The Draft Scenarios - Trading Down

by RaptorsHQ - Archives on Jun 12, 2006 6:13 AM EDT

Previously at RaptorsHQ, we had a poll asking what the Raps should do with the top pick.

Most people voted to trade our top pick to the Knicks for their next seven...

While I wouldn't put anything past Isiah Thomas, I don't think this will happen. (Or the Raptors would probably only get the Knicks next five.) But the second most popular choice on our poll was indeed a very plausible option - the idea of trading down.

So far the rumour mill has been spouting out the "trading down" scenario as the most likely event for GM Bryan Colangelo and co. as well. Besides the daily Bargnani and Aldridge speculation, various sources have reported that the Raptors principle target in trading down scenarios, is Marcus Williams. Of course as we discussed in his workout report, Williams would be a great fit for the Raptors and would address one of their pertinent needs. The question is, where would Toronto trade down to acquire him?

For speculative purposes, let's take a look at some of the options that have been bandied about - from reader comments to, the latest Vescy-esque proposals, to more plausible situations starting with Charlotte at the number 3 spot and working on down. Like a children's story from Slick Rick, heeeeeeeeeere we go...

Trade the number 1 pick and Eric Williams to Charlotte for the number 3 pick and Brevin Knight.

Why would Toronto do it?

First of all, the trade would give Toronto the point guard it desperately needs. Brevin Knight has been a bright spot for Charlotte over the past two seasons and would easily be the best PG on the Raps. He comes from a pass-first mold and while a bit injury prone, is a solid defender and consistently one of the league's top thieves. Sure Toronto falls two spots in the draft but it seems likely that there will still be a solid player there in Bargnani, and maybe even Aldridge or Thomas depending on which way the Bulls go. The talk in Chicago is that they want Thomas, or even Brandon Roy. In addition, the Raptors finally move Mr. Malcontent Eric Williams.

Why would Charlotte do it?

Now that Raymond Felton has picked up his game and looks to have the Charlotte PG position locked up for the next 7-10 years, Brevin Knight's value to that team has been drastically reduced. The question is does Charlotte value a guy so much that they are willing to make the move to be sure they get their number one choice. Rumors are Charlotte likes Morrison and Gay...so do they need to move up for one of them? Seems doubtful but if they feel someone else (aka Portland or others) would move up and take their guy, they could pull the trigger.

Verdict: With the amount of rumors surrounding Brevin Knight, it seems very likely that he will be moved this off-season. Him coming to Toronto though probably depends on if Charlotte feels they can get the player they want in the draft at 3. Oh, and they may pass on Eric Williams (as everyone else seems to have done.)

Trade the number 1 pick and Alvin Williams for Darius Miles, Jarrett Jack and the number 4 pick.

Why would Toronto do it?

As much as Alvin Williams is loved for his grit and attitude, right now heâ€™s not playing and is very expensive cheerleader. The Raptors in this deal would rid themselves of his contract, acquire some depth at point guard in Jack, obtain a talented multi-dimensional player in Miles and still have a shot at a great player (including Bargnani) at the 4 spot while not having to pay â€œfirst player chosen overallâ€ type salary.

Why would Portland do it?

The Blazers are a mess. The team is desperate to get rid of some of its immature and over-priced talent and Darius Miles is at the top of this list. The trade would allow them to move Miles and select whoever they wanted with the top pick speeding up the rebuilding process. With their current logjam at point guard, Jack could easily be moved as well to speed up the development of Sebastian Telfair.

Verdict: While on paper the Raps win this deal on talent acquired, itâ€™s not a great deal from a chemistry perspective. Miles will want to start, something unlikely with Villanueva playing the 3, and heâ€™s been locker room trouble everywhere heâ€™s played when he doesnâ€™t get his way. Plus, heâ€™s still got another four years on his deal and another blowup in Toronto would make him ridiculously hard to move. Toronto would have to be absolutely sure that Sam Mitchell could control Miles and that he could excel in their style of play (heâ€™s not exactly a defensive force) for them to pull the trigger on such a deal.

Trade the number 1 pick, the number 35 pick, Eric Williams and Pape Sow to Atlanta for the number 5 pick, Zaza Pachulia and Josh Childress.

Why would Toronto do it?

Once you move down past pick six there seems to be some consensus that the talent drops off. The feeling now is there are really six top players; Morrison, Aldridge, Thomas, Roy, Bargnani and Gay (in no particular order). So making a move down to 5, although risky, still ensures a solid player. Zaza is an undervalued centre and his contract is extremely reasonable for his numbers (11.7, 7.9 rebounds). Josh Childress has shown flashes and is a streaky player. He is extremely long and as a result a solid defender who could play a number of positions for Toronto. While he is not a guy who can really create is own shot, heâ€™s only been in the league for two years hence has a lot of room to grow. He would also be a great insurance policy for Morris Peterson and would definitely negate the loss of the 35th pick.

Why would Atlanta do it?

There is talk that the Hawks like Shelden Williams. If that is true they clearly want someone to man the centre position to either compliment Zaza or replace him. The question then is, how much better can a guy like Aldridge be than Shelden Williams? A lot. It's a heavy price to pay for the Hawks, and obviously Eric Williams is just filler for cap purposes, but there is a chance he could make an impact. The second round pick is a high one and has some value and although Pape Sow is not going to make or break the deal he would get minutes.

