CV for TJ

Wow I am in disbeleif...One of the faces of our franchis gets trade for a beat up PG and some cash CONSIDERATION....frig and the day before canada day. BC must not know that... anyways I gotta go to sleep. (doubt I will though)

I need to respond somewhere . . .

What is Colangelo doing? Genius? Still working for the Suns? The new Isiah Thomas?

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Villanueva, while having great passing skills, is redundant with Mr. Bargnani in the fold (no pressure rookie, don't worry, you just have to START and average 15 pts. in your first year and fill in for a guy who was 2nd in rookie voting).
And they trade him for Mr. Spine Injury?? Huh??? A dynamic player, but can Ford defend? can he stay healthy?--keep him away from Alvin, this stuff can be contagious and they might just kill each other.

I am totally floored.

man i'm really really disappointed with this trade --

an eventual all-star for an injury prone pg?

not to mention i was really looking forward to the matchup problems a CB/AB/CV front court was going to cause.

BC better hope this one works cuz Charlie was popular.

we should have at gotten magloire with thet trade.. guess bargnani gone be starting nex season...

I am absolutely devastated. CV for a guy we could have got for nothing in free agency in a year or two. WOW. Worst trade ever, and I love Colangelo. I cried. Straight up? What the F???????????? More tears. We'll be better for a few years, but an allstar for a liability kills me. I thought the GM fiasco's were over. No Magloire to boot? We could have had a top 5 and we decide on TJ "my spine does'nt work" Ford???? Explain.

dont tj ford only have 1 year let on his contract?

wow, im with you guys and apparently everyone else so far...not a happy camper right now.

i didn't think these two would be that close in a straight up deal. ya, not a happy reaction on this trade. going to need a long, horse tranquilizer induced sleep.
just leaves me thinkin that bargnani better have a crazy engine because skill wise cv and him seem to be on par.

Its sort of like BC chose TJ ford and Bargnani over Adam Morrison and CV3
what do you guys think?

BC wants a fast moving offence a la Phoenix.

CV was good, but the sacrifice will no doubt be worth while if it means that there are open shots galour for CB, AB, and Mo Pete.

Faster and smoother basketball here we come!

Think big guys - fast, mobile, passing PG + he is young.

It wasn't cheap to get him (will give the benefit of the doubt regarding injuries) but he can grow with CB and AB, and just think of the open shots he can provide to CB, AB, Mo Pete etc...

Less grind, more fast and smooth baskets - uncontested points!

I'm In disbelief cv smooth value is higher than that at least should of had magloire in the deal. Hope Ford stays healthy, i like ford but not at this price. Im too pissed to write anymore!!!

Like the trade. It is unfortunate that we lost Charlie V., but people saying a banged up PG (if it wasn't for the freak accident - to TJ) and he has only been in the league 3 years. Toronto fans are in for a real treat watching a player like TJ. Next to Chris Paul, TJ is the quickest PG in the game. He will have an awesome year with us, and will help Jose Calderon to. We are in dire needs of a pass first (But can score at will - when needed PG) and TJ is that guy. Every one in Toronto will love this guy. Again sorry that we had to lose a guy like Charlie, but Colangelo know how to build a team.

Devastating! CV's trade value would be soooooo much higher after next year and we'd have 1 year of development under Bargnani's belt to see if CV is really expendable. I was disappointed with Collangelo after the draft, but this hurts more! If CV was that expendable I would have rather seen Rudy Gay in a Raptors uniform, or better still a high 1st rounder next year. TJ Ford? please tell me BC thinks April fools is June 30th in Canada.

