Hot Potato - CV Smooth is the Latest Raptor Moved

Excellent article. This is the best website for Raptor talk. Very knowledgeable and very insightful.

My opinion: Trading Charlie V scares me. I think he has a long career as one on the the better sf/pf in the league. But I can understand the trade, because there is always a supply of good pf/sf versus a very select supply of top point guards. TJ Ford will be the best pg the Raptors have ever had, but if he only stays 1 year this trade will be a mistake. I just wish we had gotten a little more for Charlie V.

Very sad to see Charlie go! Good baller; quality person; lots of potential. Ford is a welcome piece to the puzzle but I'll have to wait a few days to celebrate a solid PG addition while I mourn the loss of CV Smooth.

Someone needs to say it first (and I don't read Toronto news, its independent internet news for me, so I may be wrong, but . . . .)

Toronto: JP Ricciardi, BJ Ryan, AJ Burnett, TJ Ford, PJ Tucker.

Anyway, still confused by the trade although much of my anger from last-night has subsided somewhat. I need to find a way to avoid posting things when mad (especially after the 50+ Raps losses each year) . . .

My first thought after learning about the trade was "that's all we got for CV3?". I'm a bit concerned about Ford's durability, toughness, and consistency as an outside shooter. But, I have to admit that (assuming we can sign him to an extension) we finally have a pass-first PG that can run our offence. I don't recall what Ford's defence is like, so no comment on that.

When I take a step back and think about the Raptors situation, I think we needed to trade one of the forwards. As you guys went through the thinking, CV3 was the odd man out. I guess a future of a "three towers" was just wishful thinking. I'm surprised Colangelo couldn't get another draft pick out of this deal. CV3 looks like a future allstar (assuming he maintains his focus and drive) - best wishes to you, Charlie.

Now, does anyone else think Colangelo is going to go after Predrag Stojakovic to complete team "United Nations"? Also, I have a suspicion that there is another trade (or two) up Colangelo's sleeve. Also, now that the Raptors are slowly becoming Phoenix North, Sam Mitchell may not be fired. He no longer needs to teach defence (seeing as he says he can't teach defence anyway) and just needs to focus on motivating guys to work hard, rebound, and score. Maybe Mitchell is sticking around for a few years.

I also felt like this was coming but I had hoped for a lot more than TJ Ford. I must say that I'm disappointed in BC's vision for this team and I think he's making a big mistake. I love Ford's game but I am really worried about his injuries and ability to stay healthy.

As for Bargnani now takiing CV's place at the 3, I really think CV has more to offer. He might not lick it from downtown like Andrea but I'm sure he's a much better low-post scorer (CV's baby hook was awesome), he rebounds much better, appears much more athletic, and was the best passing big on our team.

I just don't understand why BC couldn't have let all three bigs (Bosh, CV and Andrea) play one year together and see if they could make it work?

Good blog post. It's funny, I was doing the same thing at my job, I grabbed the ranking list of PGs from the RealGM website and was working through trade scenarios for each of my faves. I didn't think that TJ would be available. While I worry that in 5 years this might look like a horrible trade, I think it had to be done. Anyways, do you honestly think that the Raptors would be able to keep CV, CB4 and Bargnani past their rookie deals? That's why there's a salary cap. TJ won't break the bank, but he'll always be an underrated reason for the teams success. Too many teams have lop-sided rosters and won't even them out because they are afraid of looking bad. Look at Denver, had they moved one of their PF's for a SG last year, they would have been deadly. They didn't need an all-star, just someone solid, but they chose to keep tonnes of talent at one position and let it rot on their bench. I think this is another example of B-Co being smarter than everyone else. Not necessarily Larry Harris, as he got a great return for his PG, but compared to how other GMs (Paging Mr. Babcock...) would have sat on their hands and complained about the offers.

-brad

Are things so slack at MT that you have time for these debates? If so, sign me up!

First of all, thanks for hosting the draft party - a good time was had by all, even if I drank a few too many Creemores.

I already made my arguments for Ford in the other blog, so I won't repeat them here. As for Charlie leaving, I am very sad to see him go; good guy with lots of offensive potential who genuinely liked playing for Toronto. He did have some holes in his game. He was a sneaky good offensive rebounder but not so great on the defensive boards, particularly when asked to box out. He wasn't a great individual defender, although to be fair, he was asked to guard quicker players at the small forward spot. But the Raptors will definitely miss his low post scoring ability and his passing smarts. The Bucks got themselves a player.