Verdict: A lot of the plausibility of this deal revolves around who Atlanta really wants to select and whoâ€™s available to them when they pick. If they have their hearts set on Shelden Williams, they probably stay put. However if getting a shot at Aldridge is tops on their list, then this trade makes sense as they get a stud 4/5 to go with their multi-positioned lineup. Plus moving Childress clears some of their logjam at the 3, they can bring in Eric Williams to help provide some veteran leadership and they can use the high second-round pick to grab perhaps a pure point guard or defensive presence. While this trade helps both teams, it really comes down to who Atlanta wants in the draft.

Trade the number 1 pick, Alvin Williams, Morris Peterson and Pape Sow for Paul Pierce and Dan Dickau

Why would Toronto do it?

Ok, so this is definitely a blockbuster and the Raps would fall completely out of the draft after making it. That being said, adding a guy like Paul Pierce is not something that you can simply blow off. Pierce had his best year as a pro last season (26.8, 6.7, 4.7) and adding him to this team would automatically make the Raps a player in the East. A line-up of Pierce, CV Smooth and Bosh would fill up the scoreboard and the team would have its BIG THREE. Dickau has no place in Boston and although he's barely a "good" PG, he and Calderon would simply have to get the ball down the floor to the other players. Although he played well with the Hornets a season ago, Boston would deal Dickau in a second. Is this too much to give up for the Raps? Well if you consider that the team would still have a ton of cap room and could add some parts via free agency to increase its depth, the Raptors would probably make the deal in a flash.

Why would Boston do it?

How serious is Danny Ainge about rebuilding? The Paul Pierce trade rumors arenâ€™t going away and even with Pierce, the Celtics simply arenâ€™t going forward or backward. A trade like this for the Celtics would give them a lot in return including two picks in the top seven. The Celtics could look to move the 7th pick to secure the services of a veteran and would be able to add another young stud to their front-court or add the so called "next Larry Bird" in Morrison. They would replace Pierce with Mr. Raptor (Mo P) and watch Alvin's contract expire. Would this get it done though? Would they ask for more, maybe 35 as well?

Verdict: Admittedly this trade looks highly unlikely on paper as soon as you hear or see the name Paul Pierce involved. Everyone saw the Raps and Lakers get taken on the Vince and Shaq deals so thereâ€™s no way Danny Ainge pulls the trigger on this right? Well the difference here is that Boston would be getting the number one pick in the draft back. Moving Pierce helps long-term cap-wise for Boston and could be a pre-emptive strike against any flare-ups between him and management should the Celtics struggle again next season. With the top pick, Ainge takes some of the pressure off his team to win now, and keeps building towards the future. Toronto would probably make this deal in a flash even though it means losing Morris Peterson, a sentimental and fan favourite but the whole thing really hinges on what direction Ainge wants to go. Are the Celts a team that wants to add another veteran or do they want to keep rebuilding and add another top flight youngster?

Trade the number 1 pick, Morris Peterson and Matt Bonner to Golden State for the number 9 pick, Jason Richardson and Andris Biedrins

Why would Toronto do it?

Falling this far in the draft is a risky proposition. The big six will easily be gone. That being said it is possible that a player like Marcus Williams could be on the board, or a Patrick O'Bryant. Bringing in Jason Richardson would add a tremendous amount of excitement and a player that is becoming a huge weapon for the Warriors. J-Rich is no longer just a dunker and is a guy who is committed to winning. When thinking about this trade scenario Ike Diogu could take the place of Biedrins but considering the Warriors would not give him up for Ron Artest, it is skeptical they would move him now. Biedrins is an "upside" player who has not gotten an enormous amount of time in GS but has the talent and size to play the five...at least better than Hoffa. He can block shots and bang and would be a good backup to a Patrick Oâ€™Bryant or Shelden Williams.

Why would Golden State do it?

Golden State has been looking for a serviceable 5 for a long time. Adding a player like Aldridge alongside Troy Murphy would be a huge upgrade to the front-court and would quickly put Foyle where he belongs...on the bench. Golden State is also cash-strapped thanks to some bad signings (weâ€™re talking about you Jr. Dunleavy)and knowing Mo P and Bonner come off the books after one year would have some value. Golden State also has a swingman waiting in the wings to replace J-Rich in the long term in Mickael Pietrus. Mo P would actually be a defensive upgrade at that position as well. Bonner would not add huge value other than the little cap space it would create next season but everyone loves a shooter.

Verdict: Moving J Rich would be tough. Heâ€™s a fan favourite, one of the leagueâ€™s most exciting players, and has improved his all-around game year after year despite Golden Stateâ€™s poor showings. Really for Golden State this deal, like so many proposed here, depends on how bad Golden State desires one of the top players in the draft. An athletic big like Aldridge might be a great fit to play with Baron Davis but who knows what direction GS is looking to go.

Trade the number 1 pick to Seattle for the 10th pick and Luke Ridnour.

Why would Toronto do it?

This is a trade that many of our readers have been in favour of for a while. Obviously the trade would address Torontoâ€™s needs at point and still give them a shot at a big like Patrick Oâ€™Bryant , Shelden Williams or Cedric Simmons with the 10th pick. It would also mean having more room salary wise as instead of paying first-overall money, youâ€™re paying for 10th.

