Jump Ball: The Free-Agency Debate

To date I only have quibbles with BC's strategy (in order):

1. Not trying for Marcus Williams by making a play for the Suns pick (which went pretty cheaply)
2. The money reportedly being given to Garbajosa ($4 million a year???)
3. The money reportedly being given to Parker (again... $4 million a year?)
4. CV for TJ+ is fine... but... cash... that's it?

So mark me as still in the happy column. Humphries and Rasha are solid, solid pick-ups and AB and PJ are solid draft choices. Wait and see.

I agree with Howland on most of his assessments. BC has made allot of moves but it seems that he has not gotten full value in many of them. If he had saved his cap room he could make a big offer to Al Harrington and bring in a seasoned NBA player that can score 20, rebound and play some D. Instead he is spending him money on a bunch of Euros that may or may not be able to play. I was phyched up when BC came here but now Im just confused.

Bargnani is averaging like 3 reb per game in summer league. Graham has never been a good rebounder. Rasho averaged 3 reb per game last season and is only averaging 5 for his career. Other then Bosh who isn't a great rebounder either who exactly is going to rebound for this team?

If Babcock had not been fired during the season and had made these moves people would be saying the same things as the NY Knick fans.

Well at least the draft class of 07 is looking good.

I understand how someone who thought Babcock had a good plan would be scratching their head with what BC has done. Since taking over he's systematically eradicated every last trace of Bab-ness from the Raptors. In the beginning it was excellent stuff: putting Hoffa out of his misery, breaking up the Bonner-Mitchell love-in while simultaneously curing the Eric Williams cancer.

But BC hasn't stopped there. Would CV have been as easy to trade if he were his own draft pick and not Babs'? Now he's even trumped Rob's euro-lite plan of Roko and Slokar with his own cadre of imports, Bargnani (Slokar must freaking HATE this guy, now he's behind him in the rotation AGAIN!) Garbage and Parker. I mean, all these 3-year depth signings eating up roster spots, it's pretty likely neither of those guys will ever get over here before we lose their rights.

I'm pretty pumped about the moves overall. I just wonder if ego is winning out over shrewdness as BC marks his territory...

I agree that the "moves" that BC has made so far haven't gotten me excited. But, I think I'll take a "wait and see" approach before passing judgement. Sure, there's a great deal of risk in making the Raptors "Team United Nations", but there really isn't an alternative at the moment. We seem to be bad at the "wrong time" where we miss out on what is supposed to be the "mother of all drafts" in 2007 and also the free agent crop next year. Sucks to be us...

Honestly, I'm not sure what else BC could do with the cap room we have. This year's FA market isn't very good. I just think about the insane contracts that have been handed out (Pejay at $64M? or Nene at $60M/6yrs?!!) and am glad we didn't sign them for those crazy amounts. The moves so far are risky, but justifiable (Ford for CV and Rasho for EW & Bonner). I have no idea about Parker or Garbajosa's games, so I can't comment if that's a good move or not. But, Euro players seem to be a bit of a gamble, so based on the zero NBA experience factor, I'm a bit leery.

I still get the feeling that BC is just biding his time for the trade deadline to make a blockbuster move. All of the moves so far seem to be "temporary" moves to fill immediate needs and help put a decent team on the floor. I figure BC's been here less than 6 months, so he's probably trying to find ways to improve the team. The one good thing is that the contracts we're either inheriting (via trade) or FA signings are not very long and are manageable (3-4 years at around $4M). These contracts can be traded and don't cripple us for years to come. We do need to sign Ford and he'll probably get something in the $6-8M range depending on how he performs this year.

My final thought...wait and see. There's risk for sure, but do we have any other chance? We can't go back in time and rescind the trades. BC will be judged as either a genius or a crazy man for his moves.

These unproven players from European teams have been "wiping the floor" with our so called NBA Stars in international competition for nearly a decade now! And B-Co is signing league MVPs not bench stiffs! Just maybe some more of them are deserving of a chance at the NBA game and money. Just because we don't see them play every week, doesn't mean they don't have talent.

