry (This guy was one of the best clutch shooters in Raptors history!)
12- Oakley (He is here just to keep Carter motivated, to help out in the paint so Carter wont get injured, and to do the diving that we lack from Carter)

Inactive List
Alvin Williams (This is one of the most overrated players that ever wore a Raptors jersey. Besides the fact that he was the symbol of Anti-Wince, and that he made the most important shot in the playoffs.. he sucked. So he should be on the inactive list so people on the forums can keep talking abt how he gave us everything)
Camby (with keon clark, who needs his shot blocking ? )
D. Marshall (theres enough 3-point shooters in the lineup as it is)

by Darryl on Aug 17, 2006 3:23 PM EDT reply actions

How about the Lamest Raptors Team of All-Time? I am only including players that actually got in a game once in a while - so no Master P.

PG: Chris Childs / Milt Palacio
SG: Jimmy King / Shawn Respert
SF: Chris Jeffries / Dion Glover / Corliss Williamson (he sucked as a Raptor)
PF: Carlos Rogers / Robert Archibald / Lonny Baxter
C: Zan Tabak / Michael Stewart / Nate Huffman / Rafael Arujo

by BC on Aug 18, 2006 9:14 AM EDT reply actions

BC - Those are some real doozies...we've got some of them on our list for next week too ha ha.

D - The Wiz and the Big O...classics but weren't good enough to make the cut. Anyone remember when Miller opted out of his contract and then didn't ever see nearly that guaranteed amount of money again? Doug Smith at the Toronto Star was talking about it on Tuesday in his weekly piece. Love when NBA players make sound financial choices like that.

After posting the article, I got to thinking about our logic for choosing Camby and SW, you're right...I think I'd amend things and put AD back in the starting lineup. He, like T-Mac, really didn't blossom into the defensive presence he now is until late with the Knicks and you could argue even until his Denver days.

It will be interesting to see what type of impact Ford and Bargnani can have next year...maybe they'll be waiting in the wings to soon be on this list...

by Franchise on Aug 18, 2006 12:05 PM EDT reply actions

I on the other hand would keep Camby in the starting spot. He doesn't need to score because VC and Bosh will do that, and he is a true shot blocker. Obviously he developped more after he was in Toronto but all he would have to do on this squad is rebound a block shots. He is also more likely to run the floor.

Chris Childs on the worst? Let's not forget that Childs was damn good in the NY playoff series. His three point shotting was off the hook. I would much rather put Marc Jackson there.....that guy was a bum in Toronto....

Another good guy off the bench would have been Kevin Willis.

by Howland on Aug 18, 2006 12:28 PM EDT reply actions

Ok - instead of Childs, put the tandem of Jermaine Jackson and Derrick Dial on the All-lame Raps team.

I wonder if that Jermaine also named his kid Jermajesty?
(like the other Jermaine Jackson)

by BC on Aug 18, 2006 5:04 PM EDT reply actions

You could also have the all-time screwed the raps over team:

VC
Zo
T-Mac
John Salmons
Kenny Anderson
David Stern (could have had Iverson instead of Camby if not for that stupid rule about not getting #1 pick)

by BC on Aug 18, 2006 5:11 PM EDT reply actions

G: Damon Stoudamire
G: Vince Carter
F: Mo Pete
F: Bosh
C: Keon Clark
6: Charlie Villanueva
7: Marshall
8: Walt Williams
9: Antonio Davis
10: Dell Curry
11: Mike James
12:Hakeem Olajuwon

by Mark on Sep 5, 2006 3:09 PM EDT reply actions