Why would Seattle do it?

If Seattle is not sold on the platoon of Ridnour and Watson at point, and want a shot at an Aldridge or even Adam Morrison, then this deal makes sense for them. Putting Aldridge up front with scorers like Ray Allen and Rashard Lewis in the backcourt really makes this an interesting team and one that could challenge again for the playoffs in the West.

Verdict: We just donâ€™t see this trade happening for many reasons. First of all, we're not convinced that Seattle would be willing to let Ridnour go anywhere, even with Watson coming on board. Secondly, we're not sure Seattle craves any of the top few players enough to deal up that far as Aldridge would be fighting for time with their other developing â€œbigsâ€ Robert Swift and Johan Petro. And if Seattle is serious about re-signing Chris Wilcox, taking on a first-overall contract probably isnâ€™t something theyâ€™d even consider.

Trade the number 1 pick to Orlando for the rights to Fran Vazquez and the 11th pick.

Why would Toronto do it?

Vazquez would obviously address the Raptors needs at center and may be more willing to play for Toronto than Orlando based on Bryan Colangeloâ€™s rep with developing international talent. This could mean him actually coming over to the NBA before 2008, something it doesnâ€™t look like Vazquez will do right now with Orlando. And once again, Toronto would be saving some loot by acquiring the 11th pick instead of paying for the 1st and could choose one of the athletic swingmen like Rodney Carney expected to fall in that range.

Why would Orlando do it?

Another deal proposed by readers, if Orlando decides its time to cut its losses regarding Vazquez and move on, this trade makes sense. With the top pick they could choose a La Marcus Aldridge (who would make a great yin to the yang power of Dwight Howard up front) or even a Brandon Roy (someone the Magic reportedly covet) to a core of Jameer Nelson, Howard and Darko Milicic making this immediately a dangerous team in the East.

Verdict: Like the deal with Seattle, we donâ€™t see this happening either. If Orlando wants to move up (and is sounds like they do) they probably would prefer to fall in that 3-5 range and therefore are more likely to engage in talks with teams like Charlotte, Portland and Atlanta. In addition, from a Toronto perspective Iâ€™m not sure Colangelo would want to take on a risk like Vazquez who may decide he never wants to play in the NBA. Toronto needs to show some improvement this year from its top pick and trading for a player who may never show up just doesnâ€™t make much sense.

Trade the first pick to New Orleans for the 12th and 15th picks.

Why would Toronto do it?

If the Raptors are looking for depth, or an opportunity to get two picks for the price of one to facilitate further deals, this trade makes sense. By dealing the first overall pick they rid themselves of the salary attachments that go with it and still land two quality players to keep or deal.

Why would New Orleans do it?

With Chris Paul cemented in the backcourt, a talent like La Marcus Aldridge or local sensation Tyrus Thomas upfront makes for a great young nucleus. New Orleans needs to fill in some veteran help thus probably doesnâ€™t have the need for two first round picks and has money to spend so probably doesnâ€™t mind paying the first pick salary.

Verdict: Another unlikely deal. Toronto needs veteran help and unless they have a deal in place for one of the picks in exchange for such veteran assistance, adding two more young guns doesnâ€™t make much sense. Perhaps a permutation of the deal whereby we would acquire a Desmond Mason or a JR Smith is much more likely but so far there havenâ€™t been any rumors concerning either player coming to Toronto.

Trade the first pick to Indiana for Jermaine O'Neal.

Why would Toronto do it?

We're not sure. In fact the only reason we're mentioning this deal is because of various media reports yesterday including this one from the Boston Herald reporting that the Raptors are in talks about acquiring Jermaine for a package including the first pick in the draft. Anyone else find this deal a real head scratcher? If there's one player I would say Chris Bosh closely resembles in terms of athletic ability and "take the ball to the basket" game, it would be Jermaine O'Neal. Jermaine could play the 5 we suppose but just like having two Jason Kidds on the court at the same time, we're just not sure how this makes much sense and would probably reduce the effectiveness of both players. Secondly, we're not sure financially how this would work. O'Neal is still owed almost $75 million on his contract making a straight-up deal impossible. To take on Jermaine, the Raptors would have to give up Alvin Williams and probably another cheaper player to get under the salary cap. And even then, how would Toronto acquire any other free agent help? No, unless someone gives us some more concrete information and the other pieces of such a deal, we'll chalk this one up to rumors, rumors and more rumors.

So after reading these scenarios, what can one conclude? Well for starters, at this point there are still way too many rumors flying around to knock down which ones are fact and which ones are fiction. And that's fine because the draft is still over two weeks away. Take for example a few of the teams we neglected to discuss in this piece. Would Philly consider trading Allen Iverson to Toronto for a shot at the number one pick? Would Toronto want him? What about Utah or Houston? Would either of these teams covet the top pick enough to throw something enticing Bryan Colangelo's way? See, you can manufacture deals with almost any team!

I guess the point of this really was to get the discussion going concerning the team and some of the options that it may have, however realistic they may be. Sure Paul Pierce or Jermaine O'Neal may never end up in a Raps uniform...but the fact that the team is in a position to even speculate on these situations beats the last two offseasons bar-none.