Maybe there are no free agents that BC wants. Peja was hugly overpaid, and at the end of his contract he could be a cap killer. I wont even talk about Nene. But maybe BC doesnt want any of the other FA> It is all good and nice for use to say get Harrington, but if BC is looking for proven winners to change this team around, Harrington is not it. Maybe he is worried about harringto stunting the growth of Bosh and Bargs and Joey. The problem I have with all the new players, is the chemistry. It could click...but chances are it will take awhile for it to click. The money seems to be a bit much for these unproven players, BUT they are getting paid alot if they want to stay, and we do ahve to outbid other teams (phoenix, indy, etc, etc) And really, if the players turn out to be even just ok, then we have a steal. If they turn out to be bad, not too many people complain about a contrcat that is 3 years and 4 mill as being crippling to the cap.

I guess I am also worried about all of these 3 year contracts...what is going to happen in 3 years, are we goign to loose our team again and have to start from scratch?? Sure it gives us fliexibility, and wont hold us down...but if everyone decides to leave as FA in 3 years...we are left with Bargs, Bosh...and perhaps TJ if we re-sign him

Does anyone remember the first three games Mitchell coached? If I recall correctly, the Raps won all 3 against fairly good competition by outrunning the other team. Then, the poor athleticism of the team caught up with them and they couldn't run any more. What did Babcock do to address the athleticism?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't all the players the Raps are bringing in good athletes? If this is true, will this finally allow Mitchell to coach the way he wants? And will this get us wins?

As we know all too well, Toronto has had considerable trouble attracting US free agents and retaining its own US players, simply because many American players don't want to live in Canada. However, BC and others believe that Toronto is one of the most attractive NBA cities from an international perspective, and if they build a program that caters to international players, the Raptors could become the premier franchise for this large and growing subset of players - what BC likes to call the NBA's only true international franchise.

In light of this Euro strategy, adding Gherardini, Bargnani, Garbajosa and Parker to the fold makes perfect sense. They may not turn the team around this season, but they will start the process of transforming the Raptors into an international team.

This stragey is a scary one for Raptors fans, because we haven't seen any of these guys play. We essentially have to place all our trust in BC, Gherardini and the rest of the Raptors braintrust. On the other hand, it's also pretty exciting... I haven't been this excited about the Raptors in quite some time!

I agree with much of what you have to say cormac...it is not a bad strategy recruiting guys that aren't afraid of Canada and its weird and wacky ways (that metric system is a buggar!).

However, I don't see we are risking all that much with the recent moves that have been reportedly made. Yes, 4 million a year is not chump change, but far less than the average salary...so even if Garbajosa and Parker turn out to be nothing, we've still got our core in place, nothing really lost. That said, I would much prefer to role the dice with a guy like Parker than Hassell (especially at a lower cost, fewer years)...upside is just so much greater. The other thing that these guys bring is veteran leadership and a winning attitude (they've both been highly successful for years on their respective teams)...two things desperately needed by the Raps.

In terms of giving up on Babcock's Euro-lite strategy, I don't see this. It would be nice to get Ukic here this year...but his buy-out is supposedly huge, may just not be financially feasible. Next year it is supposedly far more reasonable...we will see him then (and to whomever complained that he isn't on the summer league roster...if we'd brought him over to play this summer and weren't able to negotiate a contract, we'd lose his rights...far too high of a gamble). Slokar might be a nice player in a very limited role...but he is essentially a Matt Bonner type, a useful 10th, 11th, 12th guy on the roster, nothing more.

I think there is some risk in the moves BC has made...but I think they are good risks to have taken and have been pleased with pretty much every move. The Raps will have far more of an identity this year, they have a plan in place (not saying they didn't before, I was actually excited about what Babcock was puting together), an exciting young core of talent and attitude. Time will tell of course...but I like the roster going into this season better than any year in about 6 or 7.

Raps have previously brought in players like they were investing in Money Market Funds... Big investment, little risk, little reward (ie guys like Jalen & Lamond). Going for CV was a bit of an investment in the American Equity market and it paid off. This year's theme of global equities invlove high risks, being very volatile and may or may not pay off big....

However.. the way the raps were heading with previous philosophies did not work.. I'm ready for a change.