I think it was Howland who pointed out that there is probably more pressure on Bargnani to succeed than any other player that BC could have picked. That is even truer today. However, AB has played in pressure situations before and I think in the long run he'll be fine. I hope Raptor fans have a little patience with him. At worst, I think he will approximate CV as a player.

I'm with you guys on the Daniels issue - this guy's a player. Granted he's got a few years left on his contract, but he's a good athlete who really doesn't have any glaring weaknesses in his game. He would be a great backup for Mo, and he has enough size to even play a little bit of small forward.

Out of the free agents you listed, I think the only that I have any interest in is Salmons. He's like Mardy Collins; not a great athlete, but he knows how to ball and can fill in at a variety of spots. Nene is intriguing but he's coming off knee surgery and I think you're going to have to overpay to get him. Banks is overrated. Nazr is a nice player but I think he's more of a traditional half court centre, and I think BC wants a run and gun team. Under no circumstances do I want Bonzi Wells - I have no confidence in a guy who turns it on for a contract year, and he's a bad apple to boot. If you're just looking for scoring off the bench and someone to back up at the 2 spot, Flip Murray will probably go for cheap. He can score, although he doesn't do much else.

Can we now expect to see Ukic in a Raptor uniform? I know he's a PG, but at 6'5" you'd think that you can play him at the 2 guard spot as well.

That's enough for now. I welcome your comments.

it's an excellent move. hate to see charlie v. go but as they say , you need to give quality guys to get the same.
t.j. must show some toughness ala calvin murphy or muggsy bougges . cut down the smiling . the last playoff with the pistons , tj showed more of his smile than a toothpaste commercial.
the ' toughness' issue has not been addressed by bryan .they said the incoming rookie tj is tough but he's just a rook.

One more comment: Please, not Peja, at any price. He couldn't guard his shadow and he folds like a cheap suit under pressure. Bibby always ended up taking the big shots in Sacramento, and with good reason.

I'm with you Hans. You can feel the Stojakovic move coming.

Like Brad said, when the rookie deals run out, there waw no way we'd be keeping the big three, as well as Graham if he works out like BC and Mitchell expect him to.

The PG has been a major issue for a while here, and as long as TJ stays healthy (Which he should considering that was a freak accident injury) this trade will help us.

Overall we will have traded more talent away, but need superseeded that basis as the reason for making this trade, which in my mind, will end up being a success.

After reflecting on it, I rather like the trade. To me it's a question of impact: with the style of team being put together, the 1 is a crucial role and we needed a star player. While Charlie V is an excellent player at the moment, his relative impact on a team chock full of big guys with perimeter skills would be somewhat lessened. On the other hand, no one would deny we had a gaping hole at point guard, at a time when the FA availability at the position is virtually nonexistent. With TJ, I think we get a nice combination of present skill and future potential (remember he's just like a year older than CV).

And I agree it's tough to see CV go, especially considering his massive potential to be a star. But sometimes that's just the price you have to pay. We really didn't have many other assets that could get us a point guard as good as the one we got.

The main knock against TJ for me seemed to be his "injury history". But check out the link below (which is hopefully all true) and that should alleviate most of your concerns.

http://www.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=399359&highlight=

Tough to see CV3 go but I like T.J. & willing to see what he's got. Bosh will be happy with his boy. B.C. did say he is NOT finished and would like to get a como guard to compliment T.J. Some players that their teams may be willing to trade (rumors): Childress/Dixon/M.Danials & Pietrus (France freak) who could be a nice fit. Free agents: Fred Jones/Rasual Butler/John Salmons. Most of these players have eaten our food anyways in past games. What do you raptor fans think?

I'm with the folks who would like to see M Daniels in a Raps uniform. But the stumbling blocks to getting the deal done with Dallas are substantial, most particularly the length of contract the Mavs are willing to extend to James. But there seems to be a lot of interest from teams in the West so let's hope we can pull a player of value instead of just letting James walk.

I don't know if I stand alone on this one but I would LOVE to see Bonzi Wells come to Toronto. Forget Peja, we have shooters. Give me a hardened thug of a shooting guard who can post up, rebound... His bad apple days are behind him. The guy's 28, not a stupid kid anymore. I think he would be a fun compliment to our outside shooting bigs. I can just see it, Bonzi and PJ Tucker abusing opposing guards down low and our bigs spotting up for 15ft and beyond jumpers. I read that he wants to go to Detroit. But of all the FAs available, and given the current makeup of the roster, Bonzi gets my vote. Anyone agree?

Pietrus would be an interesting fit. Too bad GState has no real need for James. I also like the idea of Fred Jones, a very athletic player who has shown some potential when given minutes. When Ford and Rasho start that is 2 players with below average offensive abilities; we need a perimeter player who can score and play a little D. Joey G just ain't that guy yet, if he ever will be.