FRANCHISE AND HOWLAND

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Comments

Great analysis of the possible "trade down" scenarios. Unfortunately, I'm not really sold on any of the scenarios looked at. The trade with Atlanta might have some possibilities and a blockbuster with Boston seems interesting. But for some reason, I'm not completely sold on either of these. If we're talking blockbuster, maybe those rumours about a Raps-Grizz trade for Gasol may pan out (that's just a wish) and I hope that the Raps-Pacers talk better just be some smoke. I still think picking Aldridge will be the best option in the long-run. I'm just not sure Colangelo wants to wait.

by Hans on Jun 12, 2006 8:21 AM EDT reply actions

most of those scenarios are ridiculous(Josh Childress has shown flashes and is a streaky player. He is extremely long and ..... be a great insurance policy for Morris Peterson and would definitely negate the loss of the 35th pick)... sooo a former top ten pick would negate the loss of a second rounder... no kidding - and zaza get real
I say trade the #1 to portland for the #4 and the option to switch picks next year - resulting in a lower salary and the hope that portland stays shitty and maybe thier luck changes and we get a better shot at the cream of next years stud filled crop ( oden- noah etc.) while still gettin who ever falls to us ( hopefully roy in this case)

the only hesitation id have at making the o'neal trade is his injury problems otherwise hes the type of veteran athlete who fits a position 5 that t dot needs unlike paul pierce who plays same position as cv of course if they thought aldridge was gonna turn out like JO then they should just draft the younger cheaper version - they make the trade if the potentials not there for LA

by a fan on Jun 12, 2006 8:54 AM EDT reply actions

One thing needs to be made clear here as we know that putting an article like this up is BOUND to be a lightening rod.........they are just ideas that work under the cap....some possible, others less likely.

So bring on the comments or EVEN BETTER gives us some scenarios of your own.....it's always fun to play armchair GM so let's see what you got.

In response to the top 10 pick and a second rounder.....the fact that a guy is taken in the top 10 is irrelevant. Just ask Hoffa, Luke Jackson, Mike Sweetney, Skita, Wagner, Dunleavy et al. I think I would take Gilbert over a number of guys taken in the top 10. It's value today that counts, not yesterday.

by Howland on Jun 12, 2006 9:18 AM EDT reply actions

i had the completely opposite reaction to the JO rumours. i think he would be an amazing fit in Toronto and anytime you have a chance to get an MVP-calibre player on your roster, i think you go for it.

would the Pacers be willing to take on all our bad contracts, like Alvin, Eric, and Matt (i think that's only around $14MM compared to the $18MM JO wold want) plus the number 1? i would guess that that's the only reason the Pacers do this so they can be a huge player in next year's free agent market. if they're asking for CV Smooth, it would a really tough decision. however if this is the deal, aren't we still cap-flexible with Jalen and Space Mountain's dough coming off the books?

i really think that JO and Bosh can co-exist. you can always play them in a high-low post format which would be very effective given that both of them can hit the 18-20 foot jumper. no other team could double us in the post and we all know how these two would destroy single coverage. this scenario was so effective when the Spurs won with Robinson and Duncan. even think back to Divac and Webber (not skill wise but how they played the high-low so effectively). and it worked really well with the original "twin towers" Ralph Sampson and Dream. with CV as a SF who can lick threes and post you up, we would be an opposing frontcourt's matchup nightmare!

the real reason i do this is because JO is one tough MOFO. say all you want about the Raps needing blocks, an interior presence, etc. what the Raps really need are some BALLS. besides Space Mountain, and occassionally MoPete, no one on this team (Bosh included) has ever given a hard foul to an opposing player. No one on this team has ever taken a slight personally and come back and used it as fodder for a huge game. JO is an intimidator and won't back down from anyone in the L. he won't let other teams get away with fouling Bosh hard or disrespecting us - and that is worth every cent of his enormous contract.

if we can get a guy with Oakley's toughness, Big Ben's defensive presence, and Webber's scoring ability, then i am all-in, baby!

by Hen on Jun 12, 2006 12:08 PM EDT reply actions

Wow there are alot of rumours out there. It is weird, some days I wake up and think the raptors should take Aldridge. Other days I wake up I think they should take Bargani. Other days I wake up and hope they trade the pick..and still take Bargani.

One of the best things with the raptors trading down is the fact that anyone in the top 6 a (and a few other players later down) can really help the team. That is the advantage of having no consensus #1 pick.

I also like the runoured Gasol senarios. WHy would the grizz do this trade? well I do not think that they would. But Gasol could play center, and does have the back to the basket game.

Ultimatly I think the raptors will keep the pick becuase no one wants the #1 that badly. ANd today I think they should take Bargini...tomorrow it will be aldridge :)

by scott on Jun 12, 2006 1:02 PM EDT reply actions

I agree it's fun to play with different scenarios. How about #1 and #56 or #35 to Portland for #4, #30 & #31. Do you think we could parlay #30 & #31 for Magloire? Do you think Denver would do a sign and trade Nene for James (assuming he'd also agree to a sign and trade) plus #30? That way we get a good prospect at #4 and some potential to trade for veteran help in the middle and we've still got cap space to address the PG. The way I look at it the Raps have three major assets this year - #1 pick; cap space; sign and trade with James; and a few lesser assets; to parlay into three solid additions to the line up - whoever they are,w/o trading CB/CV/MP.