We have to find new methods to develop some type of competitive advantage in the league. Why are we here (ie out of the playoffs) in the first place? 1st round collegiate drafting has been mixed, but in general worse than better (Jeffries, Bradley, Arrujo). 2nd round drafting has been a complete bust (none). Free Agent signings have been generally poor (Hakeem hurt us for a while). Player trades have been poor but limited. So what's the Raps strength? Well, if you're like me, you have to believe BC will be a better fund manager and spot undervalued commodities better than anyone else in the league, and maybe hope for some trades for better pieces that will fit. I'm no Euro scout, so I can't even add my 2 cents, it's all based on someone else's opinion who may or may not have watched any games and may or may not be a so-called expert.

I pretty much feel the same way as many Raps fans; my enthusiasm for the moves is not high but I see them as part of the long-term plan. I tend to think Colangelo is a realist, he knows this team needs more pieces and therefore will not be ready to contend for at least a few years. The Euro vets don't command huge $ or long-term deals. Parker, Gabbo and Rasho will all be expiring contracts in 3 years, by which time Bosh and Ford will be young vets (and I pray to God that Bosh will not be a free agent that summer). Also Bargs and our stud SF plucked from the loaded 2007 draft (Kevin Durant come on down...) will have a few years under their belt. And Leni-Roko Uuuuuuuukiiiiic! should be over by then as well. So let's think positively about the long-term.

With that in mind some of us Raptors fans tend to be overly negative and are seriously dreading the short-term. Based on what we know as of today and what we expect from free agent signings over the next few days, what are we most likely to be bitching about 2 months into the season (excluding getting killed on the boards and playing no D which is a certainty to continue)?

1) CV tearing it up for Milwaukee while TJ Ford bricks from the outside, turns it over repeatedly and gets posted up on every other possession;

2) Bargnani playing less than 15 mpg because of foul trouble, but taking 8 outside shots during that period while grabbing only 1-2 boards;

3) Rasho being Rasho, meaning soft, an offensive non-entity and (increasingly) seriously overpaid;

4) The Euro “rookies” not making a significant impact as they have trouble adjusting to the NBA game;

5) Humphries being a black hole on offense and coasting through games;

6) Joey Graham not being Danny Granger; or

7) Chuck Swirsky still being in the broadcast booth (FIRE HIM NOW).

Remember, it is what are we MOST LIKELY to be bitching about as all are not unrealistic? I go with 6), with 3) as a close second. I fear that as long as Granger is in this league I will be going with 6). The starting 5 would have been set had Babcock done what he should have done. "Damn you Rob Babcock, damn you to hell."

And anyone who knows something about the salary cap knows that not trading Donyell Marshall for a bad contract would have been a bad move. And letting James walk is fine by me, you can take your Trenton Hassell, crumple him up into a ball, and...

Despite the overarching fact that we have to wait until the Allstar break to see how all these moves have benefited our team, I have been pretty impressed with the direction we're heading in and the players we're using to step with. I think it's been impressive how honest and open BC has been in regards to his plan for the present and future. The Spurs have been the precursor to what he's after but if what he constructed in Phoenix is any clue then we are going to become the Red Bull Spurs in next few years (if we succeed then we will continue on to develop into playing like beasts we're named after) The Raptors have never once been able to claim a STYLE of basketball. Babcock may have started a solid plan I don't see how it was ever going to mature into a unique SIGNATURE of basketball. It's pretty clear in my mind that that's what BC is trying to obtain. A signature more powerful than his father's (cue up the john williams).

BC has been pretty systematic in going through each of the positions and trying to upgrade our talent level while being fiscally responsible (hopefully the truism that you get what you pay for doesn't bite us in the gonads, but hardly anyone gets payed for intangibles in the league so we have that goin for us). Our team's "loop" starts with the power forward and ends with small forward. first we got Humphries to back up bosh then we got Rasho, our first center in long while. in the draft we solidified where the "loop" joins with Bargnani (pf/c) and Tucker. After that we addressed the point guard need with Ford. Now we're at end of the moratorium, we're hopefully solidifing the guard positions (Parker and Salmons) and the small forward. With Garbajosa, I think we're getting a mix of Martin type to help Bargnani pick up on things the coaches want to see from him quicker. As well as a dude that can still play at high level. BC is really going above n' beyond to make sure Bargnani is given everything to become an elite player. I also want to say I can't wait to yell out Fonza Porno! whenever he touches the ball. That alone is worth 4mil a year.

I used the "loop" thing because the only thing that i think is going to remain for a while is the team first mentality Babcock and Mitchell once agreed upon. Everybody being brought in are team first players (not sure about Salmons, don't know enough about him). The truism the whole is larger than the sum of all its parts fits well here.