Also, it is too bad toronto bball fans fall in love with players (which is not a bad thing - but they freak out when they get dealt) ie. Charlie V (who I hate to see go - but love TJ Ford - awesome PG. Or even like Matt Bonner (who is very likeable - but cannot play defense (esp. defending the pick and roll) to save his life. If we want to win long term - playoffs and championships - we need key players (esp. Point Guard - pass first) and now we have two. Awesome job by Brian C. so far.

this is a good trade injury prone he had one injury and he is fine now I think he is the best young point in the leauge the raps will make the playoffs next year and still have a young core and do you think BC is done trading look for him to pick up an all star SG you guys are babies cv was good but he wont be an all star and at the start of the year im getin the new raptors jersey and its gonna say ford on the back bunch of babies

Not too happy. I actually liked the pick at 7 last year, I'm serious here, and it's hard to see CV go when AB hasn't played a single NBA game yet. If AB is a bust, this will set the franchise back a long way.

Maybe we should have seen what would unfold with free agency, or at least wait til next summer. CV will be an absolute star in this league while the bucks board on ESPN is already talking about TJ's lack of D and how Billups worked him on the post up in the playoffs.

Give BC a break. He sees the reality of CV;s game. The reason he had so much success in his first year was because the raps front line was so thin. He's a bad defensive player all round. Hes can't play D on fours, he's too slow to play D on threes, and he can't grab defensive boards. Ford is the next nash. Hes got the speed, and is developing a above average offensive game.

for all you people calling for colangelo's head...he knows a pass-first point gaurd is where you start...im pretty sure BC isnt worrying about CV being a fan favourite--im sorry to see him go but who were we going to trade? the other 6'10"ish #3/#4 on the roster...bidness is bidness...for all you people crying[??!!] TJ will be fine--just give him a chance [he'll sign long term, im sure]...i likes

Have a little faith, guys. Colangelo has a great track record with pass-first point guards, so he knows what he's doing. If you look at the alternatives out there, there aren't many good options for picking up a point guard. Only a few teams have an extra point guard, and how many of those would give up their starter? I'm sure Colangelo called them all.

I agree that Villanueva is more valuable than Ford, but it's a seller's market for point guards, so the Bucks probably had a 'take it or leave it' stance on the deal.

TJ point up 12.2 points and 6.6 assists last season with no one to pass to but Redd. What do you think will happen when he starts running a Sam Mitchell offence where even Mike James put up 6 assists? It'll be a good match with Ford, trust me.

Don't forget, we still have money to fill the whole created by Charlie leaving? Let's be patient and see what the Raptors look like in October.

At first I was shocked that they gave up CV, but on reflection, the only way they were going to get a quality PG was by trading Charlie. There aren't any free agent points in Ford's class out there.

Losing CV hurts, but in general you have to focus on what you're getting in a trade, not what you're giving up (unless you're dumping a sack of crap like Hoffa).

Positives:

1) Ford is a pass first point guard who can get to the bucket, lead the break and defend adequately. I think the one "position" player you need in the Colangelo system is a true point, and Ford is definitely that.

2) He's a winner, or at least he has been at every level he's played at so far.

3) His shooting has improved to the point where it's no longer a weakness: 49% from the field, 40% from 3 point range and almost 92% from the charity stripe.

4) He's not an older veteran with a limited future; he's a young guy who should only get better.

Negatives:

1) Call me crazy, but spinal injuries make me nervous. I assume BC did his homework on this one.

2) He is a free agent at the end of the year, so there's always the chance he could bolt.

On the whole, though, I think the trade works. As an aside, for all the talk about this being an international squad, the Raptors have just brought in two fellow Texans (Tucker and Ford) to keep Bosh company.

While I grew to really like Charlie as a Raptor I am not unhappy with the deal. Ford has a few yers under his belt and in the "new" NBA he is the perfect kind of guard. You also have to keep in mind that BC got a C and a PG without having to dip into the FA money. Now he can go after a guy like Peja or Harrington instead of having to overpay for an average PG.

Would you guys rather have Ford and Peja or Claxton and CV?

BC better hope that Ford signs long term. Of course, from a cap situation - u use up cap space RIGHT now, trying to get Ford to extend. What if Ford doesn't extend? Then this trade is a wash.