The only free agent that can replace CV is Al Harrington who would again give us a surplus at the 4, but I suppose he could play some 3 like CV did. I was disappointed with the draft, but this is worse. Of course, we had a glaring need at point guard, but what is harder to find in the league; a fast 98lb. pg that is easy for opposing guards to post up (Billups, Kidd.....) and can be left open while double teaming Bosh, or a 2nd offensive scorer,runner-up R.O.Y, improving dramatically since his college years, 6'11", nice, future 20/10 man consistantly who actually says he wants to play his ENTIRE CARREER IN TORONTO!!!

You easily could have waited 1 year, see if Bargnani can put up CV-like #s in his rookie year and then decide who in fact is expendable. It wouldn't be a bad thing for a new GM to evaluate all of his assets for 1 year, save cap space and then if AB proves himself, and if you're that high on him, trade CV, when he has even more trade value, especially in a year with a stronger draft and free agent class!!

You can't say that TJ Ford is such a huge upgrade from Speedy Claxton, Earl Boinkins, Jay Williams, or even Calderone or Ukic, all of whom could have meant allowing us to maintain our 2nd scoring option for the next several years.

Truth is in the House!

House I completely disagree with you. Ford is only 24 years old and he is still going to improve. He is super quick and takes the ball to the basket in an age where you touch a player and its a foul. When you put him in the same class as Claxton, Boikins, Williams and Calderone you are not being reasonable. Also I would say it is MUCh harder to find a good pass first point guard then a 6'10 guy who maybe will score 20 ppg some day. I dont think he will ever be a 20/10 guy becuase he really only plays offense. He is not a good defensive rebounder.

I like CV I but he still has not been able to shed the 'soft' lable. You think maybe the Raptors coaching staff knows more about him then we do? I hope CV has a good career and I hoped Colangelo could maybe get a pick or something thrown into a deal but perhaps the Bucks noticed that Toronto had basically no point guards on their roster and took advantage.

Seems Peja has been offered a deal by the Hornets and its around 12 million a year!! for 5 years!!! I don't see how he can refuse that as thats waaay more than i thought he is worth and if Indiana loses him Larry Bird looks worse than Babcock did when he traded vince for all that "stuff"
I am sad to see Charlie go for sure but TJ is young and he is as guy who can be a 10 assist guy and he is quick as lightning. toronto fans have never seen bosh play with a real point and a real c and we finally ahve that so lets watch the rest of the plan unravel!

Hey guys, we won 27 games. 27!!! We sucked. No two ways about it. You want Colangelo to make us a better team; he's going to have to shake up the roster. He's a GM not a coach. That's how he makes teams better. We had 11 PFs, for chrissakes. This is Bosh's team, we need players to compliment him, not compete. That's why we got Rasho, no offensive competition with Bosh, but provides defensive help. Next up PG. Honestly, wow long have we all been complaining of not having a legit PG? Seriously.

Well think of all the attainable PGs out there. Ford was by far the best and youngest. Sure CV was a great guy and had tons of upside. But in all reality, we gave up one of our many backup PFs for a starting PG. Stop whining. We really needed a PG. There were none in the draft, and there won't be in next year's either. FAs won't sign in TO (this just in Cassell resigned with Clippers).

And if you want trade for a good PG in the NBA (hard to find), you have to give up quality. As much as we wanted noone was going to trade EWill, Hoffa, and Alvin Williams for Nash.

I know it hurts. We all loved CV. But a gang of lovable losers does not a winning team make. So let BC do what he has to do to make us better. And wish CV the best in his new town where he gets to play the position he was born to play.

Let's not start thinking that this current Raptors roster is going to make serious noise in the East; they should improve over last year but even that is not a certainty. I hate to say this only a few days after the draft, but I think we have one more lottery to go. Think of pairing Bosh, Bargnani and Ford with a young athletic wing player - say for example Kevin Durant, Julian Wright, Rush etc. The thought almost makes me giddy. Someone also threw out the names Dorrell Wright and Trais Outlaw, but I would be less excited about those guys. Not trying being negative as i think they are on the right track, but trying to look at this from a long-term perspective.

Well, Peja's gone already--signed with the Hornets. Raps didn't need him anyway.

I think Colangelo's last order of business should be an ATHLETE, we still don't have anyone who plays above the rim. If you could sign-and-trade James for a guy like this I would be thrilled. My pick would be Fred Jones. His shot is improving, but that doesn't matter to the Raps. He can run and jump and can play some solid D to back up Peterson and be an excellent 6th man.