I'd keep going but as I was writing this I came across this post which outlines most of everything I wanted to talk about but couldn't organize in my head about the business side of things that we're setting up to kill miyamoto musashi styles

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=543176&start=0

Are these the best names we can talk about??? John Salmons... Garbojasa... these guys are not the answer. (Although Garbage could be a surprise) If Bargnani does not pan out, the Raps will only have 1 name worth talking about. I'm hoping BC has a blockbuster in store to bring us a big name player. We seem to have a lot of bench players, but without gritty rebounders or defenders. Nerterovic is a long centre, but the NBA's 2nd worst defense in the league needs to improve on the perimeter as well. As Ustation would say, we need to get dirty and invest in some Oil & Gas.

Last year Rob Babcock came out an said in the media that the Raptors weren't that good.....was he right!!?? Yes, so the only option was to blow things up way up!! It's seen that most ppls are questioning BC. BC didn't get GM of the year by chance!!! He has a plan let him excute it, and sit back and see what happens........Now if it falls apart!!! Now we have every right to question BC, deals but give it a chance....... By the way those players from the Euroleague if you watch the Euroleague you will notice that there style of game is a fast past game...Not to mention BC picking the stars from that league so they are definitly not stiffs.......So you can read into that????

When things are all said and done we should have a good starting line and a good bench....Give it time!!

Not one to pounce but Oil & Gas is destroying the planet. Seen? BC is investing in Wind & Hemp like a true child prodigy! There's a paradigm shift taking place in more than just the basketball world boys and girls. Raps may hire Dr. Suzuki soon as an Advisor in Ital.

Without the Rose trade, CV3 doesn't get the minutes to show how good he is, and we're still without a quality point guard. That by itself makes the trade worthwhile in my estimation. In addition, Rose was useless on defense and getting in the way of younger players developing. He was rarely making a difference while he was here and until Davis and Bosh both got injured, the Raps were actually playing some decent ball. His trade was nothing but positive. Yes, the pick at #20 would have been nice, but not worth having Rose around taking away minutes from younger players and using up far too big a chunk of the salary cap.

I think you've got to look at the overall picture. Bosh is resigning (the BIGGEST deal), we've got a lightning-quick, pass-first point guard, a serviceable centre, and some interesting signings on the horizon with the Euro infusion. I'm hopeful (with Parker and Porn Man coming to town) they will be solid additions to the team. Bargnani may take a season or two, but he should be very good-to-excellent beside Bosh once the Raps start shaping into contender form.

I thought Babcock (once he got past the VC deal) did a pretty decent job, but one thing he didn't have was the respect of the media, which BC has a handle on. Also, getting good press in the US (and now Europe) makes the team a lot more appealing for all available players.

With Salmons signing, or perhaps an in-season trade, the Raps will have a more balanced line-up than in many years. Progress is being made.

Bryan Colangelo's a smart man. Some may doubt his decisions on the soon to be Raptors Parker and Porn Man. But then again a lot of his decisions were heavily doubted. I think that with all the great styles of play coming in (from euroleague, Utah, Spurs,Milwaukee, and whatever else is coming) they will mesh together and make one great style of play.Of course it won't happen overnight. The players will develop to each others styles of play and I believe the results will be great. We are solid at every position and I am hoping the 06/07 roster will look like this. Every position has depth and the shooting guard only has 2 people because I am assuming Anthony & Morris can handle that between themselves.

Starting Lineup:
PG: T.J. Ford (lightning quick pass first PG)
SG:Morris Peterson (one of the games greatest shooters)
SF:Joey Graham (very promising & defensive minded)
PF:Chris Bosh (what can't he do?)
C:Rasho Nesterovic (gret=at for needs of rebounding and shot blocking)

Bench:
PG:Jose Calderon, Andre Barret
SG:Anthony Parker
SF:P.J Tucker, (John Salmons?)
PF:Jorge Garbajosa, Kris Humphries
C:Pape Sow, Andrea Bargnani

Ok.. I'm somewhere in between H's enthusiasm and Gib's. When you qualify Mo Pete as one of the games greatest shooters, I nearly had my bottle of beer shoot through my nose (and I mean entire bottle, glass and all). I need some warning before someone writes that kind of stuff! :)

I'm not sure about the Oil and Gas, but a little oil and a few raptor dance pack dancers could get me back as a season ticket holder! ;) (*kidding* - I used to go to the same gym as them, and I have much respect for them: except Courtney [head choreographer]--ok.. that's just cause I'm in love with her -- I digress)

Not sure if David Suzuki would get me back as a subscriber either! He'd probably want to tell us that if we don't clean up our act, we too could end up like the dinos.. extinct. Oh well.. that's just the nature of things.