by Ian on Jun 12, 2006 1:21 PM EDT reply actions

For the GS deal I would rather get Monta Ellis than Andris Biedrins. I feel that Ellis could develop into one of the premier combo-guards in the NBA. With him playing the point, J-rich at the 2, CV and Bosh at the forwards, and Shelden at Center, this could be a very good team.

by Matt on Jun 12, 2006 1:26 PM EDT reply actions

I don't see CV in any of these speculative deals, and I am sensing that he could very well be involved. It's a great post, but perhaps written by hopeful Raptors fans as most of these skew in a homer's favour. For instance, why would ATL trade away it's 5th pick, an improving C that offers pretty good value and a young swingman who is already one of their better defenders for a shaky first pick, an even shakier 35th and a couple of sketchy bench players? The Boston trade is the kind that could get Ainge chased out of Beantown. Same goes for the GS trade. Biedrins is not just some throw in. This kid could start next year.

I appreciate the work that goes into dreaming up plausible trade scenarios, and I don't really have the interest in working out the financial logistics so I won't suggest any of my own. But I do think that, while the top pick has value, the Raps will have to give up more than that and some bench warmers to get an elite player like a Gasol, JRich or Pierce. Great post guys.

by Josh on Jun 12, 2006 1:53 PM EDT reply actions

just another thought with the Gasol rumblings. I think most people have agreed that giving up CVSmooth and the #1 for Gasol is too much. What about CVSmooth and #1 for Gasol and Battier? We would probably have to add in Mo-Pete and a bunch of other salaries to match.

by scott on Jun 12, 2006 3:41 PM EDT reply actions

Scott, I was thinking the same thing. If we are going to give up CV, I want a 3 coming back and I think Battier would fit in really well. However, in no way would I give up Mo Pete to balance salaries...the guy is a very valuable member of the team. He won't ever be a star player, but like Battier, is the kind of guy you need on your team if you expect to win.

by spanky on Jun 12, 2006 4:09 PM EDT reply actions

I disagree with Josh that MoPete is "some bench warmer." I think he is a true professional and could be on the NBA's 1st all defensive team in the near future. And just look at his numbers since Jalen got gobbled up by Isaiah.

If we are throwing out crazy draft/trade scenarios and actually pondering JO on a team with CB4 why not consider KG? I have no desire to figure out the actual salary cap complications but if you are considering acquiring JO then why not go for the disgruntled KG and offer the same package to acquire him? You know that he wants to win. And they will both destroy your cap space.

If Charlotte bites on the aforementioned scenario then I am down. The other options just seem stale. AI is an interesting thought, but the same division thing and AI moving to Canada just makes the practicality of this trade hard to wrap your mind around.

The chances of this team being a contender next year are slim. Colangelo is a smart man and he realizes that patchwork deals are not in this teamsâ€™ interest and that making a splash this year should not come at the expense of next summer.

by Rookie GM on Jun 12, 2006 4:15 PM EDT reply actions

I do like the idea of a trade with Portland or Atlanta and if BC is stuck on getting Bargnani then the rumored trade down to Charlotte would be amazing (save quite a few dollars in salary AND get Knight - sweet deal).

The Raps have a whack of cap room as well so the road is wide, wide open in terms of what BC can do. He COULD actually move up into the 15-20 range using the 35, 56 and cap space.

Sky is the limit.

by YKOil on Jun 12, 2006 4:20 PM EDT reply actions

The Gasol rumours are intriguing but I just can't see Jerry West dealing him. And I'd hardly compare JO to David Robinson in terms of the twin towers, David Robinson was a true center, one of the last in what appears to be a dying breed...

Deal the first pick for Portland's 30th this year and first pick next year and take a shot at Oden...

by PEI loves the Raptors on Jun 12, 2006 5:03 PM EDT reply actions

Someone I'd like to see the Raps ask about is Richard Jefferson. He's the perfect fit for us in terms of being a star-level but still complimentary player. He would be a perfect pairing beside Bosh as a second option. His contract is reasonable, and he's a solid defender.

Would New Jersey even consider an offer for him? What would it take? If I were Colangelo, I'd call the Nets and offer Charlie V. straight up for Jefferson and work from there. I realize this might be a long shot, but the Nets might be interested in getting the athletic and versatile 4 that's been so elusive to them since K-Mart. Plus, they'd save cap space and it would not be that hard to find a SF to play the 'Bruce Bowen' role that the Nets need. That, or Antoine Wright might be able to step up. Thoughts?

by JYD on Jun 12, 2006 5:56 PM EDT reply actions

wow jefferson would fit great...

what do you guys think of this...

#1 pick , Charlie V and Eric Williams to seattle for # 10 and Ray Allen

I dont care about a center and we can sign a PG free agent...if we have a lineup like this:

PG: Jay williams, Calderon, Denham Brown
SG: Ray Allen, Joey Graham
SF: Mo Pete, Matt Bonner
PF: Chris Bosh, Kris Jeffries
C: Pape Sow, whoever...

we make the playoffs 100%

by gabriel on Jun 12, 2006 7:04 PM EDT reply actions

I think we should package a deal for magloire like both 2nd rd picks

or 2nd rd pick and eric williams

by FANTASY_GM on Jun 12, 2006 9:36 PM EDT reply actions

The Ray Allen deal intrigues me...I think this is one Seattle maybe takes a hard look at...