I'd rather wait.

Now, if u can't get a SF without over paying - who is gonna score up front if Bosh gets injured.

Andrea better produce and produce fast. Trading a 6'11 guy who is working hard this summer to improve on this D? And boy the bucks front line is gonna KILL US.

What a relief to see that there are some people who understand why this trade was made. As I read the thread from the top I was laughing my ass off at how people can so lose the plot. But as I worked my way down I started to see some reason. This trade is a scary one, I'll grant you. I'm sure we all hope at this point that CV turns out to be more like Antoine Walker and less like Bernard King. But don't spew crap about how the franchise is now lost at sea, give me a frickin break. Pro sports is all risk/reward and Villanueva is not a blue chip future hall-of-famer just because he wound up second in ROY voting. Get a grip. Yeah he poured in 48 points one game as a rookie â€" we still lost that game, folks.

We've got TJ Ford now, people. This guy isn't some bag of hammers. BC sold high and bought low and my guess is, when all is said and done you poor despondent souls will be cheering this trade when you see how fast and smart he is. Damn right he can play D...

So chin up lil fellas, and dry your tears. Pure PGs are far more rare and precious in this league than slick scorers believe it or not.

^How do you figure? Bosh will destroy Charlie, as much as I like him. Bogut and Bargnani is a wash, or will be in a few years when AB develops.

Guys, it seems that the rash, angry posts came early, and the sensible, intelligent posts came late. This was the right trade, hell i loved Charlie just as much as the rest of you, but I'm willing to see him go if it means we make the playoffs. I believe that BC is doing a fantastic job, Rap's fans complain when Babcock is passive, and then turn around and complain about aggressiveness. We need to make up our minds and stop being hypocritical. I believe that he will make this team a playoff team, and maybe a contender within the decade. So instead of screaming and whining, let's give the guy a break, give him some time, and watch some exciting basketball.

" Bosh will destroy Charlie, as much as I like him"

Not if CV takes him outside. Naturally, CV is a better scorer, where Bosh is a better all round player.

Until I see AB do this thing, Bogut gets the edge.

Only time will tell...

But right now we need some scoring

Would you guys rather have Ford and Peja or Claxton and CV?

-Great point Dan. Colangelo had made the basic moves that needed to be made (bye bye Hoffa, Eric Williams etc) but was staring straight at a loaded gun of Marcus Banks and Speedy Claxton in free agency. Not exactly Magic Johnson and Pistol Pete...

So unless we wanted to continue our run of not making the playoffs, and hoping that we grabbed a point guard in next year's draft, (tough as most of the top prospects are bigs again) this deal had to be made.

Charlie is a good guy and all but hey, he was on a shitty team. it ain't hard to shine on a shitty team. look at lamond murray in cleveland or ricky davis wherever he goes.
And i recall him being a pretty soft finisher anyway. And his rebounding...horrible. Ford averaged almost as many and he's barely 6 feet tall.

Ford anchored a playoff team. he is as injury prone as anybody. he was injured in a motorcycle accident and lost a year. he had the drive to come back and play his ass off.

Plus he's a point guard! in this league a true point is very rare. someone who wants to make his teamates better. you can count them on one hand. and he's only 23 - as possible a future all star as charlie. less so if you think of the competition at 3/4's for the considerable future.

what the raptors need is balls, toughness, and speed. the team and the fanbase need the balls to let a guy like charlie grow elsewhere, if he can. now that he's got nothing to prove we will see. and beware the sophomore curse...

i think signing peja is a mistake. he has shown questionable health and guts when the going gets tough. i like the idea of daniels from dallas - now this guy can play and will have a lot to prove to el cubano et al.

we need to become a team, play all five positions.

i'm personally gonna miss Bonner more. He was a laugh to watch.