Bonzi Wells is an old 28, he looks like he's disinterested and I can only imagine it would be worse if you sign him to a long term deal. However, he would fit a lot of their needs too, so I wouldn't be against signing him either.

Ford is a much better player than Claxton or Boykins, who are both basically undersized shooting guards. Jay Williams? I don't see anyone rushing out to procure his services. Calderon is a nice backup, but I think that's his limit.

Bonzi Wells is probably the best talent out there, but I get nervous about a guy with a bad apple history who suddenly turns it on at the end of a contract year. Let someone else roll the dice on him. I don't think Salmons, Childress or Pietrus are necessarily bad options, although I wouldn't overpay for any of those guys. Fred Jones is a good player although he's not the combo guard that BC is apparently looking for.

Bonzi Wells is not coming to Toronto. There is no way the Raps want him, and unless they threw an incredible amount of cash at him there is no way he would come here. Chemistry is very important, and Bonzi is the kind of guy who can destroy that very quickly. I could see him fitting in with a veteran laden team in Detroit, but certainly not in TO.

I found this posted in another blog so am not taking credit for it, but found it to be a great read. Bonzi Wells, role model.

http://men.style.com/gq/features/full?id=content_4103&pageNum=3

What about just bringing back James? He could start at 2 and play a little pg here and there. He may be the best player avail unless the Raps can find someone that wants to dump a contract for a SG/SF.

the only way james is coming back is if he accepts the mid level salary . james is good but expensive. the mavs will likely steal him unless colangelo manage to do a sign and trade.
oh yes , there is another way . james can come to t.o. as a maple leaf to replace tie domi . the hockey team may need a boxer !

trade peterson graham and humphries for an amazing SG like allen iverson of course we would have to sweeten the deal but we get that combo guard iverson is on the market and we would have a perfect team sign jay williams to back up ford and you have starting lineup of ford, iverson, bargnani, bosh and nesterovic... colangelo MUST be thinking about how to get iverson even though cap is an issue to but peterson has a pretty big contract

What Poppa says is true; we'll definitely need another draft with a good pick next year to really see the show going. I believe this FA class is WEAK! I'd play it out with what we have until next year. I can say with the current roster now we SHOULD improve in the W column (not including injuries to any of the players).

Does anyone know how much cash we got in that Ford - CV trade? Why couldn't Colangelo get a draft pick?!? Next year's crop would be way better than this years!

Peterson actually has a very small contract. Im surprised at how quiet the Raps have been in FA so far. No rumours or anything. I really thought they would be a player for Peja but that contract the Hornets offered probably scared them off.

I hope they can do something with this cap room or that trade that sent Rose to NY would end up meaning they lost out on a guy like Marcus Williams for nothing.

As far as the cash received in the Ford deal, I think it was along the lines of $1 million.

WAY too much for Ford. House nailed it. Patience! Could have been much more creative in finding a point guard down the road rather than trading a bonafide stud for a slight improvement at the point. Quickness with no shot at the point - don't we already have that with Jose??? Already broke up Tracy and Vince and now this! Didn't he and CB4 refer to each other as brothers from different mothers????? Well, I'm actually not that surprised considering it was obvious form the outset that BC was never as high on CV3's game as the rest of the world.... Anyone want to buy a jersey?

I believe the Ford / Villanueva trade was made by Colangelo to make Bosh happy by bringing in one of his best buddies from Texas so he would sign a new long term deal after telling him they would pass on LaMarcus Aldridge (another buddy from Texas) for Bargnani.

i also think that BC should of pushed as hard as he could to get a draft pick from milwaukee for next year as next years draft is ............ LOADED!! but TJ ford is a great addition to our young team and our future run and gun style. I am also sad to see charlie go because (in my opinion) he HAS all-star potential. He was also great in the communitty and charlie good luck in milwaukee .... except when the raptors are facing the bucks lol

I know it sounds like I'm drinking the Raptor Kool Aid but this is going to be one fun team to watch. The European players like Garbajosa and Parker can shoot the ball. If Salmons signs here that would be great. He has Tim Thomas coupe written all over him. With Ford pushing the tempo and making great passes. Buckel up Raptor fans your in for a ride.

I know this is a delayed post, I just came across this site but has anyone thought about the degree of difficulty to completely change the Raptors into Phoenix style of play? Any thoughts on that, the closest thing the Raps have to the Suns was the 3 balls, but James and other ex-raps had a big factor in that. Hope the new roster raises some eyebrowns this season.