Jefferson would be great at 3 but the Raps would have to be sure that CV won't work with Bosh before dealing him in either deal.

Who does everyone think the Raps should grab in the second round...Denham?

PS - Gabriel - Love how you put Kris Jefferies instead of Humpheries at PF ha ha...nice throwback.

by MacNeveeeeeeeeeeeee on Jun 12, 2006 10:08 PM EDT reply actions

please no Magloire. The guy is not good, the only reason people here like him is because he is canadian. Lets not mortgage the future for this sack of cr@p. Not to mention he is going to be a FA after the season.

by Matt on Jun 12, 2006 10:18 PM EDT reply actions

no, PEI...the JO comparison would hardly fit the "Twin Towers" of Duncan and Robinson because CB4 and JO would be much better. please recall that when TD arrived, Robinson was close to retirement and his production was severely on the decline. as for your true center argument, it just doesn't wash. outside of Shaq and Yao, there are no true centers in todays game. but a frontcourt of JO and Bosh would dominate in the more modern fluid game. as for trading the pick to Portland, that's a pretty big gamble you're taking. it's called a lottery for a reason, bro, and as we've seen, the worst teams don't usually get the top pick.

all this other talk of Ray, Jefferson, Gasol, whoever, just tires me out. the myopic perspectives of most Raptor fans in general are a reflection of the mediocrity that this franchise has wallowed in since its existence. two points: our rebounding sucked and our interior defence was even worse. that always translates to losses. so riddle me this, you geniuses out there that want these guys: how do any of these players other than JO address both issues?

by Hen on Jun 13, 2006 12:45 AM EDT reply actions

Now if this trade were to happen I would assume we would give up Alvin Williams and Eric Williams to bring in Jermaine to save some cap room to resign Pape Sow and sign some players in the offseaon.
Jermaines salary is $18,067,500 next season and is signed through the 09/10 season. Eric's salary is $4,296,000 and Alvin's is $6,800,000. The trade would look something like this

To Indiana -
Eric Williams $4,296,000
Alvin Williams $6,800,000
1st overall pick in 06 draft

Salary would be 11,296,000 all together

To Toronto -
Jermaine O'neal $18,067,500
2nd round pick
Cash Consideration

Due to Toronto being around 12 millions dollars under the cap they can afford this trade which would still leave them with around 5 millions to spend on a good PG and help rebuild the team.
Toronto's salary 06/07 - $37,635,060
NBA Salary - $49.5

If necessary Toronto would send Matt Bonner over also and bring in a Indiana second round pick or 2.

the 06'07 Toronto Raptors starting lineup would look like this-
C-Jermaine O'neal
PF-Chris Bosh
SF-Charlie Villanueva
SG-Morris Peterson
PG-Jose Calderon or signed player.

Now you can't tell me that isn't a playoff team.

by !~LIL Scrappy~! on Jun 13, 2006 7:43 AM EDT reply actions

Excellent analysis LIL Scrappy. With the financial breakdown I'd have to say I'd like this line up the best out of all the lineups I've seen in the past few days. JO brings toughness and rebounding, two of our biggest needs. No development, rebuilding crap needed.

by OneandDone on Jun 13, 2006 9:25 AM EDT reply actions

Wow. . . a lot of interesting trade scenarios. To complicate things even further, we've only been discussing two team deals, there have been a lot of multi-team trades that have taken place over the last couple of years. I'm not smart enough to come up with any possible ones for discussion, but we have to keep in mind the BC has A LOT more options than have even been mentioned here. If and when he makes a deal it will probably be something we might not have seen coming. Here's hoping BC's makes the right decisions.

by Chris on Jun 13, 2006 11:58 AM EDT reply actions

By the looks of various sites around the internet JO will not be comming ot Toronto anymore :(. Figures after I make a sweet trade scenario lol. It look though right now one of the HQ's scenario may happen.

to Toronto -
3rd overall pick
Brevin knight

To Charlotte -
1st overall pick
Alvin Williams

The only difference between the HQ's scenario and the rumour is Eric and Alvin Williams.

by !~LIL Scrappy~! on Jun 13, 2006 2:02 PM EDT reply actions

Yo Rookie GM: I was referring to Eric Williams and Pape Sow as bench warmers. I am aware that MoPete starts and is a tremendously improved player.

by Josh on Jun 13, 2006 2:04 PM EDT reply actions

Wow I have been loking through all the details of the Charlotte trade and if BC did pull this off he would look like a god.

To Toronto -
3rd overall pick in 06 draft
Brevin Knight - 4,400,000

To Charlotte -
1st overall pick
Alvin Williams - $6,800,000

Right after that trade we would have 2.4 million extra dollars to spend on free agency and draft picks.
Torontoâ€™s salary 06/07 - $37,635,060 - $2,400,000 = $35,235,060
NBA Salary - $49.5

That factor right there would make alot of people happy...but there is more. The reason the Bobcats want 1st overall pick is to guarantee they get Morrison first overall. Someone the Raptors probalby wouldn't take since they do not need many more shooters. Bosh has stated he wants a big guy and I am sure that would happen since we do need a big guy in the middle. That leaves us with our main choise Albridge and then we have Tyrus Thomas for big men. Now according to lost of sites Chicago really wants Thomas. Now if that was tru they would take him second which would leave us with Albridge at 3rd. So our team would look like this.