This is BS,.. CV was develp... and would have helped our franchise..Welll u will have to deal with it next year.. and u prob no what ur doing.. good luck..CV.. welc.. mr. ford

Well, the Peja thing is moot, as he will apparently sign a 5 year deal with the Hornets, of all teams. I don't care where he signs, as long as it's not here. A few years ago he was an MVP candidate. Now, he's strictly a one dimensional player with a reputation for folding under pressure. And you know that someone's going to overpay just because of what he did in Sacramento a few years back.

$64 million for Peja over five years? That's insane. Why do teams work so hard to get under the cap and then blow their load on the first free agent that walks by? I don't get it.

This is a great trade, CV Soft...or sorry I mean "Smooth" was and remains overrated after his rookie year...it was the perfect time to trade him. We get a very good pass first point guard who is young and improving (already a 12 and 6 guy) with the potential to be great for a guy who put up good numbers on a very poor team, that played a purely offensive game, while being coddled the whole time...BC saw this from the get go and I think Sam reinforced it. Watch as TJ excels and busts ankles and CV (as much as I love the guy) fades into mediocrity while fans fall in love with his baby hook and then scream when he plays no D and loses PT because of it. This team will be well balanced and have an "edge" to it not seen since the Oaktree era and BC's not done yet...I'm pretty darned excited.

Hmmmm.....at first glance I was blown away.....but you have to step back and look at the bigger picture.....CV plays Bosh's position that why last year ESPN commentators went off on Babcock....but he turned out to be an excellent choice, but it points back to he plays Bosh's position so he's the odd man odd with a good upside....No BC didn't become Exec of the year by chance ....there something that most of us haven't seen, Baganani play, only on clips....which is pretty different then seeing him up close and personal. Now back to the trade we needed a PG james is on the way out looking for a big payday.......Now TJ was hurt, but you have to remember he had his back fixed and played 72 games last year. He just has to stay healthy just like any other player in the league. Be prepared for 2 more trades Our front court look good we now have a centre pass first guard......all we need now is to improve the bench......

Remember it's a business..........!!!

great trade....for the guys saying tj ford has a bad spine you guys don't know ball....this kid is probably the fastest
guard in the league and is a pass first guard unlike the guard we had last year who shall remain nameless who did not see a shot he didn't like.....i like charlie and wish him the best but realistictly he had to be constantly pushed, i hear and cannot play d to save his life! also for a big man his rebounding left a lot to be desired especially with his athleticism....i think the raptor fas bringing down tj ford just don't know about him, i loved his game coming out of texas and he mighta been just as big a star as chris bosh had he not gotten hurt

I think this was a good trade for the raptors, its hard to see cv go but look at the bigger picture we getting back a very talented and quick and pass first pg that will make the players around him better, not like shot happy mike james, have some faith guys this team is going to be competitive and hard working.

Personally I hated this trade, I really liked CV and I'm a Raptors fan. I'm a simple person and in my opinion you never trade a young, 3-point shooting big man for a 6-0 PG. PG's are a lot easier to come by, how many 6-11 guys have you met in your life.

This trade was almost as bad as the Carter trade, which was an horrific trade. Its almost as bad as drafting Rafael Araujo in the first round. Its almost as bad as drafting Rafael Araujo, period. The major problem I have is that with CV the upsides are so apparent and achieveable. Where as with TJ Ford its all, "well u have to take risk to get better". Hope, and maybe's. TJ is probably a very good guard but I never make that trade.

Chris

Again, this is the right move.

TJ is a young, quick PG entering his prime. He's equally comfortable creating shots in a half-court offense or using his speed to ingite a fast break. The only PG I wanted more was Kirk Hinrich.

Charlie didn't have the drive or strength to take over on the interior and many of his inside shots looked more lucky then accurate. The feel for the game and outside stroke were nice, but we needed an interior scorer and rebounder in his roster spot. Here's hoping Bargnani's frame fills out to 7'1" 260 before we have to decide on his third year option.