More complaining from Toronto Fans!
You wanted a center and a point guard and now you have them! Celebrate!
I love this international strategy and think that, after watching Nowitzki, Parker, and Manu be successful, we may want to stop looking at all of the Euros with a superior mentality. Until we NA's win back an Olympics or World Crown, then maybe we need to be a little quiet. I think that the Euros that we are signing as free agents are going to rock! They all have something to prove. The Euro center we got has something to prove after San Antonio sat his ass. Bargs will need a little time. But the Euros we have are not Darkos (except possibly Bargs) They are stars there and will be at least respectable here.
Do we have any of these guys for sure? Hope so.
As for other teams posting up Ford, it can be compensated for with a good team defence plan. Some of the guys we have are good enough athletes to pull it off. Only, they won't because our coach doesn't know how to teach it and will get fired for a lack of cohesion on the team.

Players who never played in the NBA until they did: everybody. No Europe isn't the same level of the NBA, but it's not the D League either. I say let's give Collangelo a chance to prove his Master Plan before crying over the fact that we didn't sign some stiff we *know* has minimum impact of a team (Trent Hassell? You really want to cry about Trent Hassell???). We've got a long road to haul, and frankly, need to luck out with a couple diamonds in the rough along the way to become a contender.

I almost completely agree with Franchise on this Jumpball. Howland â€" you honestly regret that Jalen Rose trade?????!!!! Gimme a frickin break, man.

A lot of assumptions being made with little or no basis at all. Noone writing on this blog or in these posts has seen our new Euros play enough to make an educated assessment, not that they could necessarily make an educated assessment even if they had. And why is "euro" starting to feel like a slanderous term? There have been plenty of busts on this side of the pond, too.

Bottom line to my point here: BC and co. are not signing these guys based on what they were able to glean from some highlight compilations on YouTube. We have to assume that they are trying their best to keep their jobs and live up to their reputations. In other words, they have scouted the shit out of these players.

Franchise is right: what NBA vet would you have preferred we overpay? The reported contracts offered up to Garbajosa and Parker are commensurate of players who will get between 20-30 minutes a game. They are substantial contracts, yes. But not unreasonable and they don't tie BC's hands going forward. The Nene contract is a wonderful and asinine example of what not to do when navigating a weak FA market.

Lastly, I don't know how it can be said that it's safe to say that Hassel would or could supply more for the Raptors than Parker. How is that safe to say? Based on what?

Josh,

Are you my PVR come to life? You must be for you to imply you know how much Euro we've watched, even when EXTREMELY boring. But maybe you're right... we simply shouldn't express opinions. That would howver likely take away from the point of the site which is to incite opinions and discussions.

In terms of Jalen, I thought that the deal would have opened the door for a bigger splash. Maybe these guys will be glue players, but not what I expected or wanted.

The term "Euro" is not slanderous. It's short for playing in Europe, or being European. We could talk about busts all day, everywhere regardless of location.

The Hassel point is this: I don't think his contract is crazy. In fact it's less than what Mo P got when Mo's numbers were very very comparable. We know he can play in the NBA, there is something to be said for that. I think taking the known over the unknown implies safer. The true point is however, that James walked for nothing. Of course everyone has the right to their opinion....at least the last time I checked......

I don't see where I wrote you couldn't express your opinion, Howland. I simply disagree whole-heartedly. Disagreements can make for great discussions. ANd I DO know how much Euro you've watched. I'm watching you right now..... Get that finger outta there!

No seriously, I appreciate your reply. And I take your point, re. James walking. But I'd rather let him walk than sign/trade him for the sake of it. I really am not a Hassel fan if you couldn't tell.

PS. thanks for the explanation of the term "euro", I honestly thought it meant ***face.

Josh

I knew there was something up with that new camera in my office.....