C-LaMarcus Albridge
PF-Chris Bosh
SF-Charlie Villanueva
SG-Morris Peterson
PG-Brevin Knight

Once we sign Albridge to his rookis contract which should be around 3 million we will still have around 11 million to spend on free agency and ect. So I say this would be one of our top choices for this seaons esecialy if these Garbosa rumours are true and he is going to chose between us and Phoenix. if we sign him we would still have enough to bring in a good big man to back Albridge up. maybe Joel Pryzbilla? He would probably come for a decent price and we would would have money left over to maybe bring in a new assistant coach to help training.

by !~LIL Scrappy~! on Jun 13, 2006 3:06 PM EDT reply actions

we would also have mike james to sign and trade.

i would be thrilled if charlotte did this deal although i am not optimistic

by jimmy on Jun 13, 2006 3:24 PM EDT reply actions

Mike James is going to opt out and I highly doubt BC will sign him but if he did. New York would probably take him for a future pick kinda like what they do for every thing. Not many teams would want him. The only teams that would want him are horrible teams. So if we bring in a good PG Idon't tihnk it's going to happen.

by !~LIL Scrappy~! on Jun 13, 2006 3:29 PM EDT reply actions

I see a lot of these posts are talking real dollar values and trying to estimate how much the Raps will save (spend) through the draft. So here are the projected rookie salaries for the 2006 Draft class:

1. $3,617,100
2. $3,236,600
3. $2,906,200
4. $2,606,200
5. $2,372,800...
10. $1,573,900...
20. $957,300...
30. $717,800

by Rookie GM on Jun 13, 2006 3:45 PM EDT reply actions

I could see the lakers potentially wanting Mika james.. in the triangle offence and with kobe demanding triple teams, he would get alot of open looks. Hed be great on that team. Personally i think a sign and trade fo r mihm could be good for us. and realistic for both teams.

by jimmy on Jun 13, 2006 3:55 PM EDT reply actions

Ya but Kobe wouldn't get the ball and no one wants an angry Kobe. Mike James would bring the ball up and go for an ISO. Kinda like this season. Mihm? you think we could only get Mihm. Even though sometimes Mike James hogs the ball he still is prety good for a team who need a good player... Maybe Portland. Mike James for Darius Miles. If we signed Mike James for around 6 million.

by !~LIL Scrappy~! on Jun 13, 2006 4:04 PM EDT reply actions

who the hell wants darius miles? and mihm would be a quality 20-25 minute centre who will bang and block shots. and phil jackson could control james. the triangle is a different system based on ball movement. and kobe demands the ball.

by jimmy on Jun 13, 2006 4:27 PM EDT reply actions

Interesting thread all around.

On the topic of James, I fear that he is a diminshing asset. With all of the lunatic things he has been saying of late, I suspect he is value is lowering to around the MLE range...in which case, teams will not need us to S&T him, they can sign him outright. We only have leverage if he is above that MLE level...not sure what teams would give him more?

If we could get Mihm for him, that would be huge value. I want no part of Miles.

by spanky on Jun 13, 2006 4:40 PM EDT reply actions

And Mihm is 100% available this summer

by jimmy on Jun 13, 2006 5:13 PM EDT reply actions

The Mike James sign and trade works because BC has a good relationship with James' agent and because James can earn more that way. Denver could use a PG with James' ability and Nene could be available the other way - a young 5 who can run with CB & CV.

by Ian on Jun 13, 2006 5:30 PM EDT reply actions

Mihm barely played last year, I don't remeber if he was injured or not. But her didn't behind Kwame Brown. One of the biggest first overall picks ever. I would pefer Darius then Chris. That's just what I would do.

by !~LIL Scrappy~! on Jun 13, 2006 5:55 PM EDT reply actions

Ian, you are right that James would prefer a S&T if it meant that he could get more than the MLE. My point was that there not be any teams willing to offer such a headcase more than that...who knows.

LilScrappy, yes Mihm was injured for much of last year which is why Brown surpassed him on the depth chart. When he did play, Mihm was a very serviceable centre. You are of course welcome to your opinion on Miles. But I see him as a guy with a terrible contract, someone who has caused problems and undeperformed everywhere he's been, and someone who plays a position we are already loaded at (CV and Joey). Aside from adding a few highlight reel dunks, not sure what he would contribute to the team.

More thoughts for trading down. Would anyone give up CV + #1 (or, ideally, the #3 if that Charlotte trade goes down) for the #5 + Marvin Williams? I love CV's game, but I can't help but think we need more of a natural three if we are ever going to be anything but a lousy defensive team...I still think Williams will emerge as a difference maker on both ends of the floor. For Atlanta, stocked at the SF, CV would give them a legit 4...plus a better pick.

by spanky on Jun 13, 2006 6:53 PM EDT reply actions

I think the raps should get any piece they could get in a trade with Detroit which will reportedly bring some chances to its team) One player i would love to see in a toronto uniform (in addition to ray allen) is Antonio Mcdeyss

by gabriel on Jun 13, 2006 7:59 PM EDT reply actions

I like the Charlotte deal receive a pg and dump salary and get the player we want all the same time hopefully aldridge we be laughing
Magloire isnt washed up he can pull double doubles in toronto
The cost would be cheap and is well worth it but id be happy if they wait 2 years for free agency

by FANTASY_GM on Jun 13, 2006 8:55 PM EDT reply actions

I was just checking out realgm and by the looks of things the lakers are trying to bring in Brandon Roy for there guard for the triangle offense. They also have Smush parker so I couldn't see us bringing Mihm in for Mike James.

by !~LIL Scrappy~! on Jun 14, 2006 2:14 PM EDT reply actions

How about Wade playing for the Raps? Many reasons why it won't happen, but...

http://yglesias.typepad.com/matthew/2006/06/wades_extension.html

We need more thinking along these lines here. Once again I agree with HQ that it is a fun time to be a basketball fan in Toronto!

by Rookie GM on Jun 14, 2006 2:33 PM EDT reply actions

Chris Mihm had a nice half season for the Lakers last year, but I'm far from sold. He doesn't make the Raptors significantly better at the 5...we'd still need to upgrade that spot to contend for a championship.

The Milwaukee deal scares me because both guys are Free Agents at the end of next season. I'm also not sure how good Macgloire is at this point. He's not very quick and he's very limited offensively. I don't think he's worth the $8 million that he's making now...let alone what he'll be asking for next year.

If he could pull off the proposed Charlotte Deal (our #1 for Knight and the #3) Colangelo would be a genius. If I were Charlotte though, I'd want a little more.

The Atlanta trade that Spanky proposed has alot more potential. I like Marvin Williams too, and we could still get something we need at the #5 pick. Atlanta needs a natural 4 (which Villanueva is...he can't defend 3's), and would love to get the first pick. Because Charlie V had a better year than Williams last year, we might be able to get a little more off of them (their 2nd round pick, 33rd overall).

Now, back to the Indiana deal for O'neal (yeah I know it's been shot down...but humour me). Here's a deal that I think works better for both teams

To Toronto:
J. O'neal and the #17 pick

To Indiana:
Mike James (in a S & T)
Either the #1 pick or Charlie V.
And either Eric or Alvin Williams

It works for Indiana because they get a scorer in James that they desperately need and they get a guy they can build around in either Charlie V or the #1. They would stay competitive and with the new found cap space, would have a brighter prospect for the future than they had before the deal.

We'd get the defense and rebounding that we so desperately need, and we'd still have the #17 pick to take a bench guy. Alvin or Eric would be thrown in so that we still have a little cap flexibility (probably around $5 million) to address other needs.

Of course, for this to work, Indiana would have to be ok with giving James more than the MLE, and James would have to want to go to Indiana (which isn't exactly Houston). This is one of the few places where James could go and be the go-to-guy....which appears to be quite important to him.

J.R. Smith is available....I'm not sure what it would take, but I doubt it'd be much. He'd be a good scoring option off of the bench.

by Jeff on Jun 14, 2006 3:03 PM EDT reply actions

Ya BC should add like a second rounder in on the Charlotte trade...but if BC made a little white lie and said he wanted to take Morrison first overall I think Charlotte might just do the trade. The J-O trade would be a rip of for us becasue first off he is really expensive and second off we don't evne get a pick if we got a pick back maybe but not all that just for JO.

by !~LIL Scrappy~! on Jun 14, 2006 4:16 PM EDT reply actions

Wade... c'mon now Rookie GM, why stop there, why not trade for LeBron and Dirk, while we're at it.

by Chris on Jun 14, 2006 7:29 PM EDT reply actions

I have an idea...sign and trade mike james + eric williams (who makes his home in detroit) and #55 for Richard Jefferson. NJ gets a good solid backup point guard that can score 3's ...something it lacks...Eric can finish his playing days at home next to his son and he can provide solid D and the small forward spot.

We get a bonafied Small Forward starter and that way RJ CV# and Mopete can split SG and SF minutes 3 way...

What do you guys think?

by gabriel on Jun 14, 2006 8:17 PM EDT reply actions

and then rod thorn will unmask and show himself to be isiah thomas

by jimmy on Jun 14, 2006 9:08 PM EDT reply actions

C'mon Chris, did you read the entire 3.5 lines I wrote? Or did you just see the name Wade and start shaking uncontrollably as to the ridiculousness of this idea and then you wrote your completely ridiculous reply?

I did say that there are many reasons why it won't happen. I did provide a link however, yes not a reliable source but a coherent logical train of thinking, you on the other hand just toss out ridiculous ideas with NO links. And how can you compare LeBron & Dirks situations to Wades?

You also never clicked on the link. I feel as if i should explain the link to you, but you are obviously hopeless and too pessimistic to contribute to a forum about "SCENERIOS" not about facts.

Given the facts about both organizations, if I was Wade I would be getting out of Miami and quick. Shaq does not have many years left of top caliber ball. They have too many bad contracts. If he wanted to be on a dominant potential dynasty team that could beat LeBron in his prime, CB4 and the Raps could make that happen with him for years to come.

It is inevitable that Wade will sign a huge extension in Miami, then he will demand a trade in a few years when he has too much money and realizes that he actually cares about winning (for examples see: Shaq, T-Mac & now KG). If he and his agent actually sat down and thought this through they could limit the entire ordeal and act now.

by Rookie GM on Jun 15, 2006 12:07 PM EDT reply actions